America - The Official Thread

[zzz_pt]

If Darren Wilson did his job and only his job and if he followed the "protocol" and did nothing wrong, how does the decision of removing him definitely from the Police fits?

What his mother and father do or don't do is irrelevant for the case. Or do you think that the lives of people who have "bad" parents (I don't know them so I can't claim that) are expandable? We don't judge anyone by their family or friends. If his parents were rich and highly educated would you bring them to the conversation? I guess not. That has nothing to do with anything. It's a red herring. Would you bring the parents of a blck guy who killed a police officer if he had been raped, abused by his family? No. So why would you bring it up in this case? Do you know DW's parents or just because a guy is a police officer he soemhow is exempt of that same judgement?

There are eyewitnesses (for example the ones in the video of 2 construction workers) who saw MB surrender and they weren't that far from the scene. On the other hand, you have Police, the Presecuter and Darren Wilson condtraticting themselves.

You seem to take every single DW's word as true. Even when he condradicts himself, his Chief and facts.
___


Another black man shot trying rushing to save his dauther


"Worse" than that, this new case of a 12yo being shot dead like an animal is sickening.

 

[Joel]

Police are almost always put on indefinite leave any time they use their gun on duty.

 

[zzz_pt]

I like the way you frased it.


With presecutors like these Darren Wilson never really needed a defense lawyer.

 

[Dotini]

"Worse" than that, this new case of a 12yo being shot dead like an animal is sickening.

THIS is the case everyone should be protesting about. Unlike the giant thug Brown, the poor little victim is more saint than sinner.

The police car slides to a halt on the grass of a park, and within 1.5 seconds, the little boy is gunned down. If the media and the people are unable to create a cause celebre from this, they should seek a new hobby.

 

[TexRex]

Glad I don't live in downtown Austin.

 

[BobK]

@zzz_pt, you do know that many of those "eyewitnesses" have admitted in court they lied when first questioned, right? And that a few of them even admitted to have not even been there when the shooting took place?

Also, do you have any evidence of Wilson's contradictions in his testimony other than some youtube video?

 

[TexRex]

The police car slides to a halt on the grass of a park, and within 1.5 seconds, the little boy is gunned down. If the media and the people are unable to create a cause celebre from this, they should seek a new hobby.

You missed some steps: 911 call is made, indicating a child waving a handgun [said to possibly be a toy by caller] around while meandering through a public park; dispatch fails to relay the possibility to officers responding; officers see child with handgun lacking that which typically indicates a toy (see below).

Should an attempt to convince the child to drop said handgun have been made? ABSOLUTELY!!! Did responding officers fear harm to bystanders and/or themselves? ABSOLUTELY!!!

 

[zzz_pt]

@zzz_pt, you do know that many of those "eyewitnesses" have admitted in court they lied when first questioned, right? And that a few of them even admitted to have not even been there when the shooting took place?

Also, do you have any evidence of Wilson's contradictions in his testimony other than some youtube video?

So you dismiss all eyewitnesses because some of them lied or were inconsistent?

The "some youtube videos" contain Darren Wilson's, Chielf's Police of St. Louis, Prosecutor's and other people's speeches/interviews/etc and some of them (videos) point out their contradictions and flat out lies. You'd know this if you'd watch them. This entire case is a joke.

BTW, Darren Wilson could have said whatever he wanted because from the 2 people involved one is dead. And even in this case, he contradicted himself and his Chief police. What garuantees do you have that DW is saying the truth?

Funny how the prosecutor for this case is a person with close and extended family related to St. Louis Police (various members were police officers) and his father as well who was shot by a black man when he was only 12.

If I was living in USA I'd be worried about the system and particularly the way the police works and acts depending on the color of the person they are dealing with. It's bad for everyone, not only the minorities.

Michael Brown wasn't an angel but I don't buy Darren's "testimony". Because is a white guy in a blue uniform?


@Dotini Yes, I agreed. That case is far more perplexing and obscene.

