America - The Official Thread

[McLaren]

I get what you are saying, but the timing seems strangely awkward...

For example, you are providing example of why Sander is mad on either cases, but those are for different reasons, and his reasons seem in each case fair enough...

You are right that Sanders and everyone got what we wanted, but you seem to be saying they we all should be ok for getting What we wanted no matter the form or timing it took... Which i believe is not correct because now the situation is slightly different and there seems to b some "conflict of interest" in the surprised decision by the POTUS.

Things are adding too much to make this oust not "innocent" enough

The situation only appears different because people propose this argument that basically comes down to Comey literally being the only person investigating Trump, and no one else.

Again, there is also a letter from Trump claiming that Comey told him on 3 different occasions, he was not being investigated.

Mark my words, Trump will be booted out of this office before the end of this year...

Let the bets begin...

The last time I saw this kind of statement being thrown around, Clinton was a shoe-in to win in a landslide victory.

 

[CTznOfTime]

there is also a letter from Trump claiming that Comey told him on 3 different occasions, he was not being investigated.

.

And you trust anything Trump will make up?

Its like OJ Simpson saying that his gardener saw him skinny dip in the pool at the time of the murder...

At this point any letter that are coming out of his mouth has to be spelled checked.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

There's no legal nuance here. I get that you have a dog in this fight, but honestly, this isn't splitting hairs. They basically said "she's clearly guilty, but we're not pressing charges".

Edit:

This is what I like about not picking sides, I don't have to defend scumbags.

Man, I'm glad you called it like that, I wish I had said it so blunt and just in my prior posts. Though as nice as it is, it wont change the fact that people will continually defend said scumbags on each side, but hey I guess it's okay to halfway morality

 

[McLaren]

And you trust anything Trump will make up?

Its like OJ Simpson saying that his gardener saw him skinny dip in the pool at the time of the murder...

At this point any letter that are coming out of his mouth has to be spelled checked.

You got proof he was being investigated by Comey? Or are you another poster that just throws his thoughts on here based on his feelings for the man? I wouldn't be surprised if you're one of these people who went:

"Trump won't win the Presidency".
"Trump won't last 100 days".
"Trump won't last the year".
"Trump won't last the next 3 years".

The kind of repeated statements people get when you let comedian rejects have a news show & the masses take it in stride. At least TYT & Info Wars spew their garbage with a serious face.

 

[CTznOfTime]

You got proof he was being investigated by Comey? Or are you another poster that just throws his thoughts on here based on his feelings for the man? I wouldn't be surprised if you're one of these people who went:

"Trump won't win the Presidency".
"Trump won't last 100 days".
"Trump won't last the year".
"Trump won't last the next 3 years".

The kind of repeated statements people get when you let comedian rejects have a news show & the masses take it in stride. At least TYT & Info Wars spew their garbage with a serious face.

I dont have the proof that his is being investigated.

On one side of the goverment you hear people saying yes.

On the other side, you hear him say he is not.

What is the most likely plausible real scenario?


I did say the first statement.
But once he is the POTUS, i gave him the benefit of the doubt and even wished him well in hope that he will turn around this country for the benefit of us all.
I am a positive and realistic person i think, i dont like to dwell in the negative.

During his 100 days i have asked myself a couple of times how and if he could even make it through.

But at this point, i dont think he can make it before Christmas '17.

3 years is way too far out, so much has happened that doesnt give me any confidence... And its not because of Comey.

Let me try harder at being positive:

What if an alliance between the US and Russia is possible? Maybe it is not as bad as people make it to be?
Why cant we bury the past and let the two countries open borders and let us have a common citizenship.

In fact, i am a long time fervant believer that this Earth can benefit from open.borders ... No borders... No countries... Just land people are free to move about...

I am one of these dreamers...

Which one of you is on board?

 

[McLaren]

I dont have the proof that his is being investigated.

On one side of the goverment you hear people saying yes.

On the other side, you hear him say he is not.

What is the most likely real scenario?

The side that has the most evidence to back up what they're saying; hence why I asked if you had proof if you wanted to jump into that pool of discussion.

