America - The Official Thread

[mustafur]

Good. Maybe it'll finally be possible for normal people in their 20s and 30s to buy a house for under $500k.

Maybe(well yes, as long as you have a job when the economy goes into enviable recession),A massive chunk of our Economy is tied to the construction of building these properties, properties that are only built because the reserve bank is giving extremely cheap money to banks which in turn gives massive home loans to people that couldn't afford them if the interest rates where not at record lows.

Ireland's housing Market took a massive hit from the GFC due to this, with prices dropping as much as 80% we are in a much worse position all we need is something to trigger it, either slowly by interest rate rises or a Market crash with a major trading Partner(probably China).

 

[Johnnypenso]

The primary cause was deregulation for the 2008 crisis. You are correct it wasnt without regulation or no oversight. But less regulation and less oversight did caus it.

This is the simplistic view that the MSM and talking heads would like you to believe but it's far more complicated than that. Yes, the decisions that large banks made played a role in the crisis but that is only the tip of the iceberg.

I did not know that the government provided directly for risky subprime mortgages.

Then you really don't know anything about the 2008 financial crisis.

Didnt you believe in a totally free market? Perhaps I mixed you up with another member.

Generally speaking yes, I believe in free markets, but there are a great many rules and regulations that make sense to me. Completely unregulated markets in a world as diverse and complicated as we live in would be chaos. A highly regulated and limited banking sector would be an example of a place where strong regulation makes sense and limiting the financial sectors that banks can get into is common sense. One only need look at our conservative and highly regulated banking sector here in Canada and how we sailed through the 2008 financial crisis mostly unscathed.

Could you provide more reading material? If you are suggesting that the government is at fault because they provided the freedom to let the banks take unnessary risks, what do you think of the trump administration poshing for a free healthcare market and deregulation in the financial sector again? Making the same mistakes you are referencing to.

Try searching the terms I used above. Try searching (I use DuckDuckGo, I don't trust google) something along the lines of "did the government cause the 2008 financial crisis". I haven't vetted these but the sources seem reputable:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/norber...is-and-made-the-recession-worse/#53f3d9f5564e
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richar...-of-government-not-free-markets/#7c45c8cb51c3

I am not aware of what specific changes Trump is proposing but generally speaking anything that makes the banking industry more speculative and less trustworthy would not be the direction I would be moving.

 

[Danoff]

Trump's policy - providing a huge tax cut stimulus during an upswing in economic activity could help precipitate it by increasing the deficit & triggering inflation.

I missed this one. My exact point was that providing tax cuts actually reduced the deficit. Other spending measures increased it more than the reduction, but the tax cuts themselves reduced it. To say that a different way, if the same taxes had been maintained the government would have less revenue.

So once again, higher taxes does not mean more revenue.

 

[mustafur]

Well the Migrant Caravan has gotten into Mexico now, only the US border remains.

 

[Biggles]

I missed this one. My exact point was that providing tax cuts actually reduced the deficit. Other spending measures increased it more than the reduction, but the tax cuts themselves reduced it. To say that a different way, if the same taxes had been maintained the government would have less revenue.

So once again, higher taxes does not mean more revenue.

You mean in some imaginary libertarian scenario? In the real world, federal revenue rose only slightly, by $14 billion. which might have been expected in during an economic expansion.

Given that America isn't alone with how this has been done, with Keynes economic model I would say it's a theory based model not a reality based one, like Communism and Socialism.

The Keynsian economic model is nothing like Communism, or even "Socialism" ... & it's hardly a "theory based model" - it's been a nuanced, complex & adaptable practical model operating for decades in western economies. It has seen the largest economic expansion & increase of general prosperity in human history.

 

[mustafur]

The Keynsian economic model is nothing like Communism, or even "Socialism" ... & it's hardly a "theory based model" - it's been a nuanced, complex & adaptable practical model operating for decades in western economies. It has seen the largest economic expansion & increase of general prosperity in human history.

Given that the theory can't be followed properly it is a theory based model, It has brought the ''too big to fail'' Doctrine into the equation since you have Corporations mixed in with Central banks, it has made basically every 1st world country horde Debt like crazy it looks all good for the time being, but the debt has to be paid and we will soon see the devastating effect of delaying that payment through un-natural interest rate drops from the central banks so they can print money to fuel an economy that won't drive enough to fix the debt problem.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/global-debt-hits-a-new-record-at-247-trillion.html

World Debt is currently 318% higher then global GDP, this Keynes model has been the culprit, A Confidence based monetary system can only go soo far.

 

[McLaren]

I will gladly admit that I would be wrong, if you can provide sources that prove me wrong. As far as I can tell, Warren DID list herself as a minority professor at both Penn State AND Harvard, that fact you are not disputing in great detail. Plus there is a reverse racism lawsuit going on at Harvard, so I wouldn't trust anything that they are selling right now.

I haven't seen much evidence she ticked it for political gain, but there are articles out there that Harvard did use her to prop their diversity status in the faculty. Hard to pin that on her, though; seems like a decision from their upper staff that backfired on them a bit.

Well the Migrant Caravan has gotten into Mexico now, only the US border remains.

