America - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter ///M-Spec
  • 39,749 comments
  • 1,793,416 views
Sanji Himura
@Danoff is pretty much correct. Plato once said that, "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." The state of the union has pretty much opened many eyes to the need to reign in our public officials. That is why McConnell is up in a tough primary fight in Kentucky. And even if he does survive the primary, that seat will turn blue.
Click to expand...
Don't be so sure about that. There is still a good portion of this state that won't vote Democrat because Obama.
 
Danoff
I think it'll be obvious to most people why I don't draw a line between one freedom and the next.
Click to expand...
You might not draw lines but political parties do. When it comes to Democrats and Republicans, economics and morality are treated separately and differently. On the left, socialism and gay sex. On the right, crony corporatism and no sex til you're married (to makeup-less housewife with large tits) at risk of death by firing squad.
 
I have a few things I ran across today.

First, The terrifying surveillance case of Brandon Mayfield. This is why you should worry about surveillance, even if you are innocent of any wrongdoing.

During a live Web chat in late January, National Security Agency whistle-blower Edward Snowden explained one of the least discussed dangers of bulk collection. By indiscriminately sweeping up the call records and the international communications of Americans, the government has the ability to engage in retroactive investigation, or mining the historical data of targets for any evidence of suspicious, illegal or simply embarrassing activities. It is a disturbing capability that should make even those fully convinced of their own propriety to think twice before uttering out loud, “What do I have to fear if I have nothing to hide?”

But there’s another danger that Snowden didn’t mention that’s inherent in the government’s having easy access to the voluminous data we produce every day: It can imply guilt where there is none. When investigators have mountains of data on a particular target, it’s easy to see only the data points that confirm their theories — especially in counterterrorism investigations when the stakes are so high — while ignoring or downplaying the rest. There doesn’t have to be any particular malice on the part of investigators or analysts, although prejudice no doubt comes into play, just circumstantial evidence and the dangerous belief in their intuition. Social scientists refer to this phenomenon as confirmation bias, and when people are confronted with data overload, it’s much easier to weave the data into a narrative that substantiates what they already believe. Criminologist D. Kim Rossmo, a retired detective inspector of the Vancouver Police Department, was so concerned about confirmation bias and the investigative failures it causes that he warned police officers in Police Chief magazine to always be on guard against it. “The components of confirmation bias,” he wrote, “include failure to seek evidence that would disprove the theory, not utilizing such evidence if found, refusing to consider alternative hypotheses and not evaluating evidence diagnosticity.”

To get a better sense of the dangers, consider the case of Brandon Mayfield.

Mistaken identity
On March 11, 2004, Al-Qaeda-inspired terrorists coordinated a massive bombing of the Madrid commuter train system during the morning rush hour, killing 193 people and wounding approximately 1,800. Two latent fingerprints recovered during the investigation on a bag of detonators by the Spanish National Police (SNP) were shared with the FBI through Interpol. When the prints were run through the bureau’s database, it returned 20 possible matches for one of the fingerprints, one of whom was Brandon Mayfield. A former U.S. Army platoon leader, Mayfield was now an attorney specializing in child custody, divorce and immigration law in Portland, Ore. His prints were in the FBI system because of Mayfield’s military service as well as an arrest two decades earlier because of a misunderstanding. The charges were later dropped.

Despite finding that Mayfield’s print was not an identical match to the print left on the bag of detonators, FBI fingerprint examiners rationalized away the differences, according to a report by the Department of Justice’s Office of the Inspector General (OIG). Under the one discrepancy rule, the FBI lab should have concluded Mayfield did not leave the print found in Madrid — a conclusion the SNP reached and repeatedly communicated to the FBI. The FBI’s Portland field Algerian national Ouhane Daoud. Only then did Mayfield’s traumatic journey into the stomach of the national security state end.

Cautionary tale
Mayfield’s ordeal is a cautionary tale of what can happen when the government clamps down on its suspect and refuses to release its grip. In the fortunate case of Mayfield, the government finally released him but only after it turned his life upside down in the process.

