America - The Official Thread

[TenEightyOne]

Most of these school shootings used to be street shootings.

This one seems to be lover-spurned in hormone-driven youth, would it change the weight of the outcome in a street setting rather than a schoolyard? Sadly I think it would certainly be less appealing to the news channels...

 

[FoolKiller]

This one seems to be lover-spurned in hormone-driven youth, would it change the weight of the outcome in a street setting rather than a schoolyard? Sadly I think it would certainly be less appealing to the news channels...

A large portion of the school shooting statistics are personal fights. It inflates the number that people associate with something like Columbine.

If it was on the street or at their home it wouldn't be less sad, but their would be less bystanders.

 

[Scaff]

America.

On behalf of the sane majority of the UK I would like to publicly apologize for the fact that the far right muppets in 'Britain First' have managed to export themselves to the US.



Have fun with a British brand of racism hiding behind populist noise.

 

[DK]

All of the Britain First admins should be ashamed of themselves, not just the person who posted that on Facebook.

I wouldn't be surprised if "America First"'s members like to dress in white gowns and hoods.

 

[Dotini]

All of the Britain First admins should be ashamed of themselves, not just the person who posted that on Facebook.

I wouldn't be surprised if "America First"'s members like to dress in white gowns and hoods.

Certainly Britain First admins should be ashamed of themselves. Maybe all Britons should be.

But I disagree with your other statement. We have no "America First" party. The closest thing we have to it are the Libertarians who want to stay out of war and debt. If you can convince me that working people who want decent jobs, want to pay their debts, and want to raise a traditional family are ipso facto racists, then I will pronounce you Azor Ahai reborn.

 

[Scaff]

Certainly Britain First admins should be ashamed of themselves.

For many reasons

Maybe all Britons should be.

Why? That would infer that all Britons shared the same opinion as BF do, which is most certainly not true.

But I disagree with your other statement. We have no "America First" party.

I didn't say you did and nor did DK?

The closest thing we have to it are the Libertarians who want to stay out of war and debt.

Which is nothing like the BF/AF group (is this word OK for you? I'm not sure of the collective term for a gathering of bigots, maybe a Klan?), as such I would suggest you gain a better understanding of exactly what these people support before you disagree with something I didn't say.

Do Libertarians force religion on others? Do they invade places of worship because its the wrong 'brand'? Do they openly post racist, intolerant and anti-Semitic rants, calling for the murder of immigrants on social media? Do they align themselves with the memories of dead service men on ballot papers against the wishes of the soldiers family? Do they cash in and profit by misleading the public in regard to support for veterans groups?

Now I know the answer to all of these questions, and its no in every case, as such the closest thing you have is not the Libertarians at all; but well done for falling for BF/AF's populism noise at the first marker.

If you can convince me that working people who want decent jobs, want to pay their debts, and want to raise a traditional family are ipso facto racists, then I will pronounce you Azor Ahai reborn.

Sorry but what in the name of curly fries are you going on about?

 

[Dotini]

Why? That would infer that all Britons shared the same opinion as BF do, which is most certainly not true.

Well, you have violated my rule of no multi-quotes. But as a friendly, not to mention whimsical, gesture, I'll answer one.

Clearly BF'ers should be ashamed. Who does that leave?
Liberals should be ashamed because by definition they feel guilty about something.
Labour should be ashamed because of Tony Blair.
Tories should be ashamed because they think it's shameful to be impoverished.

 

[Scaff]

Well, you have violated my rule of no multi-quotes. But as a friendly, not to mention whimsical, gesture, I'll answer one.

Odd! I wasn't aware that you set the rules here at GT Planet?

No rule about multi-quotes exists, its simply a case that you do not like them, that unfortunately doesn't mean they can't be used.

Clearly BF'ers should be ashamed. Who does that leave?
Liberals should be ashamed because by definition they feel guilty about something.
Labour should be ashamed because of Tony Blair.
Tories should be ashamed because they think it's shameful to be impoverished.

A rather poor argument that totally ignores the point being made, but I find it interesting that you picked this point to respond to.

 

[Dotini]

Which is nothing like the BF/AF group (is this word OK for you?

No, this is not okay with me.

I deny that the Britain First party can be equated with an amorphous "America first" set who think the phrase means to stay out of war and debt. You seem to think that an America first'er means to be a Klansman. You are very wrong.

 

[Scaff]

No, this is not okay with me.

What exactly isn't OK?

Your posting today is quite frankly incoherent. You are attributing things to people that they clearly didn't say, your making links between groups (a generic collective term - don't read anything into it) that no one has suggested and your doing it inaccurately, all the while attempting to define new rules for the site based on your own preferences.

So exactly what is it that you are not OK with? As right now I don't have a clue.

Edited to add - That's because you have the wrong America First, checking what I am actually referring to before flying off the handle would be a really good idea next time. But you at least now get the idea of the kind of hi-jack stunts these people pull.

