America - The Official Thread

[Biggles]

Oh, not entirely. Leifur Eirikssen's voyages to North America were well documented in (broadly) contemporary Icelandic literature, and there's no small suggestion that European sailors knew of it in general terms. In fact Columbus might have actually learned of "Vinland" while visiting Iceland some15 years before he sailed across the ocean blue.

The USA has celebrated Leif's discovery (or possibly rediscovery) of the North American continent for over a hundred years - there's a statue of him in Boston that dates back to 1887, and the USA gifted Iceland the statue that stands outside Hallgrimskirkja in Reykjavik in 1930...

This has been a known thing for a while. What wasn't really known was where they landed, though research around 60 years ago has resolved that as probably Newfoundland.

Yeah ... but they didn't send their best. Eirikssen was a rapist, a murderer & a pillager.

 

[McLaren]

"Trump: "Get rid of the ballots and we'll have a very peaceful -- there won't be a transfer, frankly. There will be a continuation."

A US Electoral Commission chief weighed in on this yesterday.

 

[Tornado]

Well she's fired.

 

[TexRex]

"Absentee is better than universal mail-in voting," they say.

"Just request an absentee ballot if you're concerned about voting in person during the pandemic," they say.

That's all well and good if you're actually eligible for absentee voting, but I never have been in three decades as a registered voter. Despite everything going on, this year is no different.

"**** the Trumpkins," I say. It doesn't matter how blatantly deceptive and manipulative the things he says are, he shoots his load and they swallow it with a smile.

Edit: Absentee ballots still likely go through the mail. Yes, there are in-person drop-off options that limit exposure to large groups, but they are designed to go through the mail. Morons.

 

[Jezza819]

"Absentee is better than universal mail-in voting," they say.

"Just request an absentee ballot if you're concerned about voting in person during the pandemic," they say.

That's all well and good if you're actually eligible for absentee voting, but I never have been in three decades as a registered voter. Despite everything going on, this year is no different.

"**** the Trumpkins," I say. It doesn't matter how blatantly deceptive and manipulative the things he says are, he shoots his load and they swallow it with a smile.

Edit: Absentee ballots still likely go through the mail. Yes, there are in-person drop-off options that limit exposure to large groups, but they are designed to go through the mail. Morons.

I've done it once but it's probably been 25 or 30 years ago because I was going to be out of state at election time. But best I recall I just had to go down to the courthouse into this sort of documents room and filled out the ballot at this big table then sealed it in an envelope and gave it to the clerk. I don't remember how they validated I could vote absentee at the time.

 

[McLaren]

"Absentee is better than universal mail-in voting," they say.

"Just request an absentee ballot if you're concerned about voting in person during the pandemic," they say.

That's all well and good if you're actually eligible for absentee voting, but I never have been in three decades as a registered voter. Despite everything going on, this year is no different.

"**** the Trumpkins," I say. It doesn't matter how blatantly deceptive and manipulative the things he says are, he shoots his load and they swallow it with a smile.

Edit: Absentee ballots still likely go through the mail. Yes, there are in-person drop-off options that limit exposure to large groups, but they are designed to go through the mail. Morons.

Same. TMK, Texas still only allows a ballot to be mailed if you have a legitimate reason like disability.

Which is fine. Trump clearly acknowledges voting by mail may not count, and to vote in person to guarantee a vote counts, so I have no problem voting in person to do just that.

 

[Morgoth_666]

Here in PA they just plain sent me(or current resident) a request form for a mail-in ballot because "President Trump wants YOU to return this form" and "every vote matters!" It even has the option to request continued ballots each election in the future.

Maybe because the area I live in is as red as ketchup. Of course, the form to return is just a postcard they want me to write my driver's license and/or partial social security number on... maybe I'll just hand it in in person... which will maybe be better than actually voting in person?

Oh, and in case anyone is wondering, it does specifically say not to vote again if you already turned in your mail ballot.

