America - The Official Thread

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What ever happened to the Hillary Clinton collapsing story? We were all led to believe that she was dying, or had some sort of medical problems that should leave her unfit to serve office - that she was being carried into cars and propped up by her aides. I just did a search for it and it turned up zilch. Was that manufactured? I feel like we could have the real story at this point.
 
What ever happened to the Hillary Clinton collapsing story? We were all led to believe that she was dying, or had some sort of medical problems that should leave her unfit to serve office - that she was being carried into cars and propped up by her aides. I just did a search for it and it turned up zilch. Was that manufactured? I feel like we could have the real story at this point.
It was a conspiracy which originated from the Alt-Right from the beginning. They tried to say that Hillary’s “odd laughter” and “seizures” which weren’t even seizures, are proof that she is seriously unwell. Couldn’t be more obvious that it was manufactured. All they did was exaggerate otherwise normal behavior of a 70 year old woman.
 
What ever happened to the Hillary Clinton collapsing story? We were all led to believe that she was dying, or had some sort of medical problems that should leave her unfit to serve office - that she was being carried into cars and propped up by her aides. I just did a search for it and it turned up zilch. Was that manufactured? I feel like we could have the real story at this point.

They passed that ball to Angela Merkel. She has been seen shaking like Michael J Fox 2 times now.
 
What ever happened to the Hillary Clinton collapsing story? We were all led to believe that she was dying, or had some sort of medical problems that should leave her unfit to serve office - that she was being carried into cars and propped up by her aides. I just did a search for it and it turned up zilch. Was that manufactured? I feel like we could have the real story at this point.
I remember this from 2016:



Edit: Ah, we discussed it in the now-closed US election thread - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-elections-2016.326052/page-188#post-11535776
 
It was a conspiracy which originated from the Alt-Right from the beginning. They tried to say that Hillary’s “odd laughter” and “seizures” which weren’t even seizures, are proof that she is seriously unwell. Couldn’t be more obvious that it was manufactured. All they did was exaggerate otherwise normal behavior of a 70 year old woman.


I meant drummed up by conservative news and was actually nothing important.

They passed that ball to Angela Merkel. She has been seen shaking like Michael J Fox 2 times now.

I think that's what got me thinking about it this morning. Is this going to be another Hillary collapse that amounts to nothing?

I remember this from 2016:



Edit: Ah, we discussed it in the now-closed US election thread - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-elections-2016.326052/page-188#post-11535776


Yea, so what's the deal? I searched for it and all the discussion on it in the news is from 2016. It happened, and then everyone moved on and nothing came out of it. We never got the real story, or perhaps that means there wasn't one.
 
I meant drummed up by conservative news and was actually nothing important.

It was an ironic "what?!" :P

I notice Trump has been trying to create similar inferences about Creepy/Sleepy Joe.

We are, of course, still waiting for them to lock her up ... & Trump aficionados are also confidently awaiting the incarceration of Clapper, Comey & Brennan, just as soon as they have finished throwing each other under the bus. There's a whole conservative fantasy world out there that revolves around its own internally generated facts & opinions.
 
Given the steaming pile of nothing that the situation has turned out to be, the page linked to above has aged rather hilariously.

And that's without clicking the link in the red box that reveals the stilted blustering of Dotini.
 
Do you have a source for that?
Look up on YouTube “Paul Joseph Watson” and there’s a few videos about why he claims Hillary is on her last leg. Mind you, he’s a part of the Alt-Right and one of Alex Jones’ minions, also one of the most vocally Islamophobic conservatives at the moment.

This is his most popular video on this matter, which kickstarted the “Hillary Health Crisis”.

 
I can't help but hear the GPS voice directions: "Redistricting. Redistricting. Redistricting."
 
Given the steaming pile of nothing that the situation has turned out to be, the page linked to above has aged rather hilariously.

And that's without clicking the link in the red box that reveals the stilted blustering of Dotini.
The NY Times reported Mrs . Clinton suffered from pneumonia and an inner ear infection during 2016.

By Lawrence K. Altman, M.d.

  • Sept. 18, 2016
WASHINGTON — The disclosure last week that Hillary Clinton was being treated for pneumonia thrust the health of both of the major parties’ presidential candidates and their running mates to the center of the campaign, and led to the release of more detailed medical histories from the two candidates seeking what is widely regarded as the world’s most demanding job.

Mrs. Clinton, 68, the Democratic presidential nominee, who has had serious medical problems in recent years, released on Wednesday an update of a July 2015 letter from her doctorattesting to her overall good health and ability to serve a full four-year term as president. However, the doctor, Dr. Lisa Bardack of Mt. Kisco, N.Y., noted that Mrs. Clinton had developed two new medical conditions in 2016: a sinus and ear infection in the winter and pneumonia this month.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/19/us/politics/hillary-clinton-health.html
 
I can't help but hear the GPS voice directions: "Redistricting. Redistricting. Redistricting."

