America - The Official Thread

[Exorcet]

Yes, except I suspect the bolded won't be true for the US and NATO allies, especially if and when drones begin to replace conventional piloted fighters.

It's just too good of a grift to give up. I'm sure there will be reasons we'll end up spending 9 figures per unit on drones for a long time. You wouldn't want to use outdated drone tech would you? And put our safety at risk allowing a drone gap with China?

Historically the US hasn't been blind to numbers or cost effectiveness. The question of price effectiveness of fighters was one of the reasons behind ACEVAL/AIMVAL in the 70's and the lightweight teen series fighters, the F-16 and F-18. Even the F-35 is an example as it's a relatively low cost aircraft for what it offers. The main issue in my mind is that the US is extremely hesitant to shrink its military.

Yeah definitely. My guess is the rest of the world will have a half dozen or more different types of low cost drones that are specialized to be very good at a specific thing at a low unit cost, and they'll make hundreds/thousands of each model. Meanwhile the US/NATO world will instead have hundreds/low thousands of units of maybe two model types. They'll cost ~$50M per unit as jack of all trades drones that end up so bloated and heavy they're a master of none, all while being too expensive to lose. I'm sure we'll have cheap actually useful ones too but weapons contractors will find reasons for us to buy very expensive drones too. Probably expensive ships to put them on as well!

It's not a direct analogy I suppose but this isn't what happening with new aircraft. Russia and China appear to be following the US high/low mix with a large expensive fighter (F-22 equivalent) and a smaller cheaper one (F-35). One of the reasons for this is the accelerating pace of weapons development. Hardware is more difficult to update than software, so having many different kinds of hardware isn't really preferential to having one or two types of hardware that can be quickly adapted via software. Then again, unlike fighters drones might be cheap enough for the hardware cost to not really matter.

From what I gather the next generation of fighters will be networked weapons. The large expensive fighter may remain, but might be more of a command/sensor vehicle. It will use its superior range and sensor payload to launch and direct smaller and cheaper drones to do the actual fighting for it.

 

[andrea]

why can't trump enter the white house anymore?

Spoiler

it's FOR BIDEN

 

[Liquid]

Oregon:

Drugs decriminalised.
Still cannot pump your own petrol.
(Banned since 1951 and only permitted in certain areas since 2019!)

What an odd place.

By the by, has anyone ever met Oregonians elsewhere in the US and had a hilarious moment when they gasp at other people filling their own cars?

 

[FuriousDemon]

Oregon:

Drugs decriminalised.
Still cannot pump your own petrol.
(Banned since 1951 and only permitted in certain areas since 2019!)

What an odd place.

By the by, has anyone ever met Oregonians elsewhere in the US and had a hilarious moment when they gasp at other people filling their own cars?

WTF...had no idea about the gas station thing. Apparently Jersey is that way too.

 

[MatskiMonk]

By the by, has anyone ever met Oregonians elsewhere in the US and had a hilarious moment when they gasp at other people filling their own cars?

Took me a while to get my head around paying at the cashier before pumping any gas.

 

[Tornado]

By the by, has anyone ever met Oregonians elsewhere in the US and had a hilarious moment when they gasp at other people filling their own cars?

I had someone from Jersey ask me to help her how to do it.

 

[Liquid]

I had someone from Jersey ask me to help her how to do it.

Is there any reason why Jersey and Oregon have those laws?

It surprises me that you met someone from Jersey who didn't know; even though they have the law there, I would have imagined that being so close to Philly and NYC everyone would know how to do it anyway.

 

[TexRex]

The change to Oregon law only applies to areas of a certain population or greater. My sister lives in a very sparsely populated area (the wildfires there took her neighbor's property but not hers or the property on the other side of the one taken) and still can't self-pump, but "gorgeous" isn't a strong enough word to describe that area. Well...the way it looked before the fires and hopefully will look again.

 

[huskeR32]

I got quite the lecture from the attendant the first time I ever got gas in Oregon; I pulled right up to the pump, got out, and started filling, utterly unaware of the law.

 

[jjaisli]

Is there any reason why Jersey and Oregon have those laws?

It surprises me that you met someone from Jersey who didn't know; even though they have the law there, I would have imagined that being so close to Philly and NYC everyone would know how to do it anyway.

