America - The Official Thread

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Trump and the peeing hookers, three years of Russian collusion, two impeachments, and you guys are all ready to go for it again.

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Good luck.
Why do I have a feeling you would still be trying to kiss their asses even as they're lining you up against a blood stained wall?

These people are not your friends, they literally hate you, yet you still blindly support them. If anyone here needs a "good luck" wish, it's you. Whatever happens to Trump as a result of this really won't effect much in anyone's individual life, however if the GOP gets their way they will make life for people like yourself a living hell.
 
Trump and the peeing hookers, three years of Russian collusion, two impeachments, and you guys are all ready to go for it again.


Good luck.
LOL, Trump conservatives are biggest, gullible chumps running all sorts of defense acting like there was nothing there to raid or the evidence was planted, and the idiot comes right out & admits, "Yeah, I declassified the documents my lawyer argued was planted evidence".
 
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LOL, Trump conservatives are biggest, gullible chumps running all sorts of defense acting like there was nothing there to raid or the evidence was planted, and the idiot comes right out & admits, "Yeah, I declassified the documents my lawyer argued was planted evidence".
Would those be the planted documents that he didn't know where there because he didn't pack the boxes so he didn't know what he was declassifying through thought instead of going through the proper channels, but Obama...?
 
I was sort of expecting Chrunch to nope the **** out of here for good. I'm so ****ing glad to have had that expectation subverted.

laugh ron GIF


Modern American conservatism is mental illness.
 
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Why do I have a feeling you would still be trying to kiss their asses even as they're lining you up against a blood stained wall?

These people are not your friends, they literally hate you, yet you still blindly support them. If anyone here needs a "good luck" wish, it's you. Whatever happens to Trump as a result of this really won't effect much in anyone's individual life, however if the GOP gets their way they will make life for people like yourself a living hell.
While I think that all politicians are more or less in it just for themselves. I’m not exactly sure how you mean that the GOP hates their constituents and wants to make their life’s hell.

Although I give all the kinds of “political groupies” the 10 degree head tilt when they start ranting, even I’ll admit that we’ve never seen anything like the hardcore “trumpers”.
 
While I think that all politicians are more or less in it just for themselves. I’m not exactly sure how you mean that the GOP hates their constituents and wants to make their life’s hell.

Although I give all the kinds of “political groupies” the 10 degree head tilt when they start ranting, even I’ll admit that we’ve never seen anything like the hardcore “trumpers”.
I believe what Northstar is referring to is Chrunch in recent times who has said he's gay, which is completely fine. The weird thing is his constant desire to run defense for the GOP who have not hid their disdain for gays, as recently noted with the Log Cabin Republicans.

“We failed”: Gay Republicans who fought for acceptance in Texas GOP see little progress​

Since the group’s inception in 1989, the Log Cabin Republicans of Texas have been denied a booth at the state convention. And this year’s convention was no different. Booths are granted to all sorts of conservative interest groups, advocating for issues related to gun rights, anti-abortion issues and freedom from vaccines. A booth, in many ways, is symbolic of a seat at the table.

“Getting a booth also became a signal of party approval,” Carpenter said. “You have ‘arrived’ and are accepted in the GOP.”


Then, there was that weird attempt with Scaff to argue that the church hates gay sex, not gay people which is such a sad thought to put forth.
 
I believe what Northstar is referring to is Chrunch in recent times who has said he's gay, which is completely fine. The weird thing is his constant desire to run defense for the GOP who have not hid their disdain for gays, as recently noted with the Log Cabin Republicans.




Then, there was that weird attempt with Scaff to argue that the church hates gay sex, not gay people which is such a sad thought to put forth.
The biggest thing IMO, that holds back the GOP, is there unwavering loyalty to the hardcore Bible Belt types. I’m not super religious and rarely go to church, but know a lot of very religious people. I’ve never seen any that are homophobic. Not saying it doesn’t exist because I know it does. Could be just two different hats that they wear…. Idk

I’ve always wondered if the GOP’s tie to the church in the Bible Belt revolves around campaign donations. Much like labor unions and the Democratic Party.

The church is an interesting thing in politics, because the most religious communities I’ve see are generally the Blacks. There’s a church every block in South Central Los Angeles. And every couple years around election time, you see the politicians start making their rounds. And it goes without saying that those communities are very predominantly democrats
 
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Trump and the peeing hookers, three years of Russian collusion, two impeachments, and you guys are all ready to go for it again.

View attachment 1183513
Good luck.
The fact that Trump was never convicted of collusion or on his two impeachment charges isn’t because he was innocent. He was guilty. We know because he was doing these things in the open. He never made any effort to hide his corruption. The evidence was irrefutable. He got away with it all because Republicans chose party over nation.

