America - The Official Thread

[PocketZeven]

I'm not understanding why it has to be all or nothing here. Why can't the serve time in prison and serve a different amount of time for access to guns, being free of ankle bracelets, and being able to vote? If we're telling them they can't vote, or buy a gun, we're telling them they haven't (and maybe never will) finished serving their time in that respect.

I don't like the "we have to use jail for everything" approach.

I am all for appropiate punishing for breaking the law. But when you serving your punishment you are not part of society. My point was it isnt fair for people who have comitted a crime through a mistake or lapse in judgment have their punishment follow them their whole lives. But also when they receive punishment it should be proportional to their crime. I didnt mean to seem like I was advocating for all or nothing. After sentence server they should have the same rights as others, with obvious exceptions. People that have mental issues etc. need perhaps additional observation or perhaps care to come back to society.

 

[Danoff]

But when you serving your punishment you are not part of society.

Well that's at odds with how we do things now in the US (ankle bracelets, restraining orders, firearm ownership, travel, parental custody, and employment in certain areas). But I think it's also at odds with what makes sense. When someone violates the rights of others, and forfeits theirs, we (the public via the judiciary) may be able to look at the situation and effectively say: this person does not need to be incarcerated any longer, or at all, but we cannot trust them to behave around certain people, or in certain capacities. This is flexibility that allows us to make sensible decisions and enable people to have a better chance at reform and to lead productive lives.

Without this flexibility you end up incarcerating more, unnecessarily, and that doesn't seem beneficial.

 

[ryzno]

Edit: However, I'm opposed to a publicly viewable sex offender registry, as that's a great opportunity for abuse by the public. That information should be restricted to law enforcement and the criminal justice system. And the convicted, of course.

Do you think they should have to notify the neighborhood they are moving into?

 

[Dotini]

In my city there are many thousands of homeless addicts who live on sidewalks and dispose of needles and their feces on public and private property alike. Because of social engineering and virtue signaling, our elected officials hold these offenders harmless from arrest and actually subsidize them with some allocated lots, tents, supplies and useless counseling, while the residents and taxpayers are seriously angered and offended. If I were mayor, I would send them all one-way to American Samoa or the Solomon Islands to either dry out cold turkey or die in the process.

 

[UKMikey]

If I were mayor, I would send them all one-way to American Samoa or the Solomon Islands to either dry out cold turkey or die in the process.

Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor...

 

[TexRex]

If I were mayor...

I think we should have more assassinations and fewer wars.

 

[Dotini]

Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor...

Some are found dead every day, usually by overdose.

 

[UKMikey]

Some are found dead every day, usually by overdose.

Airfare saved, then.

Do you propose deporting all the homeless or just the ones which defecate on your lawn?

 

[Dotini]

Airfare saved, then.

Do you propose deporting all the homeless or just the ones which defecate on your lawn?

Not deporting, but removing to a safer place for all concerned.

 

[TenEightyOne]

If I were mayor, I would send them all one-way to American Samoa or the Solomon Islands to either dry out cold turkey or die in the process.

Not deporting, but removing to a safer place for all concerned.

Not something I expected from you, perhaps I'm misreading it... but there are dangerous precedents for that kind of thinking.

 

[Vegard]

Not deporting, but removing to a safer place for all concerned.

Oh, I know what to do; let's round them all up and send them to an enclosed camp where we can teach them about the value of labor.

Let's call it the "work sets you free" camp.

 

[Dotini]

Not something I expected from you, perhaps I'm misreading it... but there are dangerous precedents for that kind of thinking.

Homelessness, opioid addiction, waste needles and public defecation are a large, spreading and seemingly intractable problem here. The latest local ideas seem to involve centralizing this population into a place like a hangar or warehouse and not spreading their encampments, feces and needles freely on schoolyards, sidewalks and streets. We are very far from any kind of solution, and the citizens and politicians are at each other's throats. Seattle used to be one of the US's most livable cities, yet now we must sidestep needles, feces and near-lifeless human bodies in many neighborhoods where typical property taxes on million dollar homes run close to $10k/yr.

 

[Dennisch]

I agree with @Dotini here. A lot of the addicts are slowly killing themselves. Why not round them up and let them go cold turkey in a place without any available drugs?

It removes crime, poop on the streets and if possible, you bring back healthy people who can be part of society again, instead of being a disgusting nuisance in the cities.

 

[McLaren]

Going cold turkey isn’t going to save them; more likely, it’ll kill them. Your tolerance drops meaning a small hit is all it takes to relapse. Your body dehydrates. 45% of cold turkey withdrawal in heroin users die from suicide because of emotional distress.

If your goal is to wish for druggies to go somewhere they can’t find drugs, you send them to detox and get medical help.

 

[Dennisch]

45% is more than acceptable as they are already committing suicide but slower. Heroin users are most likely to die because of their addiction anyway, and most of them don't even manage to stay alive for 2 years or so.

