America - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter ///M-Spec
  • 39,219 comments
  • 1,750,050 views
To be fair, he is right to be concerned about people being childishly labeled and generalised based on which politician they do/don't support - particularly when the latest example of it is staring us right in the face:

killerjimbag
So in general,yes,it's time for all parties involved that lost, to put on their big boy/girl (insert gender here) pants or dress or whatever turns your crank,on,crawl out of their parents basement, stop smashing,burning,looting,infringing on free speech and maybe get a job and get on with their lives. Perhaps help pay back that loan to their parents, for the education they have, that can't find them a job,that Trump is trying to create.
Click to expand...
 
killerjimbag
Oh perhaps it's his Flight ban,that was signed by Obama in 2015.
http://www.snopes.com/trump-immigration-order-obama/
Click to expand...
You are aware that link doesn't support a claim that Obama signed a flight ban?

Quite the opposite actually.

The list of countries (some of them) originated from an Obama bill, but not the ban in travel (aside from additional vetting for those from Iraq, but that only slowed, not halted travel to the US from Iraq).
 
Scaff
You are aware that link doesn't support a claim that Obama signed a flight ban?

Quite the opposite actually.

The list of countries (some of them) originated from an Obama bill, but not the ban in travel (aside from additional vetting for those from Iraq, but that only slowed, not halted travel to the US from Iraq).
Click to expand...
Here let me rectify that for you.
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/internat...ement-and-terrorist-travel-prevention-act-faq.

What is the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015? Why is it necessary to once again expand the amount of ESTA information being collected from VWP travelers?
DHS remains concerned about the risks posed by the situation in Syria and Iraq, where instability has attracted thousands of foreign fighters, including many from VWP countries. Such individuals could travel to the United States for operational purposes on their own or at the behest of violent extremist groups.

The U.S. Congress shares this concern, and on December 18, 2015, the President signed into law the Consolidated Appropriations Act 2016, which includes the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (the Act). The Act, among other things, establishes new eligibility requirements for travel under the VWP. These new eligibility requirements do not bar travel to the United States. Instead, a traveler who does not meet the requirements must obtain a visa for travel to the United States, which generally includes an in-person interview at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate.

DHS has updated the ESTA application with additional questions to address the new eligibility requirements under the Act.

Under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (the Act), and DHS’s implementation of it, nationals of VWP countries who have traveled to, or been present in, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011, are no longer eligible for travel or admission to the United States under the VWP.
 
Last edited:
Famine
That's not a flight ban or a travel ban...
Click to expand...
Under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (the Act), and DHS’s implementation of it, nationals of VWP countries who have traveled to, or been present in, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011, are no longer eligible for travel or admission to the United States under the VWP.
OK so what would this mean then!

What are the new eligibility requirements for VWP travel?
Under the Act, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the VWP:

  • Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, or countries listed under specified designation lists (currently including Iran and Sudan) at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
  • Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
These restrictions do not apply to VWP travelers whose presence in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen was to perform military service in the armed forces of a program country, or in order to carry out official duties as a full-time employee of the government of a program country. We recommend those who have traveled to the seven countries listed above for military/official purposes bring with them appropriate documentation when traveling through a U.S. port of entry.

The vast majority of VWP-eligible travelers will not be affected by the new Act. New countries may be added to this list at the discretion of the Secretary of Homeland Security.

Which is exactly what the Trump administration did adding new countries and in effect used the Act signed by President Obama.
The U.S. Congress shares this concern, and on December 18, 2015, the President signed into law the Consolidated Appropriations Act 2016, which includes the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (the Act).
 
Last edited:
killerjimbag
Under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (the Act), and DHS’s implementation of it, nationals of VWP countries who have traveled to, or been present in, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011, are no longer eligible for travel or admission to the United States under the VWP.
OK so what would this mean then!

What are the new eligibility requirements for VWP travel?
Under the Act, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the VWP:

  • Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, or countries listed under specified designation lists (currently including Iran and Sudan) at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
  • Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions).
These restrictions do not apply to VWP travelers whose presence in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen was to perform military service in the armed forces of a program country, or in order to carry out official duties as a full-time employee of the government of a program country. We recommend those who have traveled to the seven countries listed above for military/official purposes bring with them appropriate documentation when traveling through a U.S. port of entry.

The vast majority of VWP-eligible travelers will not be affected by the new Act. New countries may be added to this list at the discretion of the Secretary of Homeland Security.

Which is exactly what the Trump administration did!
Click to expand...


