America - The Official Thread

[TexRex]

There really is untold beauty in that part of the world @TenEightyOne. Don't even get me started on Wales...

But seriously...the whole Red Rock area and GSENM makes me envious of @Joey D.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Tangentially related, one American custom that I particularly like is the usage of Native American place and geographic feature names. Granted, this is not universal (seems to be most concentrated in the North East) but it gives a sense of place unique to the Americas. I grew up in a town called Wiscasset, in the state of Maine, which translates to "The Outlet". It originates from the Penobscot Nation, I believe.

Closer to (current home) is Mount Tamalpais, just north of San Francisco which is Coastal Miwok for "West Hill". The town of "Petaluma" and "Napa" (Napa Valley, generally) are both named for Native tribes. Maps like this give you a decent sense of how populated the territory of the US was before it was colonized by Europeans:

 

[DDastardly00]

Sedona is a great place to visit, I went to Red Rock State park and did the tour of the environmental center once, very beautiful place. They also had this Restaurant called the Coffee Pot that served 101 different types of Omelets, it was very good, place was packed and was a week day morning, like on a Wednesday. I could tell it was very popular with the locals.

 

[TexRex]

(seems to be most concentrated in the North East)

Narragansett. Mattapoisett. Madawaska. Carrabassett. Wiscassett. Massapequa.

 

[photonrider]

I'm so bored of the Trump talk, I'm bored of politics in general and how people seem so consumed by it these days. I don't think it's very healthy to be completely honest. I'm just hoping that people will focus on the finer, more worthwhile things in life, after all, the corrupt will always be corrupt, it's not something we can personally control.

In regards to this thread, since it is about America, the US is a big territory with lots of beautiful places to visit, I thought I would share some of them that I have been too. The North Cascades Park is absolutely stunning, even on day with bad weather.

This should be Diablo lake if memory serves me correctly....

To the east of this by about an hour is the Methow Valley, which is simply stunning in the Spring. Now, I should be mention that the Canadians actually have the even more stunning half of this Valley, near Kelowna, BC. Pictured here is the lower half, located in Washington State.

Near this is a town called Winthrop, which is styled after an Old west town, complete with a Saloon. It's a nice place to stop and have lunch, stroll through an old west museum and have a scoop of ice cream.

If anyone else has some places they would like to share, I would love to see some posts like this. Anything is better than talking about Trump all day.

As always . . . if I'm patient enough, someone comes along and does all the hard work for me. 👍

All the 'official' country threads reflect this often pointless (and transient) dissection of politics, while ignoring the . . . country. And what is actually somewhat permanent in it (at least in our personal and limited lifetimes) - the geography, its culture (music, food, customs), its history, places to visit - in effect a melting-pot of information reflecting the actual country through the eyes of its citizens.
This is a reason I rarely visit the 'What in the world or whatever is going on in Canada' discussion - and I would so much love to present a lot more about Canada than transient politics or weird, wacky news-bytes geared more to ridicule than any sort of human interest.
Country threads - if they are are 'official' threads and focus on generalities - shouldn't be swamped with only politics or religion (these subjects often have their own discussions focused on specifics.)

In relation to America - someone mentioned here once (crude but basic to the point) that the United States is like fifty countries banded together. Deeper is the fact that even crossing a State line can have you speaking in a different accent - you wouldn't have to fly too far. 'Where are you from?' is a common question. America is almost 50 states of mind. And from that melting-pot comes a rich tapestry of culture, significantly ignored in this thread.
These country threads should be geared to armchair tourists as well.
Thank you for your call to action - it has worked. Let's see some real Americana for a change - the sort that doesn't change every four years.

 

[Scaff]

So it seems it was actually Canada than burnt the White House down in 1812.

As a Brit I can say I'm glad we are off the hook at last.

Now what other thing we did can we get Trump to blame on the Canadians for us.

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...deau-didnt-you-guys-burn-down-the-white-house

 

[Biggles]

In relation to America - someone mentioned here once (crude but basic to the point) that the United States is like fifty countries banded together. Deeper is the fact that even crossing a State line can have you speaking in a different accent - you wouldn't have to fly too far. 'Where are you from?' is a common question. America is almost 50 states of mind. And from that melting-pot comes a rich tapestry of culture, significantly ignored in this thread.

