America - The Official Thread

[Danoff]

So other than hearsay and plain assumptions, there's no real facts to backup people's claims that Moore is a liar?

Investigate any one of the claims he makes and you'll find that's a wacko conspiracy theorist. Go ahead, do some digging. It won't hurt you.

 

[Diego440]

That's why I asked if anyone had a site that said such a thing. A simple Google search brings up nothing but pro-Moore and anti-Moore websites.

 

[Danoff]

That's why I asked if anyone had a site that said such a thing. A simple Google search brings up nothing but pro-Moore and anti-Moore websites.

Figure it out yourself. Take one of moore's claims and go investigate.

 

[Diego440]

Figure it out yourself. Take one of moore's claims and go investigate.

Thanks for the help, mate.

O where would I be without your initiative ....

 

[Danoff]

Thanks for the help, mate.

O where would I be without your initiative ....

Hey, I'm not the one with the questions here:

So other than hearsay and plain assumptions, there's no real facts to backup people's claims that Moore is a liar?

 

[Diego440]

I'm asking if there are facts that you can provide... if not, then just say you don't and leave it be. Let's see if someone else can provide them.

Damn you always have to be so serious about everything. You must suck at telling jokes.

 

[FoolKiller]

I'm asking if there are facts that you can provide... if not, then just say you don't and leave it be. Let's see if someone else can provide them.

Damn you always have to be so serious about everything. You must suck at telling jokes.

I know a few of the Congressmen he interviewed came out and said he editted their interviews to make them say stuff they didn't actually say or mean.

I can't remember them now, it has been about 5 years.

 

[Danoff]

I'm asking if there are facts that you can provide... if not, then just say you don't and leave it be. Let's see if someone else can provide them.

I tell you what. I'll help you out, just post one of Moore's claims and I'll do your research for you.

 

[Diego440]

See, that's the spirit! I'm watching Farenheit 9/11... tell you in a moment.

Alright, here's one:

Apparently in the days after 9/11, when all planes were grounded, Bush had the Bin Laden family leave the country. He then compares it to what would you think if in the days after the Oklahoma bombing, Clinton would've halped the McVeigh family leave the country.

And one more, Moore claims Bush tried to stop Congress from probing Sept. 11. And when not being able to do that, he allegedly opposed a 9/11 panel.

Again, I'm not claiming this is true or not. I'm just asking if there is a way to prove or disprove what Moore claims. Thanks a lot.

 

[Danoff]

Apparently in the days after 9/11, when all planes were grounded, Bush had the Bin Laden family leave the country. He then compares it to what would you think if in the days after the Oklahoma bombing, Clinton would've halped the McVeigh family leave the country.

The analogy is obviously off-base because McVeigh's family would have been fleeing the country rather than returning to their home country. Here's an article I dug up.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34405

Keep in mind that we did not know Bin Laden was responsible, but the Bin Laden family had disowned Osama. Also, the family apparently did not leave the country until the ban was lifted.

Once the flight ban was lifted, two jumbo jets transported the Saudis out of the country.

Also, keep in mind that the Bin Laden family has no ties to 9/11 (other than Osama of course), and Bush isn't linked to the approval to release them.

And one more, Moore claims Bush tried to stop Congress from probing Sept. 11. And when not being able to do that, he allegedly opposed a 9/11 panel.

Yea, I think that's true. Does that bother you? Here's an article.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/15/attack/main509096.shtml

 

[Diego440]

Yea, I think that's true. Does that bother you?

Thanks Dan.

No, it doesn't really bother me. I just wanted to see if the claims were true or not. Thanks again.

 

[Danoff]

Thanks Dan.

No, it doesn't really bother me. I just wanted to see if the claims were true or not. Thanks again.

If it helps at all, one thing I heard was that in the movie Moore interviews congressmen and asks them if they've sent their sons to Iraq. Or something to that effect.