 

[TexRex]

I've done it once but it's probably been 25 or 30 years ago because I was going to be out of state at election time. But best I recall I just had to go down to the courthouse into this sort of documents room and filled out the ballot at this big table then sealed it in an envelope and gave it to the clerk. I don't remember how they validated I could vote absentee at the time.

There are very straightforward eligibility requirements here and I have never met them. The closest I've gotten was being otherwise located, but early voting options rendered that moot.

Honestly, it hasn't been much of a concern in years past. Voting in person hadn't been a huge imposition for me and it's satisfying to perform my civic duty. I've never even sought out absentee, but I read the voter information pamphlet from cover to cover when it arrives, so I'm made aware of the requirements that way, plus the local news has said something about it almost every single day because of this year's unusual situation.

Same. TMK, Texas still only allows a ballot to be mailed if you have a legitimate reason like disability.

Age 65 or older (I'm still 17 years away), sickness or physical disability (the latter actually applies, but my doctor is another kind of ****-heel and I don't even have a handicap placard; I've sought out exception to allow for absentee voting but to no avail), or otherwise located (I was in Oregon on the 3rd for my sister's wedding one year, but as I mention above, I was able to vote early and it was a non-issue). That's it. One or more of those three things entitles one to absentee eligibility.

Which is fine. Trump clearly acknowledges voting by mail may not count, and to vote in person to guarantee a vote counts, so I have no problem voting in person to do just that.

If it was only Trump being a whiny little bitch trying desperately to retain power, fine, but this year presents other issues. I'm going to vote in person, but it's undoubtedly going to be much more of an imposition this year because of ****-heel Republicans, and it pisses me off. Is it obvious? I'd hate to think it isn't obvious.

 

[Jezza819]

There are very straightforward eligibility requirements here and I have never met them. The closest I've gotten was being otherwise located, but early voting options rendered that moot.

Honestly, it hasn't been much of a concern in years past. Voting in person hadn't been a huge imposition for me and it's satisfying to perform my civic duty. I've never even sought out absentee, but I read the voter information pamphlet from cover to cover when it arrives, so I'm made aware of the requirements that way, plus the local news has said something about it almost every single day because of this year's unusual situation.

That was the only time it's been an issue for me too. The only slight hiccup I had was earlier this year in our local elections. Last June I changed apartments in the same building. A couple of months later I got another card with my new address on it but I didn't pay that much attention to anything else it said and trashed it. My workplace is literally less than a third of a mile from where I live and my polling place is probably right at a mile away. So I can be there in no time right after work. Pull up to the polling place and the parking lot is virtually empty and this is a pretty big church so there's usually quite a few cars in the parking lot on election night. Get closer to the building and there is a sign saying this polling place has been closed and to go to a website to find your new place. Run back home and the website said my new place was still only about a mile or so away but it was in the opposite direction. Still made it in plenty of time. Turns out that card probably was telling me that but since I figured it was just a new address card I threw it away. Gotta pay closer attention to those types of things.

 

[Blitz24]

I'm going to vote. In person or by mail. I don't care. I also don't care that my state will 100% go Biden regardless of what I do.

 

[Tornado]

Well, I guess we know why he was so adamant and desperate to keep coming up with more reasons to not release his tax returns.

 

[Biggles]

Well, I guess we know why he was so adamant and desperate to keep coming up with more reasons to not release his tax returns.

You mean this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/27/politics/trump-income-taxes-new-york-times-report/index.html

Not desperate at all - after all, only losers & suckers pay taxes.

 

[UKMikey]

I ran out of free NYT articles and don't have the dough for a subscription so now seems as good a time as any to test out a recently discovered trick of using the Wayback Machine to access a free web archive of the page. Here goes...

https://web.archive.org/web/2020092...ractive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html

Maybe he's going to fight any adverse rulings all the way up to the Supreme Court he stuffed full of Republicans. Can he do that?

