America - The Official Thread

[xyloscissor]

Its got nothing to do with what I think. That is how the Exec Order is written. Have you actually read it?

Yes I have read it and know what it says, Often times there is wording in our laws that leave them open to interpretation. Sometimes it's done on purpose, sometimes it's sloppy, and sometimes it cannot be avoided. In any event.

The two orders are written specifically about illegal immigrants, if they're abused that abuse will be corrected. It's simply not what you think even though I do agree it would have been better to use the words "illegal aliens".

 

[Scaff]

Just to note, our local paper has a "Round up" section that, on a daily basis, lists all the arrests including names and crimes they've committed. It provides public awareness as to what's going on.

Should that not be allegedly committed?

That concept seems to be very much at odds with the idea of innocent until proven guilty.

 

[IforceV8]

I predict a rash of building inspectors showing up at all Trump properties in NYC very soon. Watching Trump tower being cleared of all tenants after failed inspections would be must see TV.

 

[Pako]

Nothing promotes compassion and trust within a community like a public name-and-shame every day.*

* - To be clear, I most certainly believe the public should be made aware of certain arrests and crimes committed. But I don't really believe its necessary for every single one.

With all the criticisms Trump was getting pre-election and now that he's in office, I believe it is necessary and even required to just

Should that not be allegedly committed?

That concept seems to be very much at odds with the idea of innocent until proven guilty.

They list arrests.

 

[Scaff]

Yes I have read it and know what it says, Often times there is wording in our laws that leave them open to interpretation. Sometimes it's done on purpose, sometimes it's sloppy, and sometimes it cannot be avoided. In any event.

This could certainly have been avoided, after all publicly the focus on illegal aliens has been quite clear, so its odd that hasn't been avoided. Sloppy would be to have an inconsistent approach to how its worded, that's not the case here, its 100% consistent in the definition used. which only leaves one option.

The two orders are written specifically about illegal immigrants, if they're abused that abuse will be corrected. It's simply not what you think even though I do agree it would have been better to use the words "illegal aliens".

How do you know is 'simply not what you think'? To know that you would need to be inside the mind of both the author of the order and me, your not and neither am I. which is exactly why I have stuck to the text of the order and waht it says from the standpoint of the actualy wording and the legal definitions of them.

The stated target publicly is those who are in the US illegally, yet for the entire Exec Order to fail to mention Illegal Aliens even once seems to be at odds with that.

They list arrests.

Alongside crimes arrested for and names; which risks setting a public perception of guilt.

 

[DK]

Should that not be allegedly committed?

That concept seems to be very much at odds with the idea of innocent until proven guilty.

What do you expect from a guy who still thinks the Central Park 5 were guilty?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Mexican President Nieto has cancelled his planned meeting with Trump. According to CNN, Nieto's current approval rating is 12% FYI.

 

[xyloscissor]

@Scaff

Don't worry, we will soon see how it goes, for one thing you cannot keep out visa holders with a wall, you cannot deport them for being in the country either. Now there are provisions in which their visa can be revoked. Trump is not going to cut off money for giving a visa holder whatever he is entitled to under the law and the visa holder would have no reason not to state he holds one.

I'll let you win this argument because you win all the arguments 👍

===

Mexican President Nieto has cancelled his planned meeting with Trump. According to CNN, Nieto's current approval rating is 12% FYI.

How did the visit from Mexico go, what was it, some big diplomat this week right? I've not kept up with that story.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

With all the criticisms Trump was getting pre-election and now that he's in office, I believe it is necessary and even required to just

I think something got cut off there, Pako!

I'm not sure what criticism of Trump has to do with it: there's been groups critical of every president-elect before they've been sworn in (and during their terms).

 

[Blitz24]

I think something got cut off there, Pako!

I'm not sure what criticism of Trump has to do with it: there's been groups critical of every president-elect before they've been sworn in (and during their terms).

