America - The Official Thread

[FoolKiller]

No but Wilson was attempting to shoot Brown and missed twice from within the car. In the report between Missouri V Wilson you linked, Wilson said he was in fear that the next hit could have been a fatal (unconscious at best) so he reached for his gun...
I have read it, I assume you read by linking it, so we both now Wilson's intentions were to back him off. The bullet could have easily bounced somewhere within the door panel and struck Brown's heart. Unfortunately (and I say that with reason) that didn't happen and would have made the prejudice towards Wilson little to none.

Um, he hit him once from within the car. I never said he was unjustified in reaching for his gun at that point. Please stop indicating that is what I am saying. It isn't worth discussing if you are debating a point I didn't make.

My issue is worth what happened after they were outside the car.

Your point fails to acknowledge that there is a "big freaking difference" between standing & running.

Wilson did not fire a shot at Brown while both men were standing. He fired shots whilst Brown charged. If you actually read the testimony instead of skimming through it, you'd see Wilson had no intention of letting Brown get near to begin with after being punched in the face repeatedly. He saw when Brown decided to keep heading in his direction AFTER being shot once, he knew Brown would attempt to kill/severely injure him so Wilson retreated after the first shot and Brown still rushed.

You sign your own death certificate rushing anyone who just shot you, police or civilian.

If you are trained as an offer and cannot stop a violent suspect that has put space between you and him with your belt full of non-lethal weapons get out of the job. While the threat was imminent and in his face he took the time to consist every weapon on his belt and the feasibility of using it, but when the guy put distance between them and Wilson was in a position to properly defend himself he went blank and just began shooting?

That is what Wilson testified to, that he doesn't know how many shots he fired after he got out of the car. He was freaked out and reacted in the most lethal way he had at hand. If pepper spray and a baton weren't going to be good enough in that situation then maybe he needs to reconsider leaving his tazer behind because it wasn't comfortable.

 

[SCER]

All you have to do is witness a riot in Europe vs in the US. Over there, they have nothing to lose. They constantly take on police lines head-on because they're fighting for something.

Here, these idiots light buildings on fire & rob stores because they just want to act like dumbasses. They get to act out their wildest dreams of being degenerate for one night. They couldn't care less if Brown is dead.

The only thing that pisses me off about the verdict is that it's 1 fat excuse to play the race card. Reading tweets from all these athletes like Magic Johnson or LeBron (the rest all also, unsurprisingly black) about how disappointed they are in the verdict & how suppressed black communities, yet not one of them ever comments on the other constant problems in their communities; music that views women as whores, black-on-black crime increasing, etc.

These guys make Charles Barkley look like the most intelligent politically-speaking of the bunch because to him, the issue is not whites or the govt. or whatever else. To him, these issues are coming from within' the black communities because there's no structure to guide them, or basically, a father/mother figure. And it just becomes a continuous cycle because they see as acceptable when they follow that path later on.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/11/24/darren-wilson-testimony-snippet.pdf
Edit* Wilson's testimony word-for-word. It won't change anybody's mind because the time for that is long gone, but he got shot, stumbled, and then kept going. As if that's not a big enough reason to just give up.

An unarmed black teenager is killed by a police officer and the gtp consensus (based on likes) is that the problem is black culture, the lack of mother/father figures etc.?

Truly insightful.

With statements like "They act out their wildest dreams of being degenerate for one night" and "They couldn't care less if Brown is dead" it's fairly clear that you have deeply seated, long held conclusions about black communities, and believe that even the killing of an unarmed black teenager by a police officer can be used to support them.

The UN rights chief has expressed his concerned over the 'disproportionate' killings of African-Americans by US police, Anonymous, who have hacked hundreds of KKK member accounts, have claimed to have evidence that police officer Darren Wilson has links to the KKK, but of course the problem is black culture, the lack of mother/father figures etc.

In terms of racial inequality, wealth inequality, corruption, human rights etc. the USA is fast becoming a laughing stock.

 

[Swagger897]

Um, he hit him once from within the car. I never said he was unjustified in reaching for his gun at that point. Please stop indicating that is what I am saying. It isn't worth discussing if you are debating a point I didn't make.

My issue is worth what happened after they were outside the car.

The testimony said multiple times. Wilson had been bruised on both sides of the face, scratched on his neck too (not like it really matters but it's still assault).

Anyways... if David had the choice between a rock or a gun, a big one at that, the gun would be the surefire answer to take down the giant. No one is gonna mace someone charging them in the face after already attempting to shoot them.

An unarmed black teenager is killed by a police officer and the gtp consensus (based on likes) is that the problem is black culture, the lack of mother/father figures etc.?

Truly insightful.

With statements like "They act out their wildest dreams of being degenerate for one night" and "They couldn't care less if Brown is dead" it's fairly clear that you have deeply seated, long held conclusions about black communities, and believe that even the killing of an unarmed black teenager by a police officer can be used to support them.