Apparently, the Mexican Govt. has issued a statement that none of the migrants will be allowed into Mexico without documentation. I have seen some reports talking about riot police meeting the caravan.
http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-migrant-caravan-20181017-story.html

In a series of sternly worded statements, the government has made it clear in recent days that it will not allow any of the estimated 2,000 immigrants traveling with the caravan to cross into Mexican territory without proper documentation.

Anybody entering the country “in an irregular manner” will be apprehended and, if appropriate, returned to their home country, one statement said. Immigrants fleeing violence or other threats who want refugee status to stay in Mexico must request it at the border and wait up to 45 days in immigration detention, the government said.

 

[mustafur]

I haven't seen much evidence she ticked it for political gain, but there are articles out there that Harvard did use her to prop their diversity status in the faculty. Hard to pin that on her, though; seems like a decision from their upper staff that backfired on them a bit.

Apparently, the Mexican Govt. has issued a statement that none of the migrants will be allowed into Mexico without documentation. I have seen some reports talking about riot police meeting the caravan.
http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-mexico-migrant-caravan-20181017-story.html

Old news, there are some waiting to get into Mexico legally, most have just crossed into Mexico illegally.

Better Video:

 

[Chrunch Houston]

So some person in Central America yelled, "Enough is enough, I am walking to America! Who is with me!?!" And people started to follow, and before you know it there were thousands headed to America.

Yeah, that doesn't sound right.

Who organized this caravan? Who is paying to feed and provide water?

This is going to look really bad if they come up against the US military. But I am sure that was the leftists' plan, all along. After all, the optics of, enforcing existing law, and separating families, worked pretty well for them.

The sad part is that the leftists don't care how many people they use. I watch those videos and want to cry for those poor families.

The leftists lied to all those people.

 

[mustafur]

Given how close the mid terms are, the way US deals with this Caravan will surely be a key issue going into the vote.

I Suspect this will help the Republicans more then the Democrats.

 

[Dotini]

The myth is there is widespread voterfraud. This has been debunked multiple times by both the democratic and the republican party.

As an aside, i.e.,regardless of the truth of this or any other accusations of widespread voter fraud, in my humble opinion it is absolutely vital that voters in a democracy believe the vote is honest. This is because, at the end of the day, our government exists by the consent of the people. Nobody Republican or Democrat wants to imagine public calls for something else to replace an illegitimate government. So it is to be expected that government, press and establishment would join in suppressing anything (real or not) that would question or disrupt the legitimacy of our regime.

 

[Rage Racer]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45930206

Wouldn’t it be much better to find proof first? If the USA pulls out. It will give Russia free reign to actually do manufacture these weapons! Or is that exactly what Trump and Putin planned in their closed room discussions?

Since when America needs proof to do something?

By the way, some experts say that this treaty signed by Reagan and Gorbachov was unbeneficial for USSR/Russia. So agent Trump, perhaps, has just deserved a medal from Kremlin. Russia can now re-arm the Soviet mid- and close-range missiles and work on the new ones. There are already such missiles with conventional warheads (so they don't violate the treaty) that can be just converted to nuclear.

After all, we'll go to heaven as martyrs, and they'll just drop dead, and won't even have time to repent (Vladimir Putin, October 2018).

 

[Danoff]

You mean in some imaginary libertarian scenario? In the real world, federal revenue rose only slightly, by $14 billion. which might have been expected in during an economic expansion.

...which might have been expected during a tax cut.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Saw this on the dark web yesterday and now it's made it's way to Youtube. Purported to be someone handing out cash to the mob headed for the border from Honduras. See the man in the white t-shirt? Look on his right hip as well:

 

[Danoff]

Saw this on the dark web yesterday and now it's made it's way to Youtube. Purported to be someone handing out cash to the mob headed for the border from Honduras. See the man in the white t-shirt? Look on his right hip as well:

The next level of course would be to randomly show up at a protest that you want to imply is fake and start handing out cash in front of a camera. Then post it online and claim that the protest wasn't real.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The next level of course would be to randomly show up at a protest that you want to imply is fake and start handing out cash in front of a camera. Then post it online and claim that the protest wasn't real.

Anything is possible. I half expected him to have an NPC meme mask on.

 

[TexRex]

Saw this on the dark web yesterday and now it's made it's way to Youtube. Purported to be someone handing out cash to the mob headed for the border from Honduras. See the man in the white t-shirt? Look on his right hip as well:

*gasp*

A gun!!!

What's that supposed to be indicative of? I mean...other than a gun.

I was squinting so hard to see what it was that I almost didn't notice the Patreon handle at the bottom of the screen; "I'm showing prospective illegal aliens being handed cash, with hopes of being handed cash."

