America - The Official Thread

[Boone]

Vietnam and the first Gulf war were a bit of an anti-climax though.

I've always wondered...If they dug the gulf between the classes in the first war, why did they need to go back?

 

[Keef]

Vietnam and the first Gulf war were a bit of an anti-climax though.

We went for it on the fourth down. Actually, I think the current state of affairs is proving a lot more unpopular, especially overseas. Nobody is very happy with our offensive ways right now.

 

[Johnnypenso]

We went for it on the fourth down. Actually, I think the current state of affairs is proving a lot more unpopular, especially overseas. Nobody is very happy with our offensive ways right now.

I'm pretty happy with your offensive ways. I don't see anyone invading anytime soon, got to be some value in that.

 

[Dotini]

The plans for the defense budget seem to be de-emphasizing large scale offensive wars, or even two-front wars of any kind. On the other hand, budgets for cyber warfare are going up. Apparently, Obama strongly considered turning off the power grid in Syria, especially those portions of it enabling flight operations, barrel bombings and so forth. It seems it was decided against after considering the unknown effects of countering cyber attacks by Syrians, Iranians and Russians. It sure seems inevitable that cyber warfare is coming to a theater near you.

 

[Liquid]

Apparently, Obama strongly considered turning off the power grid in Syria, especially those portions of it enabling flight operations, barrel bombings and so forth.

An American owned/run grid in Syria or was he just flagrantly ignoring all sovereignty?

 

[Dotini]

An American owned/run grid in Syria or was he just flagrantly ignoring all sovereignty?

He wanted to respond to humanitarian/human rights pleas. But was constrained by realpolitik and limits to his powers to rule the world. He was also concerned that he might do more harm than good.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/w...effects-of-waging-cyberwar-in-syria.html?_r=0

 

[Keef]

He wanted to respond to humanitarian/human rights pleas. But was constrained by realpolitik and limits to his powers to rule the world. He was also concerned that he might do more harm than good.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/w...effects-of-waging-cyberwar-in-syria.html?_r=0

Wait...our government...considered blowback?

 

[Liquid]

Clinton considered blowback a few times.

 

[Omnis]

Clinton considered blowback a few times.

 

[Beeker1972]

Yes we do have our problems, but still the best place on Earth. America needs to learn from Europe not to go down the socialist way of doing things. Bigger government is not always the answer. Look at Greece.

That's exactly why you americans have so many problems. You think you are the best and have the best of everything. America should learn a lot with other countries.

I preffer 10x a central/north european society. I live in Portugal for example. It's a poor country in southern Europe but that's just in economics. In terms of social tolerance, respect, health care, solidarity, and so on is one of the best in Europe / world. Portugal as the first country in the orld to abolish the death penalty. We have sun, beach, snow, mountains, and a very nice and stable weather.

The best country is just an utopia. There are a lot of great countries to live a great life. But that depends on you experience and culture.

ps: I still want to visit USA and some of its great citys and landscapes.

 

[Imari]

Look at Greece.

Because Greece had absolutely no problems before the EU turned up. None. Paragon of a country.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a massive fan of the EU at times, but some governments will dig their own graves regardless.

 

[zzz_pt]

Yes we do have our problems, but still the best place on Earth. America needs to learn from Europe not to go down the socialist way of doing things. Bigger government is not always the answer. Look at Greece.

Greece? With so many great examples in Europe (I said noth/center) you picked Greece. Ok... Amercians saying America is the best is normal. But that doesn't make it true.

There is not such thing as "better country in the planet". USA is better is some things but is obviously worse in a lot of things too.

 

[Danoff]

There is not such thing as "better country in the planet".

Ok, well that's not true. It is definitely possible to identify countries that are better than other countries.

 

[Dotini]

Ok, well that's not true. It is definitely possible to identify countries that are better than other countries.

When you say "better", you must specify in what way. Better food? Better views? Better in what way?

 

[Danoff]

When you say "better", you must specify in what way. Better food? Better views? Better in what way?

Government actions and roles more closely in agreement with human rights is "better" than government actions and roles not in agreement with human rights.

 

[Dotini]

I googled for best country for human rights and got this:
Iceland90.7
2Sweden90.2
3Norway89.2
4Denmark88.3
5New Zealand88.1
6Finland87.7
7Netherlands84.1
8Australia83.6
9Luxembourg83.6
10Belgium83.3

 

[Danoff]

I googled for best country for human rights and got this:
Iceland90.7
2Sweden90.2
3Norway89.2
4Denmark88.3
5New Zealand88.1
6Finland87.7
7Netherlands84.1
8Australia83.6
9Luxembourg83.6
10Belgium83.3

I think I found the source for that. It is based on the "UN human development index", which is not human rights. Beyond that, the UN has already well demonstrated that it has no clue what human rights are.

