America - The Official Thread

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Thank you for stating the obvious. Of course they should all be treated with equal contempt, including the attempts to bring Sharia Law into the western world. It has no place here and neither does anything else that so obviously challenges the freedoms and equality we've been working toward these many years.

Marriages are the exception, and the reason why I didn't go there is because marriages, in a broad context, are not usually enforced by contracts. They fall under other Civil/criminal enforcement.

Basically @FoolKiller summed it up best, an abused spouse could get one under state laws, but the Islamic culture will not recognize it as legal.
 
In the case of these marriages, they might be able to seek a legal divorce but their culture will not recognize it and they would be in fear for their lives.

@FoolKiller[/USER] summed it up best, an abused spouse could get one under state laws, but the Islamic culture will not recognize it as legal.
Once old enough to remove oneself from said culture, why would they continue to submit to such a silly system?
 
Am I reading that the slow creep of governments that seek to limit freedoms is of mighty concern, but the potential slow creep of governments allowing for Sharia Law that could limit freedoms is not?

An old post from FK....
Expand your view beyond the gun control issue and you may realize defending Constitutional rights is bigger than gun control. Government is the greatest example of giving them an inch and then taking a mile or the (hang on to your hats, deniers) slippery slope. Budge on one thing and they push harder on all things.

For example: Americans budged on cigarettes and food for "public health." Now public health is used to try regulating foods across the board. A farmer can't sell milk directly from his farm without being raided, what you fry foods with is regulated, sugar is being taxed, and even some have tried to limit the amount of certain types of drinks you can order at one time.

Or security: The Patriot Act and the NDAA severely violated the 4th and 6th amendments and now every airline passenger is treated like a criminal. That expanded into NSA spying on everyone. And if you question it, its security and you are just too ignorant to realize the threat of terrorism. If you ask to be enlightened they can't because its classified. This has expanded locally to warrantless searches and seizures, speed and red light cameras, and drone use at home. It has even expended into foreign policy, where the president can order bombings in countries we aren't at war with, and even of US citizens abroad. It's security.

And the biggest move is happening right now. Senator Diane Feinstein, in the name of security, wants to limit the 1st Amendment to only apply to the people she defines as a journalist. The 1st Amendment! This is considered the most sacrisanct of the Bill of Rights. It is what allows us to challenge government misdeeds without repercussion. It is how we are able to not live in fear. And she wants to make it so bloggers who speak ill of her can be made a criminal. This entire section of GTPlanet would have to be removed to protect Jordan from liability in the event someone made a character attack or linked to leaked information that doesn't come from an approved source.

Now, the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to allow us to protect ourselves against an overreaching government or enemies from abroad. In a world where DEA agents raid homes and assault innocent elderly women without a warrant or police reload twice to shoot an unarmed man 41 times, you have to understand why some refuse to budge on the one right that allows us to defend ourselves. Every tiny fraction of an inch we have allowed in the past has become a complete trampling of our rights.

Perhaps, to someone on the outside looking in, it seems an odd place to make a stand. I agree. I was yelling for a stand to be taken a decade ago. But some people are slow to realize the innate abuse that powers government.

That said, perhaps there is a balance, but the latest attempts at gun control were going beyond what the authors claimed it was, even removing medical privacy for potential gun buyers. They were asking for an inch but already grabbing a mile. And in the end it would have not affected this case. If anyone recalls, Joe Biden, head of the gun violence committee said all you need is a shotgun.

People aren't throwing up placards, they are drawing lines in the sand. Just because the men sometimes sent out by groups and/or portrayed by a biased media are poor spoken or even total idiots does not mean that those who agree with them are the same. Larry Pratt formed his group because they are so extreme they think the NRA doesn't do enough. He doesn't represent even a fraction of gun owners or gun rights activists. But he does make a good extreme, crazy guy to use when you want to make the people you disagree with look insane.

What happens if it gets to the point where any adult can choose to submit to Sharia Law? That's freedom right? The freedom to deny yourself of freedom. But I'm sure that at least women will choose not to go for it, considering what it would mean for them. Still.......

Religion can make people do stupid stuff.
 
After learning that Palestina had taken a part-time job without her parents' permission, and dated a non-Muslim African American man, her father felt she had become too Westernized.

Their mother, Patricia Said, claims both girls were killed for having non-Muslim boyfriends.

