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America - The Official Thread
- Thread starter ///M-Spec
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- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
Yesterday you posted a vague statement.
I asked you to clarify that vague statement because context is important and it was lacking in your post. You refused to clarify your own statement. I found your behavior rather odd, and asked why you were being coy with me, and today you post this:
Asking someone to clarify their own post isn't baiting. You do realize how ridiculous that looks right?
By the way thanks for playing the holier than thou card there, gave me a good laugh.
I asked you to clarify that vague statement because context is important and it was lacking in your post. You refused to clarify your own statement. I found your behavior rather odd, and asked why you were being coy with me, and today you post this:
Asking someone to clarify their own post isn't baiting. You do realize how ridiculous that looks right?
By the way thanks for playing the holier than thou card there, gave me a good laugh.
- 2,620
- Lincoln, NE
- huskeR_32
What was vague about it?
What context was missing?
Where did this happen?
I didn't say it was. Calling my behavior "coy," though, seems to suggest you think I'm dodging something. As I've now said the same thing three times, I don't know what it is I'm being coy about.
It's fair game to point out that you're expecting people to read your posts here with a flexibility that you're not extending to Rep. Omar's tweets.
- 1,971
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Ironically, despite the hostility between the two nations, I don't believe Iranians face too much hate, as individuals, in the USA. I think it's mostly because they more or less blend in, and people that are stupid enough to be racist, are too stupid to recognize an Iranian when they see one. Also they are generally less of a target because they are overwhelmingly in the US legally, the ones that are here are far from vocal supporters of the Iranian regime, and they are one of the more successful/wealthy immigrant groups.
Rouhani and Zarif are smart men. I think they will hold on and not try to escalate things too much before the next US presidential election. A democrat in the White House would surely re-enter the nuclear deal (at least in their minds, it might not be that easy, IMO). The Ayatollah isn't very smart, but he does have a strong sense of self preservation, so I think he will do the same. The big wild card on the Iranian side is the IGRC and the proxy groups. I believe that the proxy groups have complete loyalty to Iran and so will not go rouge, but there is always the possibility. I really hope that cooler heads prevail on the American side (somehow, the cooler head is Trump in this situation) and doesn't start a completely needless war.
Rouhani and Zarif are smart men. I think they will hold on and not try to escalate things too much before the next US presidential election. A democrat in the White House would surely re-enter the nuclear deal (at least in their minds, it might not be that easy, IMO). The Ayatollah isn't very smart, but he does have a strong sense of self preservation, so I think he will do the same. The big wild card on the Iranian side is the IGRC and the proxy groups. I believe that the proxy groups have complete loyalty to Iran and so will not go rouge, but there is always the possibility. I really hope that cooler heads prevail on the American side (somehow, the cooler head is Trump in this situation) and doesn't start a completely needless war.
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- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
Ottawa County, OK
Major flooding is occurring and Major flooding is forecast ... At 24.0 feet, widespread and severe flooding ... This is an extremely dangerous and life threatening situation ...
Get to high ground if you are in the area, this looks really bad, and more is on the way.
Major flooding is occurring and Major flooding is forecast ... At 24.0 feet, widespread and severe flooding ... This is an extremely dangerous and life threatening situation ...
Get to high ground if you are in the area, this looks really bad, and more is on the way.
- 2,620
- Lincoln, NE
- huskeR_32
First group: folks who typically say that people are "snowflakes," that we as a culture are too quick to be offended, that the "PC" word police is always nitpicking everything.
Second group: folks who are very offended about Rep. Omar's tweets, who are insisting that there's anti-semitism behind her criticism of lobbyists and the state of Israel.
In a Venn diagram, there's a lot of overlap between those two groups. I've seen it among acquaintances, among people on the internet, and especially among members of the media. You'd think people who decry snowflakes wouldn't turn around and be snowflakes. You'd think people who whine about the word police wouldn't be so quick to become badge-holding members of the word police.
I don't care what you call them. Call them groups A and B. Call them the manifestations of the two sides of Tucker Carlson's personality. Call them the Jets and the Sharks. Whatever.
I never refused to answer anything, and I'd ask again that you either provide evidence of me doing so, or stop claiming that I did. Every time you asked, I repeated myself, and I simply don't understand what part of it isn't clear. I've asked you to specifically identify which parts of it are "vague," so that I could target my clarification, but you haven't done so. As such, I'm not sure what else to do other than keep repeating myself. Which I'm sure is getting old for everybody else.