Are you actually aware of what the VWP is? You found the .gov page going over it so I'm kind of curious where you're getting confused.

The Visa Waiver Program (VWP) enables most citizens or nationals of participating countries* to travel to the United States for tourism or business for stays of 90 days or less without first obtaining a visa, when they meet all requirements explained below. Travelers must have a valid Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) approval prior to travel. If you prefer to have a visa in your passport, you may still apply for a visitor (B) visa.
Click to expand...

The 2015 amendment only states that people in a few countries would need to obtain a visa prior to traveling to the U.S. Which is not what Trump was planning on doing as his original ban included those with valid visa's.

These individuals will still be able to apply for a visa using the regular appointment process at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate. For those who require a U.S. visa for urgent business, medical, or humanitarian travel to the United States, U.S. Embassies and Consulates stand ready to handle applications on an expedited basis.
Click to expand...

Source
 
Northstar
Are you actually aware of what the VWP is? You found the .gov page going over it so I'm kind of curious where you're getting confused.



The 2015 amendment only states that people in a few countries would need to obtain a visa prior to traveling to the U.S. Which is not what Trump was planning on doing as his original ban included those with valid visa's.



Source
Click to expand...

Here I just pulled this off of your source,which says exactly what I just stated.
Citizen or National of VWP Designated Country*
Citizens or nationals of the following countries* are currently eligible to travel to the United States under the VWP, unless citizens of one of these countries are also a national of Iraq, Iran, Syria, or Sudan.

Andorra Hungary Norway
Australia Iceland Portugal
Austria Ireland San Marino
Belgium Italy Singapore
Brunei Japan Slovakia
Chile Latvia Slovenia
Czech Republic Liechtenstein South Korea
Denmark Lithuania Spain
Estonia Luxembourg Sweden
Finland Malta Switzerland
France Monaco Taiwan*
Germany Netherlands United Kingdom**
Greece New Zealand

Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015

Under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP):

  • Nationals of VWP countries who have traveled to or been present in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited exceptions for travel for diplomatic or military purposes in the service of a VWP country).
  • Nationals of VWP countries who are also nationals of Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria.

Here read the order for yourself.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...ent-Washington-Minnesota-Travel-Ban-Case.html
 
Last edited:
killerjimbag
Here I just pulled this off of your source,which says exactly what I just stated.
Citizen or National of VWP Designated Country*
Citizens or nationals of the following countries* are currently eligible to travel to the United States under the VWP, unless citizens of one of these countries are also a national of Iraq, Iran, Syria, or Sudan.

Andorra Hungary Norway
Australia Iceland Portugal
Austria Ireland San Marino
Belgium Italy Singapore
Brunei Japan Slovakia
Chile Latvia Slovenia
Czech Republic Liechtenstein South Korea
Denmark Lithuania Spain
Estonia Luxembourg Sweden
Finland Malta Switzerland
France Monaco Taiwan*
Germany Netherlands United Kingdom**
Greece New Zealand

Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015

Under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program (VWP):

  • Nationals of VWP countries who have traveled to or been present in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited exceptions for travel for diplomatic or military purposes in the service of a VWP country).
  • Nationals of VWP countries who are also nationals of Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria.
Click to expand...

Really, did you read that source?

All that means is that they have to go through the usual visa program, they can still come to the U.S.!
 
killerjimbag
OK so what would this mean then!
Click to expand...
A visa is permission to travel.
A waiver is an exemption.
A program is a system or scheme.

The Visa Waiver Program is a scheme to exempt people from needing permission to travel.

The act merely changed who was eligible under the Visa Waiver Program. It didn't ban anyone from travelling or flying, and it didn't change who could get a visa...
 
Northstar
Really, did you read that source?

All that means is that they have to go through the usual visa program, they can still come to the U.S.!
Click to expand...

Did I read the source,it's a copy filed from March 6th of litigation in the United States District Court Western District of Washington from the US Department of Justice, Yes actually I'm still going through it.
 
killerjimbag
Here let me rectify that for you.
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/internat...ement-and-terrorist-travel-prevention-act-faq.

What is the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015? Why is it necessary to once again expand the amount of ESTA information being collected from VWP travelers?
DHS remains concerned about the risks posed by the situation in Syria and Iraq, where instability has attracted thousands of foreign fighters, including many from VWP countries. Such individuals could travel to the United States for operational purposes on their own or at the behest of violent extremist groups.