 

[Johnnypenso]

Under Honduran Law Decree Number 69-2007, signed into law on June 29, 2007, private citizens were restricted to register only up to five firearms and are no longer permitted to carry their firearms in public unless they are being transported and in the proper manner.[23]

 

[TexRex]

Where was that video captured? Did I miss the part where someone established that the individual carrying the firearm didn't have a permit to do so in that location? That he has the money to hand it out so frivolously may well be indicative of him having qualified for a permit on the basis of wealth as indicated.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Under Honduran Law Decree Number 69-2007, signed into law on June 29, 2007, private citizens were restricted to register only up to five firearms and are no longer permitted to carry their firearms in public unless they are being transported and in the proper manner.[23]

So? Most shops/restaurants have guards on duty carrying permitted firearms. Do we know that he isn't legally permitted to carry that weapon? Besides that... what the law says and what the police enforce are often very different things. Weapons are normally carried quite openly in the Honduran countryside and cities are often little different.

It seems like we're supposed to take an instant assumption away with us - could you just tell us what it is?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm just offering it up for your viewing pleasure. I make no claims as to it's authenticity. It could mean anything, even a vast right wing conspiracy. I'm sure the truth will come out soon enough. All I know for sure is it's the best looking, most well fed and healthy looking asylum seekers I've ever seen.

 

[TexRex]

Oh, wow, that was quite an edit from Mexican law to Honduran law...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Oh, wow, that was quite an edit from Mexican law to Honduran law...

I have no problem self correcting my errors after making faulty assumptions. It's a laudable attribute in fact. Accuracy is important.

 

[Danoff]

Oh, wow, that was quite an edit from Mexican law to Honduran law...

I noticed it as well and thought that it was a good catch on what appeared to be an honest mistake. I hadn't noticed the first time through that it should have be Honduras.

 

[TexRex]

I have no problem self correcting my errors after making faulty assumptions. Accuracy is important.

Pity you can't be bothered to indicate having done so, particularly when the comments you've made and information you've provided are those to which someone is likely to respond. Has the video been established as having been captured in Honduras rather than Mexico? Why not leave what's indicated by Mexican law and simply add information regarding Honduran law? Is there something wrong with informing people? Or did what's permissible by Mexican law present unsure footing for assertions being made?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I noticed it as well and thought that it was a good catch on what appeared to be an honest mistake. I hadn't noticed the first time through that it should have be Honduras.

Exactly. I thought about it after I hit send and realized that although they made it across the Mexican border already, they may not have when that video was taken. So I poked around a bit and found it's purported to be from Honduras and made the proper edit. I saw that no one had quoted me so didn't feel the need to leave up the faulty information that had only been up for a few minutes anyway.

 

[TexRex]

Exactly. I thought about it after I hit send and realized that although they made it across the Mexican border already, they may not have when that video was taken. So I poked around a bit and found it's purported to be from Honduras and made the proper edit. I saw that no one had quoted me so didn't feel the need to leave up the faulty information that had only been up for a few minutes anyway.

Speaking of quoting, why not quote me? I asked a question that you were then compelled to answer. I appreciate you going to the trouble to do so, but quoting me affords me the opportunity to see the response sooner by virtue of having my alert preferences set to receive alerts when I'm quoted, and then having been quoted, I can be compelled to reciprocate. If you can't be bothered to quote me, why should I?

Still, is more information really that bad? They were in Honduras; they are in Mexico. In the event that the video is established as having been captured in Honduras, well, it's best to answer the question accordingly, and in the event that the video is established as having been captured in Mexico, you've already answered it with the applicable information.

 

[Danoff]

Speaking of quoting, why not quote me? I asked a question that you were then compelled to answer. I appreciate you going to the trouble to do so, but quoting me affords me the opportunity to see the response sooner by virtue of having my alert preferences set to receive alerts when I'm quoted, and then having been quoted, I can be compelled to reciprocate. If you can't be bothered to quote me, why should I?

...for the same reasons you just said he should quote you. You did ask a direct question of him just a moment ago without quoting him. Right here:

Where was that video captured? Did I miss the part where someone established that the individual carrying the firearm didn't have a permit to do so in that location? That he has the money to hand it out so frivolously may well be indicative of him having qualified for a permit on the basis of wealth as indicated.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Speaking of quoting, why not quote me? I asked a question that you were then compelled to answer. I appreciate you going to the trouble to do so, but quoting me affords me the opportunity to see the response sooner by virtue of having my alert preferences set to receive alerts when I'm quoted, and then having been quoted, I can be compelled to reciprocate. If you can't be bothered to quote me, why should I?

Still, is more information really that bad? They were in Honduras; they are in Mexico. In the event that the video is established as having been captured in Honduras, well, it's best to answer the question accordingly, and in the event that the video is established as having been captured in Mexico, you've already answered it with the applicable information.

I really have no idea what you're on about here. Seems like you're making Mt. Everest out of a molehill.

 

[TexRex]

...for the same reasons you just said he should quote you.

If you can't be bothered to quote me, why should I?

Reciprocity.

I really have no idea what you're on about here. Seems like you're making Mt. Everest out of a molehill.

Or did what's permissible by Mexican law present unsure footing for assertions being made?

It looks an awful lot like cherrypicking to me, and since you've accused others of engaging in the convention, I can only imagine you're willing to engage in it as well given that you've demonstrated a propensity to call others out on tactics that you yourself employ with those very same parties (kind of understandable) but others as well (not so understandable).

Does me harping on this come off as petty? No doubt...but the proverbial camel's back broke many straws ago.