America - The Official Thread

[Joel]

Which makes it even more distasteful to me. As if an autistic child is worse than one with a deadly illness.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

The sad thing is that most of the Autism fears were caused by Dr. Andrew Wakefield falsifying his research with the MMR vaccine to state that claim. In my opinion, his "findings" really kickstarted the anti-vaccine hysteria that we unfortunately have to deal with now.

 

[Dotini]

Which makes it even more distasteful to me. As if an autistic child is worse than one with a deadly illness.

Like many in my generation, I had measles as a lad, and recovered in a few days. The autistic may face a lifetime of dependence.

The sad thing is that most of the Autism fears were caused by Dr. Andrew Wakefield falsifying his research with the MMR vaccine to state that claim. In my opinion, his "findings" really kickstarted the anti-vaccine hysteria that we unfortunately have to deal with now.

While it is true that there is fear and hysteria among some of over-vaccination, too much vaccine too early, or even any vaccine at all, the fear of autism is due to unexplained and rapid increase in the prevalence of autism. Last time i checked, it was about 1 in 70 male births, and 1 in 300 female births.

 

[Joel]

Like many in my generation, I had measles as a lad, and recovered in a few days. The autistic may face a lifetime of dependence.

I get what you're saying, I think the issue is that vaccination has worked so well most people haven't been exposed to these diseases. Measles, whooping cough, mumps, they're old timey diseases that happened to people 60 years ago in history books. There isn't (or wasn't until recently) a genuine fear of your child catching measles so if you were under the belief they could cause autism you'd probably stay away. Whenever there's polls done on this it's really only younger people who are a part of this movement, older generations have memories of people permanently disabled from polio which tends to be a pretty convincing argument for the merits of vaccines.

It's a really selfish and frustrating way of thinking though, people don't vaccinate their children because vaccination has largely eliminated the threat of many of these diseases. The sad part is that because of that we're now seeing things like babies and young children catching measles and whooping cough which can be very dangerous, the parents of unvaccinated indigo children have almost single handedly brought measles back to the US and Canada. Babies, immunodeficient people, and people with allergies to certain vaccines rely on everyone else being vaccinated so a disease doesn't spread and to minimize the risk of exposure. Unfortunately now we have private schools basically serving as petri dishes for these diseases.

the fear of autism is due to unexplained and rapid increase in the prevalence of autism. Last time i checked, it was about 1 in 70 male births, and 1 in 300 female births.

I don't really think autism is rapidly increasing, it's just becoming more recognized as a legitimate condition and parents/teachers are watching out for it. The cynical side of the coin is parents using it to excuse bad behaviour, like the overdiagnosis of ADD/ADHD in the 90's. Virtually every mental illness/disorder has been rapidly increasing in the rate of diagnosis, but I don't believe that means more people are suffering from them than before.

 

[Dotini]

I get what you're saying, I think the issue is that vaccination has worked so well most people haven't been exposed to these diseases. Measles, whooping cough, mumps, they're old timey diseases that happened to people 60 years ago in history books. There isn't (or wasn't until recently) a genuine fear of your child catching measles so if you were under the belief they could cause autism you'd probably stay away. Whenever there's polls done on this it's really only younger people who are a part of this movement, older generations have memories of people permanently disabled from polio which tends to be a pretty convincing argument for the merits of vaccines.

It's a really selfish and frustrating way of thinking though, people don't vaccinate their children because vaccination has largely eliminated the threat of many of these diseases. The sad part is that because of that we're now seeing things like babies and young children catching measles and whooping cough which can be very dangerous, the parents of unvaccinated indigo children have almost single handedly brought measles back to the US and Canada. Babies, immunodeficient people, and people with allergies to certain vaccines rely on everyone else being vaccinated so a disease doesn't spread and to minimize the risk of exposure. Unfortunately now we have private schools basically serving as petri dishes for these diseases.


I don't really think autism is rapidly increasing, it's just becoming more recognized as a legitimate condition and parents/teachers are watching out for it. The cynical side of the coin is parents using it to excuse bad behaviour, like the overdiagnosis of ADD/ADHD in the 90's. Virtually every mental illness/disorder has been rapidly increasing in the rate of diagnosis, but I don't believe that means more people are suffering from them than before.

I don't disagree. I've had all my necessary vaccinations, and then some.

 

[Scaff]

Like many in my generation, I had measles as a lad, and recovered in a few days. The autistic may face a lifetime of dependence.

You were one of the fortunate ones, however Autism has a fatality rate of zero (1), the same isn't true of measles. By vaccinating against Measles its incident rate (and therefore fatalities) can be massively reduced. However by not vaccinating the reduction in cases of Autism will be zero.