Of course that ignores that parents can never sign their children up to be in the armed forces. Soldiers are all over 18 and make that decision for themselves.

The question should have been phrased "would you still support the war effort if your son were in the army?" but that doesn't have the same sort of punch does it?

Not to mention that he edited out all of the most articulate responses.

 

[ledhed]

Moores cred has been demolished ..except among his ardent supporters..you are always going to have those from both extremes who will tolerate a lie or two or three and some fact twisting for the greater good...as long as it is their " good " .

The ave. American though that votes and works and has an independent mind was lost by Moore ..so he's a bit irrelevant ..but ..he made a mint !

he's laughing his fat butt off all the way to the bank .

 

[ace96]

See, that's the spirit! I'm watching Farenheit 9/11... tell you in a moment.

Alright, here's one:

Apparently in the days after 9/11, when all planes were grounded, Bush had the Bin Laden family leave the country. He then compares it to what would you think if in the days after the Oklahoma bombing, Clinton would've halped the McVeigh family leave the country.

And one more, Moore claims Bush tried to stop Congress from probing Sept. 11. And when not being able to do that, he allegedly opposed a 9/11 panel.

Again, I'm not claiming this is true or not. I'm just asking if there is a way to prove or disprove what Moore claims. Thanks a lot.

that was staged if you see the first aircraft that crashed in the wtc had no windows
any way what does the world have against muslims? be honest

 

[Carl.]

that was staged if you see the first aircraft that crashed in the wtc had no windows

*sigh* When you look at footage from Google Video, right?

any way what does the world have against muslims or any kind of religious extremists mudering civilians?

There, corrected the question for you. Now you can easily answer it by yourself.

 

[ace96]

you are a **** wit it america that is doing it get the **** out of the middle east it would be better if the usa wernt there

 

[Carl.]

Wow... you can say bye bye to GTP.

Congratulations on the brainwashing, whoever converted you did a really good job. It's sad really. You know what? I myself must have posted over 100 posts in that forums against the war in Iraq, I don't like Bush one bit.

But being an apologist for relious extremists is something else. Only care about "Fidels" being killed is something else.

Why don't you ask your brainwashing tutor if it the Iran-Iraq war was ok, since it was fidels against fidels...

 

[FoolKiller]

I'm not quite sure what happened but he appears to have just snapped at some point last night because in multiple threads he started talking like that.

It's almost as if he had a second personality take over, or his account got jacked.

 

[Diego440]

Well, I'm not justifying his actions, but he has been reprimanded a few times because of not reading stickies, among other reasons...

ace96, settle down. A lot of Americans post here, so it's only expected that the website's bias is a bit towards the US. I recommend you read throughout this thread, as your topic has been covered about a zillion times before.

This is the "opinions" thread, not the "bash eveyone who's against me" thread. I learned that the hard way

EDIT: Oh, he's been banned already. My bad.

 

[ledhed]

I'm not quite sure what happened but he appears to have just snapped at some point last night because in multiple threads he started talking like that.

It's almost as if he had a second personality take over, or his account got jacked.

A night of heavy meth and beer abuse might also account for it .

 

[FoolKiller]

A night of heavy meth and beer abuse might also account for it .

A drunken stupor never prevented me from creating coherent Lost write-ups in the Lost thread. I would say 5-10% of my posts are done with at least four beers (usually more) running through my system. (Lame attempt to get back on topic) But not American beer, I prefer my beer to actually have some taste to it.

Of course I also don't do meth. That might be teh key.

 

[Swift]

And people like Ace96 wonder why Americans tend to have a hard time with muslims. Maybe because when 9/11 is mentioned, the react like that. Is he not an American citizen? Was it not his countrymen that were murdered? Regardless of religion?

 

[Niels]

I think it's the same thing as us wondering why terrorists did 9/11. Trust me, 9/11 was freakin bad, and surely historical for the US and the entire western world, but when I saw every person in the middle east dancing on the streets and partying, I realised this was a very very big problem, that had just been ignored before.