Police said Almaleki told detectives and witnesses after the October 2009 incident that he was angry at his daughter because she was "too Westernized," defying Iraqi and Muslim values. Noor had shunned an arranged marriage, and was living with her boyfriend and his mother, police said.
Sure, sure. Who are the bigots here? According to @prisonermonkeys logic, that would be me, because I'm a racist and I shun foreign cultures' practices openly.
 
Am I reading that the slow creep of governments that seek to limit freedoms is of mighty concern, but the potential slow creep of governments allowing for Sharia Law that could limit freedoms is not?

An old post from FK....


What happens if it gets to the point where any adult can choose to submit to Sharia Law? That's freedom right? The freedom to deny yourself of freedom. But I'm sure that at least women will choose not to go for it, considering what it would mean for them. Still.......
I highlighted the key word. You get no choice in the matter if a government tells you to live a certain way. In this particular case the Sharia tribunal is voluntary to join. They are not, to my knowledge, forcing young women to join them or seeking to punish those who do not.


And I know you are smart enough to see the difference.
 
Haven't Catholics done the same thing? Catholicism is one of the killingest institutions in human history.

Nah, enslavement and selling unmarried mothers' babies was the preferred method of punishing "honour crimes".
 
Haven't Catholics done the same thing? Catholicism is one of the killingest institutions in human history.

You are deflecting the issue here, Keef. The issue isn't whether or not Catholics, or any other branch of Christianity for that matter, has killed and murdered in the name of their religion, but rather the lengths that muslims would go to inflict and impose Sharia here in America.

Marry into a muslim family? Good luck trying to get away from it if you are trying to get a divorce. The hispanic gang MS13 have a rather absolute motto in what they expect from their members, "blood in, blood out." That means that if you join the gang, expect to be in that gang until you die, and if you try to leave, expect a hit to be put out on you. Now I don't want to say that the most muslims would share that mentality, but you have seen through various media reports that some muslims will kill for a perceived slight against them.
 
You are deflecting the issue here, Keef. The issue isn't whether or not Catholics, or any other branch of Christianity for that matter, has killed and murdered in the name of their religion, but rather the lengths that muslims would go to inflict and impose Sharia here in America.

Marry into a muslim family? Good luck trying to get away from it if you are trying to get a divorce. The hispanic gang MS13 have a rather absolute motto in what they expect from their members, "blood in, blood out." That means that if you join the gang, expect to be in that gang until you die, and if you try to leave, expect a hit to be put out on you. Now I don't want to say that the most muslims would share that mentality, but you have seen through various media reports that some muslims will kill for a perceived slight against them.

There is something deep within the American mentality that says, "you always have a choice". Accordingly, we do not really believe in the permanence of commitments such as national citizenship, religion, family, marriage, gender, contracts, or debt. What we do believe in is money, guns and lawyers.
 
There is something deep within the American mentality that says, "you always have a choice". Accordingly, we do not really believe in the permanence of commitments such as national citizenship, religion, family, marriage, gender, contracts, or debt. What we do believe in is money, guns and lawyers.

Some of those choices are stricly a one time offer though. If I remember correctly, and do tell me I am incorrect if so, but if you officially renounce your United States citizenship and this is accepted by the state department or relevant federal authority, then you can never have it back.
 
You are deflecting the issue here, Keef. The issue isn't whether or not Catholics, or any other branch of Christianity for that matter, has killed and murdered in the name of their religion, but rather the lengths that muslims would go to inflict and impose Sharia here in America.

Marry into a muslim family? Good luck trying to get away from it if you are trying to get a divorce. The hispanic gang MS13 have a rather absolute motto in what they expect from their members, "blood in, blood out." That means that if you join the gang, expect to be in that gang until you die, and if you try to leave, expect a hit to be put out on you. Now I don't want to say that the most muslims would share that mentality, but you have seen through various media reports that some muslims will kill for a perceived slight against them.
You answer the question yourself, most do not share this viewpoint, most will not kill someone over this (or any other matter), yet that is exactly how your opening paragraph reads.

As such why extend a minority view to the majority, it would be akin to using the actions of the MS13 gang as a rule for all Hispanics.

Its that reason why other faiths get brought up as context, a minority of all faiths will use its ancient laws as a justification for control, and violence as an acceptable method of exerting that control. That however doesn't mean as a whole they are all going to do it.