The UN rights chief has expressed his concerned over the 'disproportionate' killings of African-Americans by US police, Anonymous, who have hacked hundreds of KKK member accounts, have claimed to have evidence that police officer Darren Wilson has links to the KKK, but of course the problem is black culture, the lack of mother/father figures etc.

In terms of racial inequality, wealth inequality, corruption, human rights etc. the USA is fast becoming a laughing stock.

Did you skip over this part in the quote?

The only thing that pisses me off about the verdict is that it's 1 fat excuse to play the race card. Reading tweets from all these athletes like Magic Johnson or LeBron (the rest all also, unsurprisingly black) about how disappointed they are in the verdict & how suppressed black communities, yet not one of them ever comments on the other constant problems in their communities; music that views women as whores, black-on-black crime increasing, etc.

There are problems on both sides. Only one is taking the punches and not lashing back. If someone on any news/media outlet fired away on issues like the last few in the quote, they would be fired due to discrimination, and hell would rain down on them by black communities.

 

[FoolKiller]

The testimony said multiple times. Wilson had been bruised on both sides of the face, scratched on his neck too (not like it really matters but it's still assault).

Anyways... if David had the choice between a rock or a gun, a big one at that, the gun would be the surefire answer to take down the giant. No one is gonna mace someone charging them in the face after already attempting to shoot them.

Goliath was unarmed? Pretty crappy for a soldier.

 

[Swagger897]

Point being, from Wilton's perspective continuing to use his pistol was the only option for him to stay alive.
I dread saying this but the cop has more importance in life than a thug.

 

[FoolKiller]

Point being, from Wilton's perspective continuing to use his pistol was the only option for him to stay alive.
I dread saying this but the cop has more importance in life than a thug.

And as long as this goes unquestioned unarmed people shall continue to die, justifiably or not.

 

[Siren]

Point being, from Wilton's perspective continuing to use his pistol was the only option for him to stay alive.
I dread saying this but the cop has more importance in life than a thug.

First of there's no proof that MB was a "thug". Second If his only option was to use a pistol against an unarmed person charging at him (in which case you're actually trained to stop people like that which doesn't involve a gun) then he should not have tackled the situation in the first place. It seems to me that a lot of American (white) cops are like that. Shoot first ask questions later. You said he had bruises and scratches from the fight ? A friendly reminder that those images are everywhere on the internet and those bruises and scratches does NOT justify his actions of putting 6 bullets in a kid. I know legally on paper he's an adult but in society he's still a kid. What sort of training do cops go through over there ? Is there any at all ? "If they're white talk them down and cuff em. If they're black just shoot em". You said no one is gonna mace someone charging at them. Umm I'd like you to talk to a few women that carries mace with them. My mom and my sister does. They have both on multiple occasions maced someone charging at them and it has worked every time. You're saying its just another excuse to pull the race card when it is about race. What do you think would happen if a black cop shot a white teenage boy ? Why do you think there's KKK members marching the streets probably as we speak right now ?

 

[Earth]

Seems to me like a scared cop who never used his gun before panicked and over did it.

Punishing him would be like punishing a soldier who in a war felt threatened and overreacted to the aggression of an unarmed citizen and ended up killing him.

Both should never be a cop/soldier again. But Im not sure how you punish either. These guys are put in life and death situations where they have to make split second decisions whether to kill or possibly be killed themselves. The cop panicked and decided to kill the guy before he could be harmed. If anything he wasnt trained well enough to deal with such situations.

I know this will get me labeled a racist, which is silly. My father is black and most of my friends are black. I've been the victim of racist remarks and treatment from both whites and blacks. So here it goes anyway. If black people want want to be treated equally instead of trying to straighten out white people they need to clean up at home first. Most acknowledge they have to work harder at a job then a white man to get the same pay, promotions, etc. So why do they think they dont have to work hard at cleaning up their appearance, speech, etc in order to be treated equally? Some intentionally adopt the degenerate thug attitude and speech and then throw a fit when they arent treated equally?

I am a colored person. When I go out unshaved without my best clothes etc some white people are more suspicious of me and give me more attitude. Now when I go out clean cut with my best clothes on, more people (white and black) tend to respect me and treat me as equal. Now if I were poorly dressed and a white person was poorly dressed would the white guy be seen as less then a threat then me? Probably. Thats why I have to dress better and have better mannerisms then a white person. The same way I would (in some circumstances of course) have to work harder then a white guy to get the same promotion. So I dont get it when some who are black that embraced the thug lifestyle cry when they arent treated equally. Its like they're saying they can look like and behave like detestable people but should be treated like first class citizens. Its insane. 99% of people in the world dont have the willpower to look beyond first impressions. Which is why trying to change others is a pointless endeavor. Start at home.

 

[McLaren]

If you are trained as an offer and cannot stop a violent suspect that has put space between you and him with your belt full of non-lethal weapons get out of the job. While the threat was imminent and in his face he took the time to consist every weapon on his belt and the feasibility of using it, but when the guy put distance between them and Wilson was in a position to properly defend himself he went blank and just began shooting?