 

[McLaren]

You mean this:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/27/politics/trump-income-taxes-new-york-times-report/index.html

Not desperate at all - after all, only losers & suckers pay taxes.

"I pay a lot, and I pay a lot in state income taxes,"

Trump saying the same thing immediately twice without saying anything actually specific?

Oh, he's definitely lying.

 

[NotThePrez]

I ran out of free NYT articles and don't have the dough for a subscription so now seems as good a time as any to test out a recently discovered trick of using the Wayback Machine to access a free web archive of the page. Here goes...

https://web.archive.org/web/2020092...ractive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html

*Skims through article*

How in the 🤬 does he spend $70K on hair styling?! How can someone even remotely justify such an expense?!

Under any other circumstance, I'd either be impressed, or be under the impression that his stylist is ripping him off.

Maybe he's going to fight any adverse rulings all the way up to the Supreme Court he stuffed full of Republicans. Can he do that?

Can he? With how he's stacked the Supreme Court in his favor, I'd say he can.

Should be able to? Hell no, imo.

I'll read the article in full tomorrow, but I am eagerly awaiting to see how the more hardcore portions of the right tries to spin this in Trump's favor. I fell like if you pay taxes in this country, no matter which side of the aisle you're on, this news should absolutely piss you off.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Really hard-hitting journalism here from Fox.

Fitting that the two headlines immediately below the major one mention the word punt. There's even a literal football below those to really drive home the message.

 

[Biggles]

I'll read the article in full tomorrow, but I am eagerly awaiting to see how the more hardcore portions of the right tries to spin this in Trump's favor. I fell like if you pay taxes in this country, no matter which side of the aisle you're on, this news should absolutely piss you off.

Trump has broken reality. There was once a sense of what was "real" & what was "normal" within a spectrum of opinions. The last four years has thrown any shared sense of the real & normal out the window. All that's left are widely divergent & mutually incompatible views of the world. The problem is not what "the more hardcore portions of the right" will spin ... it's that there's no "mainstream right" left. Fox News, & Republicans in general, have committed so entirely to the Trumpian universe that there's no longer any vestige of common ground in the centre.

 

[05XR8]

The "Platinum Plan", because gold is so '80s.

 

[UKMikey]

How in the 🤬 does he spend $70K on hair styling?! How can someone even remotely justify such an expense?!

Under any other circumstance, I'd either be impressed, or be under the impression that his stylist is ripping him off.

I'm impressed with how completely his stylist is ripping him off.

If my cursory trawl through Twitter is any indication, rightists seem to be be spinning this as "Democrats give all our taxes to their base who don't pay taxes so Trump is still saving us money hurr durr".

Putting aside the idea that net worth doesn't depend upon what you earn and that people with negative net worth who vote Democrat are a thing, I guess if these Repubs were genuinely interested in paying less taxes they'd vote Libertarian instead. Although they wouldn't be able to end abortion that way.

 

[jjaisli]

*Skims through article*

How in the 🤬 does he spend $70K on hair styling?! How can someone even remotely justify such an expense?!...I am eagerly awaiting to see how the more hardcore portions of the right tries to spin this in Trump's favor. I fell like if you pay taxes in this country, no matter which side of the aisle you're on, this news should absolutely piss you off.

Well, remember, he was effectively a reality TV star/personality for 12 years, "playing the role" of a successful businesman. And I'm sure he had his personal stylist working on this hair multiple times a day for the camera and that person was probably employed full time during production. So the amount is not improbable. Especially if you're using it as an off set expense, such as Trump apparently did.

To me, that Trump paid next to nothing in taxes is also no great surprise. Indeed it was suspected, or at least should have been by the keen interest the NY attorney general had in the manner. And as somebody with a lot of real estate holdings, earning a lot of money one year and wracking up losses the next is also somewhat normal. Although claiming a tax refund of $73 million is staggering. And I wonder how much he DID actually pay in order to claim such a refund. It's no wonder he's under investigation. And no wonder he's desperate to stay in office.