The U.S. Congress shares this concern, and on December 18, 2015, the President signed into law the Consolidated Appropriations Act 2016, which includes the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (the Act). The Act, among other things, establishes new eligibility requirements for travel under the VWP. These new eligibility requirements do not bar travel to the United States. Instead, a traveler who does not meet the requirements must obtain a visa for travel to the United States, which generally includes an in-person interview at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate.

DHS has updated the ESTA application with additional questions to address the new eligibility requirements under the Act.

Under the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (the Act), and DHS’s implementation of it, nationals of VWP countries who have traveled to, or been present in, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011, are no longer eligible for travel or admission to the United States under the VWP.
Click to expand...
A lot of shouting to still be wrong.

First cut the attitude.

Second actually read what you are posting and understand it before assuming you know what it means.

A country being removed from the visa waiver programme doesn't mean people from that country are banned from entering the US.

It means they have to apply for a visa.

It's not a blanket ban, never was and never will be and every source you have claimed supports you actually doesn't.

I will be blunt on this, you are wrong.

killerjimbag

Which is exactly what the Trump administration did adding new countries and in effect used the Act signed by President Obama.
The U.S. Congress shares this concern, and on December 18, 2015, the President signed into law the Consolidated Appropriations Act 2016, which includes the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 (the Act).
Click to expand...
Nope.

Trump's EO was a total ban on all travel from the seven countries for a limited period of time.

Not the same at all.

Obama's made it harder to get in but was not a blanket ban, Trump's was a blanket ban for s fixed period of time.
 
killerjimbag
So in general,yes,it's time for all parties involved that lost, to put on their big boy/girl (insert gender here) pants or dress or whatever turns your crank,on,crawl out of their parents basement, stop smashing,burning,looting,infringing on free speech and maybe get a job and get on with their lives. Perhaps help pay back that loan to their parents, for the education they have, that can't find them a job,that Trump is trying to create.
Click to expand...

While I agree that people shouldn't be destroying property or infringing on the rights of others, they don't have to lay down and simply let Trump do whatever they don't agree with. In the US, peaceful assembly is legal and protected by the Constitution, so as long as those protesting Trump aren't infringing on the rights of others, they can do as they wish.

killerjimbag
Perhaps it's the "Illegals" that he's deporting that bothers people. You know the ones that are here "illegally",dealing drugs,killing people, and are breaking the "law" ahead of the people trying to enter legally.
Don't worry they are probably crossing into Canada as I speak,but my Government allows it,http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/asylum-seekers-border-canada-us-1.4006228.
I don't agree with it,perhaps I should go get some friends and go smash a Starbucks and loot some stuff,yeah that sound like the democratic way to solve things!Don't worry,I'm somewhat rational and won't do it.
Is this what people are all upset about? Really? Watch what a couple of "other elected Presidents" said,wow incredible,what a bunch of racist,immigrant haters those 2 were! People should have went out and burned and looted after those speeches.


Oh perhaps it's his Flight ban,that was signed by Obama in 2015.
http://www.snopes.com/trump-immigration-order-obama/

Or is it the countries on the list, that the last administration bombed the hell out of, that maybe upset some of the locals that got bombed and Trump perhaps doesn't want some of those pissed off people over here.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/politics/countries-obama-bombed/
Click to expand...


People are upset with Trump for a multitude of reasons, some justified, some not. He's already done a bunch of things that are incredibly stupid and bad for the country, I don't blame people for being upset.

killerjimbag
I mean if they bombed Canada,you can bet for sure,that payback is going to be a bitch.
http://www.eighteentwelve.ca/?q=eng/Topic/2
Click to expand...

I'm sure you're aware of this, but the Canada of the War of 1812, isn't the same Canada today, mainly because it's no longer under British rule. Also, that's the conflict you cite to show that Canada is willing to defend itself?
 
Joey D
While I agree that people shouldn't be destroying property or infringing on the rights of others, they don't have to lay down and simply let Trump do whatever they don't agree with. In the US, peaceful assembly is legal and protected by the Constitution, so as long as those protesting Trump aren't infringing on the rights of others, they can do as they wish.

I totally agree that destroying property and infringing on others rights is wrong,period.Laying down,no,they have a right to peaceful protest,they have all the right in the world,that has not happened all the time.



People are upset with Trump for a multitude of reasons, some justified, some not. He's already done a bunch of things that are incredibly stupid and bad for the country, I don't blame people for being upset.