That is what Wilson testified to, that he doesn't know how many shots he fired after he got out of the car. He was freaked out and reacted in the most lethal way he had at hand. If pepper spray and a baton weren't going to be good enough in that situation then maybe he needs to reconsider leaving his tazer behind because it wasn't comfortable.

Nope. Wilson acknowledges after the first series of shots, he recognizes that Brown hasn't stopped.

That was all done, like I said, the first step, his first stride coming back towards me. As he is coming towards me, I tell, keep telling him to get on the ground, he doesn't.

Brown ignores repeated warnings to stop moving towards the officer. He's doing this with a hand under his shirt.

I shoot a series of shots. I don't know how many I shot, I just know I shot it. I know I missed a couple, I don't know how many, but I know I hit him at least once because I saw his body kind of jerk or flenched. I remember having tunnel vision on his right hand, that's all, I'm just focusing on that hand when I was shooting. Well, after my last shot my tunnel vision kind of opened up. I remember seeing smoke from the gun and I kind of looked at him and he's still coming at me, he hadn't slowed down.

Brown is shot at least once after multiple shots fired & doesn't stop; he keeps moving after bring struck.

At this point I start backpedaling and again, I tell him to get on the ground, he doesn't. I shoot another round of shots. Again, I don't recall how many it was or if I hit him every time. I know at least once because he flinched again. At this point it looked like he was almost bulking up to run through the shots, like it was making him med that I'm shooting at him. And the face he had was looking straight through me, like I wasn't even there, I wasn't even anything in his way. Well, he keeps coming at me after that again, during the pause I tell him to get on the ground, get on the ground. He still keeps coming at me, gets about 8 to 10 feet away. At this point, I'm backing up pretty rapidly, like he was just going to tackle me, just go right through me.

Brown has been shot twice by this point & still advancing despite numerous warnings.

Q: Can you demonstrate for us how he was leaning forward?
A: His hand was in a fist at his side, this one is in his waistband under his shirt, and he was like this. Just coming straight at me like he was going to run right through me. And when he gets about that 8-10 feet away, I look down, I remember looking at my sites and firing, all I see is his head, and that's what I shot. I don't know how many, I know at least once because I saw the last one go into him. And then when it went into him, the demeanor on his face went blank, the aggression was gone, it was gone, I mean, I knew he stopped, the threat was stopped.

Wilson did not just fire 6 shots in this kid & call it a day. Brown was shot once, warned, shot twice, warned, shot a third time, & was dead.

I don't believe for a second someone who was able to withstand 2 gun shots and still advance towards his shooter would be subdued by any nonlethal weapons by Wilson. Most people shot once throw in the towel. If Brown had the common sense to do so himself, he would have been able to give his own account. But, he didn't. He literally walked into the line of fire.

An unarmed black teenager is killed by a police officer and the gtp consensus (based on likes) is that the problem is black culture, the lack of mother/father figures etc.?

Nope, not what anyone said.

My issue is celebrities commenting on the verdict as injustice against the black community, yet they fail to comment on more prevalent issues within' those communities.

With statements like "They act out their wildest dreams of being degenerate for one night" and "They couldn't care less if Brown is dead" it's fairly clear that you have deeply seated, long held conclusions about black communities, and believe that even the killing of an unarmed black teenager by a police officer can be used to support them.

Those statements were in regards to those who riot in the US vs. those who riot in Europe & I didn't say one word about blacks in regard to riots. I regard all rioters in the US as idiots. The fact you immediately linked my comments about rioters to black people however, is "fairly clear" you have your own conclusions.

The UN rights chief has expressed his concerned over the 'disproportionate' killings of African-Americans by US police

And yet I doubt he expresses any concern over black-on-black crime like everyone else jumping on the media bandwagon.

Anonymous, who have hacked hundreds of KKK member accounts, have claimed to have evidence that police officer Darren Wilson has links to the KKK, but of course the problem is black culture, the lack of mother/father figures etc.

So, where was this evidence in court?[/quote]

 

[Swagger897]

And as long as this goes unquestioned unarmed people shall continue to die, justifiably or not.

Unarmed or not, he assaulted an officer on the brink of possible death.

That is just ridiculous to say that anyways. It's as if you are comparing being attacked by a bear and the bear doesn't have a fair chance because it doesn't have a gun... Completely ridiculous.

 

[FoolKiller]

Nope. Wilson acknowledges after the first series of shots, he recognizes that Brown hasn't stopped.

Brown ignores repeated warnings to stop moving towards the officer. He's doing this with a hand under his shirt.

Brown is shot at least once after multiple shots fired & doesn't stop; he keeps moving after bring struck.

Brown has been shot twice by this point & still advancing despite numerous warnings.

After the first series of shots. I guess Wilson was psychic and knew Brown couldn't be stopped byless than a bullet and resorted to the gun out of necessity.

You defend his actions based on hindsight.

Wilson did not just fire 6 shots in this kid & call it a day.

Exactly, he doesn't know how many shots he fired. He wasn't thinking clearly, or is purposely obfuscating the record. He had a perfect memory of events as he was being beaten, but not when Brown was at the corner and then started coming back.

