America - The Official Thread

[zzz_pt]

This is how I've responded to many of your posts in this thread, only fitting this is what you manage as a response to an entirely valid approach to the point you've brought up.

Apparently the US ranked 3rd in the HDI in 2012, Portugal was way down the list. Not that the HDI is a great indicator of human rights and is kind of built from pick and choosing and mystery math.

I never said Portugal is the best place to live. You are the ones claiming USA is the best country on the planet. I'm sure that Portugal is better than USA in some things but that doesn't make it better.


I've searched "best countries to live in 2013". These were the first 5 entries:

1. http://lifestyle9.com/worlds-best-country-to-live-in-2013/ (not in the top 10)
2. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mkl45ljgk/1-canada/ (not in the top 10)
3. http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...countries-to-live-in-the-world-2-2820670.html (7th)
4. http://www.toptenstip.com/top-10-best-countries-to-live-in-2013/ (not in the top 10)
5. http://www.miratelinc.com/blog/10-best-countries-to-live-2013/ (6th)

For so many buzz about "we are the best" is quite clear. USA is not the best country in the world to live for the majority of the people. The 3 things that put USA in the lists sometimes are the money, IT insdustries and Universities. Unfortunatly USA have to many christian fanatics. It has the potencial to be so much better...but with so many stupid and ignorant people, it's going backwards each year.

The first country to have a constitution with separation between church and state and look at you now... :S The founding fathers would be ashamed IMO. :S

I still want to visit some places in the USA though 👍

 

[Keef]

You sound like an American rooting for your team in the Superbowl. They're losing, and you're bitching and complaining and talking about how bad they suck. The thing is, they made it to the Superbowl - everybody else already lost.

 

[zzz_pt]

Nop. The difference between us is that I have no problem assuming my country is not the best or there is not a "better" country. I'll leave this discussion to you. You may think you're the best in the world but us that live outside USA have a very different view.

One of the best positions to have is the humble one. I respect an oppinion that says "I love my country but may exist others that are better" but not a "my country is the best. Period."

regards 👍

 

[Danoff]

One of the best positions to have is the humble one. I respect an oppinion that says "I love my country but may exist others that are better" but not a "my country is the best. Period."

I guess I missed the post where someone claimed that America was the best country to live in. That would totally depend on who you are and what priorities you have. For a dictator, his dictatorship is the best country to live in. In terms of objectively measuring countries against each other, it can be done. I don't think the US would win. Hong Kong (not being a country of course) was long held as being in closer agreement with human rights than just about any other place on the planet. Not sure that's the case anymore. I'm sure there are other countries that promote human rights more effectively and consistently than the US does - but the US does it officially whereas many other places seem to do it out of pragmatism. That's a bit of an academic distinction, but it's nice to be able to point to your government and say "that thing you're doing, you're not allowed to do it", not that it stops them mind you.

 

[Azuremen]

I never said Portugal is the best place to live. You are the ones claiming USA is the best country on the planet. I'm sure that Portugal is better than USA in some things but that doesn't make it better.


I've searched "best countries to live in 2013". These were the first 5 entries:

1. http://lifestyle9.com/worlds-best-country-to-live-in-2013/ (not in the top 10)
2. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mkl45ljgk/1-canada/ (not in the top 10)
3. http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...countries-to-live-in-the-world-2-2820670.html (7th)
4. http://www.toptenstip.com/top-10-best-countries-to-live-in-2013/ (not in the top 10)
5. http://www.miratelinc.com/blog/10-best-countries-to-live-2013/ (6th)

Anytime Finland is in the top ten list, I kind of disregard the whole list. Why? Could be the high suicide rates in Finland, the almost entirely homogeneous population, the discrimination because of that population, the descriptions of it being a depressing welfare state, among other things. Norway and Sweden are similar, minus as much suicide. These lists are built from arbitrary considerations and, as I mentioned earlier, magic math. Australia continues to endorse government monopolies in telecommunications, has handled drug and gun control poorly, and leans heavily on mining (finite) for economics. Also, very different concepts of what privacy and freedom of speech are in these countries. And they all tend to have populations less than the State of California, and in some cases, smaller populations that the undocumented citizens in the US.

Also, at no point did I say the US was best - that was you coming in here deciding to be aggressive. Is there a country I'd rather live in? Probably not, between the economic options and human rights aspects. Are there a lot of problems? Oh yes, many.

As for the ignorant people, they exist everywhere, in every culture, ours just happen to get more attention because we get more international attention. Doing a YouTube video of ignorant Chinese/French/Libyan/Russia/etc people wouldn't get the same attention, though I'm sure they exist. Propaganda also takes stronger holds in many other countries, and I've had some very, very bizarre conversations with international students because of it - like the one with a Chinese guy that thought women outnumbered men in Asian countries and that is why men might find women intimidating. Which he used as the basis as to why women's rights wasn't a great thing.

