America - The Official Thread

[Johnnypenso]

On a serious note, he's be disqualified by being South African, wouldn't he? No kind of natural-born citizen.

I genuinely had no idea. I always thought he was an American, born and bred.

 

[McLaren]

Maybe he's getting ramped up for a run at the Presidency, testing the waters so to speak.

Despite being a non-native and disqualified as such, he'd probably have to run as an Independent as I'm not sure either party would ever accept him. He's protested Trump and supported fighting climate change, but is also in hot water for giving money to the GOP.

He'd probably make a lot of headway more than any other Independent just b/c he's that famous, but I think the both sides are too divided for a person to give their vote to a 3rd party if it meant the opposing Reps/Dems could potentially win without that vote for their usual party.

 

[huskeR32]

Nothing on the Trump/Putin summit?

Did you actually expect fruitful conversation on that topic?

This is getting beyond bizarre. The President of the US publically attacks America's long standing allies while cozying up to the autocratic (18 years & counting) leader of Russia & takes the word of Putin over the opinion of multiple US national security & law agencies.

Trump is either:

1) A complete idiot.

2) So obsessed with having won the election on his own merits that he would rather damage national security than accept the possibility of interference by Russia.

3) Seriously compromised by something Putin & the Russians have on him - personally or financially.

Or possibly a combination of the three.

At this point, I'd say #3 is pretty much a lock. And as GOP members in Congress have shown zero interest in taking any action to back up their empty anti-Trump comments, it falls on the red hats to realize that throwing the US under the bus in order to appease Putin isn't, in fact, making America great again, and start voting accordingly. I won't be holding my breath.

 

[ryzno]

Did you actually expect fruitful conversation on that topic?



At this point, I'd say #3 is pretty much a lock. And as GOP members in Congress have shown zero interest in taking any action to back up their empty anti-Trump comments, it falls on the red hats to realize that throwing the US under the bus in order to appease Putin isn't, in fact, making America great again, and start voting accordingly. I won't be holding my breath.

What if kissing his butt is part of his grand plan? Y'all quickly forgot he just slammed him and Germany the other day.
You know the old saying, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

 

[Joey D]

I actually hope Trump has a plan here. Throwing the intelligence community under the bus isn't exactly the best way to win over other politicians to your cause. Also, I can't imagine buddying up with Russia in any way will sit well with anyone who lived through the Cold War - which is everyone who's currently in the government and not a red-blooded Soviet-era Communist.

It just floors me to think 50 years ago Russia was pointing nuclear weapons at the US with its hand hovering over the button and now we're to the point where we believe them over our own intelligence. I can't see many Republicans, who are probably incredibly anti-Russian, liking this move.

I also don't get the whole calling the EU a "foe".

 

[Dotini]

I actually hope Trump has a plan here. Throwing the intelligence community under the bus isn't exactly the best way to win over other politicians to your cause. Also, I can't imagine buddying up with Russia in any way will sit well with anyone who lived through the Cold War - which is everyone who's currently in the government and not a red-blooded Soviet-era Communist.

It just floors me to think 50 years ago Russia was pointing nuclear weapons at the US with its hand hovering over the button and now we're to the point where we believe them over our own intelligence. I can't see many Republicans, who are probably incredibly anti-Russian, liking this move.

I also don't get the whole calling the EU a "foe".

The headline articles today in my favorite libertarian website are glowing positive in reaction to Trump's Russia peace overtures.
http://www.antiwar.com

 

[huskeR32]

What if kissing his butt is part of his grand plan? Y'all quickly forgot he just slammed him and Germany the other day.
You know the old saying, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

What's the grand plan? It had better be good, because going up on the world stage and throwing your own country's intelligence services under the bus is a big price to pay.

 

[Biggles]

Did you actually expect fruitful conversation on that topic?



At this point, I'd say #3 is pretty much a lock. And as GOP members in Congress have shown zero interest in taking any action to back up their empty anti-Trump comments, it falls on the red hats to realize that throwing the US under the bus in order to appease Putin isn't, in fact, making America great again, and start voting accordingly. I won't be holding my breath.

