America - The Official Thread

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Dennisch
But how on earth can someone like that be elected?
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Americans generally do not require a legitimate resume for electing officials to public office. I mean, if we did, Obama's would look ridiculous. Americans generally require only that the candidate parrot what they think on a few key issues, issues which do not need to have any bearing on the particular office that the person is running for.
 
It's just wrong. Nothing else. Those are the people who run your country.
I seriously can get upset about this. :lol:
 
Dennisch
It's just wrong. Nothing else. Those are the people who run your country.
I seriously can get upset about this. :lol:
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I mean... look at Hilary Clinton. Her qualification before running for congress was being the wife of Bill Clinton. She spent half a second in congress and ran for president and was taken seriously. Being someone's wife was enough to get her elected to Congress*, and those two were enough to get her considered for President. That's America.

*She's also a lawyer
 
American elections are basically a pick your favorite moron test.

Right now Kentucky has Mitch McConnell and Alison Lundergren Grimes running for Senate.

Based on the ads you would think it is a "Do you like Obama's policies?" poll. My phone won't stop ringing and I'm pretty sure I have caught both of them violating election rules.

I'm considering getting a "Vote Third Party" sign for my yard. Maybe even make a giant one.
 
FoolKiller
Based on the ads you would think it is a "Do you like Obama's policies?" poll.
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Same in Colorado. "So and so supported Obamacare!", oh yea, well "So and so was against Obamacare!". I haven't even bothered to learn their names - that's how checked out I am. I do love the reference to the president's policies given that they aren't running for president. It's not the same office, it's not relevant*!


* Of course it actually is relevant given how often the president does congress's job for them (obamacare for example). But it shouldn't be relevant.
 
@Danoff Officially they are not relevant.

In reality, well, it's basically whatever the party in charge says it is.
 
I know I mentioned it before in here. In the case of the man shot in Walmart by police because they felt threatened by the air soft gun he had picked up on the shelf to purchase, the cops were not indicted by a grand jury.
http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-law/walmart-shooting-reactions/nhTKp/?__federated=1

Sounds like it might have been a misunderstanding or whatever. Well, except that open carry is legal so police had zero reason to react to a gun with lethal force unless the guy did something stupid, which police claimed.

Then the autopsy showed that he had been shot in the side and back. Police stuck to their defense.

Now that they are past being charged the surveillance video finally gets released. I am linking it but not embedding it because you see the man get shot. You can watch the whole video to see the actions he took during his entire shopping trip or jump to about 1:15 to start watching just before police walk in. At roughly 1:28 you hear police yell something like, "Put it down" and by 1:30 John Crawford is on the floor due to gunshot wounds. I can see no "threatening action" taken by Crawford. He didn't even get fully turned to see what was going on.


And another murdering cop goes free after a long, paid vacation.
 
FoolKiller
***In the case of the man shot in Walmart by police because they felt threatened by the air soft gun he had picked up on the shelf to purchase, the cops were not indicted by a grand jury.

Sounds like it might have been a misunderstanding or whatever. Well, except that open carry is legal so police had zero reason to react to a gun with lethal force unless the guy did something stupid, which police claimed.
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I had been following this case since I saw a couple of interviews with the subject's parents lawyers. From their discussion, it sounded like the man wasn't doing anything in the store other than holding the gun and looking at it from various angles, and they didn't understand how this would have been considered "dangerous" to the police or to the other customers in the Walmart store.

Now that we can see the video, its pretty apparent that the man that was shot wasn't doing anything at all unusual with the rifle. And it was an air gun, so it wasn't all that dangerous to begin with!!

The Grand Jury seems to have decided that the responding officers "acted within their training".

Poor training if you ask me.

A tragedy for the family.:(

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
FoolKiller
I know I mentioned it before in here. In the case of the man shot in Walmart by police because they felt threatened by the air soft gun he had picked up on the shelf to purchase, the cops were not indicted by a grand jury.
http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-law/walmart-shooting-reactions/nhTKp/?__federated=1

Sounds like it might have been a misunderstanding or whatever. Well, except that open carry is legal so police had zero reason to react to a gun with lethal force unless the guy did something stupid, which police claimed.

Then the autopsy showed that he had been shot in the side and back. Police stuck to their defense.