As I already said, and do try and hear it this time, I didn't make the baiting comment in response to you asking for clarification. It was in response to you declaring that I was being "coy." I don't any reason to say that somebody is leaving something unsaid other than trying to get them to say whatever it is. In other words, baiting.
- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
Ok that is somewhat clearer, but still vague. For the record I know plenty of Democrats that would fit that description. I think you are over-generalizing here.
Which is mostly all Democrats.
I specifically asked you yesterday "which groups". How is that not clear enough? That was crystal clear, it doesn't get any clearer than that.
Oh, I heard you just fine the first time, I heard you not answering a basic question, "which groups". Which is why I keep having to repeat myself. Where is that pulling teeth IMG. And I still haven't received a clear, satisfactory answer, just more vague over-generalizations.
- 7,689
- Michigan
- Rallywgn81
Here I think this is the one you want...
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- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
To be honest, despite the fact that Iran keeps preaching "death to America/Israel", I have no issue with Iranians or Persians because most of them are not radicals. I DO have issues with the Ayatollah as he is definitely an extremist.
- 2,620
- Lincoln, NE
- huskeR_32
So despite me not taking your bait, you're going to treat me like I did? I didn't say it was either party, so how did I over-generalize?
Yeah, I don't think that's true at all. You've seized upon a few members of Congress as if it represents all of America. Keep in mind that those people are probably in bed with the same lobbyists that Omar was criticizing in the first place, so of course they're going to come out against it.
I'd say a better reflection of which side of the country is up in arms about this, since it seems you want this to be framed as one side or the other, would be to take a look at media coverage. Fox lost their minds about it for days on end.
I answered it several times. I just declined to put a party label on it, which is clearly the discussion you wanted to have.
You still haven't specified which part of my answer is unclear, so I'm not sure how you'd expect things to have gotten any clearer for you.
Nope, you don't, because I'm done with this asinine circle you're running around in.
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- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
ah the bait thing again, good grief. You cited a mysterious broad swath of people as being this or that without supporting it, or backing it up with evidence to support that claim, that is how you over-generalized.
A few? Try the entire Democratic House Majority who represents half of the US. And "probably "? I mean what is that? You just made an accusation with supporting evidence to back it up
Yet you are the one making comments about snowflakes. I didn't have to frame it about anything, it was already an internal problem within the democratic party
What you did is make vague partisan statements without citing evidence to back I up.
yes I have, many times.
The circle which you created for yourself.
- 13,909
- Adelaide
- Neomone
To be fair, at this point America might as well be preaching "death to Iran". They're smart enough to not use those exact words, but that's pretty clearly the intent of their actions and policies.
This seems like just another attempt by the US to create a vassal state in the Middle East that has come back to bite them in the arse.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
All this does is highlight that the US isn't the good guy here.
None of this would of happened if the US didn't pull the agreement that Iran was already following.
Iran has seen what happens to countries that pull their nuclear ambitions(Libya anyone remember that) at this rate the US has forced their hand into making nukes to deter an invasion.
None of this would of happened if the US didn't pull the agreement that Iran was already following.
Iran has seen what happens to countries that pull their nuclear ambitions(Libya anyone remember that) at this rate the US has forced their hand into making nukes to deter an invasion.
VolkswagenX
(Banned)
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- mustafur
That isn't what I was surprised about, the calling out of the MIC was.
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- Johnnypenso
That doesn't answer my question. The question was, where is the link between the Trump campaign and Russian meddling? From reading the posts following this response I don't think you have an answer though.
- 30,006
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- TexRex72
I've pored over the quote within the post quoted above and for the life of me I can't find any implied connection between the Trump campaign and the Russian meddling alluded to in Mueller's findings.
I've also looked into "the posts following this response" and the closest thing I can find is...
...and...
...neither of which strike me as the individual quoted making such an accusation or implication--founded or otherwise--to justify continued prodding for evidence of a connection as in the post quoted here:
And given the absence of such an accusation or implication, I don't think the condescending final sentence is justified either.
- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
A Hard Rains Gonna Fall
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...fall_on_obamas_bad_cops_and_spies_140429.html
My popcorn is ready.
Interesting choice for a title given the Dylan song by the same name.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...fall_on_obamas_bad_cops_and_spies_140429.html
My popcorn is ready.
