America - The Official Thread
- Thread starter ///M-Spec
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- Ireland
- driftking18594
- CiaranGTR94
As if that's enough for the Trumpster Fire.
Trump's only mad because it's not him ordering the wiretap.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I thought that was an accusation of tapping embassies/foreign citizens? Completely different accusation... and using a Russian state-funded news channel maybe isn't the best source. The Daily Mail could be more reliable.
There are a number of issues here that are being muddied into one. They should all be questioned and they should all be answered.
Did US citizens hold meetings with Russian officials of any stature? If they did then why might the US not be interested in that? You can bet that if Obama-affiliated citizens met Russian officals in the run-up to his first election that the same questions would be asked (and should equally be answered).
Given that the Russians show far more skill in media manipulation than most Western governments is it fair to ask whether they use media output to manipulate events abroad, and does that include foreign elections (not just in the US)? I've never seen America ripping itself apart at the seams so much - that would be a good outcome for other superpowers.
The problem (as I see it) with the current administration is that it simply can not be questioned without whirling up into an apoplectic paddy of recrimination and reciprocal mud-slinging. Not really the atmosphere for asking serious questions about serious issues in the modern political sphere.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
What's troubling is that it's being offered as some kind of proof that Obama did it in this specific instance.
- 24,617
- Anoka, MN
That's an odd thing to hear coming from someone that tried arguing that Pence's leaked emails were a national security risk based on the fact ISIS allegedly used GTA as a recruiting tool.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
You know perfectly well what I meant by that - that if ISIS were willing to use GTA as a recruiting tool, then there's very little that they won't do, so why not use the e-mails of a governor?That's an odd thing to hear coming from someone that tried arguing that Pence's leaked emails were a national security risk based on the fact ISIS allegedly used GTA as a recruiting tool.
Besides, it doesn't change the way that the allegations against Obama are being held up as proof of his actions here. While prior bad acts may be admissible as evidence in a court of law, they are only admissible under certain conditions and are regarded as circumstantial evidence at best.
- 24,617
- Anoka, MN
We've gone over this already, so yeah, I don't have time to play your little run-around game.
Even though I don't believe Trump in this instance, the fact he posted it at a rather random time tells me perhaps he found something out. He is privy to quite a bit of information now so perhaps he was alerted to some surveillance program and his ego being what it is immediately inserted him into it.
- 3,308
- Kentucky
- Chrunch_Houston
When I first saw Trump's tweets about wire tapping, I didn't believe them. In Trump's mind the whole Russian thing is fake news. I thought this was just Trump's way of sticking it right back at them.
Now after watching this video, I am not so sure.
Mark Levin is well respected in conservative circles here in the US. Here he makes a very compelling case that the
Obama administration was spying on the Trump campaign.
Now after watching this video, I am not so sure.
Mark Levin is well respected in conservative circles here in the US. Here he makes a very compelling case that the
Obama administration was spying on the Trump campaign.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Or maybe it's just a diversion. Trump was riding a wave of support following his speech to Congress, but then came crashing back to reality within days as the public became preoccupied with Sessions and Pence. All of the goodwill that Trump had seemingly built up was forgotten, and so he would want to change the subject. Obama is an easy target because Trump has already demonstrated dislike towards him, and Obama cannot let himself get too embroiled in the conversation because former Presidents don't like to be seen as interfering with their successors' administrations. Issuing a statement denying it is about the most that he can do.
On top of that, there is a precedent whereby Trump's claims could have some basis in reality. Both Flynn and Sessions were in contact with the Russians during the campaign, and the Justice Department were looking for evidence of Russian interference in the election. It stands to reason that they could have wire-tapped Trump, although it would require a federal warrant and James Clapper denies any knowledge of one being issued.
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- United States
- kudos00
Nobody's pissed off this entire administration is motivated to crap on our doorstep?