I implore you to dig a bit deeper with these lists, as I have, so as to better your understanding of the world as a whole.

 

[Carbonox]

Anytime Finland is in the top ten list, I kind of disregard the whole list. Why? Could be the high suicide rates in Finland, the almost entirely homogeneous population, the discrimination because of that population, the descriptions of it being a depressing welfare state, among other things. Norway and Sweden are similar, minus as much suicide. These lists are built from arbitrary considerations and, as I mentioned earlier, magic math. Australia continues to endorse government monopolies in telecommunications, has handled drug and gun control poorly, and leans heavily on mining (finite) for economics. Also, very different concepts of what privacy and freedom of speech are in these countries. And they all tend to have populations less than the State of California, and in some cases, smaller populations that the undocumented citizens in the US.

Please don't be one of those who claim multiculturality = good by default.

 

[Joel]

Please don't be one of those who claim multiculturality = good by default.

The point is that an entirely homogeneous population in a tiny country makes it easier to enact feel good social policies and pump money into education when everyone is well off and values the same things. Also that it's a bit rich to call a place one of the best countries in the world to live in when it's only a suitable place to live for the 5 million ethnic Finns and people from other backgrounds and cultures face discrimination.

Visit Toronto and tell me that multiculturalism doesn't work. I know you're an islamophobe but there are parts of the world where people from all over the world live and work together without hating one another and everyone benefits.

 

[Danoff]

Visit Toronto and tell me that multiculturalism doesn't work.

To be fair, he didn't claim that multiculturalism doesn't work, he claimed that it's not good by default. I agree. There's nothing wrong with it, but I don't think it's automatically awesome.

 

[Joel]

To be fair, he didn't claim that multiculturalism doesn't work, he claimed that it's not good by default. I agree. There's nothing wrong with it, but I don't think it's automatically awesome.

Yeah in most cases I wouldn't have said anything but this is the guy who called Islam a hate group so there's a clear bias. It seems like he said that as an attempt to argue it without truly taking ownership of his opinion.

 

[Mustangmiha]

edit

 

[Carbonox]

The point is that an entirely homogeneous population in a tiny country makes it easier to enact feel good social policies and pump money into education when everyone is well off and values the same things. Also that it's a bit rich to call a place one of the best countries in the world to live in when it's only a suitable place to live for the 5 million ethnic Finns and people from other backgrounds and cultures face discrimination.

Visit Toronto and tell me that multiculturalism doesn't work. I know you're an islamophobe but there are parts of the world where people from all over the world live and work together without hating one another and everyone benefits.

Visit Sweden (particularly Malmö) and tell me multiculturalism works. Yeah, see what I did there. I won't question the situation in Toronto, but just because Canada has done things right, doesn't mean Europe is on the same path.

And, to be frank, Islamophobia isn't even a real phobia... rather it's a term created by politicians to make criticism of Islam look like "irrational fear".

 

[Liquid]

Quick question for all Americans (and Canadians), do you guys use ''ta''-slang term for ''thanks''? (originally used by some Brits, shortened from Danish ''takk'')

This thread on Americanisms evolved into discussion of AE and BE.

Post it there.

 

[Azuremen]

Please don't be one of those who claim multiculturality = good by default.

Well thank goodness I never said it was automatically better. But I do enjoy easier access to other cultures because damn the food can be tasty.

My main point, as @Noob616 pointed out, is that building policy for a handful of people with the same culture is much easier than a massive melting pot.

Quick question for all Americans (and Canadians), do you guys use ''ta''-slang term for ''thanks''? (originally used by some Brits, shortened from Danish ''takk'')

Considering I have no idea what this is, I'd assume not

Visit Sweden (particularly Malmö) and tell me multiculturalism works. Yeah, see what I did there. I won't question the situation in Toronto, but just because Canada has done things right, doesn't mean Europe is on the same path.

I wonder if it is because Sweden is about as diverse as Finland and the population just isn't quite there with accepting other cultures? Or even attempting to understand them.

And, to be frank, Islamophobia isn't even a real phobia... rather it's a term created by politicians to make criticism of Islam look like "irrational fear".

And, to be frank, you are a text book example of the discrimination and cultural issues that make me critical of Finland.

 

[Dotini]

delete

 

[LeMansAid]

I'd like to put my hand in the air and say I saw how petty and trivial this post is and felt the need to bring attention to it. Textbook example from "How to be an Ass online - Volume I"

I just think that you and some other parties involved are smarter and well above that kind of nonsense. I'll have no issue if you'd like to disagree though.

What does that even mean?