It's a tough problem for sure. But you can marginalize the voice of a population by carefully drawing districts - undermining their representation in government. And that's contrary to democracy and is not equal representation or equal application of law. It's hard to come up with an algorithm that's fair, but it's easy to come up with algorithms that are completely at odds with representative government.

I'm dissapointed with the supremes for refusing to do anything about that clear problem, since it's a clear failure. But apparently this is a problem the people will have to solve another way.
 
It's a tough problem for sure. But you can marginalize the voice of a population by carefully drawing districts - undermining their representation in government. And that's contrary to democracy and is not equal representation or equal application of law. It's hard to come up with an algorithm that's fair, but it's easy to come up with algorithms that are completely at odds with representative government.

I'm dissapointed with the supremes for refusing to do anything about that clear problem, since it's a clear failure. But apparently this is a problem the people will have to solve another way.
Oh I'm well aware of what it accomplishes. I was gerrymandered in ~2003 in a manner that I suppose benefitted me as a Democrat (both parties are guilty of it) but that offended and still offends me as an American. I don't approve of it just as I don't approve of the Electoral College.

[Edit] Look at this crock of crap:

North_Carolina_US_Congressional_District_12_%28since_2013%29.jpg


That's not a meandering river; that's a legislative district.

[Subsequent edit to replace the previous image with one of higher quality and that offers more information.]
 
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Oh I'm well aware of what it accomplishes. I was gerrymandered in ~2003 in a manner that I suppose benefitted me as a Democrat (both parties are guilty of it) but that offended and still offends me as an American. I don't approve of it just as I don't approve of the Electoral College.

[Edit] Look at this crock of crap:

North_Carolina_US_Congressional_District_12_%28since_2013%29.jpg


That's not a meandering river; that's a legislative district.

[Subsequent edit to replace the previous image with one of higher quality and that offers more information.]
That’s truly awful! Makes me proud to be a New Jerseyan. All of our districts are at least somewhat close to equal.
 
That’s truly awful! Makes me proud to be a New Jerseyan. All of our districts are at least somewhat close to equal.
The 8th would like to have a word with you.

625px-New_Jersey%27s_8th_congressional_district_%282013%29.svg.png


Looks like a danged chicken foot.

Edit: Upon closer inspection, it doesn't even appear to be the worst.
 
Those are both very common conditions and neither signify death or any major concern...
True, although I'm over 70 and have never suffered any of Mrs. Clinton's medical problems. In 2012 she was treated for blood clots in the brain after fainting and suffering a concussion. That said, my issue with her was not her health but her foreign policy of military intervention. As an antiwar libertarian, that's a big deal for me. This time around, I'm looking forward to Tulsi Gabbard carrying the antiwar theme in the Democratic Party. I wish her every success.


The 2011 Egyptian protests posed the most challenging foreign policy crisis for the administration yet.[358] Clinton's public response quickly evolved from an early assessment that the government of Hosni Mubarak was "stable", to a stance that there needed to be an "orderly transition [to] a democratic participatory government", to a condemnation of violence against the protesters.[359][360] Obama came to rely upon Clinton's advice, organization and personal connections in the behind-the-scenes response to developments.[358] As Arab Spring protests spread throughout the region, Clinton was at the forefront of a U.S. response that she recognized was sometimes contradictory, backing some regimes while supporting protesters against others.[361]


The London meeting to discuss NATO military intervention in Libya, March 29, 2011
As the Libyan Civil War took place, Clinton's shift in favor of military intervention aligned her with Ambassador to the UN Susan Rice and National Security Council figure Samantha Power and was a key turning point in overcoming internal administration opposition from Defense Secretary Gates, security advisor Thomas E. Donilon and counterterrorism advisor John Brennan in gaining the backing for and Arab and U.N. approval of, the 2011 military intervention in Libya.[361][362][363] Secretary Clinton testified to Congress that the administration did not need congressional authorization for its military intervention in Libya, despite objections from some members of both parties that the administration was violating the War Powers Resolution and the State Department's legal advisor argued the same when the Resolution's 60-day limit for unauthorized wars was passed (a view that prevailed in a legal debate within the Obama administration).[364] Clinton later used U.S. allies and what she called "convening power" to promote unity among the Libyan rebels as they eventually overthrew the Gaddafi regime.[362] The aftermath of the Libyan Civil War saw the country becoming a failed state,[365] and the wisdom of the intervention and interpretation of what happened afterward would become the subject of considerable debate.[366][367][368]
 
It’s not so bad. That’s pretty much the entirety of Hudson County, which has a similar shape.
Bit of a stretch. But even if I give you that, suppose we compare Middlesex and Monmouth counties to the 6th:

new-jersey-county-map.gif
375px-New_Jersey%27s_6th_congressional_district_%282013%29.svg.png


It's a joke. I could practically spit across part of it.
 