 

[DK]

Whoa, this escalated quickly. I just had my suspicions about a group called "America First" supporting those racist Neanderthals in BF.

 

[Scaff]

Whoa, this escalated quickly. I just had my suspicions about a group called "America First" supporting those racist Neanderthals in BF.

And you would be right. AF have been set up by BF, they are effectively one and the same.

 

[Dotini]

And you would be right. AF have been set up by BF, they are effectively one and the same.

Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee

 

[Scaff]

Wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee

Wrong America First (the one you claim it to be hasn't existed since 1941).

https://www.facebook.com/AmericaFirstGroup

 

[Dotini]

Wrong America First (the one you claim it to be hasn't existed since 1941).

https://www.facebook.com/AmericaFirstGroup

Whether by accident or by design, you are tarnishing a cherished American tradition - the peace and antiwar tradition. So learn and respect American history, or please stay out of the thread.

PS: I pay no attention to Facebook.

 

[Scaff]

Whether by accident or by design, you are tarnishing a cherished American tradition - the peace and antiwar tradition. So learn and respect American history, or please stay out of the thread.

I'm not tarnishing anything, Britain First are!

I am simply pointing out what they are doing, if you want to take issue with the way they are acting then become involved and actively campaign against them (as I do in the UK against Britain First).

As such you both a million miles wide of that mark and making accusations against me that have no basis at all, so no I will not stay out of this thread because you are incapable of understanding the point.

I did not call the American wing of BF 'America First' they did, so getting pissed off at me is utterly asinine.

This 'hijack' of established symbols is quite normal for them, in the UK they have attempted to do the exact same with the poppy, which is the symbol of the Royal British Legion (who raise funds for veterans and help support them and their families). Using the poppy as a symbol on pins, etc to raise money for BF and not giving a penny to the Royal British Legion.

Blaming me for tarnishing the original America First is like blaming me for BF using the poppy, it makes no sense and is simply inaccurate and quite frankly offensive.

Oh and do not tell members in which threads and on which topic they can post, that's the second time today you have made your own rules for GTP, do not do it again.

PS: I pay no attention to Facebook.

That you are unwilling to educate yourself in regard to a threat against a tradition you claim to respect is not my issue, but it should be yours.

 

[Keef]

Whether by accident or by design, you are tarnishing a cherished American tradition - the peace and antiwar tradition. So learn and respect American history, or please stay out of the thread.

PS: I pay no attention to Facebook.

Come on Dotini, even I'm not that cocky.

American First Committee is very different than some ridiculous America First Group Facebook fan page @Scaff . AFC has been around a long time. AFG, the one you're referring to, is the one you say is similar to BF.

We've had anti-Muslim sentiment in the US since roundabout 9/11 I'd say and there are indeed people who think they should all be gotten rid of before they take over the country. As the views of BF don't reflect Britain as a whole, nor do those of AFG reflect those of America as a whole. The main difference between the two that myself and Dotini are now the only reasonable people in America who actually know what AFG is. I wouldn't worry about them.

Now, for my turn at being a cocky American. I know there are many Americans who don't like Muslims. However, I know that there are many Europeans who hate Muslims. I feel anti-Muslim sentiment is alarmingly strong throughout Europe. That sort of racism isn't just among the people but it exists quite clearly on the political stage as well, to the point where some of the countries (France, I'm looking at you. And thanks for the statue, suckers) have enacted laws obviously aimed at Muslims. Unlike over here where it's not really a think, it kinda seems to be a thing over in Europe. Might wanna check it before it gets outta hand.

EDIT: As a humorous aside, I actually think that anti-French sentiment is stronger in parts of the US than anti-Muslim sentiment. I find that hilarious.

 

[Scaff]

AFC has been around a long time.

I know and I expect that AFG (as they will now be known) may well try and use potential confusion to their advantage.

AFG, the one you're referring to, is the one you say is similar to BF.

Not just similar, they are the same core organisation, a fact they have been boasting about here in the UK for the last few days. Keeping an eye on both FB pages (as I do) the link is blindingly obvious. It is, with hindsight, an inevitable results, as the number of Americans who share BF's and were posting on the BF facebook was growing. As such a US based version will allow them to try and spread the reach they have and use it as a route to gain more funds.

On that last point, @Dotini you want to get angry in regard to something, get ready for AFG trying to raise funds to support a far, far right agenda and having no problem with it being confused with AFC. After all BF used a murdered soldiers name on a ballot paper to try and gain votes against the specific wishes of his family, and try and generate confusion around the poppy to line their own pockets at the expense of the Royal British Legion and the people they help.

I don't blame you for getting upset/angry/etc about it, but aiming that at me and attempting to blame me for it is way out of order and targeting totally to wrong person.

Oh and in case you still don't believe me @Dotini :

https://www.britainfirst.org/britain-first-american-activists-launch-america-first/

 

[Dotini]

I am unwilling to allow the peace and antiwar movement, originally known as America First, and continuously associated with the beloved Libertarian movement (and Taft wing of the Republican party) to be tarnished as racists. But I am also unwilling to join Facebook. It is not my job to police Facebook, or stop Newspeak. It's the job of today's youth.

