America - The Official Thread

[Swift]

That's very considerate of you.

How about if someone wanted to fly the confederate flag?

Peole do, all the time. I think they should be able to. Yeah, I find it rather offensive and stupid. But oh well. That's what is part of being in America. There is no right "not to be offended" So I tolerate it because they should be able to fly that stupid flag.

I however believe that living in the past traps you there. So, I'm going to bw waving Old Glory myself!

 

[Danoff]

I don't know if you read my previous posts but, I have already cited the British Empire as an example of oppression and exploitation...

Where is Britain again?

And where are American products made, in the USA? Or is it more likely to be Thailand, Vietnam or some other under-developed country?

Thailand you say? I have no idea where that is being a stupid American. Is that in this "Europe" you've been talking about?

 

[Carl.]

You don't like what you think your flag stands for. You thinks it's oppressive and racist so you're ashamed of it. Rather sad actually.

What I stand for goes before, and is not necessarily the same what my country flag stands for. I won't be ashamed of something I didn't do because I happened to live in a country X, and I won't take criticism of it as a personnal attack.

Patriotism doesn't mean noble, (see 30s Germany), it only imply that you support what(ever) your country is doing. Historically, it has been used over and over by governments to make their population supports a wide ranges of aggressions.

I found this to be rather sad.

Patriotism should come with a "use with caution" sticker.

 

[Swift]

What I stand for goes before, and is not necessarily the same what my country flag stands for. I won't be ashamed of something I didn't do because I happened to live in a country X, and I won't take criticism of it as a personnal attack.

Patriotism doesn't mean noble, (see 30s Germany), it only imply that you support what(ever) your country is doing. Historically, it has been used over and over by governments to make their population supports a wide ranges of aggressions.

I found this to be rather sad.

Patriotism should come with a "use with caution" sticker.

Hmm...not bad.

I have a very deep love for my country and I'm also very non-PC. I speak my mind straight. So I guess that would make me patriotic in the old school sense of the word.

Getting back to the flag thing, you really think that our contries shouldn't fly our flags?

 

[Danoff]

That's very considerate of you.

How about if someone wanted to fly the confederate flag?

People are and should be free to fly whatever flag they want - be it confederate or nazi.

By the way, the confederate flag is not a symbol of slavery. It's a symbol of freedom, the freedom of a misguided group of people who thought that it was oppressive for part of their country to change their way of life.

People who fly confederate flags don't do so out of racism (at least not most of them) they do it out of a sense of pride in their heritage, that their ancestors stood up for what they believed in (even though they were wrong) and out of pride for their state and its history.

 

[Carl.]

Hmm...not bad.

I have a very deep love for my country and I'm also very non-PC. I speak my mind straight. So I guess that would make me patriotic in the old school sense of the word.

Getting back to the flag thing, you really think that our contries shouldn't fly our flags?

I see no problem with flags.

As long as it it doesn't become blind patriotism, I don't see any problems with national pride too, though I don't really feel it. I'd say m glad or happy, (more than proud) to live in my Country, but I didn't do or accomplish anything yet to feel any sort of national pride. I'll defend what I think we're doing right, and I'll despise what I think we're doing wrong, but no more than any other country's actions.

 

[Swift]

I see no problem with flags.

As long as it it doesn't become blind patriotism, I don't see any problems with national pride too, though I don't really feel it. I'd say m glad or happy, (more than proud) to live in my Country, but I didn't do or accomplish anything yet to feel any sort of national pride. I'll defend what I think we're doing right, and I'll despise what I think we're doing wrong, but no more than any other country's actions.

That was a great explaination of the difference between patriotism and national pride. Nicely said.

By the way, the confederate flag is not a symbol of slavery. It's a symbol of freedom, the freedom of a misguided group of people who thought that it was oppressive for part of their country to change their way of life.

People who fly confederate flags don't do so out of racism (at least not most of them) they do it out of a sense of pride in their heritage, that their ancestors stood up for what they believed in (even though they were wrong) and out of pride for their state and its history.

Excellent point. My challenge is all I can think of when I see that is the movie Roots.

 

[ledhed]

Because they represent oppression.

not to me. To me it represents freedom .

 

[JacktheHat]

not to me. To me it represents freedom .

But it doesn't represent freedom to everyone...

 

[JacktheHat]

Where is Britain again?



Thailand you say? I have no idea where that is being a stupid American. Is that in this "Europe" you've been talking about?

I'm not really sure what your point is...

Are you?

 

[Danoff]

I'm not really sure what your point is...

