America - The Official Thread
- Thread starter ///M-Spec
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- GTP_TheCracker
- 11,650
- Marin County
According to several people on this forum, the above is OK because Americans that live in cities (the majority) do not deserve the same level of representation that Americans that do not live in cities enjoy. There's never a reason this should be the case...apparently it is self-evident. Or to paraphrase the prosecutor in Idiocracy "just look at them!"
- 6,047
- Simcoeace
Wrong! It's because the United States is not a democracy ... it's a REPUBLIC! And in a republic people can't be trusted ... at least not the ones that live in big cities.
Seems I have been trying to make the case that the US political system is dysfunctional to M. Danoff for a couple of decades now. I think M. Danoff is gradually coming around to a similar view. To be clear, there are other countries that have more obviously logically flawed systems - I'm looking at you UK & Canada. The weird thing is, at least in Canada, the obviously logically flawed system works better than the system in the US.
A big source of the problems in the US system seems to have been created by the dramatically unequal populations of the various states. I am not familiar with the history of state creation in the US (& haven't googled it), but surely this must have been something of a political issue at the time the various states (following the original thirteen states) came into existence ? Did New York not have some objection to Wyoming (which in 1890 had a population of 62,000 compared to New York's 6,000,000) receiving equal representation in the US senate?
I've already said that if the US system was being created now, there is absolutely no way on earth that states like California, or Texas, would agree to the electoral college as it exists, or, more fundamentally, the make-up of representation in the Senate. *
* As an illustration of this, I would like to point out that in Canada, Trudeau (Pierre, not Justin) "repatriated" ie. created the Canadian constitution (& Charter of Rights & Freedoms) in 1982. The province of Quebec, representing more than 23% of the total population of Canada, objected to some provisions in the constitution &, has, to this date, never signed on to the constitution.
Danoff
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- Mile High City
It's hard to argue that what's going on in the US right now is working well.
I'm not against states standing on their own as entities that need representation (as a principle). The concept of the state in the US is a very powerful one, and I'm fine with a flat representation of that system within government. I'm not sure that it should have the stronger position within congress. And I'm even less sure that we should attempt something like that when electing the president. Certainly John Oliver is pointing out just exactly how it enables a minority to have vastly disproportionate (undemocratic) representation within all three branches of government. And that's a problem.
If I had to name which one should have more power within congress, House or Senate, I'd name House. It's not set up that way. If I could design how the President is elected, there is no way I'd advocate for anything resembling the EC. A popular vote (especially in post-civil war America) seems appropriate. For the Judicial system, if the president were elected from a popular vote, we could keep Senate confirmation. The reason being it seems prudent to have judicial appointment confirmed by whatever is least like what elects the president. So if we have the EC, let's go with the House confirming. And if we have a popular vote for the president, let's go with senate confirming.
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Please let the "quarantine process" prevent another 2 debates - even if only plausibly deniably so. I don't think we can take it.
- 20,606
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- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
Maybe a teleprompter for one of the candidates will help. Or both. I don't know.
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- NS, Canada
And this just in , Donald J Trump and his wife have Covid-19 , not totally surprising i guess.
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I mean...how long has he had it? Could he have had it during the debate? If so...how many people could have been infected from that? Biden? Trump's entire family? Chris Wallace? I'm not sure how close everyone was, but it was indoors...
- 3,308
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- Chrunch_Houston
The Trumps' whereabouts and meetings are all known, I am sure they are contact tracing.
CodeRedR51
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- United States
Damn, what a shame...
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- Simcoeace
You didn't answer my question. I understand why at the formation of the United States the various "unequal" states might have agreed to share political power at the federal level - it was a necessary expediency to bring the states together as a nation. Also, at that time the physical & even cultural separation between the states would have been more significant than it is now & power at the federal level might have seemed much less important than it does today. However ... by the time Wyoming became a state, surely the larger established states would have been well aware that creating a new state with its pair of senators would dilute their own power? Concern for the relative political influence of each state was obviously a consideration even at the founding of the United States, as something like the Three Fifths Compromise makes clear. The events leading up to the Civil War also indicate that the balance of power between the various states was considered an important issue. So ... how is it that multiple states were added to the United States without the changes to the balance of power becoming a contentious issue for the existing states?
For comparison: in Canada, Quebec has never signed on to the new constitution & Charter of Rights because it has been unwilling to surrender what it regarded as part of its "special status" within confederation. In Canada, the individual provinces - which are "unequal" in population in a similar way to the states - have a degree of autonomous political power (although less so than in the US), but at the end of the day the representatives elected to the national parliament are elected by popular vote & the federal senate (which is not elected) has virtually no power.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
At what point is he "incapacitated"? Asking for Mike Pence.