 

[PocketZeven]

45% is more than acceptable as they are already committing suicide but slower. Heroin users are most likely to die because of their addiction anyway, and most of them don't even manage to stay alive for 2 years or so.

Are you saying putting all these addicts in a certain place and die? A big part of the problem is the opioid crisis. Big Pharma has already gotten away with a lot of immoral decisions, because they simply lobbied to accuse the users for misuse and not acknowledging that they have been pushing sales and at the same time failing to inform correctly how highly addictive opioids are.

 

[McLaren]

45% is more than acceptable as they are already committing suicide but slower. Heroin users are most likely to die because of their addiction anyway, and most of them don't even manage to stay alive for 2 years or so.

Bro, what?

If a 100 heroin users try to stop cold turkey and 45% die from suicide because of the emotional distress, that’s acceptable? That’s 100 people still trying to quit at the end of the day with the other 55% struggling not to relapse.

 

[Dennisch]

90% of heroin users will relapse. Most of them die within 2 years of heroin addiction.

Give them one chance to kick the habit, on the island mentioned earlier. Keep them there as long as possible, and if they relapse after return, that's it. No help for you anymore.

People don't seem te realise how much of a pest heroin actually is for the human brain and body. It's pretty much a roach motel.

 

[Tornado]

Realistically, though, huge polluting countries like China won't even take America's plastic bags anymore. What one is going to take America's homeless people addicted to heroin?



Mexico?

 

[PocketZeven]

Realistically, though, huge polluting countries like China won't even take America's plastic bags anymore. What one is going to take America's homeless people addicted to heroin?



Mexico?

Alaska

 

[TexRex]

Alaska

 

[Northstar]

Alaska

That's probably not a good idea.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Seattle is part of the 15th largest metropolitan areas in the country. But it is ranked number three in the number of homeless only after New York and LA.

I watched this a week or so ago. Produced by a local Seattle TV station, it does a good job of explaining how stupid liberal policy is hurting the once beautiful Emerald City.

 

[McLaren]

90% of heroin users will relapse. Most of them die within 2 years of heroin addiction.

Give them one chance to kick the habit, on the island mentioned earlier. Keep them there as long as possible, and if they relapse after return, that's it. No help for you anymore.

People don't seem te realise how much of a pest heroin actually is for the human brain and body. It's pretty much a roach motel.

No more help? You’re not helping them in the first place. You’re basically sentencing them to death.

 

[Dennisch]

No more help? You’re not helping them in the first place. You’re basically sentencing them to death.

No, they really did that themselves when they decided to use heroin for the first time.

 

[Dotini]

Realistically, though, huge polluting countries like China won't even take America's plastic bags anymore. What one is going to take America's homeless people addicted to heroin?

We send captured terrorists to Gitmo. Homeless addicts I, humorously suggested, should be sent to distant US possessions in the South Pacific. There they could rehabilitate or not, in safety to themselves and away from shoplifting and stealing Seattle up to the 2nd or 3rd highest property crime rate in the nation.

 

[PocketZeven]

No, they really did that themselves when they decided to use heroin for the first time.

So big pharma that is responsible for a lot of addicts are scottfree?

 

[TexRex]

What's wrong with cutting off addicts' supply of the [for the most part] illegal substances to which they're addicted?

Customs and Border Protection reported for the first 11 months of the 2018 fiscal year that 90% of heroin, 88% of cocaine and 87% of methamphetamine seizures took place at legal ports of entry rather than unprotected areas of the southern border, and while that accounts for articles actually seized, border experts say total smuggling efforts are likely consistent with those percentages...which makes sense, because you focus your energy where you've found it to be successful.

Marijuana seizures are significantly higher having passed through illegal areas, but it's much more difficult to sneak meaningful quantities through legal ports as demand for it is reduced with legalization happening across the country. Presumably, illegal marijuana trafficking is actually a bigger issue across state borders now.

One has to wonder why so many eggs were put into the "steal money to pay for a wall a fence steel slats" basket after holding government employees ransom for the cause failed.

Hey, maybe a wall a fence steel slats could be used to separate the homeless addicts from the rest of the population; it'd be just as meaningful in addressing that issue as it is in addressing illegal immigration.

humorously suggested

Nope.

 

[McLaren]

No, they really did that themselves when they decided to use heroin for the first time.

But when they’re trying to correct that, they need help. Cold turkey doesn’t help them, it only limits the length of their life more so, by upping the odds of death by suicide than death by OD.

If the goal is to help addicts, you detox them. Shipping them off to an island isn’t help, it’s dumping the problem elsewhere and hoping it corrects itself while also not caring if it offs itself as well. It’s a win-win for the origin location physically, but not morally.

 

[Dennisch]

Cold turkey doesn’t help them, it only limits the length of their life more so

A seasoned junkie who has stopped with heroin thanks to detox will also OD if he uses as much as his last hit before detox, your tolerance will be the same as going cold turkey.
Most people, even those who are somewhat of a living skeleton will survive going cold turkey, as long as they eat and drink something. The emotional instability can be solved by having people watching the junkie.