Are you?

No. I can't think at all what my point is. It must be because I'm a STUPID AMERICAN !!!!

I live in England, which is part of Great Britain, which in turn is part of a continent called Europe.

What of it?

 

[Tacet_Blue]

I don't know if you read my previous posts but, I have already cited the British Empire as an example of oppression and exploitation...

And where are American products made, in the USA? Or is it more likely to be Thailand, Vietnam or some other under-developed country?

I wasn't going to add anymore to this thread because I find myself agreeing with Swift here, and I enjoy arguing with him elsewhere, so it might confuse me.

JacktheHat, I know what you are saying about the British Empire and our colonial days but the flag was more like this:

Yes the union jack is in there, but you can see its imperial design and emblems from the various countries we used to oppress. The star of India for example in the centre.
The union jack in its current form celebrates the Union of former warring factions, the welsh, the Irish and the Scottish, that is what it means to me...peace.

I thought the same could be said about the Stars and Stripes...its final form was commissioned in 1818 and by then Vermont, Connecticut and Massachusetts had already abolished slavery. I thought that again it represented a new time of peace and unity, the cooperation of the states and their independence from the colonial oppressor..oops that would be us

Edit:
It is actually the George Cross that causes most offence in Britain. Some councils willnot let it be displayed on public buildings on St Georges day, it is associated with football hooligans, National Front, and of course the Knights Templar.
Personally I think some of this is PC gone mad, Europe especially Brussels is continually medling with our laws...I've got no idea who it was that wanted to change the OBE, to order of British excellence or something instead of Order of the British Empire...it's like you can't say empire anymore

 

[Swift]

I wasn't going to add anymore to this thread because I find myself agreeing with Swift here, and I enjoy arguing with him elsewhere, so it might confuse me.

JacktheHat, I know what you are saying about the British Empire and our colonial days but the flag was more like this:

Yes the union jack is in there, but you can see its imperial design and emblems from the various countries we used to oppress. The star of India for example in the centre.
The union jack in its current form celebrates the Union of former warring factions, the welsh, the Irish and the Scottish, that is what it means to me...peace.

I thought the same could be said about the Stars and Stripes...its final form was commissioned in 1818 and by then Vermont, Connecticut and Massachusetts had already abolished slavery. I thought that again it represented a new time of peace and unity, the cooperation of the states and their independence from the colonial oppressor..oops that would be us

Nicely said. 👍

 

[ledhed]

Yes its not like you should take pride , in a little Island nation actually fairly much ruling the world for a time , now is it ?

 

[JacktheHat]

I wasn't going to add anymore to this thread because I find myself agreeing with Swift here, and I enjoy arguing with him elsewhere, so it might confuse me.

JacktheHat, I know what you are saying about the British Empire and our colonial days but the flag was more like this:

Yes the union jack is in there, but you can see its imperial design and emblems from the various countries we used to oppress. The star of India for example in the centre.
The union jack in its current form celebrates the Union of former warring factions, the welsh, the Irish and the Scottish, that is what it means to me...peace.

I thought the same could be said about the Stars and Stripes...its final form was commissioned in 1818 and by then Vermont, Connecticut and Massachusetts had already abolished slavery. I thought that again it represented a new time of peace and unity, the cooperation of the states and their independence from the colonial oppressor..oops that would be us

Edit:
It is actually the George Cross that causes most offence in Britain. Some councils willnot let it be displayed on public buildings on St Georges day, it is associated with football hooligans, National Front, and of course the Knights Templar.
Personally I think some of this is PC gone mad, Europe especially Brussels is continually medling with our laws...I've got no idea who it was that wanted to change the OBE, to order of British excellence or something instead of Order of the British Empire...it's like you can't say empire anymore

What about the BNP?

 

[JacktheHat]

Yes its not like you should take pride , in a little Island nation actually fairly much ruling the world for a time , now is it ?

No, not when we did it through the means of slavery, piracy, theft and aggression.

 

[Swift]

No, not when we did it through the means of slavery, piracy, theft and aggression.

And the other super power countries did it how?

 

[JacktheHat]

And the other super power countries did it how?

When did I condone their actions? You asked why people would get offended by the American or British flag and I provided you with what I think is a valid answer.

Try to keep up.

 

[Swift]

That's not what I was addressing. I know you didn't condone their actions. My point is that is what all the majors powers of the world have done at some point. It doesn't make it right, just fact.

Oh, and if someone gets offended by me showing the American flag in America, then Get Out!