While it is true that there is fear and hysteria among some of over-vaccination, too much vaccine too early, or even any vaccine at all, the fear of autism is due to unexplained and rapid increase in the prevalence of autism. Last time i checked, it was about 1 in 70 male births, and 1 in 300 female births.

Oddly enough you can say the same about Organic food consumption...

....thus illustrating that correlation doesn't indicate causation (unless you want to do a Wakefield and falsify the data).


(1) - The mortality rate for people with Autism and other conditions is higher than the general population, however that is due to the difficultly in treating other conditions among those with autism, not as a result if Autism itself.

 

[Joel]

I think we should stop our navies patrolling the horn of Africa, Somalian pirates may be the only way to reverse the trend of global warming.

 

[FoolKiller]

Like many in my generation, I had measles as a lad, and recovered in a few days. The autistic may face a lifetime of dependence.

Autism is not contagious or fatal. Measles are.

While it is true that there is fear and hysteria among some of over-vaccination, too much vaccine too early, or even any vaccine at all, the fear of autism is due to unexplained and rapid increase in the prevalence of autism. Last time i checked, it was about 1 in 70 male births, and 1 in 300 female births.

There is a lot of correlation between different variables and autism. Age of the mother, food consumed by the mother, and so on. It is not unreasonable to spread vaccines out over a year instead of doing six inoculations at once, but to swear off of them with zero true scientific data is stupidity at best. When your movement's main spokesperson only became famous because she was a Playboy playmate the first thing every intelligent person should do is raise questions as to the validity of the claims.

What kind of parent says, "Medical training vs nude photos? Nude photos wins. No, I don't need to understand the issue further. She showed me her boobies when I was a teenager. I trust her."

 

[Dotini]

Although autism is not fatal, its cost to society can be high, as a parent may be forced to forego a career or other interests in order to provide care to the dependent autistic.

 

[FoolKiller]

Although autism is not fatal, its cost to society can be high, as a parent may be forced to forego a career or other interests in order to provide care to the dependent autistic.

But they don't harm anyone else along the way for a very unscientific fear.


EDIT: Or to put it a different way. Would they prefer their child die or have autism?

 

[Dennisch]

Although autism is not fatal, its cost to society can be high, as a parent may be forced to forego a career or other interests in order to provide care to the dependent autistic.

To keep this discussion going we really need some sort of evidence that vaccines actually cause autism.

Otherwise it's just a "this illness is worse than this one" back and forth.

 

[DK]

The sad thing is that most of the Autism fears were caused by Dr. Andrew Wakefield falsifying his research with the MMR vaccine to state that claim. In my opinion, his "findings" really kickstarted the anti-vaccine hysteria that we unfortunately have to deal with now.

I'm being honest here: if I were to come face-to-face with "Dr." Wakefield, I'd slap him in the face.

 

[Sanji Himura]

The Fort Hood shooting in 2009 has now been reclassified by the Army as terrorism. As a result, they, the Army, will award the Purple Heart to the 32 wounded and the 13 dead. The civilians that were wounded, meanwhile, will earn the Defense of Freedom medal.

Obama classified the Ft. Hood shooting as an incident of "workplace violence", to the majority of Americans including myself, as a ploy to avoid an terrorist attack on American soil on his watch. It took an act of Congress to put the shooting victims on the same level as 9/11 victims, and were made eligible for the medals.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The Fort Hood shooting in 2009 has now been reclassified by the Army as terrorism. As a result, they, the Army, will award the Purple Heart to the 32 wounded and the 13 dead. The civilians that were wounded, meanwhile, will earn the Defense of Freedom medal.

Obama classified the Ft. Hood shooting as an incident of "workplace violence", to the majority of Americans including myself, as a ploy to avoid an terrorist attack on American soil on his watch. It took an act of Congress to put the shooting victims on the same level as 9/11 victims, and were made eligible for the medals.

About time. 👍👍

 

[Liquid]

Does that make George Bush Sr the last President to not have a terrorist incident on his watch? Oklahoma bombing must have happened under Clinton.

 

[FoolKiller]

Does that make George Bush Sr the last President to not have a terrorist incident on his watch? Oklahoma bombing must have happened under Clinton.

And the first time al-Qaeda attempted to bomb the WTC with a bomb in the parking garage.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Does that make George Bush Sr the last President to not have a terrorist incident on his watch? Oklahoma bombing must have happened under Clinton.