 

[Famine]

Should an attempt to convince the child to drop said handgun have been made? ABSOLUTELY!!! Did responding officers fear harm to bystanders and/or themselves? ABSOLUTELY!!!

Is open carry legal in Cleveland? ABSOLUTELY!!! Is extrajudicially executing a child for performing an act an adult would be wholly permitted to do out of fear? Absolutely not.

Or even if it isn't, if someone is 12 and apparently doing something entirely legal for an 18 year old to do, posing no public danger of any kind and, as it later turns out, is carrying a toy anyway and no-one was ever in any danger of any kind. They can kill you then too.

So it turns out that the police can shoot to kill if they think you might be a threat based on no other information, like if you actually are one. I've no idea when extrajudicial execution became an acceptable norm. Look out, it's coming right for us...


Police are supposed to protect rights. They're supposed to be the barrier between citizens and criminals and they're supposed to put themselves in harm's way to protect the former from the latter. Sometimes that means dying to do it, rather than taking the chance and executing an innocent civilian.

 

[TexRex]

Is open carry legal in Cleveland? ABSOLUTELY!!! Is extrajudicially executing a child for performing an act an adult would be wholly permitted to do out of fear? Absolutely not.

That's my ignorance at fault, then. I was under the impression that Ohio open carry rights applied to long guns and not handguns.

I don't think it's a failure to report in media, though. The Ferguson incident occurred earlier and caused the public to erupt both when it happened and now that there's no indictment. We should know by now that the media swoops whenever possible and it's only a matter of time before public attention turns to the newest incident.

 

[BobK]

So you dismiss all eyewitnesses because some of them lied or were inconsistent?

Of course not. Why do you ask such a bizarre question?

As for the videos, the first video simply shows people saying things like "he had his hands up" and "he was shot in the back". This has been shown to be untrue by the forensic evidence. Another video simply shows two clowns criticizing and mocking (but not pointing out contradictions in) Brown's testimony. Please don't ask me to waste my time with tripe like this.

 

[McLaren]

There are eyewitnesses (for example the ones in the video of 2 construction workers) who saw MB surrender and they weren't that far from the scene.

Title of the video:
White Construction workers witness Mike Brown being shot with hands up

This was proven by the evidence to be false.

On the other hand, you have Police, the Presecuter and Darren Wilson condtraticting themselves.

You used a panel that had a negative comment for every exert read from Wilson's testimony. How can anyone take your links seriously when they display immediate bias & read exerts out of context?

Nothing Wilson did was right in their eyes. He probably shouldn't have even been born.

So you dismiss all eyewitnesses because some of them lied or were inconsistent?

All the witnesses describing what Wilson said, described in the order Wilson described it; their words mimic his. Witnesses stating otherwise were inconsistent with each other, 1 admitting to lying, and some changing their stories. No one has dismissed all the witnesses, but how can you take Brown's witnesses' testimonies as fact when they aren't consistent; which of them is right & which is wrong? You can't tell until the evidence disproves their claims 1 by 1.

The "some youtube videos" contain Darren Wilson's, Chielf's Police of St. Louis, Prosecutor's and other people's speeches/interviews/etc and some of them (videos) point out their contradictions and flat out lies. You'd know this if you'd watch them. This entire case is a joke.

No one wants to watch a trio of idiots race bait. You act surprised.

BTW, Darren Wilson could have said whatever he wanted because from the 2 people involved one is dead. And even in this case, he contradicted himself and his Chief police. What garuantees do you have that DW is saying the truth?

Wilson had 6 people testify to what he said. The rest couldn't their story straight of what they claimed actually happen. Credibility swings to his side.

Funny how the prosecutor for this case is a person with close and extended family related to St. Louis Police (various members were police officers) and his father as well who was shot by a black man when he was only 12.

This is 9/11 conspiracy-type reaching.

If I was living in USA I'd be worried about the system and particularly the way the police works and acts depending on the color of the person they are dealing with. It's bad for everyone, not only the minorities.

