America - The Official Thread

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From The Guardian:

September 9, 1998
Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr releases his report to Congress. It has 11 possible grounds for impeachment. The House votes to make the 445-page report public.

September 11, 1998
Congress makes the report public.

October 5, 1998
The House Judiciary Committee votes to launch a congressional impeachment inquiry against President Clinton.

October 8, 1998
The House of Representatives vote for impeachment proceedings to begin against Clinton. The House judiciary committee will be given wide powers to draw up detailed charges against Mr Clinton, based on 11 allegations by the independent counsel Kenneth Starr in his report on the Monica Lewinsky affair.

October 14, 1998
The House judiciary committee chairman Henry Hyde announces the impeachment inquiry will concentrate its focus on two core charges: that Mr Clinton lied under oath and attempted to obstruct justice.


By the time the Judiciary committee voted for the impeachment inquiry, there had been a DNA test (blue dress), and Clinton had already confessed to the American people to the Lewinski affair.

The impeachment inquiry didn't start with a declaration from the speaker of the house.

Now the White House is refusing to participate in the scam.

Let the members of the house that are pushing for impeachment cast their vote so their constituents know who they are.

What does Clinton have to do about this impeachment inquiry. They have absolutely 0 to do with each other!

Agreed. I think that the lack of impeachment over obstruction outlined in the Mueller report emboldened him. And I think re-election might be enough to make him start acting out on his worst statements.

He has literally said it he could commit a felony in broad daylight and in public and he wouldnt lose a vote. That is how emboldened, wreckless and narcissistic he is.

 
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To be fair, they are both impeachment inquiries for the sitting president. So "0" might be overstating it a bit.

Perhaps but the crime or misconduct is different. You cant compare a drugtrafficking case with a murder case.
Only perhaps Nixon's case has some similarities with obstuction of justice and spying on political opponents.
 
Americans are among the most afflicted with depression, according to stats I've seen lately.

Millennials ditching jobs over mental health: Study

Half of Millennials have left their jobs over mental health reasons.

Young people are spearheading mental health awareness at the workplace.

About half of millennials and 75 percent of Gen Zers have quit their jobs for mental health reasons, according to a new study conducted by Mind Shares Partners, SAP and Quatrics. It was published in Harvard Business Review.

That’s compared to just 20 percent of respondents overall who said they’ve voluntarily left a job in order to prioritize their mental health — emblematic of a “shift in generational awareness,” the authors of the report, Kelly Greenwood, Vivek Bapat and Mike Maughan, wrote. For baby boomers, the number was the lowest, with less than 10 percent quitting a job for mental-health purposes.

It should come as no surprise that younger generations are paving the way for the de-stigmatization of mental health. A Wall Street Journal article published in March labeled millennials the “therapy generation,” as todays 20- and 30-somethings are more likely to turn to therapy, and with fewer reservations, than young people in previous eras did.

bd3c4277-79aa7a41406b44609cee8abb4e001849.jpg

In this Jan. 9, 2017, photo, Andrea Ledesma spreads sauce on pizza dough at Classic Slice restaurant in Milwaukee. (AP Photo/Carrie Antlfinger)

A 2017 report from the Center for Collegiate Mental Health at Penn State University found that, based on data from 147 colleges and universities, the number of students seeking mental-health help increased at five times the rate of new students starting college from 2011 to 2016. And a Blue Cross Blue Shield study published in 2018 revealed that major depression diagnoses surged by 44 percent among millennials from 2013 to 2016.

Increasingly, employees (about 86 percent) want their company to prioritize mental health.

Despite that — and the fact that mental health conditions result in a $16.8 billion loss in employee productivity — the report found that companies are still not doing enough to break down the stigma, resulting in a lack of identification in workers who may have a mental health condition. Up to 80 percent of individuals will manage a mental health condition at one point in their lifetime, according to the study.

Of course, sometimes employees are unaware of the different resources offered at their organizations, or are afraid of retribution if they elect to use them. In the study, millennials, ages 23 to 38, were 63 percent more likely than baby boomers, 55 to 73, to know the proper procedure for seeking mental health support from the company.

The study was based on responses collected from 1,500 U.S. adults
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/young-people-quitting-jobs-why

https://www.studyfinds.org/nervous-...ve-they-have-an-undiagnosed-anxiety-disorder/
 
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The problem is probably there is no clear definition what is "befitting". Everyone knows he lies and is a corrupt person even before he started his campaign. Impeaching him wont change that at all. Especially when he is still on that pedestal called the presidency. Seemingly above the law.
I've got a little thought exercise for you. Now...this is to be entirely internal, not subject to "but I don't know how other people think" or similar consideration. And frankly I don't even expect a response as it is just a thought exercise.

