America - The Official Thread

[huskeR32]

I know right, I can't figure out why it's so hard for people accept the fact a good portion of America don't want to be Socialist.

I'm still waiting for you to specifically identify what aspects of socialism you think people want. For bonus points, list off which of the socialist aspects of our system that you would not want to give up. (Because, I promise you, there are socialist aspects of our society that you and the "good portion of America that doesn't want socialism" very much enjoy having.) Then explain why there's such a big difference between you and the people who voted for "some girl" up in Brooklyn.

Your continued inability to discuss this topic in any detail suggests to me that you're just knee-jerk reacting to the word "socialism" as if it's basically the same thing as Soviet-era communism. When I tell you there's a difference between that and Democratic Socialism, and that you should use the correct term, I'm not being pedantic. There's a world of difference between the ideas that candidates like Ocasio-Cortez promote, and the nebulous socialism/communism terms that a couple generations of Americans were raised to instinctively fear.

 

[ryzno]

I'm still waiting for you to specifically identify what aspects of socialism you think people want.

Lets use her campaign flyer to keep it simple.

I do agree with her Justice System reform...

For bonus points, list off which of the socialist aspects of our system that you would not want to give up.

I'd like to see them all fixed. For example Social Security going back to a savings fund for retirement, not another piggy bank for the government, not to mention cutting the tax on it.

Then explain why there's such a big difference between you and the people who voted for "some girl" up in Brooklyn.

They want what seems like everything for free. Why should the government guarantee you a job?
Why should my tax dollars pay for it? All we need is another DoT, 10 people around a ditch watching 2 people dig it... Waste Of Money.

Your continued inability to discuss this topic in any detail suggests to me that you're just knee-jerk reacting to the word "socialism" as if it's basically the same thing as Soviet-era communism.

I don't know how many times I've said, "I don't have the time." Hell Tex even mocked me about it once. But I will admit it was semi knee-jerk. I still don't really like it.

and that you should use the correct term

And I have since y'all corrected me.

 

[TexRex]

Hell Tex even mocked me about it once. But I will admit it was semi knee-jerk. I still don't really like it

"I don't have time to talk about this with y'all but I don't like it so I'm going to talk about it anyway."

Here's a novel idea: If you don't have time to talk about something, DON'T TALK ABOUT IT.

 

[ryzno]

"I don't have time to talk about this with y'all but I don't like it so I'm going to talk about it anyway."

Here's a novel idea: If you don't have time to talk about something, DON'T TALK ABOUT IT.

Dude...
I don't have time to respond in a few minutes every time I post something.
It's a forum. I respond when I can and it takes me time to actually do some research.
Did you ignore yesterday when I finally responded after a week?
AND admitted I was wrong that it would make America fail?
I work 70-90 hours a week. It takes me a day or 2 or 3... To actually do proper research.
There is no rule on how quickly someone responds. Some days I have a sweet route and do have time to respond quickly, others days I don't.
Also GA with its slow self just passed a hands free law last month. I can't hold my phone or even really touch it unless I'm parked.
And if I do forget, do like husker and remind me if you really are interested.
Nothing personal. But it feels like your post was........ Of everything I quoted , you quote this...

 

[Imari]

The US is already socialist to an extent. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, bailouts, wealth redistribution, etc. are all socialist ideals that the US already does.

The massive national military is probably the most socialist thing the US has, but they don't like to think of it that way. It's publically funded, and essentially "owned" by the public with a mandate to defend them.

The capitalist way would be to have PMCs and militia. Which is ironically how the US started. I wonder how far we could take the idea that the US is actually a strongly socialist state once you add up all the money that they spend on socialist institutions and programs.

 

[TexRex]

Dude...
I don't have time to respond in a few minutes every time I post something.
It's a forum. I respond when I can and it takes me time to actually do some research.
Did you ignore yesterday when I finally responded after a week?
AND admitted I was wrong that it would make America fail?
I work 70-90 hours a week. It takes me a day or 2 or 3... To actually do proper research.
There is no rule on how quickly someone responds. Some days I have a sweet route and do have time to respond quickly, others days I don't.
Also GA with its slow self just passed a hands free law last month. I can't hold my phone or even really touch it unless I'm parked.
And if I do forget, do like husker and remind me if you really are interested.
Nothing personal. But it feels like your post was........ Of everything I quoted , you quote this...