You should be worried about the media. Why was there no coverage on a black officer who killed a white kid? The events happened the same way; kid didn't listen to police, lost his life.

The media is so intent on talking about an unarmed black teenager being killed by a white cop as an injustice. Why didn't they give Dillion Taylor the same coverage? He was killed 2 days after Brown. It would have provided even more ammunition against police brutality, but the media doesn't care about police brutality. It cares about you thinking Whitey is still being the Man against Blacks.

Michael Brown wasn't an angel but I don't buy Darren's "testimony". Because is a white guy in a blue uniform?

Looks like the media worked.

 

[Liquid]

I hate how that video, as @McLaren pointed out, is "White" Construction workers yadda, yadda, yadda. Many of us know this and it has been repeated often but this is exactly part of the problem; why does it matter that the construction workers are white and why bother to mention it? Apart from inciting a racial angle that isn't there, I simply don't know.

A big FU to the media and anyone who perpetuates this exclusionary attitude of pointing out differences that shouldn't matter.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I hate how that video, as @McLaren pointed out, is "White" Construction workers yadda, yadda, yadda. Many of us know this and it has been repeated often but this is exactly part of the problem; why does it matter that the construction workers are white and why bother to mention it? Apart from inciting a racial angle that isn't there, I simply don't know.

A big FU to the media and anyone who perpetuates this exclusionary attitude of pointing out differences that shouldn't matter.

It's sad but it's the way that the media keep their agenda up. To you and I those superfluous (and often unpleasant) references are usually obvious. I daresay that's true of many of our fellow forum members. It isn't true of Stupid People unfortunately, and they form a blissfully happy majority.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

I hate how that video, as @McLaren pointed out, is "White" Construction workers yadda, yadda, yadda. Many of us know this and it has been repeated often but this is exactly part of the problem; why does it matter that the construction workers are white and why bother to mention it? Apart from inciting a racial angle that isn't there, I simply don't know.

A big FU to the media and anyone who perpetuates this exclusionary attitude of pointing out differences that shouldn't matter.

I like to give off about the media as much as the next guy but to be fair with that video title there I can understand. We do not live in a world where differences like that don't matter. I'd be pretty sure there's a fair number of people out there who would discredit the testimony of an eyewitness because they are black and the victim was black. So to me it isn't inciting a racial angle but more like covering a racial angle that sadly does exist.

 

[McLaren]

Wish the media would cover this story. A 12 year old offering hugs in hope of peace when greeted by a police sgt and asked if he could have one.
http://www.wkrn.com/story/27504049/...-viral?clienttype=generic&smartdevicecgbypass

 

[Carbonox]

So, when I was browsing the interwebz, I noticed a link to a comment on a thread whose title looks very worrying, however the comment is what I'm mostly going on about here, because it definitely makes me understand just how biased the media truly can be.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/ferguson-mo/TFDJ75ESJ1BE3A2MO/p116#c2525

"real smart, why don't they protest this-7/18- Jimmie Norman, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/18- Terry Taylor, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/17- Cindy Raygoza, white female murdered by black male. No national news. 7/11- Luis Aguilar, 91 year old hispanic male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/10- Brittany Simpson, white female murdered by black male. No national news. 7/6- Sarah Goode, white female murdered by black male. No national news. 7/6- Jeffrey Westerfield, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/5- Perry Renn, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/3- Laurey Kennedy, white female still in coma from beating by black male. No national news 7/3 Eric Mollet, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/2 Rupert Anderson, white male murdered by black male. No national news. 7/2 Jennifer Kingeter, white female murdered by black male. No national news. 6/30 Jim Brennan, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/29 Paul Shephard, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/27 Shirley Barone, white female, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/27 Penelope Spencer, white female, murdered by black male. No national news; 6/27 Inga Evans, white female, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/26 Jake Rameau, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/25 Gina Burger, white female, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/24 Nathan Dasher, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/22 Jonathan Price, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/20 John Whitmore, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/18 John Yingling,white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/17 Allyn Reeves, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/15 Michael Beaver, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/11 Angela Cook, white female, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/11 Nathan Hall, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/7 Harry Briggs, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/5 Laura Bachman, white female, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/2 Robert Mohler, white male, murdered by black male. No national news. 6/1 William Headley, white male, murdered by black male. No national news"