 

[zzz_pt]

Whatever thing you chose for a study in "wich country is better in X", USA will never be consistently in the top. European countries will allways be there on the top with Japan and sometimes Canada.

There is not such thing as better country. But European countries are more consistant in every study you can find.

 

[Zenith]

This is seriously a conversation.

I must've accidentally gone to YouTube or something...

 

[Dotini]

Whatever thing you chose for a study in "wich country is better in X", USA will never be consistently in the top. European countries will allways be there on the top with Japan and sometimes Canada.

There is not such thing as better country. But European countries are more consistant in every study you can find.

Aha! Howzabout which country is more powerful and better armed?! Isn't THAT one surefire way to tell which country is best?

 

[Danoff]

Whatever thing you chose for a study in "wich country is better in X", USA will never be consistently in the top. European countries will allways be there on the top with Japan and sometimes Canada.

There is not such thing as better country. But European countries are more consistant in every study you can find.

Best country for oppression of women, European countries are waaaaay behind the middle east.
Best country for portable electronics innovation and development - European countries are waaaay behind Asian countries.
Best country for cheap labor - nope!
Best country for seeing lions in their natural habitat - nope!

Any subjective way to evaluate countries is going to come up with different answers. If you prefer the name of a country to start with the letter Z, you're out of luck in North America. There is, however, an objective way to evaluate a country, and that's to look at how well that country's government preserves human rights - the proper role of government. I'd be interested to see a study on that. I don't know what country would be best, but many European countries would not do terribly well. I doubt the US would be at the top of that list.

 

[Dotini]

Best country for oppression of women, European countries are waaaaay behind the middle east.
Best country for portable electronics innovation and development - European countries are waaaay behind Asian countries.
Best country for cheap labor - nope!
Best country for seeing lions in their natural habitat - nope!

Any subjective way to evaluate countries is going to come up with different answers. If you prefer the name of a country to start with the letter Z, you're out of luck in North America. There is, however, an objective way to evaluate a country, and that's to look at how well that country's government preserves human rights - the proper role of government. I'd be interested to see a study on that. I don't know what country would be best, but many European countries would not do terribly well. I doubt the US would be at the top of that list.

Clearly the US would be best in preserving human rights, since human rights are preserved by force and the US has the most force.

 

[Danoff]

Clearly the US would be best in preserving rights, since human rights are preserved by force and the US has the most force.

I suspect this was tongue in cheek, but I'll just go ahead and say that force, even though it is used to preserve rights, is also used to remove them.

 

[Dotini]

I suspect this was tongue in cheek, but I'll just go ahead and say that force, even though it is used to preserve rights, is also used to remove them.

Not here! We are on a one-way trip to the stars!

 

[zzz_pt]

Best country for oppression of women, European countries are waaaaay behind the middle east.
Best country for portable electronics innovation and development - European countries are waaaay behind Asian countries.
Best country for cheap labor - nope!
Best country for seeing lions in their natural habitat - nope!

Any subjective way to evaluate countries is going to come up with different answers. If you prefer the name of a country to start with the letter Z, you're out of luck in North America. There is, however, an objective way to evaluate a country, and that's to look at how well that country's government preserves human rights - the proper role of government. I'd be interested to see a study on that. I don't know what country would be best, but many European countries would not do terribly well. I doubt the US would be at the top of that list.

lol.

 

[Azuremen]

lol.

This is how I've responded to many of your posts in this thread, only fitting this is what you manage as a response to an entirely valid approach to the point you've brought up.

Apparently the US ranked 3rd in the HDI in 2012, Portugal was way down the list. Not that the HDI is a great indicator of human rights and is kind of built from pick and choosing and mystery math.

 

[LeMansAid]

I'd like to put my hand up and say that I saw the wonderfully insightful posts from @Beeker1972 and chose to ignore. With good reason it seems.

 

[Beeker1972]

 

[Keef]

This is how I've responded to many of your posts in this thread, only fitting this is what you manage as a response to an entirely valid approach to the point you've brought up.

Apparently the US ranked 3rd in the HDI in 2012, Portugal was way down the list. Not that the HDI is a great indicator of human rights and is kind of built from pick and choosing and mystery math.

Mystery math, haha. Yeah, HDI doesn't have anything to do with human rights. It measures life expenctancy, education and income to try and visualize quality of life. Recently they conjured up another one which take "inequality" into account, whatever the hell that means. Basically it measure what countries suck and what ones are awesome. Go USA.

 

[Azuremen]

I'd like to put my hand up and say that I saw the wonderfully insightful posts from @Beeker1972 and chose to ignore. With good reason it seems.

I'd like to put my hand in the air and say I saw how petty and trivial this post is and felt the need to bring attention to it. Textbook example from "How to be an Ass online - Volume I"