I think its a consequence of getting older and media proliferation into our daily lives is becoming more and more evidence.

 

[Johnnypenso]

How did the visit from Mexico go, what was it, some big diplomat this week right? I've not kept up with that story.

The visit was scheduled for next week, now cancelled. Mexico doesn't believe in walls according to Nieto. I guess they don't want to stop all those illegal Americans flooding over the border.

 

[xyloscissor]

The visit was scheduled for next week, now cancelled. Mexico doesn't believe in walls according to Nieto. I guess they don't want to stop all those illegal Americans flooding over the border.

It seems to be over who will pay for border improvements or in other words THE WALL lol. We already spend way more than they do to patrol it so oh well. Nieto fails to realize if he doesn't at least have talks, Trump will more or less write the country off when considering trade. I'm sure we have a fairly large deficit with them.

 

[BobK]

The visit was scheduled for next week, now cancelled. Mexico doesn't believe in walls according to Nieto. I guess they don't want to stop all those illegal Americans flooding over the border.

More to the point, they want to keep that flow of dollars coming that they send back home.

 

[Pako]

I think something got cut off there, Pako!

I'm not sure what criticism of Trump has to do with it: there's been groups critical of every president-elect before they've been sworn in (and during their terms).

Oops. Probably doesn't matter, but I was going to say it will provide support to justify his deportation policies.

 

[Legro]

The visit was scheduled for next week, now cancelled. Mexico doesn't believe in walls according to Nieto. I guess they don't want to stop all those illegal Americans flooding over the border.

If any of the news sources I've seen regarding this are to be trusted, it's more along the lines of 'Mexico doesn't believe in paying for the walls'.

 

[Scaff]

State department's entirely senior management team resign.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-...rtments-senior-management-team-resigns-report

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The doomsday clock has been moved forward thirty seconds and now sits at two and a half minutes to midnight - the closest that it has been to midnight since 1953. Trump has been cited as one of the leading reasons for the move.

 

[Pako]

State department's entirely senior management team resign.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-...rtments-senior-management-team-resigns-report

So 4 people resign and “It’s the single biggest simultaneous departure of institutional memory that anyone can remember, and that’s incredibly difficult to replicate,”

Did I read that right?

 

[xyloscissor]

Did I read that right?

In other news, they just opened a new Taco Bell down the street, they gave away free tacos for a whole day.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Scientists Are Creating An Online "Resistance" Movement Against Trump Administration

👍

 

[prousonhairy]

The doomsday clock has been moved forward thirty seconds and now sits at two and a half minutes to midnight - the closest that it has been to midnight since 1953. Trump has been cited as one of the leading reasons for the move.

The Doomsday Clock is a joke. So the worlds in more danger now, than during the Vietnam war? Or the Cuban Missle Crisis, when The USSR had nuclear missles parked in Cuba aimed at the US?

 

[xyloscissor]

Scientists Are Creating An Online "Resistance" Movement Against Trump Administration

👍

What they should do is get organized and create their own website where they can teach the public all about their concerns and why they have them. I would like to see that, that way our federal employees can get back to what we pay them to do.

 

[CodeRedR51]

that way our federal employees can get back to what we pay them to do.

Elaborate.

 

[Scaff]

So 4 people resign and “It’s the single biggest simultaneous departure of institutional memory that anyone can remember, and that’s incredibly difficult to replicate,”

Did I read that right?

If it was four low level staffers I would agree with you, however this is arguably akin to a company board resigning on mass.

 

[xyloscissor]

Elaborate.

They could show their credentials, share peer reviewed studies, share articles, and give opinions on a variety of subjects such as global warming, fracking, pollution, space travel, the sun, they are scientists right? They could have a political section sharing how our government is going. So many things they could do if they put their mind to it.

Hateful tweeting not being on the top of my list however.