Bit of a stretch. But even if I give you that, suppose we compare Middlesex and Monmouth counties to the 6th:

new-jersey-county-map.gif
375px-New_Jersey%27s_6th_congressional_district_%282013%29.svg.png


It's a joke. I could practically spit across part of it.
Yea I’ll give you that one. The district that covers most of Monmouth County is NJ’s only Republican district. The towns in Monmouth County in the district you highlighted are the only towns in that county which lean left. Monmouth County is not like the rest of NJ from a geographical and political standpoint.
 
This is disappointing.

It's a tough problem for sure. But you can marginalize the voice of a population by carefully drawing districts - undermining their representation in government. And that's contrary to democracy and is not equal representation or equal application of law. It's hard to come up with an algorithm that's fair, but it's easy to come up with algorithms that are completely at odds with representative government.

I'm dissapointed with the supremes for refusing to do anything about that clear problem, since it's a clear failure. But apparently this is a problem the people will have to solve another way.

What impresses me about you Danoff, is that in the face of the depressingly predictable corruption of the US electoral system you remain unfailing optimistic! :)

The US system is so riddled with illogical, corrupt, outdated or just plain stupid inequities as to be a blot on the concept of rationality. It's true that systems in other countries are often similarly irrational & corrupt ... but they don't generally make the exalted claims that Americans make about their system.

Senate representation is undemocratic & illogical, the electoral college is undemocratic & illogical - extreme gerrymandering carried out by the party in power at the state level, is undemocratic & illogical. Changing these things, while theoretically possible under the Constitution, is extremely unlikely ever to happen. Those with a vested interest in maintaining the unfair status quo will never surrender their constitutional advantages ... & after all, the United States isn't a democracy, it's a "Constitutional Republic", which apparently makes it OK to ignore any glaringly obvious flaws.
 
Yea I’ll give you that one. The district that covers most of Monmouth County is NJ’s only Republican district. The towns in Monmouth County in the district you highlighted are the only towns in that county which lean left. Monmouth County is not like the rest of NJ from a geographical and political standpoint.
Gerrymandering is a CANCER. It is not in service to the American people. And make no mistake, it's not unique to any particular part of the country or any political party, no matter how much you or anybody else wants it to be.
 
Gerrymandering is a CANCER. It is not in service to the American people. And make no mistake, it's not unique to any particular part of the country or any political party, no matter how much you or anybody else wants it to be.
Oh I totally agree. But in the case of NJ, to be totally honest, people generally approve of our gerrymandered districts. Why? NJ is a state that is largely left-leaning with Conservatives being a minority. 11/12 of our districts are blue. Though it is still gerrymandering, most of our state is happy with our districts at least.
 
The US system is...a blot on the concept of rationality...after all, the United States isn't a democracy, it's a "Constitutional Republic",

The US was founded during the Age of Reason, or Age of Enlightenment, which was an intellectual and philosophical movement that dominated the world of ideas in Europe during the 18th century. Our founders were dubious that democracy could succeed, and viewed it strictly as an experiment, which is still a work in progress as is our nation. Now we are enduring the postmodern era, democracy is weaponized under identity politics and is become more dangerous an experiment than ever before. :D
 
Oh I totally agree. But in the case of NJ, to be totally honest, people generally approve of our gerrymandered districts. Why? NJ is a state that is largely left-leaning with Conservatives being a minority. 11/12 of our districts are blue. Though it is still gerrymandering, most of our state is happy with our districts at least.
That doesn't make it right.

Here, watch CBS News contributor Mo Rocca run between the 4th, 5th and 7th Congressional districts of Illinois:

Gerrymandering A threat to democracy_1.gif


Edit: This would take some figuring, but I wonder how many households in this country aren't in the same Congressional district as their nearest police precinct or firehouse.
 
That said, my issue with her was not her health but her foreign policy of military intervention. As an antiwar libertarian, that's a big deal for me.

Ironically, it turned out that neither candidate was particularly anti-war, as Trump showed with "fire and fury" and "my red button is a lot bigger than KJI's and it actually works". Of course, it was much more difficult to tell that before the election because Trump had no political background to reference like Clinton did. Clinton had decades of political performance to help people judge whether they approved of her judgement and actions, with Trump you were forced to believe what he said in campaign speeches.

I'm pretty sure that whoever you choose, the fact will remain that the US has a massive military, with a very large amount of very powerful people who are very invested in making sure that it stays that way. As the US doesn't really need much in the way of local military defence and is unlikely to in the near future, that means that it's pretty likely that there will be more foreign defensive actions. Or as the rest of us call them, wars.

One person at the top is going to have a very hard time changing an entire culture, especially when they need to use that culture to get elected in the first place.
 
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