Now that they are past being charged the surveillance video finally gets released. I am linking it but not embedding it because you see the man get shot. You can watch the whole video to see the actions he took during his entire shopping trip or jump to about 1:15 to start watching just before police walk in. At roughly 1:28 you hear police yell something like, "Put it down" and by 1:30 John Crawford is on the floor due to gunshot wounds. I can see no "threatening action" taken by Crawford. He didn't even get fully turned to see what was going on.

And another murdering cop goes free after a long, paid vacation.
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But he was doing something with the rifle, twice. Once at timestamp 8;23 and then again during the 911 call. Also, he wasn't practicing safe gun handling techniques, which is asking for trouble.

One more thing, my mother has worked at wal-mart in the past, and I can tell you from seeing a sale first hand that any firearm purchases from BB guns on up to actual rifles, must be conducted at the firearms counter at the Sporting goods department. This guy got what was coming to him by flinging it around like a toy.
 
Sanji Himura
But he was doing something with the rifle, twice. Once at timestamp 8;23 and then again during the 911 call. Also, he wasn't practicing safe gun handling techniques, which is asking for trouble.
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It wasn't a real gun, nor did he own one. No training is required to handle a non-lethal toy. He made no actions toward the cops to make them feel intimidated as they claimed.

One more thing, my mother has worked at wal-mart in the past, and I can tell you from seeing a sale first hand that any firearm purchases from BB guns on up to actual rifles, must be conducted at the firearms counter at the Sporting goods department.
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And I will assume absolutely no one takes them up front without knowing this rule? I didn't know this rule.

This guy got what was coming to him by flinging it around like a toy.
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It was a toy.

That aside, you believe someone deserves to die for doing nothing illegal, but not considered smart? By that rationale we should just kill roughly 75% of the population, and definitely 100% of teens.

Honestly, that statement is bordering on offensive.


Oh, I just saw this on Facebook. This guy was obeying the cop and grabbing his license. I guess he got what was coming to him too for not wearing his license.
(non-fatal shooting)

In this case the officer has been fired and a criminal investigation is taking place.
 
What the hell happened in that Wall mart video??
The guy is just standing there, and then POLICE, and they immediately open fire.
 
Sanji Himura
But he was doing something with the rifle, twice. Once at timestamp 8;23 and then again during the 911 call. Also, he wasn't practicing safe gun handling techniques, which is asking for trouble.

One more thing, my mother has worked at wal-mart in the past, and I can tell you from seeing a sale first hand that any firearm purchases from BB guns on up to actual rifles, must be conducted at the firearms counter at the Sporting goods department. This guy got what was coming to him by flinging it around like a toy.
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He did absolutely nothing wrong.

The gun in question was a product sold by Walmart, freely accessible to anyone off the shelf, and is not a real firearm: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crosman-MK-177-Tactical-Air-Rifle-Black/27254978

And the Police didn't even give a chance to comply with their orders; mainly because they didn't even issue any order to drop the pellet gun. They just shot him.

Not only that, but, right after, some one strolls right through the front door after the shooting (guy with long hair and hat). Great job securing the scene....
 
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Dennisch
What the hell happened in that Wall mart video??
The guy is just standing there, and then POLICE, and they immediately open fire.
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This guy called 911. As you can see, he described the guy as pointing the gun at everyone and giving him the belief that the guy was looking to shoot someone.

Officers reacted to the 911 caller and not their own visual evidence.
 
FoolKiller
This guy called 911. As you can see, he described the guy as pointing the gun at everyone and giving him the belief that the guy was looking to shoot someone.

Officers reacted to the 911 caller and not their own visual evidence.
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Interesting that this "eyewitness" said there were 4 cops and not the 2 you actually see on the video.
 
Sanji Himura
This guy got what was coming to him by flinging it around like a toy.
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Definitely not.

What the police should have done is initiate a standoff, not just shoot him. Police don't really seem to use the standoff technique anymore, they just go in guns blazing.
 
BobK
Seriously, dude, you may want to re-think that.
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I may have come across as a bit heartless(I was angry with my father at the time for a separate issue), but the point is that you don't treat something that can fire projectiles that could hurt you like you would a nerf toy as this man has done. That is basic firearm rules that you should have been taught as a child. It wasn't the fact that he had the gun that got him killed, it was the fact that he was playing with it like a NERF toy that drew attention to himself.
 