 

[ledhed]

I think it's the same thing as us wondering why terrorists did 9/11. Trust me, 9/11 was freakin bad, and surely a scare for the US and the entire western world, but when I saw every person in the middle east dancing on the streets and partying, I realised this was a very very big problem, that had just been ignored before.

you said a mouthfull.....

And as a further blow my mind moment ..I thought much the thing ..AND I had already been under the beliefe that it was being ignored for a long time ..

Its just on how HUGE a scale to provoke such a polorizing response..whew..

its still a scary thought .

 

[Swift]

I think it's the same thing as us wondering why terrorists did 9/11. Trust me, 9/11 was freakin bad, and surely historical for the US and the entire western world, but when I saw every person in the middle east dancing on the streets and partying, I realised this was a very very big problem, that had just been ignored before.

I would just change one part of that...

... but when I saw a large amount of people in the middle east dancing...

I'm quite sure not every person was loving it and I'm also sure that's not what you meant. I just wanted to be clear for any future ace96's out there.

 

[ledhed]

I would just change one part of that...

... but when I saw a large amount of people in the middle east dancing...

I'm quite sure not every person was loving it and I'm also sure that's not what you meant. I just wanted to be clear for any future ace96's out there.

Its important to note that although visions of Palestinians dancing in the street were put out there along with a few other area's... so was the somber response from others in the Mid East... and the Muslim world...THE MAJORITY OF ISLAMIC RESPONSE... was in support and sorrow for those killed and even support for the US ....

If we remember only the dancing nitwits...what does that say about us ?

 

[Niels]

I would just change one part of that...

... but when I saw a large amount of people in the middle east dancing...

I'm quite sure not every person was loving it and I'm also sure that's not what you meant. I just wanted to be clear for any future ace96's out there.

Nah, I don't think of it like Ace does.

Let's say it this way:
I was horrified when I saw 9/11 happen, live television for ..... sake, I couldn't believe it was happening "at this very moment". I saw the towers collapse, and instead of saying "OH NO" like you have with less serious situations, I felt myself going cold and just staring

Then later that day, I saw kids of just 13 years old dancing on the streets, it was a shock. Seconds later though, I realised this couldn't have been done without a serious reason, this couldn't have been plain dumb terrorism.
It seemed like the whole middle-east, maybe even the whole 3rd world had hated us and we had just ignored it.
I felt guilty for something I didn't know the size of.

Just going upstairs going to your room and realising for a second that you do have a bed to sleep on, I even had a TV and a PS2 and a closet full of clothes. I won't go make a drama about this, I can tell you I realised this for just a few seconds, and forced it out of my mind after that, but I did realise it.

It almost seems like Ace thinks 9/11 was justice and that the Muslims haven't done anything wrong.
But I can tell you, there are things out there we can't justify either. Instead, we just ignore them, the press and government ignores them.

 

[Swift]

It almost seems like Ace thinks 9/11 was justice and that the Muslims haven't done anything wrong.
But I can tell you, there are things out there we can't justify either. Instead, we just ignore them, the press and government ignores them.

Yep, no people/religion/government has a perfect record and we shouldn't act like it.

 

[Danny]

Been a while since I last spouted about America.

I don't like your government. I disagree with they way they react with other countries. I'm of the opinion that they act rashly, induce overkill, and maybe just maybe greed plays a part.
I do, however like you. The American people. From the people I have met, I must say that the majority are well mannered, well spoken and genuinely polite. I think it would be nice for an "Average Joe" to get into power somewhere along the line.
Polititians remain thorougly unconvincing to me.

 

[Swift]

I think it would be nice for an "Average Joe" to get into power somewhere along the line.
Polititians remain thorougly unconvincing to me.

The problem with our system is that one person pretty much can't make a difference unless he convinces others and they require "favors". This is why things tend to stay the same, especially on the federal level.

But thanks for the compliment