Addressing that minority and looking to stop them doing it is never an issue (in fact its what most secular laws cover and are used to do), however use the actions of a minority as a justification to vilify the majority and I personally would consider it a rather worrying and serious issue.
 
You are deflecting the issue here, Keef. The issue isn't whether or not Catholics, or any other branch of Christianity for that matter, has killed and murdered in the name of their religion, but rather the lengths that muslims would go to inflict and impose Sharia here in America.
You do realize that many of the legally allowed civil rights violations in the US were done under the guise of being the Christian thing, right?

Even with it being illegal gay men have been drug to death behind a car, beaten senseless, or worse. Women who talk about leaving their husband because of abuse get shamed in some conservative communities for wanting a divorce, being told she should have made it a happy home so he wouldn't have beat her.

The fact is that the US has a long history of extreme conservative communities (I know people who think a scarlet letter is a good idea) or even cults where breaking the norms in order to save or protect yourself can lead to scary repercussions.

The KKK believes they are doing God's work.
 
Marry into a muslim family? Good luck trying to get away from it if you are trying to get a divorce. The hispanic gang MS13 have a rather absolute motto in what they expect from their members, "blood in, blood out." That means that if you join the gang, expect to be in that gang until you die, and if you try to leave, expect a hit to be put out on you. Now I don't want to say that the most muslims would share that mentality, but you have seen through various media reports that some muslims will kill for a perceived slight against them.
This is exactly the point I was hoping I'd dig out of somebody. Honest question - where is the line between a religion and a cult/gang?

Should we ban or fight against cults and gangs which utilize violence and entrapment? If Sharia utlizes these things does that mean it is a cult or a gang? If it is, does that mean we should fight it or ban it?

Alternatively, why doesn't MS13 register as a religion here in the US? They could get so much money and benefits and legitimacy.
 
This is exactly the point I was hoping I'd dig out of somebody. Honest question - where is the line between a religion and a cult/gang?
All I can tell you is I got in a fair bit of trouble asking this question in Catholic school when we had the unit on cults in our World Religions class :lol:
 
If I'd have gone to a Catholic school I'd either already be successful or I'd have been kicked out before I graduated. I dislike Catholicism with a passion.
 
This is exactly the point I was hoping I'd dig out of somebody. Honest question - where is the line between a religion and a cult/gang?

Should we ban or fight against cults and gangs which utilize violence and entrapment? If Sharia utlizes these things does that mean it is a cult or a gang? If it is, does that mean we should fight it or ban it?

Alternatively, why doesn't MS13 register as a religion here in the US? They could get so much money and benefits and legitimacy.
Excellent questions, with fascinating implications. I'm pretty sure that Australian independent senator Nick Xenophon was seeking to have Scientology re-categorised as a cult.

Picking up on your post, I'm circling back to what I begun to address with Foolkiller above. Essentially, when does choice become choice in name only? Are some people equal to those of unsound mind in regards to having access to a full compliment of rights, and need protection from themselves, and from organisations that would seek to coerce?
 
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As the trial of Eddie Ray Routh begins with Jury Selection Wednesday, a disturbing truth about Routh, who is accused of killing the most lethal sniper in American history, US Navy SEAL Chris Kyle, and fellow SEAL Chad Littlefield at a Texas gun range two years ago Monday, that, if proven, could remarkably impact his trial.

Routh, according to Spencer Walker, board president of the Warfighters Foundation, a Veterans aid charity, and a former US Marine himself, claims through US Marine sources that Routh did NOT have PTSD. In fact, Routh did not even see combat or a traumatic experience while in Iraq, his only tour of duty was being stationed in Balad Air Base (the US's 2nd largest base in Iraq), in fact, during his tour, he did not even leave the base EVER!

Here is the Warfighters Foundation's Facebook post verbatim:

Eddie Routh served one tour in Iraq in 2007, at Balad Air Base (the 2nd largest U.S. installation in Iraq), with no significant events. No combat experience. Let me say that again, he NEVER SAW COMBAT or any aspect of traumatic events associated with a combat deployment (i.e. incoming mortar or rocket fire). He never left the base, EVER.