I don't--just as I suspect nobody else does--have an issue with it taking time for you to deliver a response. I also don't--and I suspect nobody else does either--hang around, waiting for a response. If it comes, it comes, and I have absolutely no perception of the time that has passed between solicitation and response. There are, however, cues that would suggest that a response isn't going to come, such as a user continuing to post comments and reply to other solicitations.

So by all means, take the time you need, but please, please, PLEASE stop saying you don't have the time, because it comes off as condescending ("I don't have time for this nonsense.")--which is the precise reason for my mocking it--and is entirely unnecessary if not intended to be condescending.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I don't--just as I suspect nobody else does--have an issue with it taking time for you to deliver a response. I also don't--and I suspect nobody else does either--hang around, waiting for a response. If it comes, it comes, and I have absolutely no perception of the time that has passed between solicitation and response. There are, however, cues that would suggest that a response isn't going to come, such as a user continuing to post comments and reply to other solicitations.

So by all means, take the time you need, but please, please, PLEASE stop saying you don't have the time, because it comes off as condescending ("I don't have time for this nonsense.")--which is the precise reason for my mocking it--and is entirely unnecessary if not intended to be condescending.

I've never thought of @ryzno as being condescending. He comes across as a very earnest guy who works hard and works very long hours and sometimes finds it difficult to keep up in threads that often move along at a prodigious clip. He's said it enough times (that he's busy, works long hours and falls behind in threads) I'd think it would have sunk in by now but I guess we just see what we want to see. I did not realize it was your place to criticize how others participate in this forum.

 

[TexRex]

I've never thought of @ryzno as being condescending. He comes across as a very earnest guy who works hard and works very long hours and sometimes finds it difficult to keep up in threads that often move along at a prodigious clip. He's said it enough times (that he's busy, works long hours and falls behind in threads) I'd think it would have sunk in by now but I guess we just see what we want to see. I did not realize it was your place to criticize how others participate in this forum.

*cough*

Isn't there a term for responding on the behalf of others? Whiteknighting or something?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I did not realize it was your place to criticize how others participate in this forum.

While I agree with the thrust of your observations regarding @ryzno it's difficult to take that kind of comment seriously from a participant who does exactly the same thing to the rest of us so regularly.

 

[Johnnypenso]

While I agree with the thrust of your observations regarding @ryzno it's difficult to take that kind of comment seriously from a participant who does exactly the same thing to the rest of us so regularly.

You should report it then. It's against the AUP to tell others how to post. I've many times seen people chastised openly by a mod in the forums for asking others to PLEASE stop posting, or words to that effect.

 

[ryzno]

I don't--just as I suspect nobody else does--have an issue with it taking time for you to deliver a response. I also don't--and I suspect nobody else does either--hang around, waiting for a response. If it comes, it comes, and I have absolutely no perception of the time that has passed between solicitation and response. There are, however, cues that would suggest that a response isn't going to come, such as a user continuing to post comments and reply to other solicitations.

So by all means, take the time you need, but please, please, PLEASE stop saying you don't have the time, because it comes off as condescending ("I don't have time for this nonsense.")--which is the precise reason for my mocking it--and is entirely unnecessary if not intended to be condescending.

I'm sorry you feel that way, I even said the few time I posted I would respond and even mentioned it in the wrong thread. It takes no time for me to post about Stromy being in a club down here. It does take time to answer to the essays I some times receive, over one or two sentences I post. As usual you find something other than the subject at hand to talk about...

The massive national military is probably the most socialist thing the US has, but they don't like to think of it that way. It's publicly funded, and essentially "owned" by the public with a mandate to defend them.

The capitalist way would be to have PMCs and militia. Which is ironically how the US started. I wonder how far we could take the idea that the US is actually a strongly socialist state once you add up all the money that they spend on socialist institutions and programs.

What makes a country Socialist(Democratic or not) by having a Military? Every country has a Military to protect them.
Now, our Military does step in in times of disaster or riot, but they do their job and protect us as you say. I see a Socialist nation as on that relies on tax payers to support the "unlucky".

 

[Johnnypenso]

*cough*

You should probably have that checked out. Could be a cough due to cold or maybe emphysema.