Brown was shot once, warned, shot twice, warned, shot a third time, & was dead.

Why was the first shot necessary?

Of course this all stems on Wilson telling the truth. He would have no reason to paint himself as a victim, right?. The fact is we don't know what happened. This is all based on the testimony of the survivor. There isn't enough to say the shooting was unjustified anymore than our it's to say it is justified.


Let me make one thing clear: based on current law and evidence the grand jury made the correct call. I disagree with the law. Police should be held to a higher standard than the public. No amount of "what should he do?" or "what would you do" means anything if we are supposed to trust police. If we defend unarmed shootings without questions we open a very scary door where law enforcement is above the law.

Unarmed or not, he assaulted an officer on the brink of possible death.

Unarmed means everything. Do you think the unjust killings happen because the cops are afraid of repercussion?

That is just ridiculous to say that anyways. It's as if you are comparing being attacked by a bear and the bear doesn't have a fair chance because it doesn't have a gun... Completely ridiculous.

I truly love your false equivalencies.

Wait, is it a bear with no claws or teeth? No, wait for it...






Was it a black bear?

 

[Swagger897]

First of there's no proof that MB was a "thug". Second If his only option was to use a pistol against an unarmed person charging at him (in which case you're actually trained to stop people like that which doesn't involve a gun) then he should not have tackled the situation in the first place. It seems to me that a lot of American (white) cops are like that. Shoot first ask questions later. You said he had bruises and scratches from the fight ? A friendly reminder that those images are everywhere on the internet and those bruises and scratches does NOT justify his actions of putting 6 bullets in a kid. I know legally on paper he's an adult but in society he's still a kid. What sort of training do cops go through over there ? Is there any at all ? "If they're white talk them down and cuff em. If they're black just shoot em". You said no one is gonna mace someone charging at them. Umm I'd like you to talk to a few women that carries mace with them. My mom and my sister does. They have both on multiple occasions maced someone charging at them and it has worked every time. You're saying its just another excuse to pull the race card when it is about race. What do you think would happen if a black cop shot a white teenage boy ? Why do you think there's KKK members marching the streets probably as we speak right now ?

I classify him as a "thug" based on Wilson's report of gang activity in Browns apartment area. I can say/call what I want, but I have some restraint too.
So what would justify putting bullets in an adult that has just assaulted a cop and is returning to possibly kill him? I believe that the action taken by Wilson was perfectly fine.
And no, in society he's an adult. The parents continued to say he was about to go to college, blah blah blah... If I were to get in a wreck and cause a death to another driver/passenger, I would be charged with vehicular homicide just like any other adult, and like Brown.
That's nice that your mom and your sister both carry mace. My mother (by Christmas) will be carrying a revolver. If I ask her "mace or the pistol", or any other female adult I know, they would say the pistol. Maybe that's different for you and your area, but down here where EVERY DAMN DAY on the news, some African American has either rapped, robbed, or murdered someone, white, Asian, black, purple, green, blue. Every day.

And it is most definitely not about race from my pov. I have not pulled the race card at all, and don't plan to. Me defending a white defendant of the case should not classify me as being biased with my own race, nor show prejudice against others. I thought Zimmerman at first was black, or Latino, and still defended him over his actions. If he's white, so what, I couldn't give a damn. Nor could I give a damn if the KKK is on my street right now, or anyone else's street. I don't want to start anything with them, so why provoke them to harm me?

After the first series of shots. I guess Wilson was psychic and knew Brown couldn't be stopped byless than a bullet and resorted to the gun out of necessity.

You defend his actions based on hindsight.


Exactly, he doesn't know how many shots he fired. He wasn't thinking clearly, or is purposely obfuscating the record. He had a perfect memory of events as he was being beaten, but not when Brown was at the corner and then started coming back.


Why was the first shot necessary?

Of course this all stems on Wilson telling the truth. He would have no reason to paint himself as a victim, right?. The fact is we don't know what happened. This is all based on the testimony of the survivor. There isn't enough to say the shooting was unjustified anymore than our it's to say it is justified.


Let me make one thing clear: based on current law and evidence the grand jury made the correct call. I disagree with the law. Police should be held to a higher standard than the public. No amount of "what should he do?" or "what would you do" means anything if we are supposed to trust police. If we defend unarmed shootings without questions we open a very scary door where law enforcement is above the law.


Unarmed means everything. Do you think the unjust killings happen because the cops are afraid of repercussion?


I truly love your false equivalencies.

Wait, is it a bear with no claws or teeth? No, wait for it...






Was it a black bear?

If you actually read the whole testimony, you'll find Wilson most definitely did not have "perfect memory" while still in his car. He even leaves out half of the original call as to why he is even there, Mr. Johnson, wearing the black shirt...

And umm no, it doesn't mean everything. Brown could've carried a backpack with him with a pistol in it, and never have gone for it when against Wilson, which still wouldn't have changed the result.

And no, it's not unjust in the first place, and Wilson was told not to resign even if indicted.

