America - The Official Thread

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What does Hillary have to do with it? He was talking about Trump.
In a two party system you have two legitimate candidates that may win the election, if you did not vote for Trump you would have voted for the Hildabeast is where she has something to do with it. Voting independent in the real world and the election results you may as well not even vote as your vote will not influence the actual elections results.
 
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Portrait found at Epstein's place.

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I want you: The original painting is by Australian-American artist Petrina Ryan-Kleid, although it is unclear if Epstein had bought the canvas or had a print mounted.
 
I get what you are trying to say but you need to differentiate free-market capitalism and socialist government programs, the two don't go hand in hand and are very different things. Trump has largely deregulated Federal restrictions which would be contrary to your point in labeling him an economic communist.

That's why Trump is a Commie instead of a socialist, while the GOP itself is socialist. One of the pillars of Communism, and I'm talking Hammer and Sickle Soviet Red brand of Communism, is that the government controls the means of production, which is to say the economy. Trump has not only violated the Constitution by going over Congress' head to enact tariffs, he's trying to force companies to build stuff in the US, which is exactly what a Communist leader would do. The GOP is just socialist because they think old people deserve free money and healthcare.

I surely do not think you would allow such a stupid idea of I would support a traitor such as Hillary Clinton to even cross your mind?
Let what is posted below say more than needs to be said!
View attachment 843143

I didn't say you had to vote for Hillary. She is/was equally as useless as Trump and probably on par with him in terms of being a complete asshat. But since they were friends I'm not really surprised they're two peas in a pod.

In a two party system you have two legitimate candidates that may win the election, if you did not vote for Trump you would have voted for the Hildabeast is where she has something to do with it. Voting independent in the real world and the election results you may as well not even vote as your vote will not influence the actual elections results.

Oh...

Well if you insist:

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I didn't vote for Trump or Clinton because like I said, they were essentially the same person, just that Clinton had actual political experience where Trump had...well I'm not sure what he had. But in any case, both were woefully underqualified to lead the country. I, in turn, actually voted for Evan McMullin despite him being a Mormon. He got about 20% of the overall vote here in Utah (primarily because of his faith) but I thought he was a good balance and mostly stood for the same things I did. Plus I wasn't super keen on Gary Johnson. Still, I did my research and voted for the candidate who I thought would do the job the best.

With that said, the mentality that there are only two parties to choose from is exactly what's wrong with this country's political system. People vote for party A just because they aren't party B. This is how you end up with the choices of two people that couldn't lead their way out of a paper sack. I'm not sure why it's ingrained that you only have two choices but that couldn't be further from the truth. People need to vote based on their values and not by party.

This is why I can respect Bernie Sanders supporters. While I don't think Sanders would be a good leader, I can fully appreciate the people who voted for him (or even Jill Stein) because they did think he would be a good leader. They didn't let the fact that he wasn't the Democrat nominee hold them back from voting for the person that aligned with their beliefs.

I will never vote Democrat or Republican because I largely think they are exactly the same party with only a few minor differences. Like I mentioned before, Democrats want to give your money to younger people while Republicans seem to think old people deserve free money. There are a few other differences too, like which set of countries we're going to bomb, whether or not to support the Isreali terrorist state, and whether or not the government should weigh in on social issues that they don't belong in. But for the most part, they're the same, which is to say equally awful, slaves to lobbyists, and don't represent even a majority of the country...just those with money and influence.

If people spent more than 30 seconds trying to determine who to vote for, I'm guessing the nation as a whole would land on more third parties. Ideally, I'd like to see the Democrats and Republicans vanish to be replaced by Libertarians vs. Democratic Socialists. At least then they'd stand for different things.
 
I, in turn, actually voted for Evan McMullin
I rest my case, your vote affected the actual outcome of the presidential election how? You would have accomplished as much staying at home that day.

Like it or not currently this country is a two party system and so far I do not see that changing. Actually Trump was a big change from the norm as he is/was not a career politician and is just arrogant enough to be the wildcard that will not fall into line with the good old boys political club and business in D.C. as usual.
I'd like to see the Democrats and Republicans vanish to be replaced by Libertarians vs. Democratic Socialists. At least then they'd stand for different things
Fortunately in my opinion the majority of this countries population at this time does not agree with you. Socialist, just look to Venezuela and that countries current state of affairs to get an idea of what you are wishing this country to become. No matter what koolaid you have been drinking nothing in this world is free and everything someone somewhere is going to pay for it whether it be healthcare, education, food, housing it all actually has a price tag somebody ends up paying, the dems way is to take from those that have earned their money and give it to someone that wants a free ride.

With that mindset do you have to wonder why most large liberal Democrat run cities in this country are the worst run down, crime and rat infested, deep in debt with infrastructure that is falling apart sewers this country has to offer? And this is what you want running the nation? Better take of those rose colored glasses and come back to the real world, unicorns are a fantasy really regardless of what the libs have told you.
 