What I'm much more interested in, and so too should the journalist investigating this, are his sources of income. Where is his money coming from. Who owes him money. And to whom does he owe money. That to me is magnitudes more important than whether the carnival barker paid $750 or $750,000 in taxes.

 

[Liquid]

Trump is a tax dodger.

Trump has been in bankruptcy court several times.

Trump papers over the cracks to give the false veneer of being a successful businessman.

Trump is a massive hypocrite.

But hey, he's "owned the libs" by dodging taxes. Bigly!

 

[UKMikey]

What I'm much more interested in, and so too should the journalist investigating this, are his sources of income. Where is his money coming from. Who owes him money. And to whom does he owe money.

And whether or not the checks are written in Cyrillic script.

 

[Imari]

What I'm much more interested in, and so too should the journalist investigating this, are his sources of income. Where is his money coming from. Who owes him money. And to whom does he owe money. That to me is magnitudes more important than whether the carnival barker paid $750 or $750,000 in taxes.

Indeed. The fact that he's a crook is no longer surprising, nor is it enough to change anything in a meaningful way.

If he were shown to be undermining the safety and security of the United States for his own personal profit, then that would seem like the last thing that might derail people from supporting him. I'm sure that QAnon would still attempt to explain it away as some sort of undercover operation to delegitimise Putin and XJP, but you'd have to think that the majority of Americans would be unhappy enough with their President being under Putin's thumb to put aside party politics for the good of the country.

It's a strange time when you hope that the leader of the most powerful military in the world is just another white collar criminal swindling millions of dollars rather than the thin edge of the wedge for turning the USA into a Russian puppet state.

 

[Joey D]

My guess is Trump's taxes are entirely kosher within our tax system. The biggest problem we have is that there are massive loopholes and if you have a good tax preparer, they can figure out ways to shift money around so you pay very little in taxes. There are also write-offs, which can drastically change your tax debt as well. While I certainly think Trump is a terrible person and a crook, I'm not sure he's breaking the law regarding taxes.

This is precisely why the US needs to simplify the tax code and make it a flat percentage across the board such as every citizen who earns an income pays 10%. No write-offs, no loophole, no anything. Or do away with income tax in general since simplifying will be incredibly difficult and instead implement a national sales tax of x%.

Seriously, I've taken a couple of classes on taxes and still have no idea how it all works. I just feed my numbers into a computer program and it tells me how much more I owe since the government taking around 30% of my income isn't enough apparently.

 

[Liquid]

In particular, writing in losses, whether genuine or fake losses, seems to be the key ingredient for paying little to no tax. As long as you make it look like you've lost money, that's all it takes. Particularly with corporate taxes.

With personal taxes, paying $750 in federal taxes for the whole year brings a lifestyle question into play; as with any classic spiv or con man, how can you live the apparent material life you obviously live when you are destitue on paper, paying fewer taxes than someone unemployed?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

With personal taxes, paying $750 in federal taxes for the whole year brings a lifestyle question into play; as with any classic spiv or con man, how can you live the apparent material life you obviously live when you are destitue on paper, paying fewer taxes than someone unemployed?

Not sure what forms of business trump is using, but if it's an LP or LLC (possibly some others) the activity can flow through to the personal return.

 

[McLaren]

My guess is Trump's taxes are entirely kosher within our tax system. The biggest problem we have is that there are massive loopholes and if you have a good tax preparer, they can figure out ways to shift money around so you pay very little in taxes. There are also write-offs, which can drastically change your tax debt as well. While I certainly think Trump is a terrible person and a crook, I'm not sure he's breaking the law regarding taxes.

This is precisely why the US needs to simplify the tax code and make it a flat percentage across the board such as every citizen who earns an income pays 10%. No write-offs, no loophole, no anything. Or do away with income tax in general since simplifying will be incredibly difficult and instead implement a national sales tax of x%.

