UKMikey
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- UKMikeyA
America - The Official Thread
- Thread starter ///M-Spec
- 39,194 comments
- 1,746,171 views
- 3,745
- Elizabeth, New Jersey, USA
Build Back Better is officially dead, as Manchin announces he cannot support the bill.
www.nytimes.com
Seriously, what on Earth are the Democrats supposed to run on for the midterms? There's only so much they can milk the already milquetoast bipartisan infrastructure bill.
Manchin Pulls Support From Biden’s Social Policy Bill, Imperiling Its Passage (Published 2021)
The West Virginia senator’s comments dealt a potentially fatal blow to the centerpiece of the president’s domestic agenda, and drew a broadside from the White House.
Seriously, what on Earth are the Democrats supposed to run on for the midterms? There's only so much they can milk the already milquetoast bipartisan infrastructure bill.
- 40,797
You mean trying to ramrod a bill (that you did such a bad job selling to the people that the only time anyone talks about it is when a new set of negatives come up) down everyone's throat as if you have a 60 seat majority, up to and including holding the significantly more popular bill hostage for so long and accomplishing nothing in the process that it caused you to lose major elections, actually isn't a winning strategy in itself when you only have 50 seats?
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- 3,745
- Elizabeth, New Jersey, USA
- 6,425
- KCCO
Democrats Are Damned Either Way In Debate Over SALT
The wonky tax provision, SALT, would disproportionately benefit wealthy people in blue states
This is so comical…
- 40,797
I'm saying the Democrats wasted over half a year on this humongous mess of a bill that they knew was toxic enough that they had to hold the infrastructure bill hostage until they got what they wanted out of it; then even managed to screw that up by not only unlinking it anyway but waiting so long to do it that they didn't even get anything out of the infrastructure bill politically. The only thing people ever heard about Build Back Better, especially after I assume the media smelled the blood in the water when the party leadership got rid of their only leverage on passing it, was that it had nothing to do with what people are worried about now (spiraling inflation and COVID), how much it was going to cost, that cornerstone pieces of it were almost certainly going to lead to trade wars if they weren't deemed illegal outright, how much stuff was being stripped from it to make it "affordable" and all the various bridges to nowhere and other types of grift that was buried in it.
If there is as much of a bloodbath in the midterms as Democrats are expecting, it is their own incompetence that will lead to it. They were the ones who wanted to push through everything and the kitchen sink into one monolithic bill that they never had the votes to pass but decided to solve that problem by publicly infighting with each other. They were the ones who kept making public statements acting like they had a supermajority in both houses. They were the ones who did barely anything to get out ahead of bombshells that kept coming out about the bill, like the CBO cost estimates wildly differing from Biden's claims or handing tens millions of dollars directly to the labor union that is in the news every few months because another of the leadership went to federal prison. They were the ones who managed to overplay their hand so badly that Republicans basically just had to wait until it self-destructed without having to do anything beyond peel off some votes to make sure the infrastructure bill passed. So desperate were they to force everything they could into this one bill so they could pass it with no Republican support that all they've actually accomplished was piss people off for 9 months; when they could have tried passing smaller targeted pieces of legislation that they could actually explain and have a central theme to sell to voters.
If there is as much of a bloodbath in the midterms as Democrats are expecting, it is their own incompetence that will lead to it. They were the ones who wanted to push through everything and the kitchen sink into one monolithic bill that they never had the votes to pass but decided to solve that problem by publicly infighting with each other. They were the ones who kept making public statements acting like they had a supermajority in both houses. They were the ones who did barely anything to get out ahead of bombshells that kept coming out about the bill, like the CBO cost estimates wildly differing from Biden's claims or handing tens millions of dollars directly to the labor union that is in the news every few months because another of the leadership went to federal prison. They were the ones who managed to overplay their hand so badly that Republicans basically just had to wait until it self-destructed without having to do anything beyond peel off some votes to make sure the infrastructure bill passed. So desperate were they to force everything they could into this one bill so they could pass it with no Republican support that all they've actually accomplished was piss people off for 9 months; when they could have tried passing smaller targeted pieces of legislation that they could actually explain and have a central theme to sell to voters.
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- 6,425
- KCCO
- 29,785
- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
How it started:
www.businessinsider.com
How it's going:
www.forbes.com
Peak Trumpism.
