America - The Official Thread

[Danoff]

That's exactly what they are talking about. A representative said she doesn't see how sex between a 14yro and a 24 yro is consensual.

It's not. And that's not changing. So that representative didn't seem to understand the point. As best I can tell from what has been posted here, it's a discretionary sentencing adjustment for circumstances where the age is less than 10 years. Not a determination that anything new is consensual or not.

Because if you're under 18 you're just magically unable to make decisions for yourself. That's BS.

It's a bright line drawn over a fuzzy area out of necessity.

 

[Groundfish]

LOWERING PENALTY: A new bill headed the desk of the California governor would lower penalties for adults who have consensual sex with a minor if the offender is within 10 years of age with the victim.

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/ne...adults-who-have-sexual-relations-with-a-minor

In other words after a quick glance, they are trying to remove the sex offender registration mandate.

Scumbag pedophile bill. This is your dem supermajority. Release people from prisons, allow pedophilia, don’t enforce laws, blame Trump, ruin state, move to other states rinse repeat.
They are like locusts.

 

[polysmut]

Scumbag pedophile bill. This is your dem supermajority. Release people from prisons, allow pedophilia, don’t enforce laws, blame Trump, ruin state, move to other states rinse repeat.
They are like locusts.

That's what you think it says? How?

 

[TexRex]

Heh.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Scumbag pedophile bill. This is your dem supermajority. Release people from prisons, allow pedophilia, don’t enforce laws, blame Trump, ruin state, move to other states rinse repeat.
They are like locusts.

 

[Joey D]

Scumbag pedophile bill. This is your dem supermajority. Release people from prisons, allow pedophilia, don’t enforce laws, blame Trump, ruin state, move to other states rinse repeat.
They are like locusts.

This will protect those who are 19 and have a 17 year older boyfriend/girlfriend. This is pretty common and not really an issue. Hell, given the way schools are it's not inconceivable that a 17 and 19-year-old would be in the same senior class in high school.

Plus the judge has discretion as well. I highly doubt you'll see any judge think it's OK for a 14-year-old and a 24-year-old to be having consensual sex. But a line needs to be drawn somewhere. The ten-year thing was probably based on data from cases the legal system has seen.

 

[Groundfish]

If your daughters 14 and a 24 year old guy has sex with her you guys are ok with that?!!!
Also your 14 year old son with 24 year old woman or man?
If you’re ok with that fine, but I’m not.
The guy doing this comes from SF which has one of the worst crime rates anywhere.
Scum

 

[TexRex]

Heh.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Heh.

It not even worth the effort anymore...

 

[Joey D]

If your daughters 14 and a 24 year old guy has sex with her you guys are ok with that?!!!
Also your 14 year old son with 24 year old woman or man?
If you’re ok with that fine, but I’m not.
The guy doing this comes from SF which has one of the worst crime rates anywhere.
Scum

No, but if I had a 17-year-old daughter and she was having sex with a 19-year-old, I'd be OK with that. I certainly wouldn't want her boyfriend to end up on the sex offenders list because they were having consensual sex.

Plus if you know it's going on and you treat your child with respect, they'll tell you if things are bad. Otherwise, they're going to do it anyway and sneak around behind your back, meaning you can't do anything about it. I'd rather be in the know, teach my kid to stand up for themselves, and to make the right choices.

 

[polysmut]

If your daughters 14 and a 24 year old guy has sex with her you guys are ok with that?!!!
Also your 14 year old son with 24 year old woman or man?
If you’re ok with that fine, but I’m not.
The guy doing this comes from SF which has one of the worst crime rates anywhere.
Scum

That's what you think it says? How?

It's a serious question.

 

[Danoff]

If your daughters 14 and a 24 year old guy has sex with her you guys are ok with that?!!!
Also your 14 year old son with 24 year old woman or man?
If you’re ok with that fine, but I’m not.
The guy doing this comes from SF which has one of the worst crime rates anywhere.
Scum

You've misread the article, and are not understanding what is being proposed. This does not make it legal for people within 10 years of age to have sex with minors. It just gives judges latitude to keep their names off the registry. It's still a crime.