I couldn't care less at the end of the day of whether he should've fired Comey or not. I'm still going to laugh at the upset Democrats who viewed the man as the Devil for costing Hillary the election, but became a Saint again because he was supposedly investigating the opposition. They're going through the same flip flop of emotions the Republicans did when they were upset Comey wasn't going to charge Hillary, then liked him once he brought the scandal back up, and then ultimately hated him again for still not prosecuting her.

I did say the first statement.
But once he is the POTUS, i gave him the benefit of the doubt and even wished him well in hope that he will turn around this country for the benefit of us all.
I am a positive and realistic person i think, i dont like to dwell in the negative.

During his 100 days i have asked myself a couple of times how and if he could even make it through.

But at this point, i dont think he can make it before Christmas '17.

3 years is way too far out, so much has happened that doesnt give me any confidence... And its not because of Comey.

Let me try harder at being positive:

And what are you going to say if he makes it through the year? Are you going to push to another date?

Every time Trump manages to accomplish a "milestone", the Left goes, "OMG how did this guy ever make it this far. Well, he won't make it to such and such date" & throws out a new Countdown to Impeachment. It is the EXACT mentality that started before the Primaries even began, and people continue to order a serving of crow over and over and over.

What if an alliance between the US and Russia is possible? Maybe it is not as bad as people make it

Depends on how you're asking this; under the assumption Russia & the USA formed an alliance on the foundation of a rigged election (remember, Democrats told us you can't do that)? Or that Trump & Putin can reach a legitimate friendship?

Because for a man that supposedly won Presidency by being Putin's puppet, that's quite a tactic to bomb Syria against Russia's threats of retaliation.

 

[Biggles]

This is what I like about not picking sides, I don't have to defend scumbags.

You have picked a side. In a pinch, I'd choose Clinton or Trump over the scumbag Ayn Rand ... but thankfully Rand never had access to actual political power.

 

[CTznOfTime]

The side that has the most evidence to back up what they're saying; hence why I asked if you had proof if you wanted to jump into that pool of discussion.

I couldn't care less at the end of the day of whether he should've fired Comey or not. I'm still going to laugh at the upset Democrats who viewed the man as the Devil for costing Hillary the election, but became a Saint again because he was supposedly investigating the opposition. They're going through the same flip flop of emotions the Republicans did when they were upset Comey wasn't going to charge Hillary, then liked him once he brought the scandal back up, and then ultimately hated him again for still not prosecuting her.

And what are you going to say if he makes it through the year? Are you going to push to another date?

Every time Trump manages to accomplish a "milestone", the Left goes, "OMG how did this guy ever make it this far. Well, he won't make it to such and such date" & throws out a new Countdown to Impeachment. It is the EXACT mentality that started before the Primaries even began, and people continue to order a serving of crow over and over and over.

Depends on how you're asking this; under the assumption Russia & the USA formed an alliance on the foundation of a rigged election (remember, Democrats told us you can't do that)? Or that Trump & Putin can reach a legitimate friendship?

Because for a man that supposedly won Presidency by being Putin's puppet, that's quite a tactic to bomb Syria against Russia's threats of retaliation.

Whether Comey remains or not, thats not what everyone should worry about but rather what ulterior motives the Trumps admin has... At this point neither of us know, but from my point of view all of Trumps action dont give me any confidence of his good intentions...

For these reasons we will cotinue to monitor him until hopefully out confidence is back and we wont care about his doing and duty.

As for Syria, did you ever think that Russia allowed Trump to give a firework show to appease and entertained the people...

I totally think it was coordinated between the two countries.. Dont you?

 

[Tornado]

"Danoff said something I disagree with, but can't/don't want to rebut. Quick, uh...


Ayn Rand was just some dumb bitch!


There. Crisis avoided."

 

[Johnnypenso]

I am not much a gambler.

I dont gamble, but if i do, that'$ what i would bet on.


On a more serious note, my predictions are based on The current events and how i envision things to flow down logically... Unless more crazy things are going to happen...

You know he'd have to be impeached by his own party right? That's until 2018 - and beyond barring a total collapse by the Pubs in the House and Senate mid-terms.