Oops I elaborated the wrong part, no elaboration is needed for expecting federal organizations to simply do what they are hired to do, we don't need them all sitting on twitter, writing blah blah on web pages or any of that. If they want to be activists they should be activists and if they want to be teachers they should be teachers, if they want to science, they should science.

I don't know why I wasted my time with that.

If it was four low level staffers I would agree with you, however this is arguably akin to a company board resigning on mass.

It's not very newsworthy, I don't even think it was meant to stage any sort of protest. They are not that special in the scheme of things, what do they do so important that others cannot step in and do just as well?

 

[Pako]

If it was four low level staffers I would agree with you, however this is arguably akin to a company board resigning on mass.

So I did read it right then. 👍

 

[Scaff]

They could show their credentials, share peer reviewed studies, share articles, and give opinions on a variety of subjects such as global warming, fracking, pollution, space travel, the sun, they are scientists right? They could have a political section sharing how our government is going. So many things they could do if they put their mind to it.

So they could do things that they seem to have been stopped doing?

It's not very newsworthy, I don't even think it was meant to stage any sort of protest. They are not that special in the scheme of things, what do they do so important that others cannot step in and do just as well?

The press around the world disagree in quite a fundamental way, as the senior management team that have served under numerous Presidents from both sides of the house.

They have experience and understanding of how America deals with the rest of the world that is not easily replaced.

You seem to think it is however easy, so please feel free to throw some names in the hat who have a level of experience in this role who could replace them.

 

[xyloscissor]

So they could do things that they seem to have been stopped doing?

Yes.

The press around the world disagree in quite a fundamental way, as the senior management team that have served under numerous Presidents from both sides of the house.

They have experience and understanding of how America deals with the rest of the world that is not easily replaced.

You seem to think it is however easy, so please feel free to throw some names in the hat who have a level of experience in this role who could replace them.

Why should americans care what press from around the world think? Don't get me wrong I'm not completely dismissing it mostly because it doesn't indicate a smooth transition but really, so what? Kerry was terrible and Clinton was even worse, so why should we care about their staff quitting?

It's actually funny, but it's not so news worthy and this thread is getting clogged with every little nitpick thing that happens every single time a new president takes office.

I wan't to know the name of the Trump's family dog, and what he had for dinner last night. I wan't to see dog size compared between him and Obama, I want a health comparison between his first meal in the white house and Obama's.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

What they should do is get organized and create their own website where they can teach the public all about their concerns and why they have them. I would like to see that, that way our federal employees can get back to what we pay them to do.

What we—er, you, I suppose—pay them to do, and what the government is now pressuring them to do, are two very different things.

I wan't to know the name of the Trump's family dog, and what he had for dinner last night. I wan't to see dog size compared between him and Obama, I want a health comparison between his first meal in the white house and Obama's.

Ah, we've entered strawman territory. Took a while.

 

[Scaff]

Yes.

How exactly are they going to manage to do that then?

These alternative accounts have been set up because they have been stopped from posting exactly what you say they should focus on. Not to mention that's mainly what they are using the alternative accounts for.

Why should americans care what press from around the world think? Don't get me wrong I'm not completely dismissing it mostly because it doesn't indicate a smooth transition but really, so what? Kerry was terrible and Clinton was even worse, so why should we care about there staff quitting?

It's actually funny, but it's not so news worthy and this thread is getting clogged with every little nitpick thing that happens every single time a new president takes office.

I wan't to know the name of the Trump's family dog, and what he had for dinner last night. I wan't to see dog size compared between him and Obama, I want a health comparison between his first meal in the white house and Obama's.

Which would be why it broke in the US media first, and they are not political appointments, they have served under numerous Presidents from both parties (as I have already said).

This doesn't happen every time a new president takes office, because as I have already said, they were not political appointments and have all served under numerous Presidents from both parties.

Now as for it not being a protest, that I'm not so sure about, given that a choice the new administration made (that goes against the transition norm) mean the US currently has no ambassadors in a number of countries.