Nearly a decade later, the government’s secret surveillance capabilities have become only more powerful, thanks to social media, smartphones and other technologies. The bulk collection of Americans’ personal data makes it more likely that false positives — innocent Mayfields coming under government scrutiny — will occur. And when that false positive is an American Muslim or an anarchist or an aggressive environmental activist, will government agents and analysts have the ability to set aside their prejudices and excitement and weigh all information, particularly contradictory evidence, before condemning those unfortunate few to bogus charges and public suspicion?

Confirmation bias should make us skeptical of this possibility.
Click to expand...




Also, let's stop talking about left/right, democrat/republican. It's what they want you to do.

 
You know, sometimes I forget who the good guys are supposed to be.

Catherine Englebrecht testifies before Congress about how the moment she started a political non-profit her otherwise quiet life was turned upside down by repeated IRS audits and inquiries, and even FBI investigations. This is another example of how surveillance can harm you by doing nothing wrong. This is far more serious than just confirmation bias.



And what happens when you combine NSA surveillance and drone strikes?

Just killing innocent civilians.

The NSA's surveillance programs are often used to help carry out drone strikes on targets, according to a new report, and sometimes there are unintended victims. An anonymous former drone operator for Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) told The Intercept — a new publication helmed by Glenn Greenwald, who broke the first of many NSA revelations last year — that the US military and CIA use the NSA's metadata analysis and phone-tracking abilities to identify airstrike targets without confirming their veracity on the ground. The claims were corroborated by documents provided by the former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.

INNOCENT PEOPLE HAVE "ABSOLUTELY" BEEN KILLED

While the former JSOC operator says that the practice has been helpful in taking out known terrorists and insurgents that attack with improvised explosive devices (IEDs) in Afghanistan, he also maintains that innocent people have "absolutely" been killed as a result of the technology, which is known to be unreliable. Some targets reportedly use up to 16 SIM cards in an attempt to evade the NSA's tracking, or lend their phones to friends or family members while unaware of the surveillance.

The Washington Post previously reported on the NSA's involvement in drone strikes, claiming that it had become "the single most important intelligence agency in finding al-Qaeda and other enemies overseas," with its geolocation team adopting the motto of 'We track 'em, you whack 'em.'" But The Intercept's report highlights the pitfalls and consequences of the technology. "Once the bomb lands or a night raid happens, you know that phone is there," says the former JSOC operator. "But we don’t know who’s behind it, who’s holding it. It’s of course assumed that the phone belongs to a human being who is nefarious and considered an 'unlawful enemy combatant.' This is where it gets very shady."

"WE’RE NOT GOING AFTER PEOPLE — WE’RE GOING AFTER THEIR PHONES."

"People get hung up that there’s a targeted list of people," says the former JSOC operator. "It’s really like we’re targeting a cell phone. We’re not going after people — we’re going after their phones, in the hopes that the person on the other end of that missile is the bad guy."
Click to expand...



And to think, fear of government tyranny was just called paranoia in another thread.
 
Police shoot and kill an 80-year-old man, in bed, and fail to find the drugs they had a warrant to search for. The "War on Drugs" continues taking innocent lives at the hands of cops who seem to think a warrant gives them the right to act as they please, lie about it afterward, and lie more when audio/video evidence contradicts their story. I don't know whether the cops' new militarized mentality is the root or this "War on Drugs," but people keep dying on all sides of this thing, and in this instance people not involved at all.

 
Last edited:
There's a thread on Reddit with a title asking what people should care about. It's full of lame hippie replies like the environment and antibiotics and stuff. So far I'm the only one who has suggested government. It'll probably get downvoted. I mean, if people don't care about their government eventually they won't be free to care about anything else.
 
Keef
There's a thread on Reddit with a title asking what people should care about. It's full of lame hippie replies like the environment and antibiotics and stuff. So far I'm the only one who has suggested government. It'll probably get downvoted. I mean, if people don't care about their government eventually they won't be free to care about anything else.
Click to expand...

Nice post.

We go through phases in what we care about, I think. The infant wants his milk and toys. The teenager really wants girls and hopefully cars. Later, we care about more seriously stuff once the basics are served.

I had a phase of march and protest, and another of direct participation in local precinct politicking, primaries and voting.

Today, I'm more interested in craft brew and Game of Thrones.
 
As well, BBC news reports that the US is cutting back the size of its army to about 450,000 personnel, the lowest since the before World War Two, apparently.

Any truth from this from our American members?