There certainly are regional differences but compared to Europe, for example, the United States is remarkably homogenous. It's not really a "rich tapestry of culture" - the way people live, think & speak has been very much molded by mass media so that everybody is watching the same movies & TV shows, listening to the same music, staying in the same motels, going to the same chain restaurants & eating the same food. The Outback Steak House in Worcester, Mass is identical to the one in Phoenix, Arizona. Go to a country like Italy & there are extremely varied regional dialects & completely distinct local cuisines, architecture/building materials, music traditions etc. ... although the influence of homogenized American corporate culture is gradually spreading across the globe.

 

[TexRex]

I didn't want to be "that guy," particularly when I've appreciated the break from the usual here, so I'm glad something else has come up to give me this opportunity for...well...I'd say reflection but I hadn't yet been born.

Robert Francis Kennedy died 50 years ago today, after having been gunned down in the kitchen of The Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles.

After requiem mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral in Manhattan where is body lay in repose, he was transported by private train (the trip taking twice as long as was typical due to thousands of mourners lining the tracks and stations along the route) to where he was finally laid to rest in Arlington National Cemetery, close to his brother John.

I'm not the least bit ashamed to say I had difficulty sourcing and composing this.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I didn't want to be "that guy," particularly when I've appreciated the break from the usual here, so I'm glad something else has come up to give me this opportunity for...well...I'd say reflection but I hadn't yet been born.

Robert Francis Kennedy died 50 years ago today, after having been gunned down in the kitchen of The Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles.

After requiem mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral in Manhattan where is body lay in repose, he was transported by private train (the trip taking twice as long as was typical due to thousands of mourners lining the tracks and stations along the route) to where he was finally laid to rest in Arlington National Cemetery, close to his brother John.

I'm not the least bit ashamed to say I had difficulty sourcing and composing this.

It's very "of its time" but a great recording. Why did he miss the last (and imo best) verse off, timing constraints? Also good that he sang "die" instead of "live", I always hate to hear that change

 

[DDastardly00]

There certainly are regional differences but compared to Europe, for example, the United States is remarkably homogenous. It's not really a "rich tapestry of culture" - the way people live, think & speak has been very much molded by mass media so that everybody is watching the same movies & TV shows, listening to the same music, staying in the same motels, going to the same chain restaurants & eating the same food. The Outback Steak House in Worcester, Mass is identical to the one in Phoenix, Arizona. Go to a country like Italy & there are extremely varied regional dialects & completely distinct local cuisines, architecture/building materials, music traditions etc. ... although the influence of homogenized American corporate culture is gradually spreading across the globe.

I'd say that's a pretty pessimistic, generalized view. I'm sure there is some truth in all of that but not nearly enough. The majority of the people I know, do not listen to the same music, watch the same shows and so on. I have eaten at an outback steakhouse maybe one or twice and that was when the chain first opened, I usually go non-chain restaurants myself, I don't really watch any shows, and I'm pretty far outside of the mainstream when it comes to music, and I know many people that are like-minded when it comes to music.

We also do have a rich tapestry of people here, from our Native American heritage, African American heritage, the Hispanic/Native American heritage (rooted in states like California, Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona), to our European ancestry and so many more, there is so much diversity here. And that is just a start, we could get into, say the Creole people of Louisiana, with their mixed ancestry of French, Spanish, Native American and African, and I didn't even get into Cajun people and there heritage. What about Texas? I could spend a day just talking about the melting pot that state is.

Fun fact:

Did you know that Tejano music originated from Polka and other forms of music like Conjunto, Cumbia and Mariachi? Listen to the rhythm the next time you hear Tejano, Conjunto, Mariachi music, it's the Polka rhythm and is unmistakable. Where did this happen? In the great state of Texas when the German settlers came and brought the music (which is actually of Czech origin) to Texas and also Mexico. The Mexican Revolution caused mass migrations of German, Polish and Czech settlers into southern Texas and parts of Mexico which caused the spread of this music and led to it being wildly popular in the 20th century.

 

[Danoff]

Plus... we literally have a chain called the melting pot so... I think that proves... actually I'm not sure but it seemed relevant.

 

[photonrider]

……XsnipX…..

What about Texas? I could spend a day just talking about the melting pot that state is.

……….XsnipX…….

Oh! Goody!

Let me strike up some music then to put you in the mood.