 

[McLaren]

Exactly, he doesn't know how many shots he fired. He wasn't thinking clearly, or is purposely obfuscating the record. He had a perfect memory of events as he was being beaten, but not when Brown was at the corner and then started coming back.

Stop refusing to actually read. Wilson went as far as to describe Brown's face, aggression, & stance as he came towards him. He recalled all 3 series of shots followed by telling him to stop; sounds like he remembers it pretty well. You're just so focused on the fact he didn't know how many bullets he fired. News flash, almost no officer keeps track of every bullet discharged, but to acknowledge that & the protocol if an officer uses his weapon doesn't concede with your stance, so it doesn't matter.

Why was the first shot necessary?

Why was ignoring get on the ground necessary?

Of course this all stems on Wilson telling the truth. He would have no reason to paint himself as a victim, right?. The fact is we don't know what happened. This is all based on the testimony of the survivor. There isn't enough to say the shooting was unjustified anymore than our it's to say it is justified.

How would you even know? You've twice proven you haven't even read the testimony by claiming both men were standing & Brown was shot in the car yet there was no mention in the testimony that Brown was ever hit in the car.

 

[Parker]

I wonder how many people who post here and who feel Officer Wilson was in the wrong have actual Law Enforcement experience. How many of you have been hit with OC? Taser? How many went through baton or firearms training? How many people have fought and rolled with a full Class A uniform and duty belt on? I've been through all that and I can tell you that just about the only thing that will stop a determined person is a firearm, a baton too if you are relatively evenly matched size wise.

People keep commenting that Brown was unarmed. Yeah, he was. But he had already fought Wilson for his firearm and he was then charging back towards Officer Wilson. What do you do? Deploy a taser? Those are not reliable at all and many departments require at least two Officers to be present, one with the taser and one with a Glock drawn. So if Officer Wilson had deployed a taser it could have easily missed one barb or simply not penetrated his clothing. Again, I've been there and done that, tasers are not a reliable way to stop a potentially deadly force.

Now what, OC him? OC hurts like hell but it is also easy as pie to fight through. It isn't dangerous in the least and there are many cases where it doesn't affect a person at all. So if someone is charging with what you believe is intent to kill, OC shouldn't cross your mind at all.

Baton? Yeah, that could potentially be very effective. However Brown had already been shot and was still charging Officer Wilson so are you really going to risk going hand to hand with someone of Brown's size, by yourself, after he has already tried to grab your firearm? Whether or not Brown was unarmed is completely irrelevant because it is obvious from his previous interactions with the Officer that he intended to arm himself, whether that be with a hidden gun in his waistband or Officer Wilson's duty weapon. Weapon retention is something we spent a lot of time on in the academy but I don't think many realize how easy it is to get an Officer's weapon out of the holster in a fight.

I absolutely agree that Law Enforcement should be held to a higher standard than civilians but that doesn't mean we don't have a right to protect ourselves. I have a family that I want to go home to everyday, Wilson did too. We are trained and have various techniques to subdue someone without lethal force but if someone is going after your gun they have escalated it to a lethal force situation, especially if you have no backup. Our badges don't give us superpowers.

There are a lot of members of the Law Enforcement community who mess up. You can pull up a lot of news stories where an Officer or multiple Officer's have been caught behaving in a manner that no one fund acceptable. But just think of how many hundreds of thousands of other Officer's go to work everyday without incidents like that. It is easy to sit back and cherry pick articles that make Law Enforcement look bad or abusive but we're human and we make mistakes. and the good Officers far, far outweigh the bad. I am curious as to why nobody makes a stink when an Officer is wrongly accused of doing something. There was just recently a woman who accused a Police Officer of raping her but his body cam clearly showed otherwise, why aren't people up in arms about that?

I urge many of you to take a ride along with a local Police Officer. Maybe it will open your minds to some of the things that LEO have to face everyday. Again, I am in no way, shape or form saying anyone in Law Enforcement is perfect, far from it, but many people act like our lives are expendable and we should be treated lower than other members of society and I simply don't agree with that.

 

[FoolKiller]

You've twice proven you haven't even read the testimony by claiming both men were standing & Brown was shot in the car yet there was no mention in the testimony that Brown was ever hit in the car.

I re-read to pull the quote and realize I made an error, confusing his description of the blood on his hand as coming from Brown.

But that didn't change one thing.

How would you even know?

How would I know that none of us know? Because we weren't there. How do you know? The grand jury result didn't mean evidence exonerates Wilson. It means that there wasn't enough to bring charges.


I'm questioning lethal force. I'm not condemning Wilson. I have tried to couch this in the general law enforcement mentality toward lethal force multiple times. What is so wrong with that? Should we not question those with enough power over us that they can kill us as part of their job? My rule of thumb is to always question. To fail to do so is folly.

@peobryant I am friends with a retired KSP detective and a current KSP trooper. The retired detective agrees with me. The trooper doesn't. What changed in their mentality over a generation?