An autopsy found that financier Jeffrey Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones, according to two people familiar with the findings, deepening the mystery about the circumstances around his death.
Among the bones broken in Epstein’s neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said.
lol
 
I suppose whatever dirt Epstein had on global elites is now safely in the hands of top FBI and NYPD officials. The bulk of it will probably burn for the continuity of national security, with a few choice morsels wisely held for purposes of political control. Or maybe portions will be made available to victim's lawsuits? Or maybe Ghislaine Maxwell made off with it? You would think that she would be under arrest, but I guess not, even though she is said to currently be in the US.
 

An archaeo-anthropologist colleague reckons this is legit, hyoid breakages in general (across all age ranges) are an indicator of strangulation. In older people the data levels out to equate hanging and strangulation. Much will be made of this little stirrup but I think it's a no go. If Epstein needed rubbing out, so to speak, then I think he'd have had a terrible accident long before he presented himself at a US airport.
 
Or maybe Ghislaine Maxwell made off with it? You would think that she would be under arrest, but I guess not, even though she is said to currently be in the US.
I would guess with the recent high profile accusations and ****storms they created such as Kavanaugh hearings and the she said accusations that many prosecutors are more cautious and looking for a higher level of evidence than just the she said victims testimony before filing any charges.

Personally I think a person waiting 20 or 30 years before making accusations against a person is a crock to begin with. If a crime is committed against a person then those accusations should be made within a reasonable time frame of the event occurring when you know who committed the crime from the start.
 
In a two party system you have two legitimate candidates that may win the election, if you did not vote for Trump you would have voted for the Hildabeast is where she has something to do with it. Voting independent in the real world and the election results you may as well not even vote as your vote will not influence the actual elections results.

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I rest my case, your vote affected the actual outcome of the presidential election how? You would have accomplished as much staying at home that day.

How did yours?

You voted for the winner... congrats. He would have won without your vote. Democrats voted for a loser... every bit the loser that any 3rd party candidate was. I suppose their vote didn't influence the election. They would have accomplished just as much by staying home, the same amount that a vote for Romney or Cheney did. I love the weird logic pretzel you guys gets yourselves into.

Edit: I meant McCain not Cheney... how did nobody call me out on this?

Your vote only influences the election if you vote for the winner.
Wait... so democracy is not me representing myself, it's just me guessing what everyone else is going to vote for? But they're doing the same thing?
No no, your vote only influences the election if you vote for someone who could win.
Oh... so democracy is me representing myself, but only within the group of people that I think other people are going to vote for? And they're doing the same thing?
Yes.
But what if my candidate loses?
You influenced the election.
More than if I voted for a different candidate that loses?
Yes.
Why?
Because your vote got counted and people noticed who you voted for.
And that doesn't happen if I voted for a third party?
No.
Why?
Because they couldn't win.
So let me get this straight. I need to guess who other people are going to vote for, and then if I guess close enough to the winner, then my vote matters even if I vote for the loser.
Right.

Like it or not currently this country is a two party system and so far I do not see that changing.

Only to the extent that its population tries to guess how they should vote based on a very weird notion of trying to vote for who other people are voting for.
 
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I rest my case, your vote affected the actual outcome of the presidential election how? You would have accomplished as much staying at home that day.

Like it or not currently this country is a two party system and so far I do not see that changing. Actually Trump was a big change from the norm as he is/was not a career politician and is just arrogant enough to be the wildcard that will not fall into line with the good old boys political club and business in D.C. as usual.

If affected it by me not wasting a vote on two vastly unqualified candidates. Also, since McMullin had a real shot to win Utah, it very well could've thrown a wrench into the overall election. While Utah only has six electoral votes, it still would've sent a message to the nation.

And, that's kind of amusing you seem to think Trump is a change from the norm.

Fortunately in my opinion the majority of this countries population at this time does not agree with you. Socialist, just look to Venezuela and that countries current state of affairs to get an idea of what you are wishing this country to become. No matter what koolaid you have been drinking nothing in this world is free and everything someone somewhere is going to pay for it whether it be healthcare, education, food, housing it all actually has a price tag somebody ends up paying, the dems way is to take from those that have earned their money and give it to someone that wants a free ride.

With that mindset do you have to wonder why most large liberal Democrat run cities in this country are the worst run down, crime and rat infested, deep in debt with infrastructure that is falling apart sewers this country has to offer? And this is what you want running the nation? Better take of those rose colored glasses and come back to the real world, unicorns are a fantasy really regardless of what the libs have told you.

Wait...do you actually know what a libertarian is? I'm not liberal or socialist in any way, in fact, I'm probably completely the opposite of it. I mean for the gods sake, you're talking to someone who thinks Republicans are socialist if that gives you any clue.
 