So much winning, just like Reagan. This isn't just yet another talking head on a fake news network, Mohamed El Erian was President Obama's Global Development Council (2012-17). Surprise surprise.

 

[Vagabond]

@all involved - shall we just agree that everyone can post in their own time, in their own way and answer whichever posts they want, from whomever, in whatever time-frame they like? Shall we also agree that someone feeling a little slighted when they don't receive a response while seeing someone else receive one seemingly out of turn is perfectly justified and that stating such does not breach the AUP and need not leave them open to reactionary belligerence?

Yes?

Good.

 

[SagarisGTB]

What makes a country Socialist(Democratic or not) by having a Military? Every country has a Military to protect them.
Now, our Military does step in in times of disaster or riot, but they do their job and protect us as you say. I see a Socialist nation as on that relies on tax payers to support the "unlucky".

As @Imari pointed out, the US military is funded by tax payers to provide a service for the people of the US (in this case, protection of sovereignty and actions abroad). The government has a monopoly on national defense and maintains full control of the military system (no free market option). It's by definition a social program, ie socialist in nature.

 

[TexRex]

So much winning, just like Reagan. This isn't just yet another talking head on a fake news network, Mohamed El Erian was President Obama's Global Development Council (2012-17). Surprise surprise.

*cough*

So you readily accept the positions and assertions presented by experts when those positions and assertions conform to your bias, but reject positions and assertions presented by experts (and indeed that very expertise) when they do not. Surprise surprise.

 

[Johnnypenso]

*cough*

So you readily accept the positions and assertions presented by experts when those positions and assertions conform to your bias, but reject positions and assertions presented by experts (and indeed that very expertise) when they do not. Surprise surprise.

I accept that this is this one expert's opinion, yes. I am not asserting however that he somehow represents all experts, all journalists, all pundits, all foreign policy experts, all Amercians of Egyptian descent with cool moustaches or anything of the sort. Just himself.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Elon Musk seems to be imploding, referring to one of the rescue team working in the Thai caves to free the trapped boys as a "pedo" because the person was critical of his submarine idea. He later doubled down on it on Twitter when challenged, saying he'd bet a dollar it was true. Another twitter user was called a "jackass" earlier in the week when the twitter user called the submarine idea absurd. Calling someone a child rapist is pretty serious business. I wonder if he'll face the standard backlash and outrage on social media and in the press for such an outrageous and unfounded allegation. Or maybe it's his covfefe moment and he actually meant to call him by is first name, Pedro, and his finger slipped?

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...k-british-diver-thai-cave-rescue-pedo-twitter

 

[TexRex]

I accept that this is this one expert's opinion, yes. I am not asserting however that he somehow represents all experts, all journalists, all pundits, all foreign policy experts, all Amercians of Egyptian descent with cool moustaches or anything of the sort. Just himself.

 

[UKMikey]

So much spinning...

 

[Imari]

What makes a country Socialist(Democratic or not) by having a Military? Every country has a Military to protect them.

Incorrect. When the United States was formed it did not have a standing military. It had a militia, and for fairly good reasons that were extremely relevant to their then recent past.

A professional military is not a mandatory requirement to be a country. For a list of current countries without militaries, I refer you to the great source that is Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces

Please note also that I did not say that having a military makes a country socialist. I pointed out that a military could be viewed as a socialist institution, and it might be interesting in light of the large amount that the US spends on the military and other more traditional socialist institutions like public healthcare to use those to judge how much of a socialist state the US is.

I get the impression you're rather less interested in this new way of viewing the current facts about the US as you are finding a way to make sure that the US isn't labeled as socialist.

@SagarisGTB has explained perfectly well why a single military run by the government for the sole benefit of the citizenry and funded by taxes could be viewed as a socialist institution. I see no need for me to add any more.

Elon Musk seems to be imploding, referring to one of the rescue team working in the Thai caves to free the trapped boys as a "pedo" because the person was critical of his submarine idea. He later doubled down on it on Twitter when challenged, saying he'd bet a dollar it was true. Another twitter user was called a "jackass" earlier in the week when the twitter user called the submarine idea absurd. Calling someone a child rapist is pretty serious business. I wonder if he'll face the standard backlash and outrage on social media and in the press for such an outrageous and unfounded allegation. Or maybe it's his covfefe moment and he actually meant to call him by is first name, Pedro, and his finger slipped?