 

[Beeker1972]

What does that even mean?

this means the frustration of being surrounded by big government idiots ...

this means I couldn't find a face-palm emoticon...

 

[zzz_pt]

Anytime Finland is in the top ten list, I kind of disregard the whole list. Why? Could be the high suicide rates in Finland, the almost entirely homogeneous population, the discrimination because of that population, the descriptions of it being a depressing welfare state, among other things. Norway and Sweden are similar, minus as much suicide. These lists are built from arbitrary considerations and, as I mentioned earlier, magic math. Australia continues to endorse government monopolies in telecommunications, has handled drug and gun control poorly, and leans heavily on mining (finite) for economics. Also, very different concepts of what privacy and freedom of speech are in these countries. And they all tend to have populations less than the State of California, and in some cases, smaller populations that the undocumented citizens in the US.

Also, at no point did I say the US was best - that was you coming in here deciding to be aggressive. Is there a country I'd rather live in? Probably not, between the economic options and human rights aspects. Are there a lot of problems? Oh yes, many.

As for the ignorant people, they exist everywhere, in every culture, ours just happen to get more attention because we get more international attention. Doing a YouTube video of ignorant Chinese/French/Libyan/Russia/etc people wouldn't get the same attention, though I'm sure they exist. Propaganda also takes stronger holds in many other countries, and I've had some very, very bizarre conversations with international students because of it - like the one with a Chinese guy that thought women outnumbered men in Asian countries and that is why men might find women intimidating. Which he used as the basis as to why women's rights wasn't a great thing.

I implore you to dig a bit deeper with these lists, as I have, so as to better your understanding of the world as a whole.

You dig deep? I would like to see any data of that. That was a situation in the 90s... 20 years ago. It's a myth nowadays and you should be informed before you say it. Any recent list you bring won't have any of those counties in it.

http://cooltop10s.com/top-10-countries-high-suicide/

Since 1990, suicide rates have decreased in many OECD countries, with declines of 40% or more in Denmark, Estonia, Hungary, Finland and Austria.

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/...l?itemId=/content/chapter/factbook-2013-97-en

Denmark, Finland, Sweden have a decrease of 50-40% of suicide rates from 1990-2010.
___

I didn't decide to be aggressive. I quoted someone that said USA is the best country in the planet and gave my oppinion. If you disagreed it's alright.

Every country has its own problems. I just think USA is worse that a bunch of other countries in some important issues but it's only my oppinion. I also think that USA is way better than my own country in SOME things.


edit: http://www.bbc.com/travel/blog/20110622-travelwise-why-are-finns-so-happy

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

Finland?

In my opinion, the USA is too big for the government to be able to handle. Too many difference situations for once government to be able to cater to everyone.

 

[Keef]

In my opinion, the USA is too big for the government to be able to handle. Too many difference situations for once government to be able to cater to everyone.

This is why we have various levels of government. We have the big Federal government which includes the President, Congress and the Supreme Court. Each State has their own government, the purpose of which is to better serve people of that state only as opposed to everybody in the country. Then we have local government such as cities who cater to people within that small area.

The problem stems from the fact that the Federal government is trampling over the rights of local and state governments, taking as much power for itself as it can. And people agree to it because they're dumb and don't understand how the system is supposed to work. If power was given back to local and state governments, our system would work much better and could more easily cater to the different needs of people in different areas.

While we're on the topic of more localized government, check out this recent plan to split California into separate states.

 

[Azuremen]

You dig deep? I would like to see any data of that. That was a situation in the 90s... 20 years ago. It's a myth nowadays and you should be informed before you say it. Any recent list you bring won't have any of those counties in it.

http://cooltop10s.com/top-10-countries-high-suicide/

Since 1990, suicide rates have decreased in many OECD countries, with declines of 40% or more in Denmark, Estonia, Hungary, Finland and Austria.

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/...l?itemId=/content/chapter/factbook-2013-97-en

Denmark, Finland, Sweden have a decrease of 50-40% of suicide rates from 1990-2010.

That is great and all, but I never said Finland was top ten nor mentioned any lists in regard to suicide. I said they had a high rate of suicide, and as of 2012 it is still higher than much of Europe's and the USA's. OECD Figures for 2011 put Finland at around 16 per 100,000 while the US is at 12 per 100,000. Much of Europe is lower than Finland as well, and while it isn't a massive margin compared to 20 years ago, it is curious for a country that people claim everyone is so happy in.

While we're on the topic of more localized government, check out this recent plan to split California into separate states.

If this gets much traction, I can see Washington State following with an East-West split. The Cascades geographically and politically split the state, along with very different economic ends as well.

 

[Liquid]

Not to be a deliberate snarker, but wouldn't creating six (possibly eight with Washington) states be futile given the disrespect for non-Federal governance?