I marched in the 60's civil rights movement, protested the Vietnam war, banged the drum against the WTO in Seattle '99, and shouted myself hoarse against GW's war in Iraq. My peace and justice conscience is clear. But now I am finished with all that idealism. Nothing today satisfies so much as 3 per week fencing lessons, often followed by a good India Pale Ale while watching Game of Thrones.

PS: Fencing is a lot like dancing or playing music. You must be in tune and in step with your "dancing" partner, otherwise the result is less than aesthetic. The same can be said of conversational skills.

 

[DK]

I sincerely doubt that Britain First's leaders knew about the original America First.

 

[Liquid]

Two groups with similar names but different goals. It's a damn coincidence. This new, second American First is a direct spinoff of a group called Britain First.

 

[Scaff]

Oh it is almost certainly a coincidence, all I'm saying is that if AF follow BFs lead (and that's very likely) then they will do nothing to avoid confusion if it benefits them.

 

[Liquid]

Precisely. For this new AF, it'll be a happy coincidence if they can capitalise on the fact that a nice group already happens to share the same name without doing anything about it.

 

[Keef]

Two groups with similar names but different goals. It's a damn coincidence. This new, second American First is a direct spinoff of a group called Britain First.

America First Group.

Oh it is almost certainly a coincidence, all I'm saying is that if AF follow BFs lead (and that's very likely) then they will do nothing to avoid confusion if it benefits them.

AFG.

Precisely. For this new AF, it'll be a happy coincidence if they can capitalise on the fact that a nice group already happens to share the same name without doing anything about it.

AFG.

If you guys keep referring to this group by the name of another group then you're going to be part of the confusion problem. Considering the fact that we have two similarly named organizations representing two completely different sides of the political spectrum we need to be careful about the names we use. It's not a matter of semantics either because these are proper names.

EDIT: Given the fact that you guys are discussing something which Google apparently doesn't know exists, I can't actually be sure it is a proper name and therefore it's that much more important you don't use a name associated with somebody else.

That said, I browsed through their Facebook page and the entire thing seems based on an anti-Muslim ideal. They wouldn't like living in the Midwest then because Muslim immigrants are all over the place in just the last 5-10 years. Can't blame them either because it's relatively inexpensive and there are lots of work opportunities.

 

[Scaff]

@Dotini You will be pleased to know (as I am) that Americans are already taking issue with the potential naming confusion.


If they follow standard MO, this post will be deleted and the poster blocked.

 

[Keef]

I didn't block them yet because I want to see what they say to me.

 

[Dennisch]

USians, what's the deal with Florida arresting the old man handing out food to the homeless?

 

[FoolKiller]

USians, what's the deal with Florida arresting the old man handing out food to the homeless?

If the government can't make a profit off of it they make it illegal.

The official story is that by being outdoors it is a public nuisance as a gathering without a permit and they are serving food without a proper license. If I read the town ordinance correctly it would be allowed if they had an indoor venue.

The thing is that the way it is written and enforced only affects programs like this. A family reunion or a birthday party at the same park with the same number of people is completely legal.

This isn't the first city in Florida to do this kind of thing this year. Daytona Beach busted up a similar event in the spring.

I'm not saying that it is just Florida, but I seem to hear about them more. I am suspecting that this is an issue regarding appearances in tourist destinations. You don't want tourists seeing a huge gathering of homeless people. Cities have been known to send out police to either run homeless off or temporarily put them in jail shelter overnight during special events. Ultimately, what it comes down to is outlawing homelessness, going beyond vagrancy laws.

 

[Omnis]

Most homeless people in ft. lauderdale that ask for money are going to use it for drugs or alcohol. There is a huge salvation army center where they can always get a meal.

Feeding the homeless outside is against the law because it's hot as hell most of the time and food can spoil. It's not so much about outlawing homelessness or charity. It's more about sanitation and safety. It's more of a secondary law to comply with laws already there for food service and public health.

 

[FoolKiller]

Most homeless people in ft. lauderdale that ask for money are going to use it for drugs or alcohol.

Good thing they aren't giving them money.

There is a huge salvation army center where they can always get a meal.

Does the Salvation Army then invite them to church services where they can receive both religious guidance and personal help from concerned individuals?

Feeding the homeless outside is against the law because it's hot as hell most of the time and food can spoil. It's not so much about outlawing homelessness or charity. It's more about sanitation and safety. It's more of a secondary law to comply with laws already there for food service and public health.

But if it were a birthday party or a family reunion you are more than welcome to cause food poisoning? Either they don't like the homeless or happy families.

That might be the official story, but I don't buy it. This seems like a more plausible reality.


Whatever the reasons, I see one trend here. The government looks at something and says, "we know the way this should be handled. It is one way and it works for everyone. We shall make any other ways illegal." It's what they do with banking, schools, media, etc. At the end of the day it is government being government.