People were upset with Obama justified or not,for bailing out Banks and Big Business,watching CEO's walk away with huge bonuses and no one being held accountable or jailed for the collapse.I don't blame people for being upset about that either. No one destroyed buildings,businesses, smashed banks etc when that happened.




I'm sure you're aware of this, but the Canada of the War of 1812, isn't the same Canada today, mainly because it's no longer under British rule. Also, that's the conflict you cite to show that Canada is willing to defend itself?
Click to expand...

It is away bigger country now! It was a choice of probably better thought of words,but i'm sure you get my point. Yes i'm sure there would be many trained military people that would defend this country to death,me included.I'm also pretty sure that our neighbors to the south have no intentions of that.
 
killerjimbag
It is away bigger country now! It was a choice of probably better thought of words,but i'm sure you get my point. Yes i'm sure there would be many trained military people that would defend this country to death,me included.I'm also pretty sure that our neighbors to the south have no intentions of that.
Click to expand...

Let me google that for you.

According to this link our country has 100, 250 military personnel total + you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Armed_Forces

Now according to this link, the US of A has over 2.5 million military personnel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces

We may have a larger land mass but that's it, that is not a fight I'm willing to put up. Maybe a 1 to 1 ratio but not a 25 to 1, that is planned suicide.
 
killerjimbag
I'm also pretty sure that our neighbors to the south have no intentions of that.
Click to expand...

You do realize America has a larger military than Canada, right? You also realize that we spend more on our military then the next six countries combined, right? I've heard the US referred to as a lot of things, but unwilling to fight is not one of them.
 
killerjimbag
Yes i'm sure there would be many trained military people that would defend this country to death
Click to expand...

I hope you mean to the death... unless your plan is just to detonate the whole thing at the first sign of trouble*?

* Nothing wrong with that - it's the same plan as Denmark, after all.
 
Robin.
I wonder if the US going to go all War Plan Red on Canada?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red
Click to expand...

southpark-blame-canada.jpg
 
prisonermonkeys
There has been an increase in the reported number of hate crimes against minority groups - including bomb threats against houses of worship and attacks on cemetery - since Trump's ascendency:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...tombstones-united-states-donald-trump/8335416

Britain went through a similar phenomenon after the Brexit vote.
Click to expand...
That's the first I've seen that was reported true. From all the "hate crime" against minority, I read about after Brexit and thid Election it was just all statistics without any real information about what has been going down and why. Hell straight after the election what did happen was a lot of property damage that wasn't from Trump Supporters and it happened again during inauguration.

What has happened ever since (and even before) Trump won though. Is people who hate Trump going out of control and attacking people (or property) who they think voted for Trump and calling it justice:




Lets also not forget what happened at UC Berkeley, whether you like Milo or think he's an awful human being, what happened there was not right and uncalled-for.

With all these people even coming from different races, beliefs and even sexuality and gender identity. I think this is just a battle of where you are in the Political Spectrum not whether or not you're a White Straight Cis Male or a Minority and people just throw complete racist, sexist, homophobic slurs at each other just to hurt their opposition.

eran0004
Trump was very clear: his tweet was not about wire tapping, it was about "wire tapping".

Wow. Such clear communication. Such difference the quotation marks make. The tweet gets a whole "new" meaning.
Click to expand...
Ahhhh of course, why else would Trump say wire tapping :lol: :rolleyes:
 
prisonermonkeys
There has been an increase in the reported number of hate crimes against minority groups - including bomb threats against houses of worship and attacks on cemetery - since Trump's ascendency:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...tombstones-united-states-donald-trump/8335416

Britain went through a similar phenomenon after the Brexit vote.
Click to expand...
Threats and attacks/rapes. Trump/immigrants. America/Sweden.

You haven't given an opinion on the matter, but I trust you'll be consistent with your application of correlation and causation principles, yeah?
 

Similar threads

Ross
  • Poll
Britain - The Official Thread
443 444 445
Replies
13K
Views
609K
TumeK5
TumeK5
Dylan
2025 NASCAR Discussion Thread
Replies
15
Views
2K
Eggstor
Eggstor
Harley45
What did you do in GT7 today?
444 445 446
Replies
13K
Views
719K
jesse100190
J
The_Greaser
Forza Motorsport (2023): The Bugfest Thread
2 3 4
Replies
96
Views
18K
UKMikey
UKMikey
Dotini
Trump's Legacy: the US Space Force and conservative judges
Replies
1
Views
721
Dotini
Dotini

Latest Posts

Back