Based on his public retraction this afternoon, I'd say there's a possibility it could be mostly #1.

The headline articles today in my favorite libertarian website are glowing positive in reaction to Trump's Russia peace overtures.
http://www.antiwar.com

"Glowing positive"? How does precipitating a global trade war, attacking immigration, reneging on the Iran nuclear deal & demanding a massive increase in Nato military spending match up with libertarian views?

 

[DDastardly00]

And the narrative today is just about Russia......stupid. Hillary was hacked by China, SK, and Germany back in 2015 according to Politico. Her server was so unsecure, I bet there were a lot more than just those three too. How compromised was Hillary? Very compromised.

https://www.politico.com/story/2015...rver-hacked-china-south-korea-germany-214546

 

[AbeFroman75]

Can any of our esteemed lefties please tell me how this Russia thing the other day was in any way as bad as Pearl Harbor, 9/11, or the Cuban Missile Crisis?

 

[huskeR32]

And the narrative today is just about Russia......stupid. Hillary was hacked by China, SK, and Germany back in 2015 according to Politico. Her server was so unsecure, I bet there were a lot more than just those three too. How compromised was Hillary? Very compromised.

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/hillary-clinton-email-server-hacked-china-south-korea-germany-214546

Hillary Clinton's private email server containing tens of thousands of messages from her tenure as secretary of state — including more than 400 now considered classified — was the subject of hacking attempts from China, South Korea and Germany after she stepped down in 2013, according to Congressional investigators.

The Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee has found evidence of attempted intrusions into Clinton's server in 2013 and 2014

...

If Clinton opened attachments in the emails, her account and server could have been vulnerable to hacking, although it is unclear if she did so.

...

The attempted intrusions reported late Wednesday by AP

...

It's unclear whether Clinton's emails would have been more protected in the State Department's systems.

---

Can any of our esteemed lefties please tell me how this Russia thing the other day was in any way as bad as Pearl Harbor, 9/11, or the Cuban Missile Crisis?

What a ridiculous question.

 

[ryzno]

What's the grand plan? It had better be good, because going up on the world stage and throwing your own country's intelligence services under the bus is a big price to pay.

He just held a presser and corrected himself.

 

[DDastardly00]

But Russia!!!!

Chinese efforts to exert covert influence over the West are just as concerning as Russian subversion, the director of the CIA has said.

Mike Pompeo told the BBC that the Chinese "have a much bigger footprint" to do this than the Russians do.

BBC news:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42867076

 

[huskeR32]

He just held a presser and corrected himself.

Utterly predictable at this point. The message was received loud and clear, now he reverses course, claims it was a misunderstanding, and sits back while the red hats accuse teh libruhls of making up fake news. How many times does he need to do it before folks get tired of being played for fools?

Out of curiosity, which of your two scenarios do you believe? That it was all some master plan of manipulation? Or that it was an honest misunderstanding, and has now been corrected?

 

[AbeFroman75]

What a ridiculous question.

So you can't answer?

That is what was said all day yesterday on CNN, MSNBC, HuffPo, etc. If you can't answer that, can you please tell me how this "rises to & exceeds the threshold of high crimes & misdemeanors." ?

 

[DDastardly00]

Here is the full paragraph, btw, I put the first sentence back in there for you since it changes the context by leaving it out..

The last batch of Clinton's emails released by the State Department under a court order in a Freedom of Information Act suit showed that Clinton received at least five emails from hackers linked to Russia. If Clinton opened attachments in the emails, her account and server could have been vulnerable to hacking, although it is unclear if she did so.
----

Bottom line is Hillary was hacked by multiple sources not just Russia, on an unprotected server. It would be foolish to assume that Russia was the only country successful at hacking an unprotected server. I wouldn't be surprised if over 6 country's spy agencies had access to those emails.

 

[TexRex]

But Russia!!!!



BBC news:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42867076

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38029336

After Mr Trump said he believed Russian President Vladimir Putin's denials, Mr Pompeo firmly stood by US assessments of Moscow's alleged meddling.

Edit: Not that I put a great deal of stock into what either of these men say...from just prior to that in the article:

Mr Pompeo is seen as a Trump loyalist who performed a delicate balancing act at the CIA in managing frayed relations between the spy agency and a commander-in-chief who compared America's intelligence services to Nazis.