GOP to NASA: Forget Climate Science, Focus on Space - smh, let's get rid of satellite data recording. after all, what you don't know won't hurt you.
http://www.ecowatch.com/nasa-climate-change-2274296275.html
Trump signs bill undoing Obama coal mining rule - allow the contamination of our rivers, sounds like a plan
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/319938-trump-signs-bill-undoing-obama-coal-mining-rule
Trump proposing massive cuts to Great Lakes fund - the Great Lakes aren't worth a damn, why waste money to keep them clean for our fishies and Canada can worry about it a little more now
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/news03/trump-proposing-massive-cuts-to-great-lakes-fund-20170305
In case you don't know what the Great Lakes are, let's start here: http://wiki.kidzsearch.com/wiki/Great_Lakes
Keystone pipeline won't use US steel despite Trump pledge - Trump is the most honest and loyal businessman I have ever seen, such a humanitarian and never lies to his voters
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...e-wont-use-us-steel-despite-trump-pledge.html
The most recent are Jeff Sessions and the son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Kushner was with Michael Flynn when they met Ambassador Kislyak. Kislyak is the guy Sessions had the normal, "nothing to see here" meeting with.
GOP to NASA: Forget Climate Science, Focus on Space - smh, let's get rid of satellite data recording. after all, what you don't know won't hurt you.
http://www.ecowatch.com/nasa-climate-change-2274296275.html
Trump signs bill undoing Obama coal mining rule - allow the contamination of our rivers, sounds like a plan
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/319938-trump-signs-bill-undoing-obama-coal-mining-rule
Trump proposing massive cuts to Great Lakes fund - the Great Lakes aren't worth a damn, why waste money to keep them clean for our fishies and Canada can worry about it a little more now
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/news03/trump-proposing-massive-cuts-to-great-lakes-fund-20170305
In case you don't know what the Great Lakes are, let's start here: http://wiki.kidzsearch.com/wiki/Great_Lakes
Keystone pipeline won't use US steel despite Trump pledge - Trump is the most honest and loyal businessman I have ever seen, such a humanitarian and never lies to his voters
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...e-wont-use-us-steel-despite-trump-pledge.html
There have been more people who resigned because of their ties to Russia. Can't trust they won't put their interests ahead of the country's.
The most recent are Jeff Sessions and the son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Kushner was with Michael Flynn when they met Ambassador Kislyak. Kislyak is the guy Sessions had the normal, "nothing to see here" meeting with.
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- 3,308
- Kentucky
- Chrunch_Houston
NASA, The National Aeronautics and Space Administration, climate science is not their job. We have NOAA, The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration for that. We can't afford all of the redundancies in this government.
According to your source, Trump is undoing what Obama did in the last full month of his presidency, last December. Must have been a huge priority. It only took Obama 7 years and 11 months to get it done.
According to your source, this program was started under Obama in 2010. I guess President Clinton didn't think the Great Lakes were worth a damn, nor did Carter. Just more government bloat we can't afford.
According to your source, they have already bought the pipe, they already have the pipe. I guess they could throw it away, but wouldn't forging all of that new steal create a lot more green house gas? You don't have to answer that.
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- It's cold here
- The_EH_Team_43
Right because we can afford it too. Just because you can't afford it doesn't mean you should just not do it, cut something else like, I don't know, a little of the bajillions you spend on military. How about that stupid new fighter plane I've heard doesn't really work and has gone over budget by 163 billion according to the wiki page. There's a lot of things you guys are needlessly sinking money into and you're going to ignore one of the largest drinking water sources in the world at the cost of another country.
For reference, that plane's amount over budget is over half of the entire Canadian government's expenditures last year, which was close to 318 billion.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,500
- Texas
At least TenEightyOne responded to it with a logical argument.
Go back into your hole with this little snipe comment before you get embarrassed again.
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- Chrunch_Houston
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Having an aeronautics institute that can't study atmospheric change is like having a Navy that's only allowed to use roads. Where you do have a point is in the crossover, that's a good place to look for redundancy.
I'm not sure I follow the logic on that one... the earlier the Act the greater the validity? I'm not sure that washes, if you'll pardon the pun.
EDIT: I got that one wrong, the GLRI is additional to the Great Lakes fund which is state-level. My bad.
I still wonder why a country that loves it's outdoors as much as the USA would kill funding that protects it - there are many reasons why the USA is on so many people's bucket lists and it's certainly not all about the built-up areas.