Question 1: Do you believe he's engaged in activities--criminal or otherwise--inappropriate for an individual occupying the president?

If you do, continue to Question 2.
If you do not, what's the problem?

Question 2: Do you believe he will continue to engage in activities--criminal or otherwise--inappropriate for an individual occupying the office of the president?

If you do, continue to Question 3.
If you do not, why not? And what's the problem?

Question 3: Do you believe these activities should be left unchecked?

If you do, you're party to these activities.
If you do not, well hot dog, you're in favor of impeachment proceedings.

The best and fastest way to get rid of him is not impeachment, but voting him out of office. You also reduce the risk of political backfire. Replacing or removing him have largely the same purpose. The risk of impeachment backfiring is one that should not be overlooked.
Impeachment is not removal. It may be the first step in a process that ultimately leads to removal (fat chance given the collective spinelessness of the Republican contingent of the Republican-led Senate), but it's a duty of the lower legislative branch (and one bestowed solely unto them) in serving as a check against abuses in the executive branch. Not going forward when abuses are suspected makes them party to those suspected abuses. Potential for backfire is also not reasonable justification for not going forward when abuses are suspected, as not doing so sets a very dangerous precedent; it effectively says the executive branch and individuals therein can get away with these abuses, and that's not strong motivation to not continue them.

But is potential for backfire really a legitimate concern? I suppose it can be seen as purely political posturing, giving those who support the administration cause to redouble their efforts, but I'd wager that some 90% of those who see it this way are those who not only supported the administration but whose support is unlikely to waiver.

I can maybe even see these particular proceedings not boding well for the Bidens (if there's actually anything substantive there, but then I highly doubt there is), and frankly I'm okay with that; I'm not a fan of Biden as a prospective presidential candidate, or as a person in general, and even if I was, I would still not want to see abuses go unchecked. If he or they are actually guilty of criminal activity, it should be punished.

Also in my opinion Trump should not get the possibility to be pardoned by Pence or anyone else.
I'm also not certain this is a legitimate concern. The Constitution holds that the pardon, as presidential privilege, does not extend to cases of impeachment.
 
He has literally said it he could commit a felony in broad daylight and in public and he wouldnt lose a vote. That is how emboldened, wreckless and narcissistic he is.



At least attempted murder actually...

That video is not aging well.
 
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At least attempted murder actually...

That video is not aging well.

How come? It is pretty much what he is doing. In his mind he can do everything he wants and he believes his supporters would still vote for him.

I've got a little thought exercise for you. Now...this is to be entirely internal, not subject to "but I don't know how other people think" or similar consideration. And frankly I don't even expect a response as it is just a thought exercise.

Question 1: Do you believe he's engaged in activities--criminal or otherwise--inappropriate for an individual occupying the president?

If you do, continue to Question 2.
If you do not, what's the problem?

Question 2: Do you believe he will continue to engage in activities--criminal or otherwise--inappropriate for an individual occupying the office of the president?

If you do, continue to Question 3.
If you do not, why not? And what's the problem?

Question 3: Do you believe these activities should be left unchecked?

If you do, you're party to these activities.
If you do not, well hot dog, you're in favor of impeachment proceedings.


Impeachment is not removal. It may be the first step in a process that ultimately leads to removal (fat chance given the collective spinelessness of the Republican contingent of the Republican-led Senate), but it's a duty of the lower legislative branch (and one bestowed solely unto them) in serving as a check against abuses in the executive branch. Not going forward when abuses are suspected makes them party to those suspected abuses. Potential for backfire is also not reasonable justification for not going forward when abuses are suspected, as not doing so sets a very dangerous precedent; it effectively says the executive branch and individuals therein can get away with these abuses, and that's not strong motivation to not continue them.

But is potential for backfire really a legitimate concern? I suppose it can be seen as purely political posturing, giving those who support the administration cause to redouble their efforts, but I'd wager that some 90% of those who see it this way are those who not only supported the administration but whose support is unlikely to waiver.

I can maybe even see these particular proceedings not boding well for the Bidens (if there's actually anything substantive there, but then I highly doubt there is), and frankly I'm okay with that; I'm not a fan of Biden as a prospective presidential candidate, or as a person in general, and even if I was, I would still not want to see abuses go unchecked. If he or they are actually guilty of criminal activity, it should be punished.