He has in the past played down findings by the CIA that the Russians attempted to influence last year's US election.

But when push comes to shove, he has shown a willingness to contradict the president on the issue.

It's that last bit that suggests to me that he won't last nearly as long as Tillerson did.

 

[huskeR32]

So you can't answer?

You're comparing apples to footballs.

Your list of events were attacks perpetrated against the US by foreign powers. Trump's public statements at the summit was our own president undermining our intelligence services. I can't begin to fathom why you think somebody should compare them.

---

Here is the full paragraph, btw, I put the first sentence back in there for you since it changes the context by leaving it out..

The last batch of Clinton's emails released by the State Department under a court order in a Freedom of Information Act suit showed that Clinton received at least five emails from hackers linked to Russia. If Clinton opened attachments in the emails, her account and server could have been vulnerable to hacking, although it is unclear if she did so.
----

Bottom line is Hillary was hacked by multiple sources not just Russia, on an unprotected server. It would be foolish to assume that Russia was the only country successful at hacking an unprotected server. I wouldn't be surprised if over 6 country's spy agencies had access to those emails.

That full paragraph still contains the word "if." Twice. Not sure what part of that word you're not clear on, but it means she might not have been hacked at all.

You do realize that the indictment of the 12 Russians last week was for hacking DNC and DCCC servers, and not Clinton's private server, right?

 

[ryzno]

Out of curiosity, which of your two scenarios do you believe? That it was all some master plan of manipulation? Or that it was an honest misunderstanding, and has now been corrected?

I do believe he misspoke and I do believe the butt kissing is part of his plan. While we have a history we gotta sit down and talk at some point...

 

[huskeR32]

I do believe he misspoke and I do believe the butt kissing is part of his plan. While we have a history we gotta sit down and talk at some point...

If he misspoke, then he's saying that Russia did attempt to interfere with our elections, at which point I don't see how it constitutes "kissing butt" in any way at all. It can't be both.

 

[AbeFroman75]

You're comparing apples to footballs.

Your list of events were attacks perpetrated against the US by foreign powers. Trump's public statements at the summit was our own president undermining our intelligence services. I can't begin to fathom why you think somebody should compare them.

Ok, so you agree that the entirety of the left is just being ridiculous about this whole situation and it's their TDS flaring up that causes them to make these stupid comparisons.

I think it's cool that we can come together and agree.


Edit: Just a friendly reminder, you'll get a ding for not using the multi-quote function. They're obscenely strict about that.

 

[05XR8]

So, what are those in power doing? Sitting on their hands, powerless?

 

[huskeR32]

Ok, so you agree that the entirety of the left is just being ridiculous about this whole situation

I haven't the slightest clue how you came to that conclusion, but no, I don't think it's ridiculous to be angry about Trump selling out our own intelligence community to please an autocrat.

and it's their TDS flaring up that causes them to make these stupid comparisons.

I have no idea what TDS is, and I'm also not aware of "the left" making any comparisons at all. Do you have links to people comparing Trump's behavior to Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and/or the Cuban Missile Crisis?

I think it's cool that we can come together and agree.

We very much haven't.

 

[TexRex]

I do believe he misspoke and I do believe the butt kissing is part of his plan. While we have a history we gotta sit down and talk at some point...

Misspoke? He was asked specifically to reject claims from Putin that Russia did not meddle. He was asked by AP moments before his imbecilic dancing around the issue, and leading up to the summit, Republican senator Lindsey Graham stated that he wanted to see Trump reject those claims.

 

[DDastardly00]

You're comparing apples to footballs.

Your list of events were attacks perpetrated against the US by foreign powers. Trump's public statements at the summit was our own president undermining our intelligence services. I can't begin to fathom why you think somebody should compare them.

---



That full paragraph still contains the word "if." Twice. Not sure what part of that word you're not clear on, but it means she might not have been hacked at all.

You do realize that the indictment of the 12 Russians last week was for hacking DNC and DCCC servers, and not Clinton's private server, right?