It's worth answering. If they have the pipe to the right spec then why would they buy it again? The question is more about why wouldn't the President know that as late as last week and why would he still insist that Keystone XL will use Muricasteel?
- 24,617
- Anoka, MN
Yea..... no.
Invasive species are currently a very serious issue and the great lakes are where most have entered the U.S. since it's a major shipping route. It's currently at the point in MN at least where you can get fined if you fail to hose off your boat every time you leave a lake.
I'm all for trying to cut unnecessary spending, but if anything more money needs to be spent cleaning the great lakes.
- 3,308
- Kentucky
- Chrunch_Houston
How does climate change affect aeronautics? Planes fly when it is hot, and planes fly when it is cold. Maybe if the air froze solid...
According to the source provided by @another_jakhole.This program was started under George Bush Sr. in 1989, during the first month of his presidency. What's your early-Act rule again?
- 6,064
- Simcoeace
Crunch: the Great Lakes weren't "great before Obama" - they were a disaster in the past, have been improved due to concerted effort & investment, but still have serious problems. The $300 million allocated under the Obama budget has been cut to $10 million - about the amount spent by the US taxpayer to fund Trumps trips to Mar-a-Lago for the first month of his presidency. Of course, "the US taxpayer" doesn't include Trump himself.
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Joey D
Premium
- 47,431
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
While I'm against increased military funding, I think it needs to be pointed out the UK, Canada, the Netherlands, Italy, Australia, and a few other countries I can't think of are just as guilty with the JSF program. It's not just a US problem, it's a Lockheed Martin "swindle" that netted them a royal fortune. Even though I had a ton of investments with Lockheed (and ultimately allowed me to buy a car and a house), I still didn't agree with the program and it would have made more sense to just update our currently F-18's and F-16's, along with keeping the currently fleet of F-22's up and running.
I'm a Michigan native and spent countless weekends at the Great Lakes, they aren't great. Invasive species are destroying the ecosystem and some of the areas of the lakes are more polluted than others. They are better than they were when Lake Erie caught on fire, but they are still in rough shape. If the governor of Michigan was actually doing his job instead of running the state into the ground and outright getting rid of the representative process, then it would probably be less of an issue, but it still would be an issue.
When it comes to water, I'm less irritated about my tax dollars being spent to protect is since water will be the most coveted resource in the near future, especially if climate change continues like it has been.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
It's utterly mind-blowing to me how easily someone can dismiss the importance of making sure one of our largest sources of clean water stays that way.
This is a great example of how Trump's decisions affect other countries.
This is a great example of how Trump's decisions affect other countries.
- 6,259
- Tecumseh, MI
- I_Fail_At_FPS
- 5,351
- United States
- kudos00
NASA won't be the only ones to see funding diverted and slashed.
Budget cuts to NOAA threaten climate-monitoring satellite program
http://www.csmonitor.com/Environmen...threaten-climate-monitoring-satellite-program
"But the agency’s satellite data division would lose 22 percent of its funding, or $513 million... 'Cutting NOAA’s satellite budget will compromise NOAA’s mission of keeping Americans safe from extreme weather and providing forecasts that allow businesses and citizens to make smart plans,” former NOAA administrator Jane Lubchenco told the Washington Post. She added that 90 percent of the information for weather forecasts comes from satellites."
White House proposes steep budget cut to leading climate science agency
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...budget-cut-to-leading-climate-science-agency/
"Another proposed cut would eliminate a $73 million program called Sea Grant, which supports coastal research conducted through 33 university programs across the country. That includes institutions in many swing states that went for President Trump, such as the University of Wisconsin at Madison, the University of Michigan, Ohio State University, the University of Florida and North Carolina State University."
Again. Trump isn't doing all of this in the best interests of humanity. He isn't doing it for his voters. He didn't drain the swamp. When he brings up how much money he didn't waste like the previous administration, let's remember he's a sly businessman with interests of his own. #trumpuniversity #putinsrubberducky #yourethepuppet
Budget cuts to NOAA threaten climate-monitoring satellite program
http://www.csmonitor.com/Environmen...threaten-climate-monitoring-satellite-program
"But the agency’s satellite data division would lose 22 percent of its funding, or $513 million... 'Cutting NOAA’s satellite budget will compromise NOAA’s mission of keeping Americans safe from extreme weather and providing forecasts that allow businesses and citizens to make smart plans,” former NOAA administrator Jane Lubchenco told the Washington Post. She added that 90 percent of the information for weather forecasts comes from satellites."