 

[JacktheHat]

That's not what I was addressing. I know you didn't condone their actions. My point is that is what all the majors powers of the world have done at some point. It doesn't make it right, just fact.

And?

Oh, and if someone gets offended by me showing the American flag in America, then Get Out!

Very Christian of you.

 

[Swift]

And?



Very Christian of you.

It certainly is. Look, I will be tolerant of other peoples lifestyles, religion and choices even though I will disagree and fight against those ideals. I recognize the american citizens and human rights to such things. However, If you don't want to see an American flag, WHY are you in America. It's very simple. If you don't like it, it's a free country, split! We shouldn't have to coddle to every singe possible group that may get offended by the American flag but is more then happy to work in America and enjoy it's freedoms provided by a military and government that "offends" them.

If it's that bad, be like Johnny Depp and move to France. At least he had the guts to back up what he believed in.

 

[Danoff]

When did I condone their actions? You asked why people would get offended by the American or British flag and I provided you with what I think is a valid answer.

Who gives a rat's a*s if "people" get offended by American flags? I get offended when fat people show too much skin in public. I get offended when people accuse my president of being an evil murderous dictator. I get offended when the Today show shows the same damn truck hitting a police officer like 60 billion times and then does a boring interview with the same police officer.

Nobody gives a rat's a*s that I get offended either.

 

[Swift]

Who gives a rat's a*s if "people" get offended by American flags? I get offended when fat people show too much skin in public. I get offended when people accuse my president of being an evil murderous dictator. I get offended when the Today show shows the same damn truck hitting a police officer like 60 billion times and then does a boring interview with the same police officer.

Nobody gives a rat's a*s that I get offended either.

Wow, I find myself agree 100% with danoff again...I think hell just froze over...

 

[Danoff]

Wow, I find myself agree 100% with danoff again...I think hell just froze over...

I'm a reasonable guy.

 

[Swift]

Jack, I just learned that if you display the Union Jack in Britain you're considered a racist. That's just about the most ignorant thing I've heard in a long time. I'm very surprised that a culture would come to that point.

 

[JacktheHat]

Who gives a rat's a*s if "people" get offended by American flags? I get offended when fat people show too much skin in public.

And who's fault it is that people are morbidly obese? In Africa, Asia, Central and South America people only get fat. Morbid obesity has been forced on the world by... America and is now spreading to Europe and Australasia

 

[JacktheHat]

It certainly is. Look, I will be tolerant of other peoples lifestyles, religion and choices even though I will disagree and fight against those ideals. I recognize the american citizens and human rights to such things. However, If you don't want to see an American flag, WHY are you in America. It's very simple. If you don't like it, it's a free country, split! We shouldn't have to coddle to every singe possible group that may get offended by the American flag but is more then happy to work in America and enjoy it's freedoms provided by a military and government that "offends" them.

If it's that bad, be like Johnny Depp and move to France. At least he had the guts to back up what he believed in.

And the economic freedom to do it too.

If only life was that simple for everyone. Maybe if America gave back the money and resources it has taken from other countries the inhabitants of those, afore mentioned, countries wouldn't feel the need to migrate to America?

If you want others to respect you then you should start by respecting others...

 

[JacktheHat]

Jack, I just learned that if you display the Union Jack in Britain you're considered a racist. That's just about the most ignorant thing I've heard in a long time. I'm very surprised that a culture would come to that point.

Actually, if you were aware of world history you wouldn't be very suprised at all. What image does the 'hammer and sickle' conjure up in the mind of most Americans, what about the 'rising sun'?

In fact, I think your statement is one of the most ignorant things I've read in a long time.



Just so that you understand what you are discussing:

ig·no·rant
adj.

1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.

 

[ledhed]

Couldnt you fit all the tripe in one post ?

 

[Swift]

Thanks Ledhed

I DO respect others. I just fine it absurd to be offended by a flag of a country that you reside in. If someone hates it that much they need to just get out. Go to Canada or Mexico.

As far as the ignorant thing, well, every country on this planet has either exploited their own people or exploited some other countries people. I'm not saying it's right(for the second time) I'm simply saying that is the way things are and it's not a reason to be ashamed, dislike your flag or not show patriotism to your country.

Now, onto the subject of America stealing everything from other countries, maybe, that's true. Maybe. However, there are not many other countries in the world where you can start with nothing, work hard and be successful. That's why people move to America.

I'm really sorry you have such a pessimistic view of America and Britain. But dang, let it go. I could whine all day long about how slavery ruined my life. But that would be living in the past, something you seem to enjoy Jack.