Seriously, I've taken a couple of classes on taxes and still have no idea how it all works. I just feed my numbers into a computer program and it tells me how much more I owe since the government taking around 30% of my income isn't enough apparently.

Depending on who you ask (which party they support), they'll say it's perfectly legal b/c he used the same loopholes everyone else uses.

However, some are pointing out that none of these loopholes that allow Trump's organization to juggle the debt, still writes off the other issues being claimed. One of which, is within the next 4 years, $300+ million is going to be due from a World Leader.

Here's a list from a member of a neutral subreddit sharing that these issues should still concern people of both parties.

• Trump has basically no liquid assets. He has pretty much sold all his stock assets in order to pay off debt, and any time he got money from other sources (such as the apprentice) he used it as a down payment on loans to buy more property. Most of this property is underwater, taking out more and more debt to make payments. It would not surprise me if his net worth is close to being negative.
• He has been paying his family members "consulting fees" in the range of tens-hundreds of millions of dollars and writing those off as loses, which is pretty much the same thing his daddy did with him.
• Most of his newer businesses, i.e. the golf courses and new real estate projects since 2005 (when he went on a buying splurge with the apprentice money) have consistently lost money before depreciation (the excuse he uses) was even taken into account. His few actually profitable businesses were generally inherited from his father or are from Trump Tower (which is already paid for and as a large building in Manhatten makes good money on rents).
• There is a bunch of shady dealings with lobbyists using exorbitantly priced rooms/venues from his company for basically no reason. This is even more extensive than previously thought.
• His ass got saved by Obama's recession relief package. It allowed him to carry back loses further than two years, which netted him a much needed ~$70 million refund. In addition it allowed him to defer paying taxes on canceled loans from the recession (which are normally taxed as income) until 2014, which would have pushed his business under if he had to eat those taxes during the recession.
• The audit he is currently under is related to the above. To claim the refund from 2005-2007 he used him abadoning his stake in his Atlantic casinos to count as his loss. However in the tax code you can only do this if you receive nothing else from the business or bankruptcy, but he received a 5% stake in the restructured company after the bankruptcy, meaning all those refunds+interest would come due (~100 million dollars).

 

[Biggles]

My guess is Trump's taxes are entirely kosher within our tax system. The biggest problem we have is that there are massive loopholes and if you have a good tax preparer, they can figure out ways to shift money around so you pay very little in taxes. There are also write-offs, which can drastically change your tax debt as well. While I certainly think Trump is a terrible person and a crook, I'm not sure he's breaking the law regarding taxes.

This is precisely why the US needs to simplify the tax code and make it a flat percentage across the board such as every citizen who earns an income pays 10%. No write-offs, no loophole, no anything. Or do away with income tax in general since simplifying will be incredibly difficult and instead implement a national sales tax of x%.

Seriously, I've taken a couple of classes on taxes and still have no idea how it all works. I just feed my numbers into a computer program and it tells me how much more I owe since the government taking around 30% of my income isn't enough apparently.

There are a lot of potential issues with Trump's taxes - we don't know what exactly they are ... because he hasn't released his tax returns. Manipulating the system to his advantage may be legal, however, misrepresenting income or assets for tax &/or loan advantages is not. Then there is the issue of to whom Trump owes money & who has been bankrolling him over the years. For a president of the US to have massive foreign debts & financial obligations is problematic, at the very least.

 

[Famine]

Member when George W. Bush's public speaking abilities and mannerisms were risible?



I member.

 

[TheCracker]

I believe the biggest issue with his taxes and how much he's been paying - or not as the case appears to be, is more the moral issue. He openly flaunts a lavish gold-plated lifestyle yet has paid practically no income tax in the last 15 years. He's meant to represent the government, the people and the country yet this shows himself to be dishonest. It may well be that everything is above board from a legal perspective, but it's morally bankrupt for someone in his position to do such a thing.

I imagine he's been trying very hard to keep this covered until after the election when the public can do nothing about it.