The GOP agreed to pay $1.6 million of Trump's legal fees from NY investigations into his private businesses, reports say
The RNC in a statement echoed Trump's claim that the investigations are politically motivated, and defended contributing to his legal bills.
www.businessinsider.com
How it's going:
Trump Sues New York AG Letitia James Over Business Investigation
James is reportedly seeking a deposition from Trump as part of the probe.
www.forbes.com
Peak Trumpism.
- 20,906
- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
Utterly baffled how investigating someone for potential crimes is worthy of a lawsuit. Doesn't that almost assure us that he's guilty of SOMETHING?How it started:
The GOP agreed to pay $1.6 million of Trump's legal fees from NY investigations into his private businesses, reports say
The RNC in a statement echoed Trump's claim that the investigations are politically motivated, and defended contributing to his legal bills.
How it's going:
Trump Sues New York AG Letitia James Over Business Investigation
James is reportedly seeking a deposition from Trump as part of the probe.
Peak Trumpism.
- 35,320
- Downtown North Dakota
- Cy-Fi
MOST people that are under investigation think "knock yourself out, there's nothing to find anyway".
HE is not most people so even the hint of sniffing around make him throw around a threat of suing. Even if he knows he has no case or that he can't win anyway, he's still stopping the investigation, even if it's only temporarily, until that ruling is in.
- 29,785
- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
So I was 97% certain there was no legitimate mechanism for relief here, but it's nice to have that belief backed up by someone who would actually know and also how that absence is codified (because it would surely have to be).
The Anti-Injunction Act prohibits federal courts' attempts to enjoin ongoing state court proceedings and Younger abstention is judicial doctrine established in Supreme Court jurisprudence (Younger v. Harris, 1971) that mandates federal courts refrain from hearing constitutional challenges to state court proceedings when federal action would be regarded as an improper intrusion on the state’s authority to enforce its laws. Both of these are core to federalism.
Of course none of this actually matters because the aim is to cultivate a distrust in the legal system that benefits them, and the GOP has likely [accurately] calculated that the short term result is a net gain through fundraising because the idiot base is going to give them money to fight on behalf of their bronzer daddy. In the extended term, good money is on acts of violence perpetrated against those in the legal system, and of course the GOP is okay with that because it chills action that goes against their interests.
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- 20,906
- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
The sad thing is even if he's guilty, neither Trump, GOP, Fox or anyone on his side will concede he did anything wrong and he will never face any consequences for any of his actions. He took advantage of a manipulative party and molded it into his party. If the Republicans do not win the election in 2024, there very likely will be carnage.
- 29,785
- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
They couldn't even if they had any desire to. There's no way it doesn't hurt them.
Maybe this is due to ambiguity, maybe it's due to it being overly sensational, but I'm not expecting carnage. That isn't to say I think they're above it, mind. I absolutely believe they have retake-by-force wet dreams. I just think they're mostly pussies and they're actually below it.
I'm predicting intensity maybe comparable to riots that broke out during social justice protests, which reasonable people understand were limited and localized but they made for entertaining programming for the all-hours news networks.
However, while I'm predicting them to be comparable in intensity to those riots, I think they could very easily be more strategically placed in the way that legitimate [if stupid] protest on the Capitol Mall during a joint session of Congress turned into a breach of the Capitol itself that led to the evacuation of the congressional delegation.
I think it's probably more important that certain people be protected, because the vitriol directed at Pence came so soon after the ****tards were told he was part of the opposition and I can totally see groups targeting those at whom their vitriol has been directed for years.
...
I really can't believe there was a time when I was so naive that I expected the GOP's attachment to Trump to be short-lived, but then I didn't grasp just how broken the worthless mother****ers are.
I hate what they've done to my country.
- 3,745
- Elizabeth, New Jersey, USA
I have been thinking about the whole Manchin debacle quite a lot over the last two days, and I've come to this simple conclusion: Manchin being the sole obstructionist, killing Biden's Build Back Better initiative is the best possible way in which the Build Back Better initiative could fail for the Democrats. Too, the Democratic establishment knew that BBB had no chance of ever passing, so pinning it on Manchin is the solution that will cause the least amount of damage.