 

[McLaren]

So, when I was browsing the interwebz, I noticed a link to a comment on a thread whose title looks very worrying, however the comment is what I'm mostly going on about here, because it definitely makes me understand just how biased the media truly can be.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/ferguson-mo/TFDJ75ESJ1BE3A2MO/p116#c2525

Have you seen the post going around supposedly written by an elderly, black war veteran who describes what he says is wrong with the black community? I can't post it here because it's extremely racist, but the guy claims to give his real name & doesn't care because he'll be dead soon.

 

[Carbonox]

Have you seen the post going around supposedly written by an elderly, black war veteran who describes what he says is wrong with the black community? I can't post it here because it's extremely racist, but the guy claims to give his real name & doesn't care because he'll be dead soon.

No, but I've seen Charles Barkley's comments on what's wrong long ago.

(This one for all of you who are curious: http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/25/c...shed-to-keep-successful-black-men-down-video/ )

I also think a black man pointing out flaws in the black community isn't exactly racist...

 

[TenEightyOne]

I also think a black man pointing out flaws in the black community isn't exactly racist...

Er... what?

 

[Carbonox]

Er... what?

Racism is generally based on false stereotypes... not much false about it if we have a guy who has first hand experience with the black community and genuinely dislikes it. Heck, as Charles Barkley says in the above ^ link, successful blacks are being kept down for being too white. Talk about blatant racism.

I'd want to see that old guy's post though before commenting on it further.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Racism is generally based on false stereotypes... not much false about it if we have a guy who has first hand experience with the black community and genuinely dislikes it. Heck, as Charles Barkley says in the above ^ link, successful blacks are being kept down for being too white. Talk about blatant racism.

I'd want to see that old guy's post though before commenting on it further.

Racism is racism no matter where it comes from; nobody can claim immunity from accusations of racism purely based on their physological or social context. And finding other people that are more racist forms no defence either.

And I couldn't find the article, but it makes no difference to the point

 

[phillgt2002]

I also think a black man pointing out flaws in the black community isn't exactly racist...

Slow down.... What the **** are you talking about? Just because I'm black doesn't mean that I can whine and bitch about my own race as much as I want. If I were to walk up to some of the other blacks in my neighborhood, they'd shut me up. Skin color is does not dismiss racism, and honestly, the only thing I find worse than racists is black people who are racist toward other black people, and trust me, after going to school in a county that has no more than a 1%/2% black population, I most definitely ran into them. I ended up hating them because they wouldn't even bother talking to me even though I had the same skin color as them.

It's a problem when blacks rant and rave about their race only to get applause by whites, Hispanics or whoever because that's all a racist person wants to hear. All it is is a person talking down about their race, which saves the other racists from having to do all of the talk. And also, some of the blacks at my high-school did this only for confirmation and acceptance from the fairer skinned peers of my school.

It's pretty pathetic.

And while I can agree with some of the things that Barkley said, just because he's black doesn't mean that he can speak for all black people.

White Construction workers witness Mike Brown being shot with hands up

I don't know what to believe about this situation anymore, although I do think that there is a right and wrong to it. Whatever Brown was doing, he should have never been doing it in the first place (the stealing, walking in the streets, whatever the **** he was doing), though, that shouldn't get him that ******** "thug" status that gets pinned on most black people who run in trouble with the law.

I hate how that video, as@McLaren pointed out, is "White" Construction workers yadda, yadda, yadda. Many of us know this and it has been repeated often but this is exactly part of the problem; why does it matter that the construction workers are white and why bother to mention it? Apart from inciting a racial angle that isn't there, I simply don't know.

A big FU to the media and anyone who perpetuates this exclusionary attitude of pointing out differences that shouldn't matter.