Okay, I’ll admit, I haven’t seen the pee tape. But c’mon man. This is Trump. As soon as we heard it, our first instinct was “I can totally see that.” People believe the tape exists (and we don’t know that it doesn’t) because Trump is a Baron Harkonnen level vulgarian. He’s lived such a debauched life, do we really believe someone doesn’t have some dirt on him somewhere?
 
The fact that Trump was never convicted of collusion or on his two impeachment charges isn’t because he was innocent. He was guilty. We know because he was doing these things in the open. He never made any effort to hide his corruption. The evidence was irrefutable. He got away with it all because Republicans chose party over nation.

Okay, I’ll admit, I haven’t seen the pee tape. But c’mon man. This is Trump. As soon as we heard it, our first instinct was “I can totally see that.” People believe the tape exists (and we don’t know that it doesn’t) because Trump is a Baron Harkonnen level vulgarian. He’s lived such a debauched life, do we really believe someone doesn’t have some dirt on him somewhere?
Of course theirs dirt on him. I mean, come on’… the guy has several NDA’s.

The problem with the whole Russian collusion thing, was it was started. I’m not much of a copy and paste guy like you lot, but there’s this

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/18/politics/steele-dossier-reckoning/index.html

And this was a lot of time after the likes of CNN/MSNBC went to town about this for what?…. 2-3 years.

I do get why people are distrusting of the FBI. The whole Russian collusion thing, James Comey basically going to the very cliff of indicting Hillary Clinton but not doing it, saying that hunter Biden’s laptop was Russia misinformation.

But what bothers me right now is conservative media saying we want the same treatment Hillary Clinton got… while 3 years ago they were up in arms (rightfully so might I add). But nonetheless, it’s pretty hypocritical of the conservative media to take this stance right now.

I’m going to wait for the facts to trickle out before I make judgement, but the whole Trump-Espionage thing doesn’t pass the smell test at this particular moment, right now. Not if he was planning on running which all indications led to him doing just that. I think this whole thing has to do more with the Jan 6th case.
 
Not if he was planning on running which all indications led to him doing just that.
I'm not sure that would really have an effect considering he probably figured he was smarter than the FBI so wouldn't get caught. And considering how much time has passed since he was evicted he probably thought he was in the clear. It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone threw away long term prospects for a crime with comparatively little payoff.

Honestly, for all the talk of a mysterious informant, I really wouldn't be shocked if it wound up just being Trump whispering it in the wrong person's ear. I wonder if by chance he's been hanging around Alex Jones' lawyers recently?
 
I'm not sure that would really have an effect considering he probably figured he was smarter than the FBI so wouldn't get caught. And considering how much time has passed since he was evicted he probably thought he was in the clear. It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone threw away long term prospects for a crime with comparatively little payoff.

Honestly, for all the talk of a mysterious informant, I really wouldn't be shocked if it wound up just being Trump whispering it in the wrong person's ear. I wonder if by chance he's been hanging around Alex Jones' lawyers recently?
There’s nothing ground braking in this theory, but given the very wide parameters of the warrant, I think the “classified documents” was just the FBI’s ‘in’ to look for January 6th stuff. The espionage accusations I think might not have much to them. Just window dressing for public consumption.

When it gets to court, it’ll probably just come down to a matter of semantics and what constitutes classified vs unclassified… and if the process was followed properly.

But that’s all under the assumption that they don’t find documents relating to January 6th and just go with that.

I know this will get a few laughs from this crowd…. But I still don’t put it past Trump or his team that they leaked ‘bad info’ to someone on purpose knowing something like this would happen. I mean… if he was serious about running, with so much baggage around him, he would need something of this magnitude to help him out.

If he is in fact guilty of all charges, then by all means he should be hung out to dry. But man, if there is some politics involved with this and the democrats are hoping the dots connect… I just don’t get their strategy. Their best bet for 2024 IS for trump to be on the ticket. The last thing the Dems want is to have to go up against a candidate with little baggage. Especially if Biden is in fact planning on going for re-election
 
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There’s nothing ground braking in this theory, but given the very wide parameters of the warrant, I think the “classified documents” was just the FBI’s ‘in’ to look for January 6th stuff. The espionage accusations I think might not have much to them. Just window dressing for public consumption.
The parameters really don't seem all that wide and I'm not really sure how anything from Jan.6 would even fall under the umbrella of it. And going by the receipt it certainly seems like they found quite a few things that Trump should not have had on his personal property.


When it gets to court, it’ll probably just come down to a matter of semantics and what constitutes classified vs unclassified… and if the process was followed properly.
No semantics needed, if the cover sheet says "CLASSIFIED" it's a safe bet to say it's classified.
Their best bet for 2024 IS for trump to be on the ticket. The last thing the Dems want is to have to go up against a candidate with little baggage. Especially if Biden is in fact planning on going for re-election
Considering how well Trump backed conservatives have done, I'm not so sure on this part. At this point in the game if Trump were to suddenly find himself unable to run the GOP would be in a similar situation to the Democrats with no real figurehead.
 