As others have mentioned before, the Democratic party has a serious messaging problem. Way worse than the GOP. Other than Biden going back on many of his promises- particularly worrisome in the way that the said purpose of the modern Democratic party is to reassure to its base that government-based solutions can indeed improve one's quality of life, the other main thing impeding the Dems' 2022 and 2024 chances is this messaging issue. The Democratic base is becoming more and more progressive and cautious of money in politics with time, and moderate democrats' share of the party is dying. Literally, as the largest faction of "moderate dems" are the elderly, and many former moderates have become more progressive in their politics, or switched sides altogether. Despite younger and more progressive Dems becoming less patient with money in politics/corruption, only a select few Democrats- the Squad, Bernie (not truly a Dem, but ya know), and a couple others, make "getting money out of politics" a hallmark of their campaign. The Democratic Party and it's higher-ups tend to be quite silent when it comes to the role of plutocrats and dark money in the party. Partly because any major political party needs to secure wealthy donors to remain viable, and an openly "anti-rich" party would fail in that mission, while also because many "establishment" Dems are just as corrupted by these influences as the Republican establishment. The Democratic Party itself cannot seem to meaningfully satisfy it's growing anti-corporate fervor while also not scare off its Koch and Adelson types.
And this is how it relates to Manchin, BBB, and it's failure. In all likelihood, there are numerous senate Democrats who want to see the bill fail. While Sinema (obviously), it is likely that some of the more conservative Dems like Coons, Tester, Hassan, Shaheen, and possibly even Feinstein, would have serious misgivings with BBB. They already were against some of Biden's more progressive initiatives like the $15 min. wage, and are notorious for accepting corporate contributions, so it is likely. After all, it is a significantly more progressive bill than the bipartisan infrastructure deal, and less palatable towards big business. Therefore, putting all of the blame on one obstructionist Democrat- a dinosaur from the most Republican state in America who is already reviled by most Dems, is not only far easier, but safer for the party, than bringing the vote to the floor, where push comes to shove for the rest of the moderate Dems. Bernie had remarked how despite BBB's essential "death", it should still be brought to the floor. This would be done not only to publicly censure Manchin, forcing him to explain to the 73% of West Virginians who expressed support for BBB why he voted "Nay" for provisions like lower insulin/drug prices, child tax credit, Medicare's coverage of eyeglasses/dental, and even a research fund devoted to coal miners afflicted with black lung of all things, but also to reveal other Democrats who could also vote no. Having more than just one or two Democrats who are unequivocally against Biden's agenda- which is just slightly to the left of Obama's ultimately, would be an absolute nightmare for the party and it's messaging. Imagine if it was like the early Obama era and the senate was 57-43 Dem. If big business is really that against BBB, it is possible that seven Joe Manchins would emerge and obstruct the bill, causing it to still fail. My point is simple: Democrats can portray Manchin as the rare exception to the party- which in many ways, he is- to evade blame for their horrible messaging a priori, while also shielding the moderate Dems who could vote no from any scrutiny. The anger, hatred, and impatience would ideally be directed at Manchin, not Biden and the Democratic party.
As others have mentioned before, the Democratic party has a serious messaging problem. Way worse than the GOP. Other than Biden going back on many of his promises- particularly worrisome in the way that the said purpose of the modern Democratic party is to reassure to its base that government-based solutions can indeed improve one's quality of life, the other main thing impeding the Dems' 2022 and 2024 chances is this messaging issue. The Democratic base is becoming more and more progressive and cautious of money in politics with time, and moderate democrats' share of the party is dying. Literally, as the largest faction of "moderate dems" are the elderly, and many former moderates have become more progressive in their politics, or switched sides altogether. Despite younger and more progressive Dems becoming less patient with money in politics/corruption, only a select few Democrats- the Squad, Bernie (not truly a Dem, but ya know), and a couple others, make "getting money out of politics" a hallmark of their campaign. The Democratic Party and it's higher-ups tend to be quite silent when it comes to the role of plutocrats and dark money in the party. Partly because any major political party needs to secure wealthy donors to remain viable, and an openly "anti-rich" party would fail in that mission, while also because many "establishment" Dems are just as corrupted by these influences as the Republican establishment. The Democratic Party itself cannot seem to meaningfully satisfy it's growing anti-corporate fervor while also not scare off its Koch and Adelson types.