Well, "Black man shot for pointing carrot at police". Doesn't matter, that's just how many operate. I sure do hear "that black dude over there" more than "that white dude over there". I even say the first one more than the second, it's a problem that many have to work with, and I've been trying to work on it more because I am black and I understand that profiling anyone is wrong, though, I've grown up hearing that constantly.

 

[Carbonox]

Slow down.... What the **** are you talking about? Just because I'm black doesn't mean that I can whine and bitch about my own race as much as I want. If I were to walk up to some of the other blacks in my neighborhood, they'd shut me up.

When you say they'd shut you up, do you mean as in, violently? If so, then that's a lot worse than, uhh, "whining and bitching" about them... violence certainly never validates anyone's opposition to your opinion.

 

[phillgt2002]

I'll just let you decide when talking about what I mean. I didn't mention violence, did I?

 

[Carbonox]

I'll just let you decide when talking about what I mean. I didn't mention violence, did I?

"Shut me up" does have a violent tone to it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

"Shut me up" does have a violent tone to it.

I think you're looking for one, to be honest. Perhaps your English isn't so good but "shut up" is to simply shut one's trap. To shut someone up is therefore to do or say something to make them stop saying what they were saying.

 

[McLaren]

I also think a black man pointing out flaws in the black community isn't exactly racist...

I haven't seen what Barkley says in that link (though I have an idea based on his past explanations), but the post written by the elderly man is racist because of the repeated use of the N-word as his substitution for thugs/gangstas and that he can use the word because he lived in an age where he was called it & knows what it really used to mean. He's pointing out the flaws commonly associated with black communities, just in a very angry tone as to what black communities have become compared to what he went through.

I don't know what to believe about this situation anymore, although I do think that there is a right and wrong to it. Whatever Brown was doing, he should have never been doing it in the first place (the stealing, walking in the streets, whatever the **** he was doing), though, that shouldn't get him that ******** "thug" status that gets pinned on most black people who run in trouble with the law.

Well, "Black man shot for pointing carrot at police". Doesn't matter, that's just how many operate. I sure do hear "that black dude over there" more than "that white dude over there". I even say the first one more than the second, it's a problem that many have to work with, and I've been trying to work on it more because I am black and I understand that profiling anyone is wrong, though, I've grown up hearing that constantly.

Because I'm seeing that part of my post brought up again, I'd like to clarify that I posted the title in regards to what they said Brown was doing & was shown incorrect by the evidence presented. The race of construction workers could have been Asians for all that matters to me.

Not aimed at you phill, just clarifying again.

 

[phillgt2002]

Not aimed at you phill, just clarifying again.

Yeah, I understand. I was mainly mentioning that I can't take a side on this case. I don't think that Brown should have died, though what he was doing was wrong, Wilson should have never shot him, though he felt as if his life was endangered as a police officer. Honestly, the media + social opinions made this case more confusing than it truly is. Mainly, that is the reason why I stopped listening to many peoples opinions on this case because they tend to think that what they say is fact, though it really isn't.

Everything that happened could have been handled much better.

Also, the part about the word thug being tossed around was apart that post which I rewrote.

 

[FoolKiller]

Wish the media would cover this story. A 12 year old offering hugs in hope of peace when greeted by a police sgt and asked if he could have one.
http://www.wkrn.com/story/27504049/...-viral?clienttype=generic&smartdevicecgbypass

Policeman acts like a policeman should. Details at 11:00.



Regarding being racist against your own race: If you lump your race into one giant stereotype, yes that is wrong. Telling a certain subculture, which is predominantly associated with your race, to stop acting like that and to stop behaving in ways that feeds into stereotypes is making a commentary on a subculture. If racial images are applied to it by you then that is you prejudging. If someone talks about thug culture, is it racist?. What about taking about religious conservative homophobes? Now, what if you point out that the subculture hurts a specific race by feeding into a stereotype?

One has to be careful when discussing cultural or group behaviours. You must avoid applying it to an entire race. You also risk being considered a racist by those who would consider your words as "holding down" someone.