He held a non-combat arms occupation of 2111 (Small Arms Repairer/ Technician or more commonly referred to as an Armorer). Balad Air Base had a Pizza Hut, 24 hour Buger King, Subway, Popeye’s, Baskin Robbins, movie theater, and even a miniature golf course. It even had a strictly enforced 10-mile per hour speed limit! What a dangerous place…

His tour was comparable to being on a base in southern California, only with MANY more luxuries that were catered to the morale and welfare of the troops who occupied it. He was known to be a drug user and a below average performer while in the Marine Corps.

This has NOTHING to do with PTSD. He was an individual with psychological problems that were not associated with his service.
 
I thought it was a joke, but it seems that the measles are making a comeback in the States.

Will GM bring back the Tri Fives and will Eisenhower become President again?

:P
 
I thought it was a joke, but it seems that the measles are making a comeback in the States.

Will GM bring back the Tri Fives and will Eisenhower become President again?

:P
The anti-vaccine movement has made just enough of a dent to have an effect. Unfortunately, the outbreaks don't stay contained to the unvaccinated.
 
John Podesta is an outgoing counselor to President Barack Obama, and has been selected to be a key member of Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign team, likely campaign manager. He recently announced that his greatest regret is keeping America in the dark on UFO's. What, if anything, does this tell us about the sanity, wisdom and judgment of Podesta, Obama, and Hillary Clinton?

http://news.yahoo.com/outgoing-obam...america-in-the-dark-about-ufos-234149498.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-regret-2014-failure-disclose-UFO-files.html
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5a71305c6964d033690f6a706700f4e9.jpg

FILE - In this Nov. 19, 2014 file photo, Counselor to the President John Podesta speaks in Washington, Wednesday, …

Outgoing senior Obama adviser John Podesta reflected on his latest White House stint Friday, listing his favorite moments and biggest regrets from the past year. Chief among them: depriving the American people of the truth about UFOs.

1. Finally, my biggest failure of 2014: Once again not securing the #disclosure of the UFO files. #thetruthisstilloutthere cc: @NYTimesDowd

— John Podesta (@Podesta44) February 13, 2015
Podesta’s longtime fascination with UFOs is well-documented, as his brief political hiatus following four years as President Bill Clinton’s chief of staff freed him up to pursue his otherworldly passion.

At a 2002 press conference organized by the Coalition for Freedom of Information, Podesta spoke on the importance of disclosing government UFO investigations to the public.

“It’s time to find out what the truth really is that’s out there,” he said. “We ought to do it, really, because it’s right. We ought to do it, quite frankly, because the American people can handle the truth. And we ought to do it because it’s the law.”



Following Podesta’s tweet, Friday, the Washington Post recalled an exchange one of its reporters had with Podesta in 2007. Karen Tumulty had asked Podesta about reports that the Clinton Library in Little Rock, Arkansas, had been bombarded with Freedom of Information Act Requests specifically seeking email correspondence to and from the former chief of staff including terms like “X-Files” and “Area 51.” Podesta’s response, through a spokesperson, was “The truth is out there,” the tagline for the TV show “The X-Files” of which Podesta was known to be a fan.

A 2010 editorial in Missouri’s Columbia Tribune disparaged reports that Podesta had asked an outspoken UFO photographer to stop discussing his knowledge of extraterrestrial activities in public.

“One wonders why Podesta would do such a radical reversal, given his former plea for UFO disclosure,” the editorial implored.

But contrary to the Columbia Tribune’s concerns, Podesta had clearly not abandoned the cause. He wrote an introduction to the 2010 book “UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record.”

Unfortunately, Podesta will likely have little time to fill out FOIA requests in his new job at Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. Perhaps, as his tweet suggests, he’s passing the torch to New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd.
 
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Apparently Merck's integrity is also being brought into question, as the primary producer of The MMR vaccine in the U.S. it's not so great there is a pending law suit claiming they falsify test results of effectiveness.

Not the best sources, however the stories contain links to reputable information as well as the full lawsuit in pdf form. A CDC official is also involved.

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/2...h-there-are-greater-dangers-than-anti-vaxxers

http://medcitynews.com/2015/02/natu...falsified-mumps-rubella-measles-vaccine-data/

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skep...umps-motions-whistleblowers-the-actual-story/
 
What's the basis of this - did the MMR scare affect over there too?
It's happening in Canada too, lots of schools in Toronto and Vancouver where rich liberals think they're smarter than the medical community and don't vaccinate their kids.
 
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