And this is how it relates to Manchin, BBB, and it's failure. In all likelihood, there are numerous senate Democrats who want to see the bill fail. While Sinema (obviously), it is likely that some of the more conservative Dems like Coons, Tester, Hassan, Shaheen, and possibly even Feinstein, would have serious misgivings with BBB. They already were against some of Biden's more progressive initiatives like the $15 min. wage, and are notorious for accepting corporate contributions, so it is likely. After all, it is a significantly more progressive bill than the bipartisan infrastructure deal, and less palatable towards big business. Therefore, putting all of the blame on one obstructionist Democrat- a dinosaur from the most Republican state in America who is already reviled by most Dems, is not only far easier, but safer for the party, than bringing the vote to the floor, where push comes to shove for the rest of the moderate Dems. Bernie had remarked how despite BBB's essential "death", it should still be brought to the floor. This would be done not only to publicly censure Manchin, forcing him to explain to the 73% of West Virginians who expressed support for BBB why he voted "Nay" for provisions like lower insulin/drug prices, child tax credit, Medicare's coverage of eyeglasses/dental, and even a research fund devoted to coal miners afflicted with black lung of all things, but also to reveal other Democrats who could also vote no. Having more than just one or two Democrats who are unequivocally against Biden's agenda- which is just slightly to the left of Obama's ultimately, would be an absolute nightmare for the party and it's messaging. Imagine if it was like the early Obama era and the senate was 57-43 Dem. If big business is really that against BBB, it is possible that seven Joe Manchins would emerge and obstruct the bill, causing it to still fail. My point is simple: Democrats can portray Manchin as the rare exception to the party- which in many ways, he is- to evade blame for their horrible messaging a priori, while also shielding the moderate Dems who could vote no from any scrutiny. The anger, hatred, and impatience would ideally be directed at Manchin, not Biden and the Democratic party.
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McLaren
Premium
- 45,492
- Texas
Trump once again promotes the vaccines straight to Candace's face as she tries to steer the topic a couple times. Trump even comments China's education system is better than ours in response to Candace claiming masking children in schools is like China or something.
The interesting/funny thing is some of the reactions from Trump supporters.
The interesting/funny thing is some of the reactions from Trump supporters.
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McLaren
Premium
- 45,492
- Texas
Candace Owens basically says Trump too old to know better about the vaccines. 
www.independent.co.uk
This dummy trying to do "damage control" even though anyone who heard the interview also heard the real reason Trump is pushing for the vaccines. Because he himself, blessed the world with not 1, not 2, but 3 vaccines.
Candace Owens says Trump believes in vaccines because he is not on the internet
The Daily Wire podcast host is facing backlash after Mr Trump spoke positively about the Covid-19 vaccines on her podcast
www.independent.co.uk
This dummy trying to do "damage control" even though anyone who heard the interview also heard the real reason Trump is pushing for the vaccines. Because he himself, blessed the world with not 1, not 2, but 3 vaccines.
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- 87,071
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
So it turns out the "Earthen vessel" who's now split with her husband, Madison Cawthorn, might have been a Russian asset...
... given that he apparently just wandered into St. Petersburg from Sweden/Norway (after all, who needs a visa to do that) and then met his future wife in an illegal casino (gambling has been banned in Russia since 2009, with the exception of a handful of regions) in the city.
... given that he apparently just wandered into St. Petersburg from Sweden/Norway (after all, who needs a visa to do that) and then met his future wife in an illegal casino (gambling has been banned in Russia since 2009, with the exception of a handful of regions) in the city.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,492
- Texas
1) What surgery is he referring to that would keep him from ever getting on an airplane again?
2) Who takes a vacation to Sweden/Norway and just decides to take a 38-hour ferry (from what I've found on Google) into Russia?
Just random observations/questions outside the obvious ones. Of course, when it comes to Madison, whatever he tells you, something else actually happened b/c this dude has a beefy list of lying, whether it's his accident, college, entrepreneurship, the Navy, Paralympics, etc.
2) Who takes a vacation to Sweden/Norway and just decides to take a 38-hour ferry (from what I've found on Google) into Russia?
Just random observations/questions outside the obvious ones. Of course, when it comes to Madison, whatever he tells you, something else actually happened b/c this dude has a beefy list of lying, whether it's his accident, college, entrepreneurship, the Navy, Paralympics, etc.
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