If you mean on American soil, then probably. Oklahoma was in 95' I think.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Does that make George Bush Sr the last President to not have a terrorist incident on his watch? Oklahoma bombing must have happened under Clinton.

Yes. WTC Bombing happened in '93, about a month after Clinton took office and the Oklahoma City Bombing happened in '95.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Oh, lovely Chicago Illinois, where our civil rights go to die apparently.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ack-site-where-americans-are-detained-report/

 

[Keef]

apparently.

I thought that had been common knowledge for decades now.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Jonathan Gruber is in trouble again. This time it wasn't his mouth that got him into trouble, but rather this time he is facing possible criminal allegations. The Vermont State Auditor noticed some improprieties while auditing the state's single payer healthcare plan. The hours worked by his research assistants to present an economic plan for the system was overbilled.

The matter is referred to the Attorney General for investigation into possible criminal charges.

You can read the state auditor's letter by way of this link:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...nesty-and-this-time-it-could-be-more-serious/

 

[Dennisch]

Dammit, Tyrone!

 

[Sanji Himura]

An sheriff's deputy was caught proposing quotas in a Michigan county, and was reprimanded for it. The not so funny truth was, the county commissioners actually voted to impose them.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...unty-meeting-has-him-facing-fierce-reprimand/

News Update 3/3/15 7:45pm EST: One Texas town fired the entire police force. Now the policing is entirely privatized and saw a 61% reduction in crime in over nearly 2 years that the private force has been on the job. Best part is, the new police force has saved the town $200,000 a year over conventional police.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...rity-guess-what-reportedly-happened-to-crime/

 

[Joel]

Apparently Krispy Kreme has just been gutted this quarter though.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Actually, where the two services differ is in their patrol schedules. A public police force have a 70/30 patrol rate, where they patrol 70% of their time and spend the remainder doing paper work to fill the red tape. Where SEAL Security departs from that is that they actually look at crime statistics for a particular area to determine where to send their officers out to patrol. For example, let's say that area A has a 35% increase in robberies in the last month. By seeing that data, SEAL can now have a more focused patrol schedule to get crime in area A down. I stress that they have hired more officers, true enough, but the key point to all of this is everyone is accountable to somebody, and by being in the private sector, they can actually lose their jobs more easily than the public police force for misconduct.

 

[FoolKiller]

Ferguson is back in the news.

The Justice Department has pointed out a pattern of racial bias found in their investigation of Ferguson police.

"Our investigation showed that Ferguson police officers routinely violate the Fourth Amendment in stopping people without reasonable suspicion, arresting them without probable cause, and using unreasonable force against them," Attorney General Eric Holder, who heads the Justice Department, said in a statement. "Now that our investigation has reached its conclusion, it is time for Ferguson’s leaders to take immediate, wholesale, and structural corrective action."

One of the issues they found were internal emails that included racist jokes passed between police and court officials. Instead of any action being taken to stop them, they were forwarded in to others.

Here are the seven emails the Justice Department uncovered, all of which come from current employees and were apparently sent during work hours:

• A November 2008 email said President Barack Obama won't be president for long because "what black man holds a steady job for four years."
• A March 2010 email mocked African Americans with horrible stereotypes about their families and how they speak. One line of the email read, "I be so glad that dis be my last child support payment! Month after month, year after year, all dose payments!"
• An April 2011 email depicted President Obama as a chimpanzee.
• A May 2011 email said, "An African-American woman in New Orleans was admitted into the hospital for a pregnancy termination. Two weeks later she received a check for $5,000. She phoned the hospital to ask who it was from. The hospital said, 'Crimestoppers.'"
• A June 2011 email said a man wanted to obtain "welfare" for his dogs because they are "mixed in color, unemployed, lazy, can't speak English and have no frigging clue who their Daddies are."
• An October 2011 email had a photo of a bare-chested group of dancing women, apparently in Africa, with the caption, "Michelle Obama's High School Reunion."
• A December 2011 email made jokes based off offensive stereotypes about Muslims.

Assuming the Justice Department is accurate, and this is not just Holder leaving a legacy for himself, this adds a new background perspective to the Michael Brown incident. Whether the shooting was justified or not, the riots and the public reaction to the police was a inevitable outcome of the mindset and actions of Ferguson Police. It sounds like they brought this all on themselves.



In other sad police news: Remember Tamir Rice, the 12-year-old playing with a toy gun in a park that police shot dead before their car even stopped? The family sued and the Vity of Cleveland was one of the defendants listed. The City of Cleveland gave their response (PDF) last week.

Some of their defenses stand out.