An archaeo-anthropologist colleague reckons this is legit, hyoid breakages in general (across all age ranges) are an indicator of strangulation. In older people the data levels out to equate hanging and strangulation. Much will be made of this little stirrup but I think it's a no go. If Epstein needed rubbing out, so to speak, then I think he'd have had a terrible accident long before he presented himself at a US airport.
IMO Epstein was almost certainly murdered. He certainly seemed to have it coming. Fortunately, the justice system in America works well, albeit in a rough sense.

 
Wait...do you actually know what a libertarian is
seems the Libertarian movement is so fragmented depending on which faction you identify with to what your core beliefs may be.
So let me get this straight. I need to guess who other people are going to vote for, and then if I guess close enough to the winner, then my vote matters even if I vote for the loser.
Right.
No, actually knowing that one of the two candidates WILL win the election as a voter it is in your best interest to vote for the candidate and party who's beliefs are the closest to your own even if they are not exactly aligned. One of those two candidates will end up in the White House and I will attempt to get the best option to fill that position.
Myself I have never actually seen a 3rd party candidate that I felt what they represented was superior and actually had a chance of working in this country.

I could actually put my money down on a shetland pony to win the Kentucky Derby as well and it would make as much sense as putting my vote on some unknown, unpopular nationwide 3rd party nobody to go in the white house. At least by betting on a contender my vote is not a total waste.
 
seems the Libertarian movement is so fragmented depending on which faction you identify with to what your core beliefs may be.

Ok, so you have no idea what a libertarian is then. Got it.

In simple terms, they just want the government to get the hell out of their lives and to follow the Constitution. Also, taxes of any kind amount to theft. There are things Libertarians and libertarians disagree on, but what political ideology doesn't have that?

And this is why I say Republicans are socialist. They want to take my money and give it to old people because god forbid they actually have some sort of retirement plan or pay for their healthcare. Also, Republicans are keen on corporate welfare, which is still just welfare, and burning money to prop up a military complex that's completely unnecessary.

Basically, quit taking the money I work for.

I could actually put my money down on a shetland pony to win the Kentucky Derby as well and it would make as much sense as putting my vote on some unknown, unpopular nationwide 3rd party nobody to go in the white house. At least by betting on a contender my vote is not a total waste.

I don't know, those who bet on the 65-1 longshot Country House seem to make out pretty good.
 
No, actually knowing that one of the two candidates WILL win the election as a voter it is in your best interest to vote for the candidate and party who's beliefs are the closest to your own even if they are not exactly aligned.

Kodos then.

One of those two candidates will end up in the White House and I will attempt to get the best option to fill that position.

And we all lose when lots of people do this.

Myself I have never actually seen a 3rd party candidate that I felt what they represented was superior and actually had a chance of working in this country.

This is why you're having trouble understanding voting for someone you know won't win. Just imagine you're a republican in California, knowing damned well that the democrat will win, and voting republican anyway.

I could actually put my money down on a shetland pony to win the Kentucky Derby as well and it would make as much sense as putting my vote on some unknown, unpopular nationwide 3rd party nobody to go in the white house. At least by betting on a contender my vote is not a total waste.

Explain how it is not. Explain what it is that gives your vote meaning. When does your vote "influence" the election?
 
They want to take my money and give it to old people because god forbid they actually have some sort of retirement plan or pay for their healthcare.
You do realize that before Americans draw the FIRST dime from Social Security they have actually paid into a system weekly for about 50 years or made roughly 2600 weekly premium payments into it before they draw a dime. I do not think that equates on the government giving money to old people just because they are old.

Medicare, Retirees pay a monthly premium just like any other insurance. Drug or prescription coverage is not included and takes buying another expensive policy if it covers anything for the entire year and there is no out of pocket limits on Medicare it pays 80% of hospital bills so to protect yourself again you need to buy another insurance policy that will pay for charges medicaid will not cover. Again premium levels dictate the coverages.

So before you continue to spout off how you are giving the old people something remember as well those same old people have paid real estate taxes that put their kids through school, their grandkids through school and probably putting your kids through school as well.

So your giving them something for nothing is fake news and propaganda.
 
You do realize that before Americans draw the FIRST dime from Social Security they have actually paid into a system weekly for about 50 years or made roughly 2600 weekly premium payments into it before they draw a dime. I do not think that equates on the government giving money to old people just because they are old.

No. What you paid into the system is gone. What you're receiving is money taken from working people. It is socialist.

Medicare, Retirees pay a monthly premium just like any other insurance.

Subsidized by taxpayers. Socialist.
 
No. What you paid into the system is gone. What you're receiving is money taken from working people. It is socialist.
Do you think your private insurance is using your premium payments you sent in to pay your medical bills? You are always working within a pool of money.