 

[CTznOfTime]

You know he'd have to be impeached by his own party right? That's until 2018 - and beyond barring a total collapse by the Pubs in the House and Senate mid-terms.

No I did not know. Yeah it won't be easy.
I just hope that things won't be easy for Trump to undo the little of what's left of our democracy as it is not easy for us to impeach him...

Can't wait to see what's next...

 

[eran0004]

Also... insurance isn't for something you can "just get a new" one of. That's the no-insurance scenario. Insurance is for something that will ruin you if it happens, at the very least in the short run.

Of course. That's why there is something called health insurance.

It's wrong to compare health insurance with car insurance or life insurance, because unlike those two health insurance is about welfare and having a decent life with as little pain and suffering as possible. We have a moral obligation to share each other's burdens there, and it's not okay to shut people out of the system because they are already ill, especially not since they are the ones who need healthcare the most.

 

[McLaren]

Whether Comey remains or not, thats not what everyone should worry about but rather what ulterior motives the Trumps admin has... At this point neither of us know, but from my point of view all of Trumps action dont give me any confidence of his good intentions...

For these reasons we will cotinue to monitor him until hopefully out confidence is back and we wont care about his doing and duty.

As for Syria, did you ever think that Russia allowed Trump to give a firework show to appease and entertained the people...

I totally think it was coordinated between the two countries.. Dont you?

You're making a lot of assumptions, but continuing to not put forth any evidence.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

No I did not know. Yeah it won't be easy.
I just hope that things won't be easy for Trump to undo the little of what's left of our democracy as it is not easy for us to impeach him...

Can't wait to see what's next...

This makes absolutely no sense. What are you talking about? I mean I'd truly like to know, not trying to be rude.

On another note not related to CTzn

What does a user attacking another one based on favorite author (who happens to have made political based novels), have to do with the obvious investment many of you have here in a political side or persona? Other than an obvious cop out and no semblance of logic yet again.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Republicans are criticising Democrats for criticising the firing of Comey, arguing that if Clinton had won the election, she would have fired Comey immediately - which is ironic, considering that if Trump had fired Comey immediately, this whole debacle would have been avoided:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-11/james-comey-sacking-what-happens-now-trump/8516496

Edit - meanwhile, a journalist has been arrested for "wilful disruption" after "aggressively questioning" the health secretary:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-...ed-after-questioning-health-secretary/8516922

 

[Danoff]

Of course. That's why there is something called health insurance.

It's wrong to compare health insurance with car insurance or life insurance, because unlike those two health insurance is about welfare and having a decent life with as little pain and suffering as possible.

No, you're describing health care. Health insurance is about handling unexpected large costs that have a low percentage chance of arising (kinda like car insurance, life insurance, and every other type of insurance).

We have a moral obligation to share each other's burdens there, and it's not okay to shut people out of the system because they are already ill, especially not since they are the ones who need healthcare the most.

Feel free to buy me food too, and pay my rent, and buy me clothes, and buy me a car - I like nice cars. Don't buy me a crappy car ok, I don't want an Acura cake I want a Ferrari cake.

 

[huskeR32]

The situation only appears different because people propose this argument that basically comes down to Comey literally being the only person investigating Trump, and no one else.

No, that's not the argument at all.

It comes down to the fact that if you fire the person leading an investigation against you, it sends a message to anyone else who might investigate you that they had better think twice if they value their job.

Again, there is also a letter from Trump claiming that Comey told him on 3 different occasions, he was not being investigated.

And he never lies, so it must be true.

--

You got proof he was being investigated by Comey?

Comey said so himself.

(Yes, yes, I know the investigation is targeted at the campaign, not the man. But that distinction is largely irrelevant. Do you think that if that investigation turns up proof of cooperation with the Russians that Trump will come out clean on the other side? That's absurd. Trump obviously has a vested interest in this investigation, and its outcome would have very real consequences for him.)

--

I'm still going to laugh at the upset Democrats who viewed the man as the Devil for costing Hillary the election, but became a Saint again because he was supposedly investigating the opposition.

Once again:

One can still think that Comey should have lost his job, but think that Trump firing him in the midst of an investigation that could seriously damage him is blatant abuse of power.