Interesting choice for a title given the Dylan song by the same name.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
Total Saudi Puppet, Trump puts on a nice act in front of the cameras, his actions suggest something different.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...orce-saudi-arms-deal-sparks-anger-in-congress
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...orce-saudi-arms-deal-sparks-anger-in-congress
Joey D
Premium
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- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
Well, that points even more to a war with Iran. Trump wants to use Saudi Arabia or rather continuing using them, as a staging point for war. And while that is concerning, the fact that Trump is going above Congress is even more so. Our checks and balances system is deteriorating and that's not a good thing.
- 5,051
- Netherlands
He has criticised trump for not being anti-immigration and racist enough.
I answered that already earlier by referring and quoting the mueller report. Mueller did not find evidence of conspiracy by Trump to coordinate russias attempt to meddle with the 2016 election. However he did found the Trump campaign knew about, found it beneficial and made efforts to benefit them more (the infamous Trump tower meeting, sharing poll, calling for hillary hack data etc.). Multiple people within Trumps team had relations with Russia and lied to congress about those relations. That is all in the report. You dont need to read the whole thing. At least read the summary.
If it were the Democrats or republicans is kind of irrelevant to my message. I was trying to emphasize how there should be more focus on those russian efforts to influence the 2016 election. That is in violation of US federal law.
I did not accuse Trump of colludion in this forum. Why do you suggest that? My opinion has always been that Trump is an immoral, selfish narcissist. I do not support impeachment (Pence is not an improvement), but favor him being voted out in 2020. The reason being that I really want Trump to be jailed. He has scammed, cheated and lied his whole career and always got away with it. It is time he is hold accountable for his actions.
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Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
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- CR80_Shifty
The fact is this has been happening for many decades, and is in no way a new thing.
Okay, but this is not new or unique. All great nations have always tried to influence other nation's elections. Records are kept. The US has done it more than any other nation. But that's okay because might makes right and the ends justify the means? Or because our ideology and motives make us above the law? If every last letter of every law was 100% enforced, most of the world would be in jail.
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- Netherlands
That is kinda of a whataboutism reaction. What do other instances have to do with the russian interference or the current eroding of checs and balancing? If the US broke the law in other countries, they should be indicted, but why is that relevant to this instance? There might be hypocracy, but that doesnt mean this should be downplayed, ignored or even justified? Trump defying congress, might not be new, but is that an argument for justification?
The Mueller report details the efforts made. Have you read the report on the russian efforts? He even states the laws that were broken. There is evidence that the current President might not have won the election without outside help. That is a serious crime against democracy for the american people.
Dotini
(Banned)
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- CR80_Shifty
"Of all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these,'It might have been'."
- John Greenleaf Whittier
"The happiest words are, 'I told you so'."
- Gore Vidal
“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”
- Omar Kayyam
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- 5,051
- Netherlands
If it did or did not ultimately helped Trump's election is impossible to prove and therefore not the main issue. The issue is Russians misleading the public. Which isnt uncommon, but Mueller reports the coordinated effort and not just any hacking group but a russian authority approved company called the Internet Research Agency (IRA). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency
"The likely financier of the so-called Internet Research Agency of professional trolls located in Saint Petersburg is a close Putin ally with ties to Russian intelligence,"
The US Grand Jury indicted 13 Russian nationals and 3 Russian entities, including the Internet Research Agency, on charges of violating criminal laws with the intent to interfere "with U.S. elections and political processes
From the wikipage and mueller report:
Russian interference was partly done through the Internet Research Agency (IRA), waging "a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary. " The IRA also sought to "provoke and amplify political and social discord in the United States".
The IRA posed as Americans, hiding their Russian background, while asking Trump campaign members for campaign buttons, flyers, and posters for the rallies.The Mueller Report detailed that the IRA spent $100,000 for over 3,500 facebook ads, which included anti-Clinton and pro-Trump advertisements". On multiple occasions, members and surrogates of the Trump Campaign promoted – typically by linking, retweeting, or similar methods of reposting – pro-Trump or anti-Clinton content published by the IRA through IRA-controlled social media accounts. Additionally, in a few instances, IRA employees represented themselves as U.S. persons to communicate with members of the Trump Campaign in an effort to seek assistance and coordination on IRA-organized political rallies inside the United States", the report states"
VolkswagenX
(Banned)
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When did he criticise Trump for not being racist enough?