Calm down, and understand what's being said.

 

[TexRex]

Plus if you know it's going on and you treat your child with respect, they'll tell you if things are bad. Otherwise, they're going to do it anyway and sneak around behind your back, meaning you can't do anything about it. I'd rather be in the know, teach my kid to stand up for themselves, and to make the right choices.

This. Every danged bit of it.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

If your daughters 14 and a 24 year old guy has sex with her you guys are ok with that?!!!
Also your 14 year old son with 24 year old woman or man?
If you’re ok with that fine, but I’m not.
The guy doing this comes from SF which has one of the worst crime rates anywhere.
Scum

Just curious, have you been to SF?

Also, from around the country:

Indiana
The age of consent in Indiana is 16.[169] A close-in-age exception allows minors 14–15 years of age to legally consent to sex with a partner who is less than 18 years old.

Iowa
The age of consent in Iowa is 16, with a close-in-age exemption for those aged 14 and 15, who may engage in sexual acts with partners less than 4 years older.

Kansas
The age of consent in Kansas is 16. K.S.A. 21-5503, 21-5504, 21-5506 and 21-5507 prohibit sexual activity with minors aged 14 and 15. K.S.A. 21-5507 allows for a lesser penalty if the minor is 14 or 15 and the offender is under 19 years old.

Maine
The age of consent in Maine is 16. Teenagers aged 14 and 15 may engage in sexual intercourse with partners who are less than 5 years older.

Oklahoma
The age of consent in Oklahoma is 16.[193][72] A close-in-age exemption applies if the minor was over the age of 14 and the actor was age 18 or younger.

Note that these are full on exemptions (except Kansas which seems to be similar to CA in this case)....as in the conduct would be legal. So if you're gonna get bent out of shape, get bent out of shape about Iowa or Oklahoma where an 18 year old can legally have sex with a 14 year old.

In California, there is a crime of "Unlawful sexual intercourse", which is an act of sexual intercourse with a person under the age of 18 who is not the spouse of the person. (CA Penal Code § 261.5 (a)) There are no exceptions; all sexual activity with a person under the age of 18 (and not their spouse) is a criminal offense. So if a 15-year-old willingly has sex with a 17-year-old, both have committed a crime, although it is only a misdemeanor.

 

[Groundfish]

Plus if you know it's going on and you treat your child with respect, they'll tell you if things are bad. Otherwise, they're going to do it anyway and sneak around behind your back, meaning you can't do anything about it. I'd rather be in the know, teach my kid to stand up for themselves, and to make the right choices.

This. I’m not worried for my own, they are past that age, but if they were 14 and had that happen the 24 year old rapist would have bigger probs than having to register as a sex offender, that much I can tell you.
Plus, this bill allows men who like you boys to go ahead and not worry about teaching them how great it is to allow themselves to be violated.
Proving lack of consent would get tricky.
The 17-18 thing is a problem tho, but in most cases of that that I’ve seen everyone around knows, I guess, and that hasn’t been a problem that I’ve seen, but obviously it gets messy if there’s a falling out with parents etc.
Catholic priests Boy Scout troop leader sexual predators, teachers, theres where the issue gets even worse tho.
It’s open season for those scum to rape with zero consequences now.
That’s the leftist oriented politics, everything goes, kinda eerily similar to libertarianism, just coming at it from the opposite end of the spectrum.
These people’s goal is to ruin the country.
The leftists have in the last 30 years have sold us out, opened the borders, and have been working on bankrupting us for some time.
Now just add laws allowing pedophilia, perfect for them, friends of Epstein!

@EunosCosmo, the city was nice in the 90’s now it’s trash. I don’t care what consenting adults do, but 14 isn’t adult. Consenting adults? Who cares?
When my daughter was 14 if she got raped I’d be temporarily insane while beating the scumbags skull in. I’d need a good lawyer lol
Sf isn’t much different from Seattle. Car theft drug use, citizens forming up their own poop patrol to clean up the human feces on the street, very sad.