Most people are capable of nuanced thought. You should try it sometime.

One needn't view Comey in a positive light to be concerned with Trump's actions here.

 

[Danoff]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...uld_support_hillary_clinton_firing_comey.html

When trump does it it's not ok, but if Hillary did it it would be ok. I'm kinda surprised to see such open hypocrisy.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...uld_support_hillary_clinton_firing_comey.html

When trump does it it's not ok, but if Hillary did it it would be ok. I'm kinda surprised to see such open hypocrisy.

Talk about wanting to have it both ways, someone else on here had this same mentality, and watching it on TV makes even less sense then in writing. Just wow...

 

[huskeR32]

When trump does it it's not ok, but if Hillary did it it would be ok. I'm kinda surprised to see such open hypocrisy.

At the time of the election, Hillary wasn't the target of an active FBI investigation.

Assuming that remained true, then in this hypothetical where she wins and fires Comey, she would not be firing somebody who was leading an active investigation of which she was a key party. I don't see the hypocrisy.

 

[Danoff]

At the time of the election, Hillary wasn't the target of an active FBI investigation.

Assuming that remained true, then in this hypothetical where she wins and fires Comey, she would not be firing somebody who was leading an active investigation of which she was a key party. I don't see the hypocrisy.

Congratulations, you're a believer.

 

[huskeR32]

Congratulations, you're a believer.

Believer in what? I'm speaking to the facts that currently exist.

Trump fired somebody who was actively investigating his campaign.

Barring new developments, Hillary would not have been in the same position had she won.

 

[eran0004]

No, you're describing health care. Health insurance is about handling unexpected large costs that have a low percentage chance of arising (kinda like car insurance, life insurance, and every other type of insurance).

Of course, I forgot that health care is free in the US. My mistake.

Feel free to buy me food too, and pay my rent, and buy me clothes, and buy me a car - I like nice cars. Don't buy me a crappy car ok, I don't want an Acura cake I want a Ferrari cake.

If you're starving, sure. If you can't afford a decent home, sure. If you can't afford to buy clothes, sure. But if you can't afford a car I'm afraid you'll have to settle for the bus.

 

[Tornado]

I don't see the hypocrisy.

Why would you?

Barring new developments, Hillary would not have been in the same position had she won.

No. She just would have fired someone because they had done an active investigation against her which repeatedly damaged her politically, which definitely can't be considered an abuse of power and in no way would send a message against anyone else.

 

[Danoff]

Of course, I forgot that health care is free in the US. My mistake.

That's right, it's not free... like food, clothing, housing, and other necessities.

If you're starving, sure. If you can't afford a decent home, sure. If you can't afford to buy clothes, sure. But if you can't afford a car I'm afraid you'll have to settle for the bus.

What if i don't want to afford it. What if I make the decision to not afford it?

Believer in what? I'm speaking to the facts that currently exist.

Trump fired somebody who was actively investigating his campaign.

Barring new developments, Hillary would not have been in the same position had she won.

A believer in team D. I wonder what Hillary would have said when she fired him "I think you handled my situation poorly, I really should have been prosecuted".

 

[huskeR32]

Why would you?

Because I don't have your wisdom and ability to be above it all, I guess.

No. She just would have fired someone because they had done an active investigation against her, which definitely can't be considered an abuse of power and in no way would send a message against people who were underneath Comey.

I didn't say otherwise. It would definitely be problematic.

What I did say is that it really isn't a straightforward comparison.

Trump fired someone actively investigating his campaign. Hillary would have been firing someone who had investigated her in the past, and declined to charge her with anything. Suggesting that those two scenarios are the same, and therefore constitute "open hypocrisy," strikes me as playing a little loose with the context in the interest of building a strawman.

--

A believer in team D.

Not that it really has any relevance to this situation, but I have some fairly significant objections to what "team D" is doing these days.

I wonder what Hillary would have said when she fired him "I think you handled my situation poorly, I really should have been prosecuted".

If Hypothetical President Hillary had fired Comey without any good cause to do so, I would have been the first to say it was wrong. This despite your telling me what I "believe." Which I'd ask that you stop doing, thanks.