I have to agree with you - the homeless in Hawaii don't see America in the same way as the bonfire of vanity on Wall Street.
What binds them - makes them homogenous - is the allegiance to the same Constitution, Flag, and Anthem.
Not just a pair of Levis and a Coke.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There certainly are regional differences but compared to Europe, for example, the United States is remarkably homogenous. It's not really a "rich tapestry of culture" - the way people live, think & speak has been very much molded by mass media so that everybody is watching the same movies & TV shows, listening to the same music, staying in the same motels, going to the same chain restaurants & eating the same food. The Outback Steak House in Worcester, Mass is identical to the one in Phoenix, Arizona. Go to a country like Italy & there are extremely varied regional dialects & completely distinct local cuisines, architecture/building materials, music traditions etc. ... although the influence of homogenized American corporate culture is gradually spreading across the globe.

I get where @DDastardly00 is coming from in his disagreement with your point but I think it's more nuanced than that: America is built on so many indigenous and imported cultures that it's incredibly diverse but there is seemingly a wholesale uptake of 'chain' culture where, as you point out, every McDonalds (to use a chain I recognise) is identical and people buy into that on a large scale. I don't know if your McDonalds are like ours, or if the toilets get cleaned in the USA

 

[Danoff]

I get where @DDastardly00 is coming from in his disagreement with your point but I think it's more nuanced than that: America is built on so many indigenous and imported cultures that it's incredibly diverse but there is seemingly a wholesale uptake of 'chain' culture where, as you point out, every McDonalds (to use a chain I recognise) is identical and people buy into that on a large scale. I don't know if your McDonalds are like ours, or if the toilets get cleaned in the USA

Ok but... some chains are great. McDonalds btw is a chain that I visit frequently, not because I like the food, it's not really very good (the coffee is pretty good actually), but I have kids and it is magic for kids (playscape required). Same for Chick Fil-A except the food is pretty good.

Why do I like chains? First you have to consider where chains come from. One of my favorite chains (which recently made its way from Texas to Colorado) is Chuy's, which serves up some absolutely fantastic tex-mex. Chuy's started in Austin Texas as one (awesome) restaurant, and started opening additional locations because demand was so great. It's a chain because it's fantastic. The other reason I like chains is because you know what to expect. With most (not all, Colorado's amazing "Snooze" being an example of not all) chains, the quality is good from one location to the next. You can pick your favorite item off the list and you get what you expect. This is great if you're in a strange city and don't have time or access to try out all of the local cuisine. Sometimes you're in a strange city where you can't make a meal mistake (eg: right before a big interview or meeting), and you need something quick, predictable, and satisfying. This is often true of stops on road trips when you need to make good time.

Chains are like a foot in the door in a strange city. They give you a chance to get by without hating life until you've learned from the locals where all the great location-specific restaurants are that serve the unique amazing food of that location. And sometimes they're just a great chance to get the unique amazing food from some other location in your city.

I'm not necessarily accusing you of this, but I do want to say, that disliking a restaurant just because it's a chain is just as bad as disliking one because it's not. It's the same mistake. Also Outback Steakhouse is terrible.

 

[ryzno]

or if the toilets get cleaned in the USA

Depends where you are.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Ok but... some chains are great. McDonalds btw is a chain that I visit frequently, not because I like the food, it's not really very good (the coffee is pretty good actually), but I have kids and it is magic for kids (playscape required). Same for Chick Fil-A except the food is pretty good.

I'd agree that not all chains are bad and I definitely identify with having a familiar reference point in a strange city. I still get the impression that a lot of America buys into that chain thinking and that much of the inevitable local diversity is lost as a result.

 

[Danoff]

I'd agree that not all chains are bad and I definitely identify with having a familiar reference point in a strange city. I still get the impression that a lot of America buys into that chain thinking and that much of the inevitable local diversity is lost as a result.

Maybe it's specifically where I live, but I see both - people absolutely flocking to certain chains because they're familiar, and people absolutely flocking to certain one-off restaurants just because they're not chains, and people hating on a chain just because it's a chain, and... no nobody hates on local restaurants just because they're not chains. Sometimes those are all the same people.

Sometimes I just want to tell people... look, you're over thinking this. Is it good food? That's all that matters. Stop caring whether or not you can tell everyone with pride that you went there... nobody cares.

Food trucks have really gotten that way here. People just love to tell you they ate at some fashionable food truck. They'll walk right past a cheaper, better, sit-down, full-service restaurant to get to one. It drives me bonkers.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'd agree that not all chains are bad and I definitely identify with having a familiar reference point in a strange city. I still get the impression that a lot of America buys into that chain thinking and that much of the inevitable local diversity is lost as a result.