White House proposes steep budget cut to leading climate science agency
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...budget-cut-to-leading-climate-science-agency/
"Another proposed cut would eliminate a $73 million program called Sea Grant, which supports coastal research conducted through 33 university programs across the country. That includes institutions in many swing states that went for President Trump, such as the University of Wisconsin at Madison, the University of Michigan, Ohio State University, the University of Florida and North Carolina State University."
Again. Trump isn't doing all of this in the best interests of humanity. He isn't doing it for his voters. He didn't drain the swamp. When he brings up how much money he didn't waste like the previous administration, let's remember he's a sly businessman with interests of his own. #trumpuniversity #putinsrubberducky #yourethepuppet
killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
Whoa there trigger. You guys have polluted the living hell out of Lake Erie,Michigan,Ontario,over the last 100 years,Erie turns to alge in August every year because of toxic farm runoff from the US. http://lakeeriealgae.com We're do you think this water goes? Over the Falls into Lake Ontario,which about 25 million people use for drinking water in Ontario and New York state.Does Flint Michigan jar your memory?
Now you have an Invasive fish called the Asian carp in your water system, it kills the fishing industry. You know those great lakes are mostly in Canada?We don't want it in Canada as we have a little more fresh water than the rest of the world.We also get all of your great pollution in the summer also.Fix your problems,we shouldn't have too.
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Joey D
Premium
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- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
Canada isn't guilt free is all of this, not by a long shot, they have contributed a significant amount of pollution in the Great Lakes too and ships coming into your harbors have dumped invasive species as well.
Here's even a study from your government that shows this:
https://www.canadiangeographic.ca/article/pollution-great-lakes
I'm also not so sure a majority of the Great Lakes are in Canada considering Lake Michigan is entirely in the US and the others lakes are mostly split between the US and Canada.
killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
- 24,617
- Anoka, MN
They go through the Canadian portion of the lakes long before they reach the U.S. portion (reaching a major port in Montreal in the process). Trying to argue that they play no role in the pollution resulting from ships is just idiotic.
And guess where a good chunk of that 35 million lives?
The U.S. may indeed contribute more pollution, but that doesn't mean we produce all of it.
Joey D
Premium
- 47,431
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
Uhh ships do come into Canadian harbors using the St. Lawrence Seaway and the Great Lakes and they bring in invasive species. I mean you do know Sault Ste Marie is a place right, as well as Windsor, Sarnia, Toronto, Montreal, and Port Stanely? According to this source, 32% of the Canadian population lives on the Great Lakes compared to 8% of the US population. To think Canada doesn't pollute the Great Lakes is ignorant.
I also never said the US doesn't pollute the Great Lakes, if you read my first post on the subject you'd see I blamed Michigan and their governor for not doing anything about it.
I'm also still waiting on proof the Great Lakes lie more in Canada than in the US, because looking at the boarder lines that doesn't really seem like it's the case.
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- Simcoeace
I'm not sure why killerjimbag is copping this attitude. There is undoubtedly less industrial pollution of the Great Lakes than there used to be - a partial consequence (& advantage) of the decreased manufacturing activity in the cities surrounding the Great Lakes. A lot of the problems now come from agricultural run-off, which surely originates as much from the Canadian side of the lakes as from the US.
And the Lakers that travel up & down the St Lawrence, through the Welland canal & beyond are by no means exclusively American.
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- Lincoln, NE
- huskeR_32
Then maybe you shouldn't have brought it up again?
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The GLRI in particular didn't, but similar programs did, notably the Great Lakes Legacy Act signed by President Bush in 2002, which included more than $300 million in funding.
Your insinuation that the lakes were left alone, and were fine, until Obama came along pushing some radical and unnecessary agenda is just blatantly false.
See above.
Try and look past your "environmentalism is liberal, and therefore stupid" bias for a minute.
Not if Trump's proposed cuts go forward.