I'm also not certain this is a legitimate concern. The Constitution holds that the pardon, as presidential privilege, does not extend to cases of impeachment.

I really do understand that view. But the problem is that a sitting president cannot be proscecuted and a senate with a republican majority and a leader like Mcconnel impeachment is highly unlikely. In an ideal world I would support your stance wholeheartedly, but in my opinion it will not result him going to prison or be punished for his crimes. I really would like to see him impeached and removed and then criminally charged for obstruction of justice, money laundering, fraud, corruption, conspiracy etc. His "great and unmatched wisdom" should be exposed for what it is.
 
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How come? It is pretty much what he is doing. In his mind he can do everything he wants and he believes his supporters would still vote for him.

You can hear the chuckle from the audience in the speech. They think it's a joke. Just about everyone thought it was hyperbole (probably Trump too). But it's very different to take that video seriously, which is what more recent events begin to require. Thus, the video looks more and more like that of an aspiring tyrant than a politician boasting about his numbers.
 
You can hear the chuckle from the audience in the speech. They think it's a joke. Just about everyone thought it was hyperbole (probably Trump too). But it's very different to take that video seriously, which is what more recent events begin to require. Thus, the video looks more and more like that of an aspiring tyrant than a politician boasting about his numbers.

It was a hyperbole, but I really believe that in that moment he started to believe he was going to become all powerfull. He suggested multiple times that he should have the chance to be president longer then 2 terms, he refers to article 2 as having an absolute right to do anything he wants, making important decisions via twitter, before even consulting with advisors etc.
 
I really do understand that view. But the problem is that a sitting president cannot be proscecuted and a senate with a republican majority and a leader like Mcconnel impeachment is highly unlikely. In an ideal world I would support your stance wholeheartedly, but in my opinion it will not result him going to prison or be punished for his crimes. I really would like to see him impeached and removed and then criminally charged for obstruction of justice, money laundering, fraud, corruption, conspiracy etc. His "great and unmatched wisdom" should be exposed for what it is.
It isn't so much a punishment as it is--as Rep. Thaddeus Stevens stated during Andrew Johnson's impeachment proceedings--"intended as a remedy for malfeasance in office and to prevent continuance thereof." My series of questions for you was formed largely around that.

Also, whatever is or is not expected of the Senate is not reasonable justification for the House to not move forward. The House's failure to move forward is a failure to act in service to the People, which is their duty.

Edit:

It was a hyperbole, but I really believe that in that moment he started to believe he was going to become all powerfull. He suggested multiple times that he should have the chance to be president longer then 2 terms, he refers to article 2 as having an absolute right to do anything he wants, making important decisions via twitter, before even consulting with advisors etc.
Y'know, it sure sounds like you're in favor of impeachment proceedings.
 
It isn't so much a punishment as it is--as Rep. Thaddeus Stevens stated during Andrew Johnson's impeachment proceedings--"intended as a remedy for malfeasance in office and to prevent continuance thereof." My series of questions for you was formed largely around that.

Also, whatever is or is not expected of the Senate is not reasonable justification for the House to not move forward. The House's failure to move forward is a failure to act in service to the People, which is their duty.

The problem is how polarised the people are. According to polls still roughly half of the people believe Trump did not do anything wrong.
 
That has nothing to do with what I said.

Also, opinion polls are little more than fodder for bandwagon fallacy. Don't put so much stock in them.

Oh sorry, It was a comment on "to act in service of the people". Half of these people believe the impeachment inquiry is a witch hunt.
 
Oh sorry, It was a comment on "to act in service of the people". Half of these people believe the impeachment inquiry is a witch hunt.
Cause it is. They were trying to figure out how to get rid of him before he even became President. I've never seen a President go through this much crap.
 
Cause it is. They were trying to figure out how to get rid of him before he even became President. I've never seen a President go through this much crap.

I agree the whole Russia election thing was kind of shaky, but the Ukraine thing is not a witch hunt. Trump is more than likely guilty here and he's definitely guilty of obstruction because he flat out said he won't cooperate in the investigation. He also called for the murder of the whistleblower. If that whistleblower is killed, Trump would probably be guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

And Trump brings nearly all of the crap on himself. If he acted even the slightest bit professional, he probably wouldn't be under so much scrutiny. But since he acts like a child who doesn't get his way, blatantly ignores the Constitution, and doesn't understand how checks and balances work, he's going to get crapped on...and he deserves pretty much all of it.
 