The parameters really don't seem all that wide and I'm not really sure how anything from Jan.6 would even fall under the umbrella of it. And going by the receipt it certainly seems like they found quite a few things that Trump should not have had on his personal property.



No semantics needed, if the cover sheet says "CLASSIFIED" it's a safe bet to say it's classified.

Considering how well Trump backed conservatives have done, I'm not so sure on this part. At this point in the game if Trump were to suddenly find himself unable to run the GOP would be in a similar situation to the Democrats with no real figurehead.
I forget the exact wording in the warrant, but its basically reads that if they find anything else illegal, they can pursue those crimes too. Kinda like cops doing an illegal firearms raid and finding a mound of cocaine. As with January 6th stuff, who knows what they’d be looking for. Maybe some correspondence with someone that shows he in fact knew the election wasn’t stolen, but he was saying it to stir things up.

While I agree with you with the whole ‘semantics’ thing, what I meant, and where I could see it getting sticky is if Trump did in fact order documents to become declassified, and the ball got dropped or feet were dragged down river. But I’m just spitballing here

As far as Republican candidates, there’s quite a few. Noem, Tim Scott, Nikki Haley, Desantis, Dan Crenshaw and a few others. I’m sure Rubio would probably even throw his name into the hat again. But you would have to watch conservative media or be really into politics to even know who they are.
 
I forget the exact wording in the warrant, but its basically reads that if they find anything else illegal, they can pursue those crimes too.
I literally posted a link to the warrant, click on it and read page 4, it's pretty specific about what they can take.

While I agree with you with the whole ‘semantics’ thing, what I meant, and where I could see it getting sticky is if Trump did in fact order documents to become declassified, and the ball got dropped or feet were dragged down river. But I’m just spitballing here
Than there would be paperwork and would be easily provable, yet the Trump camp doesn't seem to be in any hurry to present any such evidence to support such a defense. In fact they seem to be intent to do everything but provide evidence that gives a good reason for Trump to have whatever classified documents he had.

Again, there's no semantics involved because there's no gray area.
 
I literally posted a link to the warrant, click on it and read page 4, it's pretty specific about what they can take.


Than there would be paperwork and would be easily provable, yet the Trump camp doesn't seem to be in any hurry to present any such evidence to support such a defense. In fact they seem to be intent to do everything but provide evidence that gives a good reason for Trump to have whatever classified documents he had.

Again, there's no semantics involved because there's no gray area.
Page 3, article A. Read the verbiage after the first comma.

All of article C on the same page.



At least in my interpretation, that seems like a pretty wide scope.


As far as what the Trump camp is or isn’t doing right now is anyones guess. I’m curious as well
 
very wide parameters of the warrant
Nope. Tell me you don't know what the **** you're talking about without actually telling me you don't know what the **** you're talking about.
I forget the exact wording in the warrant, but its basically reads that if they find anything else illegal, they can pursue those crimes too.
There's no such language in the warrant. You should probably not pretend you've read it while engaging others who have actually read it.
 
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Page 4, my bad. Fat-fingered that one.

But this is what I’m referring to. Article A after the first comma. All of article C


None of those 2 things necessarily have to do with classified documents , the way I’m interpreting at least. Especially C. The way I’m interpreting Article A is that any documents/whatever in or around a box that contains classified documents is fair game
 
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None of those 2 things necessarily have to do with classified documents , the way I’m interpreting at least. Especially C. The way I’m interpreting Article A is that any documents/whatever in a box that contains classified documents is fair game
I think that's pretty standard with a warrant so they can do a more detailed investigation of the stuff found with the stuff in question. For example, imagine if a page stuck to another page and it was missed. Taking the whole box means they can go through it more thoroughly. Also, there could be forensic evidence on items not pertaining to the case that could offer information.
 
I think that's pretty standard with a warrant so they can do a more detailed investigation of the stuff found with the stuff in question. For example, imagine if a page stuck to another page and it was missed. Taking the whole box means they can go through it more thoroughly. Also, there could be forensic evidence on items not pertaining to the case that could offer information.
I would agree with you that it’s pretty standard stuff too. For the same reasons that police can do a bust for “x” but also persecute for “y” and “z” if they find other crimes

Nonetheless, I’m thinking there’s also a chance they used the excuse of “mishandled classified documents” to see what else they can gin up, in particular January 6th stuff. Me thinks that’s what they’re really after. We shall see
 
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I would agree with you that it’s pretty standard stuff too. For the same reasons that police can do a bust for “x” but also persecute for “y” and “z” if they find other crimes
I'm pretty sure the only time that actually works is when the evidence of additional crimes is basically laying in the open or discovered within the limits drawn out in the warrant. In this case any Jan. 6 documents would pretty much have to be stored in the same box as whatever classified stuff he had because it's not like the agents that executed the search are going to read every single word of every document and I doubt he had incriminating evidence about it just laying around 1.5 years after the fact.