Of course, I appreciate that's not the point but is it not possible that creating more states will just create six new centres for the Feds to take power away from?

 

[Keef]

If this gets much traction, I can see Washington State following with an East-West split. The Cascades geographically and politically split the state, along with very different economic ends as well.

I can see it happening in New York and Illinois at well. Especially in Illinois, you have Chicago and then the rest of the state which has completely different needs. It's not like Ohio where we have at least 6 reasonably large cities in Cincinnati, Dayton, Toledo, Columbus, Akron and Cleveland.

Not to be a deliberate snarker, but wouldn't creating six (possibly eight with Washington) states be futile given the disrespect for non-Federal governance?

Of course, I appreciate that's not the point but is it not possible that creating more states will just create six new centres for the Feds to take power away from?

When it comes to being power hungry, California has the Feds covered. It would actually be better no knock it down a notch and give the Feds a piece of the pie.

 

[Liquid]

And then there'd no longer be the claim that "California's" economy is larger than x number of countries'.

So, in your opinions my dear Americans, how many states could or should there be, if splitting up the current 50 was doable?

 

[Keef]

And then there'd no longer be the claim that "California's" economy is larger than x number of countries'.

So, in your opinions my dear Americans, how many states could or should there be, if splitting up the current 50 was doable?

We don't claim that, California does. They're full of themselves anyway.

California needs split due to it's few concentrated and expensive population centers contrasting with a vast agricultural area and vast rural desert area. @Azuremen has more insight on why Washington would benefit because of its different cultures split by the mountains. Illinois would benefit because the vast majority of the state is similar except for the Chicago metro area. New York state would probably benefit if the City split as it's well known that NYC politics have almost nothing to do with the state - NYC and the capitol Albany are always butting heads. I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

If there's 6 in Cali and two each from Washington, Illinois and New York, that makes 8 more than we have now.

 

[FoolKiller]

A collection of highlights from Rand Paul's CPAC speech.

We won't trade our liberty for security, not now, not ever!

 

[BobK]

We won't trade our liberty for security, not now, not ever!

Much as I agree with the sentiment, I'm afraid exactly that has been happening for a while now (with a huge impetus after 9/11/2001). Unfortunately I see it continuing.

 

[TenEightyOne]

A collection of highlights from Rand Paul's CPAC speech.

I love it when he calls a phone a "fooooon"

This guy's always been a bit mad, he's a good speaker but he doesn't seem too much different from many silver-spoon politicians with no idea of what real people go through. His voting record seems to show him against much of 'general' society too.

It's a funny video but not one of his best, in some of his speeches he really talks about liberty and justice as if they're the same thing - even crazier than this one.

 

[FoolKiller]

I love it when he calls a phone a "fooooon"

This guy's always been a bit mad, he's a good speaker but he doesn't seem too much different from many silver-spoon politicians with no idea of what real people go through. His voting record seems to show him against much of 'general' society too.

I stood on our state capital's steps with him the day he filed to run for the Senate. I agree with him and much of his voting record. The point of a constitutional republic is to defend the minority from an oppressive majority, and the individual is the greatest minority.

If general society is robbing Peter to pay Paul, accepting that our president is currently contemplating the best way to kill an American citizen without due process, and saying that a property owner's property rights are up for debate then count me out.

And that's a Kentucky/Texan accent mix. He sounds eloquent compared to some in this state.

By the way, did you know that as an ophthalmologist he would voluntarily perform eye surgery on the poor? See, he doesn't hate general society. He doesn't believe it should be done by force of law.

After-all, what good is a civil society that is only civil because they fear the guns of the police?

 

[TenEightyOne]

If general society is robbing Peter to pay Paul, accepting that our president is currently contemplating the best way to kill an American citizen without due process

Sounds like saying murder is okay with due process... but then that would mean that all men were not created equal.

I'm not sure offering to publicly do some treatments for free really did Rand Paul many favours, it got widespread publicity and helped highlight to the world that the Republicans were still blocking free healthcare for US citizens, which is pretty bad by any modern country's standards. It was a badly-timed publicity stunt, or so it seemed.

 

[FoolKiller]

Sounds like saying murder is okay with due process... but then that would mean that all men were not created equal.

I'm not sure offering to publicly do some treatments for free really did Rand Paul many favours, it got widespread publicity and helped highlight to the world that the Republicans were still blocking free healthcare for US citizens, which is pretty bad by any modern country's standards. It was a badly-timed publicity stunt, or so it seemed.

Due process, a trial by jury. It does not guarantee a death penalty. Obama is contemplating killing without even knowing if he is guilty.

Badly timed? He did it throughout his entire career. A badly timed publicity stunt repeated annually for over a decade? Huh?