 

[Parker]

@FoolKiller I couldn't tell you. Maybe the retired KSP Officer thought they should've done what they did in the "good 'ol days" and surrounded and beaten Brown simply for being black. Without discussing it with the gentleman I couldn't begin to guess as to why he has the opinion he does.

 

[Siren]

Whatever helps you guys sleep at night. To be honest this just proves how America as a society and justice system is disgusting. I'm not siding with MB or Officer Wilson on this thread anymore, I have my own opinions and I respects yours as well. I'm just saying the justice and injustice and society in your country is straight up horrible. People living in fear all the time of both criminals and cops. Gun laws...laughable. Education system almost useless. Health care system..I don't even know what to say about that. I know a lot of people might look down on where I live (Trinidad) and laugh because hey I'm from a developing/third world country right ? But at least we're doing nearly everything right and racism is like a cricket in a sound proofed room. We're identical in terms of environment, technology and development (more advanced in Energy though). Yet the country that has the more money, more work force and more influence is rapidly turning to s**t where basically almost every country hates America. A country that was once praised for being "the best" and actually advertised as "The greatest country in the world", is now the laughing stock of humanity.

 

[phillgt2002]

Having just returned from the Ferguson area, it wasn't as bad as the night of the decision. It was still tense and the whole group of protesters nearly got tear gassed multiple times. A few things were thrown and they started saying that it was not a peaceful protest anymore even though it was fairly quiet after the throwing. It was a back and forth constantly. The police told us to disperse (there wasn't a real reason to), and they kept pushing us and kept trying to intimidate us with their weapons. Eventually, a-lot of protesters got funneled into a neighborhood after a swat van forced them farther away from the Ferguson police station. After that, the area quieted down, and my friend and I left for our car.

Right when we got there though, there was a break-in at the Walgreens that was somewhat burnt out. My friend and I saw about 5 younger guys approaching the Walgreens and right when we made it down to the parking lot of the Shop N Save across the street, we saw about 20 police cars rush to the Walgreens. I don't know if the guys were arrested or not.

For those of you that think that there is constant looting, the looting was only a result of the day of the decision and assholes taking advantage. There was almost (I think?) zero looting this night, the protest was mainly peaceful with some tense but controlled engagement from the police.

Some quick snaps. I just used a wide angle because I was constantly moving.

Just an officer yelling at people.

Vice News and other reporters gathering around a man who lives in the apartment in the back.

Police responding to the Walgreens break in.

Though very fuzzy from me attempting to get away, here we have Mr. Badass with his tear gas launcher.

I'm surprised that it didn't escalate. There were tense moments, but I think that the police took care of this much better than the other times, and the people there were the ones who cared. It's quiet in the Ferguson area now that everyone has gone to sleep, though more protests should be expected after the Thanks Giving holiday.

One other thing.. it was cold as ****.

 

[Crispy]

Had Wilson used pepper spray or a taser. Brown could have gone down, or kept going. If he kept going, then Wilson would have to pull out his gun again, and by this time Brown would have been on top of him, and he would be dead. Don't think for one moment, when it is five seconds between living and dying, that you wouldn't choose the option that will secure YOU in going home that night. That is human nature. Anyone would do that. It doesn't matter if who was black, white or blue. It sucks that someone had to lose a life, but that is what happened.

As a way to help, people need to educate their children on how to properly deal with the police. It is not "what the 🤬 are you doing pulling me over?" It is not "I don't have time for this!" It is not "What is the purpose of this?" It is "yes sir, no sir, sorry sir, thank you sir." I guarantee this would stop the majority of bad altercations.

The biggest killer of black people is not police. It is not whitey. It is not Hispanics nor is it Asians. The #1 killer of blacks, is other blacks. Why is this? I don't know. I certainly think this is a bigger issue however. It isn't the institution doing this. It isn't white people telling black people to go kill each other. Black people also graduate high school at the lowest rate, yet they have the highest birthrate. Society isn't handing in the drop-out papers, and society certainly isn't telling all black people to have unprotected sex. That last one is a simple matter of education. Graduation might have something to do with anyone trying to make something of themselves being called an "Uncle Tom" or being called "white washed". No my friends, it's called being a productive member of society.

Just two generations ago institutionalized racism was rampant. There are still parts of that time visible today. If there weren't then white kids would be incarcerated at the same rate as blacks and Hispanics when it comes to drug violations, but they aren't, even if whites hit the pipe just as much as blacks and Hispanics. This would also be helped if we got rid of the war on drugs, but that is for a different thread.

The point is that the biggest issues with the black communities are not with society, they are not with white people, and they are not because of aliens. (Have to cover all the bases here) The biggest problem is with the community itself. People are encouraged not to testify. People would rather sell drugs because it pays more, instead of work the minimum wage job during high school. People who want to make something of themselves are discouraged from doing so. People idolize thugs and misogynist rappers and women who consistently act like their only asset is, well, ass. People decide to have babies at extremely young ages, making it extremely harder to succeed. Then the fathers, of course, skip out on these children. We do need to have a national conversation about police brutality and police militarization. First we need to have a national conversation about these issues however. These issues absolutely plague the black community.