 

[eran0004]

That's right, it's not free... like food, clothing, housing, and other necessities.

Why should it be free? I'm talking about sharing risk and sharing cost so that it's affordable (and thus accessible) for everyone.

What if i don't want to afford it. What if I make the decision to not afford it?

What if you want to afford it, but can't? In my opinion that case is more important than your case.

 

[Danoff]

Why should it be free? I'm talking about sharing risk and sharing cost so that it's affordable (and thus accessible) for everyone.

Insurance?

What if you want to afford it, but can't? In my opinion that case is more important than your case.

I do actually want a Ferrari cake.

Trump fired someone actively investigating his campaign. Hillary would have been firing someone who had investigated her in the past, and declined to charge her with anything. Suggesting that those two scenarios are the same, and therefore constitute "open hypocrisy," strikes me as playing a little loose with the context in the interest of building a strawman.

Not that it really has any relevance to this situation, but I have some fairly significant objections to what "team D" is doing these days.

If Hypothetical President Hillary had fired Comey without any good cause to do so, I would have been the first to say it was wrong. This despite your telling me what I "believe." Which I'd ask that you stop doing, thanks.

You've demonstrated an allegiance to one side by not being able to see this. It's not always worth trying to explain to someone who has demonstrated "faith", but since you seem to be honestly requesting it, I'll try.

What would you like Trump to have done?

Not fire Comey? He was clearly incompetent. So if he finds no wrongdoing by anyone with ties to Trump, Trump should have fired him for being incompetent. He can't clear Trump of wrongdoing because he cleared Hillary for what he admitted was wrongdoing. He has no credibility at this point. Clearly this guy cannot find anyone guilty. If he does find wrongdoing, that makes Trump look guilty almost regardless of who actually did the deed, so obviously Trump loses in that scenario as well.

Obviously if Trump fires Comey you seem to think it's inappropriate. Most will immediately argue that it's to cover wrongdoing and install a crony.

Why should trump be required to keep this guy in place after effectively publicly admitting that he was failing to go after someone who was guilty? Because the guy was investigating trump? How long did Trump need to wait? Could Comey just keep investigating Trump (or... people with ties to trump) as long as he wanted job security?

It's a no-win scenario.

Similarly, if Hillary takes office and fires him for having put her under investigation, that's not?!? the same as Trump firing him for investigating people around him. Or suppose Hillary fires him for having investigated her at an inopportune time. Hillary would have been in exactly the same no-win scenario, because if she kept him on, he looks like the crony.

For a real-world scenario involving the US presidency, it's as perfectly matched as it could be. Fire him, it's retribution. Don't fire him, he either finds you guilty of something eventually, or he's incompetent and a mockery of the FBI (and a crony).

 

[CTznOfTime]

You're making a lot of assumptions, but continuing to not put forth any evidence.

If i have any evidence, i wouldnt be here talking to you.

The firework show Trump had in Syria was nothing more than to distract and entertain the US population and let them forget about the horrible images.

Ohhh i am impress that our President dared to clear some grass field by the side of a military airport runway...

With the sophistication of our weapon system, we were authorized by the Syrians and Russians to do their yards.

This makes absolutely no sense. What are you talking about? I mean I'd truly like to know, not trying to be rude.

No offence taken, i wasnt clear enough i admit.

What i meant to say i reply to your explanation is:
The way that we have rules and procedures in order to impeach a President, and as difficult as it is to proceed with it, to which i agree we need to consider only based on care and respect when necessary,
I hope that our current president will deal with all matter in the most transparent clear and respectful of all the rules and procedures that applies to hum and his administration without bypassing the check amd balance that our country was founded upon...

The law is above All ....

 

[McLaren]

If i have any evidence, i wouldnt be here talking to you.

The firework show Trump had in Syria was nothing more than to distract and entertain the US population and let them forget about the horrible images.

Ohhh i am impress that our President dared to clear some grass field by the side of a military airport runway...

With the sophistication of our weapon system, we were authorized by the Syrians and Russians to do their yards.

Again, post evidence Russia let Trump bomb Syria and put on a show that they were upset.