Hillary was hacked, the emails have been out there for quite some time, at this point it would be quite silly to even question this. She was also hacked by multiple countries, this has also been confirmed by the Dept of Homeland security. As for the DNC hack, that was likely an inside job, not Russia, but since the intelligence agencies are withholding that information, we will likely never know...

http://www.businessinsider.com/cia-pompeo-former-official-dnc-hack-trump-russia-intelligence-2017-11

 

[huskeR32]

Misspoke? He was asked specifically to reject claims from Putin that Russia did not meddle.

Somehow, Trump is simultaneously dumb enough to not understand what was clearly being asked of him, but also so unbelievably brilliant that it's all a ploy to trick Putin into doing... well, I have no idea what.

---

Hillary was hacked, the emails have been out there for quite some time, at this point it would be quite silly to even question this.

Gonna need a source on this one.

She was also hacked by multiple countries, this has also been confirmed by the Dept of Homeland security.

And this one.

As for the DNC hack, that was likely an inside job, not Russia, but since the intelligence agencies are withholding that information, we will likely never know...

http://www.businessinsider.com/cia-pompeo-former-official-dnc-hack-trump-russia-intelligence-2017-11

So, like Trump, you're also of the opinion that last week's indictment was false, and our own intelligence agencies are lying? Because your own article says:

These findings contradict the official findings of the four intelligence agencies that investigated the incident, which all concluded that Russia was behind a remote breach of the DNC's servers

 

[AbeFroman75]

I haven't the slightest clue how you came to that conclusion, but no, I don't think it's ridiculous to be angry about Trump selling out our own intelligence community to please an autocrat.



I have no idea what TDS is, and I'm also not aware of "the left" making any comparisons at all. Do you have links to people comparing Trump's behavior to Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and/or the Cuban Missile Crisis?
.

You don't watch CNN, or MSNBC? I'm not going to get video links of every second of every show they had yesterday (for god sake they had a few panelists ready to start crying because "America died on 7/16/2018") but here are a few highlights
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...atic-analysis-of-trump-putin-press-conference

So, do you agree with these comparisons in anyway? Do you think any of this "rises to & exceeds the threshold for high crimes & misdemeanors"? Or do you think the TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) is just flaring up?

 

[DDastardly00]

Somehow, Trump is simultaneously dumb enough to not understand what was clearly being asked of him, but also so unbelievably brilliant that it's all a ploy to trick Putin into doing... well, I have no idea what.

---



Gonna need a source on this one.



And this one.



So, like Trump, you're also of the opinion that last week's indictment was false, and our own intelligence agencies are lying? Because your own article says:

I'm simply keeping an open mind until evidence is presented to support the claim. So far it appears the FBI hasn't exactly been forthcoming with this information. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...re_you_keeping_information_from_congress.html As Rep Jim Jordan recently claimed.

 

[huskeR32]

You don't watch CNN, or MSNBC?

I do not.

I'm not going to get video links of every second of every show they had yesterday (for god sake they had a few panelists ready to start crying because "America died on 7/16/2018") but here are a few highlights
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...atic-analysis-of-trump-putin-press-conference

In that article, it reads to me that people are comparing Russia's hacking and interference, not Trump's behavior at the summit, to those attacks. That's an entirely different question.

Which means that here...

So, do you agree with these comparisons in anyway? Do you think any of this "rises to & exceeds the threshold for high crimes & misdemeanors"? Or do you think the TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) is just flaring up?

...you're conflating two different things. Do I agree that Russia's interference in our elections is comparable to Pearl Harbor or 9/11? No. I don't. Do I think that Trump telling the world yesterday that Putin is right and our own intelligence agencies are wrong constitutes treasonous behavior? I'm not sure, but it's certainly concerning.

---

I'm simply keeping an open mind until evidence is presented to support the claim.

No, you're stating unequivocally that Clinton was hacked. As far as I'm aware, that's never been shown. The DNC was hacked. The DCCC was hacked. John Podesta was hacked. Those hacks included emails to/from Clinton. But that's not the same thing as her private server getting hacked.

 

[TexRex]

TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome)

From what two-bit right-wing vlog did you purloin that?