And yes I understand my "payments were used as they were collected, does not change I have paid in advance for what I may receive. Now my grandfather and mother did not live long enough to collect but they still funded the system.
Subsidized by taxpayers. Socialist.
No different than me paying for others kids to go to school after I have already paid for mine and my grandkids? Like I have said in other threads nothing is free, it all has a price and regardless of what party controls the government the price to run it will not disappear,
 
You do realize that before Americans draw the FIRST dime from Social Security they have actually paid into a system weekly for about 50 years or made roughly 2600 weekly premium payments into it before they draw a dime. I do not think that equates on the government giving money to old people just because they are old.

Yes, it really does equate to the government giving money to people who are old. The people receiving social security now are getting it because I'm being taxed twice a month. I'm essentially propping up people over the age of 65, just like those before me propped up those over the age of 65 (as long as it was before 1966).

Social security is a scam that shouldn't exist.

Medicare, Retirees pay a monthly premium just like any other insurance. Drug or prescription coverage is not included and takes buying another expensive policy if it covers anything for the entire year and there is no out of pocket limits on Medicare it pays 80% of hospital bills so to protect yourself again you need to buy another insurance policy that will pay for charges medicaid will not cover. Again premium levels dictate the coverages.

Ya, I work in healthcare, I'm acutely aware of how Medicare works. It's a subsidized insurance plan that's propped up by working people and I'm taxed twice a month because of it.

You get premium-free Medicare Part A if you meet the requirements, which are pretty easy to meet. Otherwise, I believe the premiums for Medicare across the board are $135 a month in 2019 if you make less than $85,000. That's insanely cheap insurance.

Medicare is socialized medicine no matter what liberal hating Boomer want to spout. If you hate the Affordable Care Act aka "ObamaCare" then you're a hypocrite if you don't equally hate Medicare/Medicaid.

So before you continue to spout off how you are giving the old people something remember as well those same old people have paid real estate taxes that put their kids through school, their grandkids through school and probably putting your kids through school as well.

So you're saying they deserve something for essentially living their life? Ya, that's not how this works.

And no one is putting my kid through school because he's 9 months old and doesn't go to school. Once he's school age, he'll go to a private school that I will likely pay out of pocket for.
 
Do you think your private insurance is using your premium payments you sent in to pay your medical bills? You are always working within a pool of money.

Voluntary vs. non-voluntary.

And yes I understand my "payments were used as they were collected, does not change I have paid in advance for what I may receive. Now my grandfather and mother did not live long enough to collect but they still funded the system.

No different than me paying for others kids to go to school after I have already paid for mine and my grandkids? Like I have said in other threads nothing is free, it all has a price and regardless of what party controls the government the price to run it will not disappear,

How is this an argument that it's not socialist?
 
You get premium-free Medicare Part A if you meet the requirements, which are pretty easy to meet. Otherwise, I believe the premiums for Medicare across the board are $135 a month in 2019 if you make less than $85,000. That's insanely cheap insurance.

And if you know how it works you know that 135.00 premium is a joke and the cheap part, add in GOOD drug coverage and good supplemental coverage and you will easily see that 135.00 a month to to 500.00- 600.00+ a month and you tell me that is insanely cheap and given to the older people free!
 
And if you know how it works you know that 135.00 premium is a joke and the cheap part, add in GOOD drug coverage and good supplemental coverage and you will easily see that 135.00 a month to to 500.00- 600.00+ a month and you tell me that is insanely cheap and given to the older people free!

So I mistyped, Medicare Part B is $135 a month and Part D, which is for scripts, is $13 a month if you make over $85,000 (although the national average is $33). Supplemental drug coverage can be upwards of $180 or as low as $10 depending on what you want. Still, in the grand scheme of things, it's pretty cheap. Yes, there are exceptions which is probably the $600 figure you're quoting, but for the vast majority of people over the age of 65 Medicare is very affordable because the government subsidizes it with my money.

To look at it another way assuming a person is 65 and retired, they're looking at $350 a month for insurance on the high end with supplemental coverage. One the low end, they're looking at paying $150, which is exactly what I pay now for my health insurance. However, my insurance is a bit of an anomaly because the system I work for owns the insurance company and we get a discount, plus an additional discount if we're healthy.

Whichever way you slice it though, Medicare (along with Social Security) is an entitlement program and is socialist in nature. That's why I also get confused when older people bitch about like the ACA, but demand their Medicare. At the core, both are pretty much the same thing.
 
Hammer & Sickle Imperial Russian Stout. It's made by some Colorado brewer, Renegade maybe?
Just confirmed that it is Renegade out of Denver. I'm not a stout fan but I want to try it now just because.
 


A sitting President directly calling out Representatives as being anti-Israel and generally anti-Semitic.
 
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