215. Plaintiffs’ decedent’s injuries, losses, and damages complained of, were directly
and proximately caused by the failure of Plaintiffs’ decedent to exercise due care to avoid injury.

216. Plaintiffs’ decedent’s injuries, losses, and damages complained of, were directly and proximately caused by the acts of Plaintiffs’ decedent, not this Defendant.

217. Plaintiffs’ injuries, losses, and damages complained of, were directly and proximately caused by their own acts, not this Defendant.

So, I guess he did have it coming.

 

[Johnnypenso]

One of the issues they found were internal emails that included racist jokes passed between police and court officials. Instead of any action being taken to stop them, they were forwarded in to others.


Assuming the Justice Department is accurate, and this is not just Holder leaving a legacy for himself, this adds a new background perspective to the Michael Brown incident. Whether the shooting was justified or not, the riots and the public reaction to the police was a inevitable outcome of the mindset and actions of Ferguson Police. It sounds like they brought this all on themselves.



In other sad police news: Remember Tamir Rice, the 12-year-old playing with a toy gun in a park that police shot dead before their car even stopped? The family sued and the Vity of Cleveland was one of the defendants listed. The City of Cleveland gave their response (PDF) last week.

Some of their defenses stand out.



So, I guess he did have it coming.

If you pulled the private communications in any organization anywhere in the world, it probably wouldn't look much different. I've seen many jokes that made the rounds at City Hall and various government agencies, the post office etc. and many of them would make you blush. Doesn't make it right, but making a joke about someone or something, doesn't necessarily mean you treat them any differently in real life. Many of us are capable of chuckling at a joke and then not going out and changing our behavour in response to 5 seconds we spent looking at something in an email.

The legalese you quoted is just that, legalese. Things are worded certain ways in all legal documents, it shouldn't be judged in the same way as general communication.

 

[Sanji Himura]

A reportedly homeless man was shot by LAPD on Sunday may have lied about his background, according to the French Consulate. The man, supposedly named "Africa" Charley Saturmin Robinet, a supposedly French national, may have entered this country more than 15 years ago on a false visa (or rather a legitimate visa on a fake passport). He also committed an armed robbery in 2000, an offense that should have gotten him deported, to finance his "Hollywood Dream". He was released for that crime in May of last year.

http://downtrend.com/71superb/homel...al-alien?utm_source=fnot1&utm_medium=facebook

 

[FoolKiller]

If you pulled the private communications in any organization anywhere in the world, it probably wouldn't look much different. I've seen many jokes that made the rounds at City Hall and various government agencies, the post office etc. and many of them would make you blush. Doesn't make it right, but making a joke about someone or something, doesn't necessarily mean you treat them any differently in real life. Many of us are capable of chuckling at a joke and then not going out and changing our behavour in response to 5 seconds we spent looking at something in an email.

I work for government. That does not fly around here. If I had even one of those in my email I would be reprimanded and forced to take sensitivity training, if not fired. And they do monitor for inappropriate usage.

Of course, you chose to ignore that the emails were part of a larger report showing an overall pattern of racism both behind closed doors and in the act of publicly performing their duty, including violating constitutional rights.

The legalese you quoted is just that, legalese. Things are worded certain ways in all legal documents, it shouldn't be judged in the same way as general communication.

Referring to Tamir Rice? Please, explain how that translates into layman's terms. I'm sure, based on your comment, that it must be something compassionate and not blaming a minor for his own death.

It's not the language at issue. It's the content.

A reportedly homeless man was shot by LAPD on Sunday may have lied about his background, according to the French Consulate. The man, supposedly named "Africa" Charley Saturmin Robinet, a supposedly French national, may have entered this country more than 15 years ago on a false visa (or rather a legitimate visa on a fake passport). He also committed an armed robbery in 2000, an offense that should have gotten him deported, to finance his "Hollywood Dream". He was released for that crime in May of last year.

This relates to his death...how? He wasn't shot during the robbery or an immigration raid.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Referring to Tamir Rice? Please, explain how that translates into layman's terms. I'm sure, based on your comment, that it must be something compassionate and not blaming a minor for his own death.

It's not the language at issue. It's the content.

The language is the content. Legalese is not meant to be compassionate or understanding, that's not it's purpose. It's a dry analysis of the facts as one side or the other sees them. They could have said, "look we got a report of someone walking around pointing a gun at people, jumped out of the car, thought we were going to get shot, so we shot him first" . , but that wouldn't fly in court would it?

This relates to his death...how? He wasn't shot during the robbery or an immigration raid.

It's background information. You're not allowed to report anything on a victim that isn't directly related to the incident in question? He didn't exist before the day he was shot?