Thankfully my town doesn't see this as much. In my community, many of the black families I see are the ones who made the sacrifices. Who got out of towns like Ferguson. They're the ones who tried to make something of themselves. They fought societies pre-conceived notions about them, and they fought their own communities who acted like they were playing into whitey's hands. This is one reason that my neighborhood has remained peaceful. A few miles south and you have protesters blocking highways. McLaren could back me up on that claim.

I do apologize if anything in my post sounded racist, as it was not the intent if it did. However when dealing with issues like this, people can tend to view things in the wrong light, from all sides.

@Siren If you really think that all American's live in constant fear of criminals and police, then I don't think you have enough information or facts to call our society "disgusting" or our legal system as "disgusting". Our legal system does have flaws, which one does not? The greatest shame of any legal system is punishing an innocent person, not letting free a guilty person. They didn't have enough evidence to indict, meaning they certainly didn't have enough evidence to charge him as guilty in a trial. You can take it to mean a hateful, racist murderer was set free and that is your right. It is certainly tough to swallow that pill, however I will choose that pill over sending an innocent police officer protecting himself getting sent to jail anytime. If that makes me, and the rest of American society disgusting, then so be it.

 

[a6m5]

@Siren - I think the U.S. is the laughing stock of the humanity, only to those who are critical of the U.S. People actually want to immigrate to this country. I totally agree that it is full of problems, but I don't at all agree with your view that it has somehow hit the rock bottom. To me, bottom of the humanity is North Korea. Many nations in Africa & Middle East. Whether you agree with how American chooses to live or not, you can't argue the fact that more immigrant want to live here than elsewhere. I'm from Japan. Oh, it is very safe there & the society there doesn't experience many problems seen not just in the U.S., but also rest of the world(developing, or developed parts). Many other reasons why Japanese living in the U.S. should want to go back home, like family, culture, etc.

Having said that, I've known so many who were forced to move back to Japan by whatever circumstance(Visa, job, etc.). Even those who do willingly go home, they generally thoroughly enjoy their time living in the U.S. In fact, I've never met a single Japanese who lived in the States who hated their time here. Not one. Hardly scientific, but I sense a trend.

You sound little bit frustrated, and I do also believe that this country do have major issue with race relation, but before you label someone's society a laughing stock of the humanity, I hope you remember that flip side to your view/argument DEFINITELY exist. IMO, America is not remotely as negative as you paint it, and the positive side of this country is immeasurable. IMO.

 

[Northstar]

People living in fear all the time of both criminals and cops.

The only thing I constantly fear living in the States are the deer that dart in front of my car, and I've only had to deal with that for a little over a year. Prior to that I walked to and from work as it was only a mile from work to my home. During that 5 year span, even when working until midnight, I never felt my well being was in danger from anything other than bad drivers.

Of course there are bad areas, every country has them, but they represent a small fraction of the country.

Gun laws...laughable. Education system almost useless. Health care system..I don't even know what to say about that.

Care to elaborate on any of these? Because without elaboration I can't help but feel you are just going off of the hysteria the media likes to put out.

I know a lot of people might look down on where I live (Trinidad) and laugh because hey I'm from a developing/third world country right ? But at least we're doing nearly everything right and racism is like a cricket in a sound proofed room.

It's not hard to get everyone to play nicely together when there's not that many of you (my state alone has 5x your population).

I'm not trying to say we don't have problems, but when you have nearly 320,000,000 people coming from vastly different backgrounds, you are going to have issues. I'm not even talking about immigrants necessarily either, just going from Minnesota to Atlanta seems like visiting a different country due to the different cultures.

We're identical in terms of environment, technology and development (more advanced in Energy though).

One of the benefits of being a developing nation is that you get to build your infrastructure using modern technology. One of the biggest problems with the energy system in the states is it's size, the cost would be astronomical to replace it all.

is now the laughing stock of humanity.

Humanity itself is the laughing stock and the U.S. is far from the worst.

 

[Dotini]

I agree that the US is becoming an over-militarized police state. Cops too often shoot first and ask questions later.

I also agree that we have fundamental problems with income inequality; the rich are getting richer while the rest are languishing.

These and many other problems probably motivated the riots in Ferguson and angry protests elsewhere around the country.

While the general anger and protests are understandable, they can now be seen as specifically stupid and counterproductive, since they are based on sympathy for a strong-armed robber who defied, taunted and attacked a police officer in the line of duty. The dead man got exactly what he had coming to him. So the thousands or millions who protested have all set their cause back, and not advanced it. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They should have backed a saint and not a sinner.

In the deep background of all this are profound changes in culture.

IMO, the most basic change is the destruction of the nuclear family - father, mother, boy, girl - and its replacement by unattached individuals lacking clear sexual identity and social responsibilities, with government taking too much responsibility for health, education and welfare, cradle to grave. In short, too much liberalism.

 

[Siren]

Have a great day everyone

 

[FoolKiller]

@FoolKiller I couldn't tell you. Maybe the retired KSP Officer thought they should've done what they did in the "good 'ol days" and surrounded and beaten Brown simply for being black.