 

[PeterJB]

I'm not sure how I'd feel about a 17-year old sleeping with a 19-year old if they were that age when they started dating, but if they were say 17 and 15 when they started sleeping together (I'm not sure how consent laws work if both parties are underage, but let's be honest under-18s sleeping together is not exactly uncommon) you can't really blame them for not wanting to then stop for two years to wait for the younger one to turn 18.

 

[TexRex]

This. I’m not worried for my own, they are past that age, but if they were 14 and had that happen the 24 year old rapist would have bigger probs than having to register as a sex offender, that much I can tell you.
Plus, this bill allows men who like you boys to go ahead and not worry about teaching them how great it is to allow themselves to be violated.
Proving lack of consent would get tricky.
The 17-18 thing is a problem tho, but in most cases of that that I’ve seen everyone around knows, I guess, and that hasn’t been a problem that I’ve seen, but obviously it gets messy if there’s a falling out with parents etc.
Catholic priests Boy Scout troop leader sexual predators, teachers, theres where the issue gets even worse tho.
It’s open season for those scum to rape with zero consequences now.
That’s the leftist oriented politics, everything goes, kinda eerily similar to libertarianism, just coming at it from the opposite end of the spectrum.
These people’s goal is to ruin the country.
The leftists have in the last 30 years have sold us out, opened the borders, and have been working on bankrupting us for some time.
Now just add laws allowing pedophilia, perfect for them, friends of Epstein!

I realize raw emotion is the special for today, but you might want to give the slow-simmered reason a try.

 

[Joey D]

This. I’m not worried for my own, they are past that age, but if they were 14 and had that happen the 24 year old rapist would have bigger probs than having to register as a sex offender, that much I can tell you.
Plus, this bill allows men who like you boys to go ahead and not worry about teaching them how great it is to allow themselves to be violated.
Proving lack of consent would get tricky.
The 17-18 thing is a problem tho, but in most cases of that that I’ve seen everyone around knows, I guess, and that hasn’t been a problem that I’ve seen, but obviously it gets messy if there’s a falling out with parents etc.
Catholic priests Boy Scout troop leader sexual predators, teachers, theres where the issue gets even worse tho.
It’s open season for those scum to rape with zero consequences now.
That’s the leftist oriented politics, everything goes, kinda eerily similar to libertarianism, just coming at it from the opposite end of the spectrum.
These people’s goal is to ruin the country.
The leftists have in the last 30 years have sold us out, opened the borders, and have been working on bankrupting us for some time.
Now just add laws allowing pedophilia, perfect for them, friends of Epstein!

It's not zero consequences though. You can still very much face criminal charges, it's just up to the judge to make the call on putting them on the sex offenders list.

 

[Famine]

Now just add laws allowing pedophilia

My understanding of this bill is that it has no effect on the legality of bonking kids, it seeks to lessen the punishment if one is at least close in age to the kid and - aside from the fact that consent cannot actually be given in cases where the kid is below the local age of consent - the sex is consensual and not coerced or forced. Seems like it's aimed at not destroying the lives of a couple who are just below the age of consent and give in to biological urges, but still stamping on Epsteins.


With that in mind, how does it qualify as a law allowing paedophilia?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

This. I’m not worried for my own, they are past that age, but if they were 14 and had that happen the 24 year old rapist would have bigger probs than having to register as a sex offender, that much I can tell you.
Plus, this bill allows men who like you boys to go ahead and not worry about teaching them how great it is to allow themselves to be violated.
Proving lack of consent would get tricky.
The 17-18 thing is a problem tho, but in most cases of that that I’ve seen everyone around knows, I guess, and that hasn’t been a problem that I’ve seen, but obviously it gets messy if there’s a falling out with parents etc.
Catholic priests Boy Scout troop leader sexual predators, teachers, theres where the issue gets even worse tho.
It’s open season for those scum to rape with zero consequences now.
That’s the leftist oriented politics, everything goes, kinda eerily similar to libertarianism, just coming at it from the opposite end of the spectrum.
These people’s goal is to ruin the country.
The leftists have in the last 30 years have sold us out, opened the borders, and have been working on bankrupting us for some time.
Now just add laws allowing pedophilia, perfect for them, friends of Epstein!