Half of these people believe the impeachment inquiry is a witch hunt.

So what? This is doubly irrelevant.

For one, impeachment isn't a question of popular opinion; it's a duty of the job they the were elected and sworn to do.

For another, looking at it from a popularity/politics standpoint, there is zero overlap between Trump supporters and the folks who voted for the Democratic representatives who would be the driving force behind any impeachment.

--

Cause it is. They were trying to figure out how to get rid of him before he even became President. I've never seen a President go through this much crap.

:lol:

What an absurd statement. Obama spent six of his eight years unable to pass anything through a Republican Congress that opposed everything he did simply because they didn't like him. He faced a media that criticized his tan suits and the way he held coffee more harshly than they criticize our current president's almost certainly illegal behavior.
 
So what? This is doubly irrelevant.

For one, impeachment isn't a question of popular opinion; it's a duty of the job they the were elected and sworn to do.

For another, looking at it from a popularity/politics standpoint, there is zero overlap between Trump supporters and the folks who voted for the Democratic representatives who would be the driving force behind any impeachment.

--



:lol:

What an absurd statement. Obama spent six of his eight years unable to pass anything through a Republican Congress that opposed everything he did simply because they didn't like him. He faced a media that criticized his tan suits and the way he held coffee more harshly than they criticize our current president's almost certainly illegal behavior.
I'm not talking about the media or what bills he got passed. I'm taking about the impeachment witch hunt...
 
I'm not talking about the media or what bills he got passed. I'm taking about the impeachment witch hunt...

Given the calls for impeachment right after the election and long before the inauguration, I think that's a fair statement.
 
I'm not talking about the media or what bills he got passed. I'm taking about the impeachment witch hunt...

Trump has had to deal with a lot. It's true. Of course he bears full responsibility for that. You can drop the phrase "witch hunt", though, since there is direct evidence. Trump has been accused of a few big ticket items during his presidency:

- Collusion with Russia (no evidence linking him specifically)
- Obstruction of justice regarding collusion with Russia (yea he did this one)
- Bribing the Ukraine with US property to dig up dirt on a political rival (the call was literally recorded, he did it)
- Obstruction of justice regarding the Ukraine investigation (yup, he did this one too)

So if we're calling it a witch hunt, there are at least 3 out of 4 witches actually present. And by the way, the last 3 kinda make it hard to imagine that he's completely innocent on the first one. Sure maybe the evidence wasn't strong enough, but certainly it's hard to say with a straight face that it's out of character.
 
If Trump ever got a chance to speak to his past self (1, 5, or 20 years ago), I guess his message would be: "Never, NEVER! talk on the phone to a guy who played the piano with his dick!".
 
Unsurprisingly, much of the GOP's focus has been on the Democrats and toeing the party line rather than on the accusations themselves. There is at least one Republican who has addressed the call at the center of the Ukraine debacle; Rep. Michael C. Burgess--representing Texas's 26th congressional district and among the opponents of impeachment proceedings in the House--spoke on the impeachment inquiry a couple of weeks ago:

"I think it’s a mistake," Burgess said.

Burgess said the Trump administration, after having been involved in multiple scandals of foreign influence, is bogged down by an "unhealthy" number of leaks to the public and news media.

"The president should be able to speak to a foreign leader candidly and not have the contents of those conversations spill out into the public domain," Burgess said. "The president as the leader of the country has the obligation, the right to interact with foreign leaders and to do so in a fashion where it’s not going to be prematurely or incompletely reported by members of the press."
It's worth mentioning that this is the same Rep. Burgess who, in 2011, agreed with and subsequently reaffirmed the notion that the impeachment process should be used against President Obama as a means to "tie things up"--to prevent him from "pushing his agenda".

Burgess, R-Lewisville, spoke at an NE Tarrant Tea Party event Monday evening in Keller. An attendee drew applause when he asked Burgess' opinion about Congress attempting to impeach Obama to prevent him from getting anything else done. Burgess was receptive to the idea: "It needs to happen."

...

On Tuesday, Burgess made conflicting remarks to North Texas newspapers seeking further comment.

Speaking to a Star-Telegram editorial writer, Burgess maintained that he supported the idea of using the impeachment process against Obama to "tie things up."

But Burgess told a Dallas Morning News reporter that day that he will not advocate for impeaching Obama. The article quoted Burgess as describing his remarks at the Tea Party event as "trying to honestly answer [the attendee's] question."

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24692269.html
Is that hypocritical? That sure seems hypocritical.
 
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