Sanji Himura
I may have come across as a bit heartless(I was angry with my father at the time for a separate issue), but the point is that you don't treat something that can fire projectiles that could hurt you like you would a nerf toy as this man has done. That is basic firearm rules that you should have been taught as a child. It wasn't the fact that he had the gun that got him killed, it was the fact that he was playing with it like a NERF toy that drew attention to himself.
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...and if you see someone doing it then they deserve to die?

really?
 
Of course not, but there was only one 911 call. The police had to react to the information that was available to them. If the information said that he was a threat, how else would the police would react?
 
Sanji Himura
Of course not, but there was only one 911 call. The police had to react to the information that was available to them. If the information said that he was a threat, how else would the police would react?
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How about if the police evaluate the situation before letting loose a fulsilade of bullets?

How about it the police actually determine the facts first and determine if the man was actually shooting at anyone, (or if he was just walking around the store with a BB gun that he was thinking of purchasing)?

Sanji Himura
but the point is that you don't treat something that can fire projectiles that could hurt you like you would a nerf toy as this man has done.
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As a teenager, I worked at a tennis club that had a machine that would fire projectiles:eek:(tennis balls).

Sometimes, when there weren't any other tennis players around, me and a friend of mine would use the machine to fire projectiles (tennis balls) in all directions.:mischievous:

Would our use of this projectile machine warrant police action, and maybe get us "terminated with extreme prejudice"?:ouch::D

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
This situation is pretty cut and dry. Someone called 911 and reported inaccurate information, police shot first and asked questions later and someone died. As far as saying, "don't treat something that shoots projectiles as a nerf gun" police could have shot the guy if he had actually had a nerf gun that day based on improper following of protocol and the inaccurate information from the 911 caller. I realize that is far fetched but it could have had the same end result. The kid never really had a chance. These things happen and it's to be expected sometimes, but this sort of thing is happening a lot.
 
Sanji Himura
but the point is that you don't treat something that can fire projectiles that could hurt you like you would a nerf toy as this man has done.
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So now it is only your specific definition of toy guns as "Nerf guns" that counts now? Are you defining which toys count as worth being justifiably shot over?

Fact is, he had a toy. A toy people shoot each other with in backyards all across America. It was not a lethal weapon.

And a Nerf can hurt you too. Take one Nerf dart to the eye and you learn that. Water guns can hurt you.
That is basic firearm rules that you should have been taught as a child. It wasn't the fact that he had the gun that got him killed, it was the fact that he was playing with it like a NERF toy that drew attention to himself.
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How dare he treat a toy like a toy. If an airsoft gun should be treated exactly as a lethal gun then law enforcement agencies across the country are mishandling them.
2012 GBB airsoft technology became adopted by US federal and state institutions as an affordable and reliable training tool. The GBB guns allowed for correct weapons manipulation and training for a fraction of the cost of conventional conversion kits that used UTMs and Sim rounds. The Airsoft guns are also safer for training allowing for basic and advanced shooter training in a safer environment by reducing the risks of injury or death from a negligent discharge.
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Sanji Himura
Of course not, but there was only one 911 call. The police had to react to the information that was available to them. If the information said that he was a threat, how else would the police would react?
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A huge part of police action should be information gathering before taking action. If they had taken proper surveillance or given him an order from cover this entire thing could have been avoided. Instead they swung around the corner with guns at the ready and fired within mere seconds of identifying their victim suspect. Going purely on the 911 call without proper evidence is negligent and stupid.


But this is the new trend in law enforcement. They react to third party information without using surveillance to gather evidence first. This is how innocent people get shot and grenades wind up in baby cribs only to find the suspect isn't even on the premises. The way these cops acted could have resulted in a civilian being shot if they were just out of sight.

The better question is, can you justify lethal action as a first resort within seconds of spotting their target?
 
Sanji Himura
Of course not, but there was only one 911 call. The police had to react to the information that was available to them. If the information said that he was a threat, how else would the police would react?
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By protecting and serving. Starting with the guy accused of what's apparently a capital crime with no evidence...
 

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