Man, your level of fear does not seem rational. I live in California. The fear mongering is massively overblown. It's really not that much different than Texas , where I lived most of my life, in terms of basic life experience. It's more expensive...but that's really the biggest difference. I'm just trying to provide you some perspective. I lived in Maine, Michigan, Texas, and California - they all feel like....America. (Well...Maine is super weird, but that's another topic...)

Edit: I should add that before the Covid Pandemic, I would go into San Francisco every day for the past 5 years. It's, on the whole, a very nice and actually pretty clean city (I'd rate it cleaner than NYC & Boston in any case). I've never been bothered or been the victim of any crime. The tenderloin and Civic Center are whack and have been for the last 40 years. But the rest of the city is mostly fine. Again, the biggest problem with San Francisco is how expensive it is. I encourage you to visit, just stay away from the tenderloin like the locals.

 

[Danoff]

This. I’m not worried for my own, they are past that age, but if they were 14 and had that happen the 24 year old rapist would have bigger probs than having to register as a sex offender, that much I can tell you.
Plus, this bill allows men who like you boys to go ahead and not worry about teaching them how great it is to allow themselves to be violated.
Proving lack of consent would get tricky.
The 17-18 thing is a problem tho, but in most cases of that that I’ve seen everyone around knows, I guess, and that hasn’t been a problem that I’ve seen, but obviously it gets messy if there’s a falling out with parents etc.
Catholic priests Boy Scout troop leader sexual predators, teachers, theres where the issue gets even worse tho.
It’s open season for those scum to rape with zero consequences now.
That’s the leftist oriented politics, everything goes, kinda eerily similar to libertarianism, just coming at it from the opposite end of the spectrum.
These people’s goal is to ruin the country.
The leftists have in the last 30 years have sold us out, opened the borders, and have been working on bankrupting us for some time.
Now just add laws allowing pedophilia, perfect for them, friends of Epstein!

@EunosCosmo, the city was nice in the 90’s now it’s trash. I don’t care what consenting adults do, but 14 isn’t adult. Consenting adults? Who cares?
When my daughter was 14 if she got raped I’d be temporarily insane while beating the scumbags skull in. I’d need a good lawyer lol
Sf isn’t much different from Seattle. Car theft drug use, citizens forming up their own poop patrol to clean up the human feces on the street, very sad.

Dude... listen carefully. What is being proposed in California does not make under 18 sex legal, or acceptable. It does not enable people under 18 to give consent. I have no idea why you're still stumping about it, but that's not what it says. I explained this a few posts back. So unless you have me on your ignore list, or simply didn't read it, this is looking like you knowingly posting false information.

 

[Groundfish]

Ok ok, this was my first take on hearing this news today and my admittedly visceral reaction to it. I just disagree ten years of age within that age bracket is ‘close enough’
24-14 imo you should have to register as a sex offender imo, but I guess that’s not what society wants.
I think there’s so many more important things our legislators should be working on than screwing with statutory rape law, jmo.
There really needs to be a made a viable third political party in the USA.
Something more centrist with elements from all sides, now what would that platform look like?
What would be a platform that could unify the various ideologies in a better way?
Since I hijacked the whol thread apparently, maybe that’s a better direction to go rather than grumbling about what happens in a democracy supermajority state...

 

[Danoff]

Ok ok, this was my first take on hearing this news today and my admittedly visceral reaction to it. I just disagree ten years of age within that age bracket is ‘close enough’
24-14 imo you should have to register as a sex offender imo, but I guess that’s not what society wants.
I think there’s so many more important things our legislators should be working on than screwing with statutory rape law, jmo.
There really needs to be a made a viable third political party in the USA.
Something more centrist with elements from all sides, now what would that platform look like?
What would be a platform that could unify the various ideologies in a better way?
Since I hijacked the whol thread apparently, maybe that’s a better direction to go rather than grumbling about what happens in a democracy supermajority state...