Incidentally, a graphic from said BBC article.

_72789460_military_spending_624v3.gif
 
Just thought it was an interesting graphic. Considering how unbalanced the Federal budget is, seeing how much is spent on defence compared to other nations is a somewhat interesting parallel. Trim the army, trim Government expenditure: given that the US' defence budget is almost larger than the next fourteen nations combined, there are significant savings to be had after two costly foreign wars.
 
Liquid
Just thought it was an interesting graphic. Considering how unbalanced the Federal budget is, seeing how much is spent on defence compared to other nations is a somewhat interesting parallel. Trim the army, trim Government expenditure: given that the US' defence budget is almost larger than the next fourteen nations combined, there are significant savings to be had after two costly foreign wars.
Click to expand...
chart_3.jpg

Very true BUT the US has tons of military commitments that all of those nations do not. I agree on reducing the budget but fear that the current cut will be like the post WW1 and Post WW2 drawdowns . The end result of those were debacles at Kazernine pass (WW2) and Task Force Smith(Korea) and I fear we will see another.
Granted my view of it is a bit skewed since I am a US Army Veteran.
 
homeforsummer
Or "international affairs", perhaps?
Click to expand...

I thought that, but I was under the impression that the US contributed a lot of foreign aid. I would have thought the percentage would be greater than 1% but I could be wrong.
 
Liquid
I thought that, but I was under the impression that the US contributed a lot of foreign aid. I would have thought the percentage would be greater than 1% but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
The US government budget is massive too almost 4 trillion $ IIRC.
 
Liquid
As well, BBC news reports that the US is cutting back the size of its army to about 450,000 personnel, the lowest since the before World War Two, apparently.

Any truth from this from our American members?

Incidentally, a graphic from said BBC article.

_72789460_military_spending_624v3.gif
Click to expand...
This chart is wrong. The US does not have the biggest defense budget. What we have is the biggest offense budget because, let's be honest, we haven't fumbled the ball in like 100 years. We've run up and down the field how many times now?
 
Gawker has really been pissing me off lately.

http://gawker.com/prof-who-wrote-slavery-wasnt-so-bad-still-gainfully-1529610135

They want to try to roast Block as a racist for insensitive-while-out-of-context humor after he takes a jab at an argument.

I'm really sick of all this alarmism and "OOOH! I'M TELLING MOM! (Twitter?)" shame-ism that seems to be taking over the internet as it relates to things thrust into the public sphere. I think it's ruining America. This has been especially apparent to me as the whole gay acceptance movement has been forced more and more into the spotlight. It seems like being politically correct has gone from snarky tendency to inviolable gospel. And, in the new age of social media, too many are too quick to castigate, defame, and hate those whom the few-- with their undies eternally knotted-- have decided deserve censure.

I'm sick of it. I wouldn't have a problem if it didn't remind me so much of Idiocracy. Is this the new demagoguery?
 
Beeker1972
America is still the best country on this planet ... with all its faults ...
Click to expand...

That's exactly why you americans have so many problems. You think you are the best and have the best of everything. America should learn a lot with other countries. :)

I preffer 10x a central/north european society. I live in Portugal for example. It's a poor country in southern Europe but that's just in economics. In terms of social tolerance, respect, health care, solidarity, and so on is one of the best in Europe / world. Portugal as the first country in the orld to abolish the death penalty. We have sun, beach, snow, mountains, and a very nice and stable weather. :)

The best country is just an utopia. There are a lot of great countries to live a great life. But that depends on you experience and culture.

ps: I still want to visit USA and some of its great citys and landscapes.
 

Similar threads

Ross
  • Poll
Britain - The Official Thread
444 445 446
Replies
13K
Views
617K
Sprite
Sprite
Dylan
2025 NASCAR Discussion Thread
2
Replies
43
Views
4K
Dylan
Dylan
Harley45
What did you do in GT7 today?
447 448 449
Replies
13K
Views
740K
jrbabbitt
jrbabbitt
The_Greaser
Forza Motorsport (2023): The Bugfest Thread
2 3 4
Replies
96
Views
19K
UKMikey
UKMikey
Dotini
Trump's Legacy: the US Space Force and conservative judges
Replies
1
Views
780
Dotini
Dotini

Latest Posts

Back