I think it's a regional thing, as Danoff says.

When I lived in suburban North-Texas, chains were ubiquitous and almost a way of life. When I lived in Maine as a kid, I distinctly remember the first time I even saw a Taco Bell (circa 1995) [I also remember the first time I saw a black person, but that's a different story]. Michigan was somewhere in between. (Northern) Coastal California seems to have a rejectionist attitude towards many chains and there are definitely efforts made to not allow them to take over....but more local chains (In-in-out) seem to get a pass.

I miss Chuy's. And Velvet Taco. And Fuzzy's Tacos. And Torchy's Tacos. And Whataburger. And Baker Street Pub. And that bean dip from Glorias. Damn Texas has some good chains.

In comparison to Europe I think things are a little more blurry in the USA. There are, I'd say, sharper cultural divisions (following the borders, mostly) in Europe but the populations tend to be more homogeneous within them. US is more of a diffused soup of interlinked cultures.

Europe - Piet Mondrian (Early to Mid career, to be a little less on the nose)
USA - George Seurat

Related:

 

[DDastardly00]

I think the other wrench to throw in here is there are usually less or even perhaps no chains at all the further outside cities you get. Many rural areas don't have a McDonalds or a Walmart. One example I can give is a town we frequently vacation at, Chelan, better known as Lake Chelan. It's a tourist destination that has really been developed quite heavily since I have been going there as a kid. When the Washington Wine market exploded, so did the town of Chelan. We're talking vacation condos, golf courses, more restaurants and vineyards galore now dot the landscape all around the lake. BUT, no chains were let in for the longest time except the Safeway Grocery story, no chain restaurants still to this day. They did eventually let in a Starbucks and now there is a Walmart but it way outside the town, in fact it might be out of city limits, maybe that is how Walmart got around building it because the town council has fiercely fought off chains for years.

Here is the town, main street, no chains other than the Starbucks and Safeway in the town- proper

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I think the other wrench to throw in here is there are usually less or even perhaps no chains at all the further outside cities you get. Many rural areas don't have a McDonalds or a Walmart. One example I can give is a town we frequently vacation at, Chelan, better known as Lake Chelan. It's a tourist destination that has really been developed quite heavily since I have been going there as a kid. When the Washington Wine market exploded, so did the town of Chelan. We're talking vacation condos, golf courses, more restaurants and vineyards galore now dot the landscape all around the lake. BUT, no chains were let in for the longest time except the Safeway Grocery story, no chain restaurants still to this day. They did eventually let in a Starbucks and now there is a Walmart but it way outside the town, in fact it might be out of city limits, maybe that is how Walmart got around building it because the town council has fiercely fought off chains for years.

Walmart will find a way. Always.

...At the same time, the company proceeded to systematically build a physical line of stores along the Vermont border. This blockade of retail outlets proved to be more potent than policy negotiations because it effectively saturated the market without ever entering it. By the time Walmart was allowed access to the state, the real battle had already been won....

Confronted, as they were, with intense opposition within Vermont, Walmart adopted an aggressive siege strategy and proceeded to systematically surround the state with outlets in an attempt to lure its inaccessible target market across the borders into New York, Massachusetts, or sales-tax-free New Hampshire. One reporter even suggested that Walmart was building a “Maginot Line of four open or soon-to-open stores along the state’s border.” (8) If Walmart could not enter Vermont, it would get as close as possible and distribute its locations to ensure saturated border coverage. There are seven Walmart locations within 5 miles from the border (two are even less than 2,000 feet away) and another six in a slightly larger ring around the state. (9) Taking a standard 20-mile radius as an index of coverage, the Vermont border is effectively sealed by Walmart stores. If one of the stakes in Vermont’s “battle” against Walmart is a kind of authentic “Vermont-ness,” then Walmart’s spatial tactics would, according to its opponents, threaten this quality. By encircling the state with precisely targeted retail locations, Walmart effectively acquired the market territory it was pursuing without entering Vermont itself. The state border that served as a political boundary is trumped by the “catchment areas” of the store locations and their strategic constellation effectively inscribes a new kind of elastic border within and around Vermont. Faced with the increasing migration of its tax-base, the state eventually agreed to allow Walmart entry into its domain.

 

[Danoff]

Walmart will find a way. Always.