10 years is an upper limit beyond which judges cannot use their discretion. I'm sure that the 10 years is intended to be applied to 17/27 and not 14/24. To be clear, you can still end up on a sex offender registry for a 14/24 situation, or even a 14/19 situation. Judges simply have latitude as to whether or not to use that sentence.

Lots of crimes carry maximum sentences. For example, in colorado it is a class 1 misdemeanor for someone to have sex with a 15 to 17 year old if that person is 10 years older (there are other crimes, this is just one category). The class 1 misdemeanor carries a sentence of between 6 and 18 months in jail and a fine of between $500 and $5000. This means that for some cases you could end up with a sentence of 6 months and $500, and for other cases it could be 18 months and $5000 for the same class of crime.

In California, they are saying that for that class of crime, your sentence does not have to include sex offender registration, but it could include registration. Understand? Registration is not the minimum, but it is also not outside of the maximum. It is within the range of optional sentences for judges to choose.

 

[Tornado]

That's what you think it says? How?

It wasn't written in meme form.

 

[UKMikey]

There was that case a few years back of a vigilante who got hold of the sex offenders list via Megan's Law and went around doing doorstep shootings on a couple of guys on the list before committing suicide. One of his victims was 19 and his girlfriend was four months shy of her eighteenth birthday, yet the law put him on the register.

If this reform leads to things like that not happening, then perhaps the libs-are-like-locusts criticism is a little overstated.

 

[Danoff]

There was that case a few years back of a vigilante who got hold of the sex offenders list via Megan's Law and went around doing doorstep shootings on a couple of guys on the list before committing suicide. One of his victims was 19 and his girlfriend was four months shy of her eighteenth birthday, yet the law put him on the register.

If this reform leads to things like that not happening, then perhaps the libs-are-like-locusts criticism is a little overstated.

One of the examples in the article even reversed the genders. Pointed out a circumstance of a 17 year old boy with his 19 year old girlfriend, upset parents can get the girlfriend on a registry for life.

Edit:

I guess that raises a point of potential criticism actually. By making the registry up to the judge, we're likely to see unequal application of the registry according to gender. If you're against that sort of thing, you might generally oppose judicial discretion.

Imagine a case of a high school teacher at age 27 having sex with a 17 year old student and not getting put on the registry because she's female (but still losing her job, going to jail, etc).

 

[HenrySwanson]

Imagine a case of a high school teacher at age 27 having sex with a 17 year old student and not getting put on the registry because she's female (but still losing her job, going to jail, etc).

 

[UKMikey]

I guess that raises a point of potential criticism actually. By making the registry up to the judge, we're likely to see unequal application of the registry according to gender. If you're against that sort of thing, you might generally oppose judicial discretion.

Imagine a case of a high school teacher at age 27 having sex with a 17 year old student and not getting put on the registry because she's female (but still losing her job, going to jail, etc).

If it's a straight choice between screwy judges giving paedophile teachers a pass on registration and innocent teens getting mandatory registration I'd have to choose the one that doesn't lead to kids being gunned down on the doorstep.

It'd take some special kind of negligence for a school to employ the teacher without due background checks after her being sacked for seducing a minor so I don't see it as an automatic reason to scupper the bill.

Instead of propping up bad law, let's get better judges and additional safeguards instead.

 

[Liquid]

Atlantic: Trump Says War Dead Are "Losers" & "Suckers"

I would love to know who the super close sources are.

It's a quadruple edged sword; not only is it impossible to satirise Trump, and with anonymous sources you do have to take this with a fractional grain of salt, but this article is entirely believable given his horrendous comments about John McCain.

What a sterling Commander-in-Chief. This is 1D chess.

 

[TexRex]

I would love to know who the super close sources are.

So would he.