Nonetheless, I’m thinking there’s also a chance they used the excuse of “mishandled classified documents” to see what else they can gin up, in particular January 6th stuff. Me thinks that’s what they’re really after. We shall see
I really don't get why you're so hung up on this Jan. 6 thing because at this point that seems like small :censored:ing potatoes compared to what's on the receipt of stuff they removed (I'm pretty sure "Top Secret" isn't thrown around lightly). Plus if that was the real reason I have to imagine they would have said so considering that along with the classified documents would make the whole thing that much juicer as far as the press is concerned.
 
I'm pretty sure the only time that actually works is when the evidence of additional crimes is basically laying in the open or discovered within the limits drawn out in the warrant. In this case any Jan. 6 documents would pretty much have to be stored in the same box as whatever classified stuff he had because it's not like the agents that executed the search are going to read every single word of every document and I doubt he had incriminating evidence about it just laying around 1.5 years after the fact.


I really don't get why you're so hung up on this Jan. 6 thing because at this point that seems like small :censored:ing potatoes compared to what's on the receipt of stuff they removed (I'm pretty sure "Top Secret" isn't thrown around lightly). Plus if that was the real reason I have to imagine they would have said so considering that along with the classified documents would make the whole thing that much juicer as far as the press is concerned.
I agree with your first statement. But the way I read this warrant, any contents within or adjacent to the boxes in question is essentially the same thing as it “being out in the open”. I will add an amendment though. I’d bet my paycheck the FBI is scouring every page of whatever it is they took. They have to come up with big evidence to justify this raid.

Big evidence about something.




As with your second statement, I think the FBI would be foolish to outright say that, because then it could be construed as politically motivated. Especially this close to the midterms. And the media doesn’t need much to make anything having to do with Trump juicy. Heck, Trump was the best thing that ever happened to CNN’s and MSNBC’s ratings.

But speaking from a media/political narrative POV, if the FBI could unequivocally pin January 6th to Trump in a way where it PROVES that he knows he was lying about the election being stolen. That there is the gold ring for the media my friend. The mishandling of classified documents at that point is just a bonus.

The only reason I keep bringing up January 6th, is because this day in age, the narrative is more important and influential than the facts. I think the democrats would be able to get much more campaign mileage out of January 6th then they could out of the mishandling of classified documents. It’s hard to box in the entire Republican Party constituency, as a bunch of hill-billy psychos over a bunch of documents.

At least that’s what I’d be thinking if I was a Democratic strategist
 
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Perhaps we could do with the perspective of an actual lawyer to settle some of the groundwork around how warrants work:


Nonetheless, I’m thinking there’s also a chance they used the excuse of “mishandled classified documents” to see what else they can gin up, in particular January 6th stuff. Me thinks that’s what they’re really after. We shall see
Also, I think you underestimate the seriousness of mishandling classified documents. For normal people, mishandling BOXES of classified documents is go to gaol and never come out territory.
 
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There’s nothing ground braking in this theory, but given the very wide parameters of the warrant, I think the “classified documents” was just the FBI’s ‘in’ to look for January 6th stuff. The espionage accusations I think might not have much to them. Just window dressing for public consumption.
What Jan 6th stuff?

So far, what's been reported as found is stuff that appears to go well beyond Jan 6th.
When it gets to court, it’ll probably just come down to a matter of semantics and what constitutes classified vs unclassified… and if the process was followed properly.
It's Donald Trump; of course any sort of declassification process was not followed properly because he's already inadvertently admitted as such. He claims he declassified it, but the general reports seem to indicate that's not how any of that works just because he said so.
But that’s all under the assumption that they don’t find documents relating to January 6th and just go with that.
Again, what seems to be reported as found looks to be a more serious issue than even Jan. 6th.
The FBI took 11 sets of classified files in total, including four that were labelled "top secret". Three sets were classified as "secret documents" and three were "confidential".
The cache also included files marked "TS/SCI", a designation for the country's most important secrets that if revealed publicly could cause "exceptionally grave" damage to US national security.
I know this will get a few laughs from this crowd…. But I still don’t put it past Trump or his team that they leaked ‘bad info’ to someone on purpose knowing something like this would happen.
This is beyond the silliest conspiracy yet. You give Trump way too much intelligence for what little of pea-sized brain he has.
If he is in fact guilty of all charges, then by all means he should be hung out to dry.
How about ignore all the, "What if this is all just a way to lead in 2024" nonsense for a moment. If this guy is just taking home extremely classified information that reportedly is to only be viewed in a specific, secure location, this starts to elevate above 2024 or Jan 6th levels of concern.
 
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