One almost wonders whether the government was indeed carrying out the democratic interests of its constituents, given that they commuted to the borders to shop there.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

One almost wonders whether the government was indeed carrying out the democratic interests of its constituents, given that they commuted to the borders to shop there.

I don't think it's impossible. A person's political idealism (and vote) may not align nicely with their financial situation. Walmart is cheap...especially if you are paying zero tax on purchases in NH. "Not in my back yard!" is not quite the same thing as "Across the River".

Another analogy might be outlet stores. Urbanites might not want an outlet mall going up beside their favorite coffee shop but it doesn't mean they won't voluntarily (even cheerfully) drive a few miles outside of town to go shop at one.

 

[TexRex]

Food trucks have really gotten that way here. People just love to tell you they ate at some fashionable food truck.

*cough* *cough* Austin *cough* *cough*

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

*cough* *cough* Austin *cough* *cough*

I feel like Austin's food trucks are still somewhat "authentic" at least.

There is a permanent food truck 'park' beside where I work in a developing area in San Francisco. It seems to defeat the point of the "truck" part of Food truck when they are effectively "mounted" in place, complete with a fence enclosing the whole area. There's even a nearby restaurant, in a new building no less, that has a food truck painted onto the wall to make it "feel" like the food truck experience.

It reminds me a little of my first day in grad school...a pair of Angelinos were at a party I was attending. They were talking about taco shops in LA. While it was a superficially friendly conversation, I could tell each one of them was trying to outdo the other guy by naming the most obscure taco place in the whole city and claiming it to be the best. I was amused. "Oh yeah, that one's pretty good, but have you heard of ____ in Lomita?! Bro!"

 

[DDastardly00]

I generally bag my lunch and bring it to work, I don't go out much. I haven't really had the food truck experience, unless I am at a festival of some kind that has food trucks, but that's not very often. We have a lot of options around where I work but they're all restaurants and fast-food, no food trucks. If I do go out, there is Deli down the street from where I work that is very good, they are always busy too, great sandwiches, soups, salads, Wraps and homemade desserts, mom and pop place, super nice owners.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I generally bag my lunch and bring it to work, I don't go out much. I haven't really had the food truck experience, unless I am at a festival of some kind that has food trucks, but that's not very often. We have a lot of options around where I work but they're all restaurants and fast-food, no food trucks. If I do go out, there is Deli down the street from where I work that is very good, they are always busy too, great sandwiches, soups, salads, Wraps and homemade desserts, mom and pop place, super nice owners.

I have to say that when I see "artisanal" food outlets in repainted burger vans (or the hipster's favourite - the Citroen H-van) I think of my favourite Ladybird book what Father Christmas brought me last year:

Spoiler: Ladybird Book of Hipsters

 

[MatskiMonk]

Maybe it's specifically where I live, but I see both - people absolutely flocking to certain chains because they're familiar, and people absolutely flocking to certain one-off restaurants just because they're not chains, and people hating on a chain just because it's a chain, and... no nobody hates on local restaurants just because they're not chains. Sometimes those are all the same people.

Sometimes I just want to tell people... look, you're over thinking this. Is it good food? That's all that matters. Stop caring whether or not you can tell everyone with pride that you went there... nobody cares.

I'm a non-chain kinda guy. For two reasons mainly, firstly if it's when I'm travelling I'd rather partake of something a little more specific to the area than the same stuff I could probably get back home. Secondly, I'd prefer to support smaller local businesses that keep my money in the local area. My local McDonalds is always busy, but McDonalds is a known major tax avoider in the UK, as are a number of the coffee chains. Support the high street, and support local business.

 

[TexRex]

I have to say that when I see "artisanal" food outlets in repainted burger vans (or the hipster's favourite - the Citroen H-van) I think of my favourite Ladybird book what Father Christmas brought me last year:

Spoiler: Ladybird Book of Hipsters

View attachment 742004 View attachment 742003

Boom, ordered!

 

[DDastardly00]

I can't be the only one amused at the thought of the British-version of hipsters, the epidemic is truly worldwide....

Our own Pacific Northwest Hipsters are usually the Logger-bearded, flannel-wearing, man-bun hairstyle, kind.

 

[Joey D]

Our own Pacific Northwest Hipsters are usually the Logger-bearded, flannel-wearing, man-bun hairstyle, kind.

Now picture that but Mormon and replace craft beer with craft pop and you have Utah.