His opinion is that he signed up to protect and serve others, not himself, and that he was trained to prevent loss of life, including the suspect's.

Without discussing it with the gentleman I couldn't begin to guess as to why he has the opinion he does.

You asked if people thinking like me had law enforcement experience. I pointed out one who did.

Looks like he isn't the only retired LEO who sides with the protesters.

 

[McLaren]

I re-read to pull the quote and realize I made an error, confusing his description of the blood on his hand as coming from Brown.

But that didn't change one thing.


How would I know that none of us know? Because we weren't there. How do you know? The grand jury result didn't mean evidence exonerates Wilson. It means that there wasn't enough to bring charges.

I'm not talking about the case. How would you know if Wilson painted himself as a victim or not if you proved repeatedly that you never read the testimony by him?

He's a guilty murderer in your eyes with or without Brown's testimony because you have too much of an agenda against cops with guns in the first place. That's all I see from your posts.

 

[Blood Eagle]

His opinion is that he signed up to protect and serve others, not himself, and that he was trained to prevent loss of life, including the suspect's.

Actually, according to the supreme court, Law Enforcement at all levels (State and Federal) have no Constitutional obligation to protect you. They carry the gun to protect themselves.

 

[phillgt2002]

I agree that the US is becoming an over-militarized police state. .

Yeah. Everyone and their grandma had a grenade launcher. Have you seen a dwarf with a grenade launcher? I have.. only in Ferguson.

They had so many hand me down weapons that it was somewhat comical. They had enough weapons to destroy ISIS and the rest of Iraq. It's all an overreaction. The National Guard doesn't need to be there; the higher ups in the police force just need to make sure that those stupid ****, hyped up officers stay calm.

I was standing on the sidewalk after they told us to clear the streets and this officer gave me this stupid death stare that was so serious that it made me laugh. Like, it is not that serious, especially that night.

 

[Blood Eagle]

The National Guard is just for show. They can't actually do anything. Don't need another Kent State shooting.

 

[FoolKiller]

I'm not talking about the case. How would you know if Wilson painted himself as a victim or not if you proved repeatedly that you never read the testimony by him?

I did read the testimony. You are using hyperbole, and you know it. I had an error in my memory on a single point. I don't know if I didn't understand it correctly or confused it with Johnson's testimony (who says the shot in the car did strike Brown), but somehow I got it confused, and I admitted to that. And sorry if I disregarded the bit where he described Brown's face as being like a demon. I chocked up the part that sounded like an episode of Grimm as being emotional memory more than visual memory. Considering that there are months worth of testimony, all differing in various ways, I think that attributing his demon face to an emotional memory seems a safe judgment.

He's a guilty murderer in your eyes with or without Brown's testimony because you have too much of an agenda against cops with guns in the first place. That's all I see from your posts.

Because I ask questions and think they should be investigated and held to a higher standard? They are given legal authority to kill you. They had better be heavily scrutinized. They can shoot a 12-year-old boy with a toy and have it deemed justified with little to no investigation. THAT is not acceptable.

I don't think all cops are bad. I have never said that. I am pretty sure I have made statements about how the good cops need to start speaking up.



It's funny. I used to give law enforcement the benefit of the doubt and take their word at face value. We could probably dig back to my first years on this site and find me posting in that way. But I kept seeing people get shot, beaten and so forth when they have shown zero aggression. Then one day my daughter asked me if we broke the rules if the police would come kill us. We don't have cable or an antenna. News is never on in my house. I read my newsreader feeds after she goes to bed and my wife and I avoid discussing these things around her. I don't know when police went from being the guy a kid can always trust to the guy who kills you if you break the rules, but for that to happen means that law enforcement has a PR issue. They have to address it. That is my agenda. I want my daughter to feel safe to ask police for help. That could be the difference between her life and death. I've taken her to the state fair and let her meet the state police and sheriffs, but she still asks that question. No amount of remote controlled police dogs and giant inflatable officers will fix that. She needs to have the image of helpful police reinforced.

I will admit that Big Hero 6 didn't help, as the officer there seemed to not care about the villain, who was very scary to my daughter.

Actually, according to the supreme court, Law Enforcement at all levels (State and Federal) have no Constitutional obligation to protect you. They carry the gun to protect themselves.

What the Supreme Court has to do with what a retired detective's opinion on what police should be, I don't know.

And just because the Supreme Court rules on something doesn't mean that I or anyone must agree, or that it is how it should be.

 

[Swagger897]

They are given legal authority to kill you.

Provided that their life is in danger, and the only option is to be killed or to kill...

They can shoot a 12-year-old boy with a toy and have it deemed justified with little to no investigation. THAT is not acceptable.

What type of toys are we talking about here? Stuffed bears, stuffed black bears if you prefer that, jack in the box, a portable game, or are we talking about toy guns, airsoft guns, paintball guns?

Anyone can shoot a 12 yo kid if they have a gun, but why? You leave out so much to your own examples to justify a point which undeniably cannot be answered without the whole picture.