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...k-british-diver-thai-cave-rescue-pedo-twitter

It shan't surprise me if this turns out to be the moment where Elon has jumped the shark and everyone realises that his being quite bright doesn't really make up for him being a colossal chunknugget.

 

[Touring Mars]

Elon Musk seems to be imploding, referring to one of the rescue team working in the Thai caves to free the trapped boys as a "pedo" because the person was critical of his submarine idea. He later doubled down on it on Twitter when challenged, saying he'd bet a dollar it was true. Another twitter user was called a "jackass" earlier in the week when the twitter user called the submarine idea absurd. Calling someone a child rapist is pretty serious business. I wonder if he'll face the standard backlash and outrage on social media and in the press for such an outrageous and unfounded allegation. Or maybe it's his covfefe moment and he actually meant to call him by is first name, Pedro, and his finger slipped?

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...k-british-diver-thai-cave-rescue-pedo-twitter

It shan't surprise me if this turns out to be the moment where Elon has jumped the shark and everyone realises that his being quite bright doesn't really make up for him being a colossal chunknugget.

I'm guessing that Musk doesn't have any evidence whatsoever and irritated by the knock-back he got from people who actually knew what they were doing - if he has any sense he will settle out of court for a small fortune and apologise. What a cretin.

 

[Liquid]

I don't find him very personable or affable at all, despite his successes and being tech savvy. Elon Musk is a living Bond villain.

Charming the userbases of sites like Reddit and Imgur makes him a villain with good publicity.

 

[Joey D]

So Musk is being Musk? Meh, seems par for the course.

I do like that he said he'd fix Flint's water problem though. Goes to show that all it takes is one person to come in and do something the government is incapable of doing. Although with the local government in Flint and the state government in Michigan, I'm actually surprised the state works at all. It's just a chain of inept people across the board.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So Musk is being Musk? Meh, seems par for the course.

I do like that he said he'd fix Flint's water problem though. Goes to show that all it takes is one person to come in and do something the government is incapable of doing. Although with the local government in Flint and the state government in Michigan, I'm actually surprised the state works at all. It's just a chain of inept people across the board.

Maybe he's getting ramped up for a run at the Presidency, testing the waters so to speak.

 

[TexRex]

Maybe he's getting ramped up for a run at the Presidency, testing the waters so to speak.

That's rather offensive language for a perspective presidential candi--...
































...oh.

 

[TexRex]

HOLY CRAP ON A CRACKER!!! NO HOLDS BARRED!!! THE QUESTION WAS ASKED!!!

Okay, I'm done shouting...



Edit: Apologies for the double-post, it just jumped out.

 

[Liquid]

Maybe he's getting ramped up for a run at the Presidency, testing the waters so to speak.

On a serious note, he's be disqualified by being South African, wouldn't he? No kind of natural-born citizen.

 

[Joey D]

On a serious note, he's be disqualified by being South African, wouldn't he? No kind of natural-born citizen.

Yup, but he could run for governor of California assuming he is an American citizen (I believe he is). That'd actually be pretty wild.

 

[TexRex]

On a serious note, he's be disqualified by being South African, wouldn't he? No kind of natural-born citizen.

You sound like a birther.



...

...



Edit: I mean...since nobody else is going to...



I'm impressed by how well he stuck to what was written for him--even if he sounded a bit like a third-grader reading aloud the report on his trip to the natural history museum that his mom wrote in cursive--but it was when responding to questions from members of the press that he flew off the rails and things started to sound like his repeatedly regurgitated campaign-style rally bullpucky.

I particularly like that bit at 1:02:52, and indeed that's what caused me to erupt in the manner that I did.



Also, it's difficult to not love Norah O'Donnell.

 

[Biggles]

Nothing on the Trump/Putin summit?

This is getting beyond bizarre. The President of the US publically attacks America's long standing allies while cozying up to the autocratic (18 years & counting) leader of Russia & takes the word of Putin over the opinion of multiple US national security & law agencies.

Trump is either:

1) A complete idiot.

2) So obsessed with having won the election on his own merits that he would rather damage national security than accept the possibility of interference by Russia.

3) Seriously compromised by something Putin & the Russians have on him - personally or financially.

Or possibly a combination of the three.