Retail Gasoline Dispensing Safety Act and Regulations and it became law in 1949.

Read More: Why Can't You Pump Your Own Gas in NJ? | https://wpst.com/why-cant-you-pump-your-own-gas-in-nj/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral

It's a joke. As in ridiculous. My wife, a native Californian, actually thinks it's great, especially in the winter when it's below freezing. But over the summer, I took my daughter, who is turning 15 next year, to a gas station in NY State so I could show her how to "pump gas".

 

[TB]

I got quite the lecture from the attendant the first time I ever got gas in Oregon; I pulled right up to the pump, got out, and started filling, utterly unaware of the law.

I was in Georgia for my brother's funeral and stopped at a gas station to fill up the rental car having no idea you had to go inside to pay first then the pump shuts off when you reach that amount. I stood out there for 5 minutes trying to figure out why the damn thing wouldn't start pumping before the attendant lady said something about it over the speaker then just turned the pump on for me. Guess I looked trustworthy in my Prius.

 

[Tornado]

Jersey Lefts are much more fascinating to me.

 

[Jezza819]

Oregon:

Drugs decriminalised.
Still cannot pump your own petrol.
(Banned since 1951 and only permitted in certain areas since 2019!)

What an odd place.

By the by, has anyone ever met Oregonians elsewhere in the US and had a hilarious moment when they gasp at other people filling their own cars?

Ha, my niece and her wife have lived out there for about 25 years or so. I'll have to ask her about that.

 

[Liquid]

Jersey Lefts are much more fascinating to me.

Jesus. And we get stick for roundabouts...

 

[Joey D]

Michigan Lefts are where it's at.

 

[Crash]

Oregon:

Drugs decriminalised.
Still cannot pump your own petrol.
(Banned since 1951 and only permitted in certain areas since 2019!)

What an odd place.

By the by, has anyone ever met Oregonians elsewhere in the US and had a hilarious moment when they gasp at other people filling their own cars?

Yup, just drove through Oregon and people pumped my gas. I'm used to it by now living in a neighboring state.

I have heard of Oregonians who have never left the state not know how to pump gas, but I've not actually met anyone who don't know yet.

Is there any reason why Jersey and Oregon have those laws?

Rumor is the law creates jobs, but who really knows.

The change to Oregon law only applies to areas of a certain population or greater. My sister lives in a very sparsely populated area (the wildfires there took her neighbor's property but not hers or the property on the other side of the one taken) and still can't self-pump, but "gorgeous" isn't a strong enough word to describe that area. Well...the way it looked before the fires and hopefully will look again.

Not being able to pump your own gas presents real logistical problems on a road trip. A lot of gas stations off of main Interstate freeways are unmanned once you get to late night, which effectively means they are closed. Crossing the Cascades at 11pm on a state highway, there was not a single gas station open along the route until I got to Bend (and with 1/8 of a tank left).

 

[TB]

Michigan Lefts are where it's at.

We have a couple of those in Fargo now.

 

[jjaisli]

Jersey Lefts are much more fascinating to me.

It was a bit confusing when I first moved here. NO LEFT TURNS ALLOWED. (On major roadways). But I've lived here long enough now that I'm used to it. But go out on a weekend down Route 17 or 23 or 46 or 202 and there's nearly ALWAYS some ass from NY or PA trying to make an illegal left turn and causing or almost causing an accident.

EDIT: Road signage in NJ was abhorrant in years passed but in today's world of Google Maps, nobody should have an issue with this. And in places where jug handles exist, they make it pretty obvious. Assuming one knows what they are.

 

[Blitz24]

It was a bit confusing when I first moved here. NO LEFT TURNS ALLOWED. (On major roadways). But I've lived here long enough now that I'm used to it. But go out on a weekend down Route 17 or 23 or 46 or 202 and there's nearly ALWAYS some ass from NY or PA trying to make an illegal left turn and causing or almost causing an accident.

EDIT: Road signage in NJ was abhorrant in years passed but in today's world of Google Maps, nobody should have an issue with this. And in places where jug handles exist, they make it pretty obvious. Assuming one knows what they are.

Try going on Route 4 west right near the Plaza and be astounded by how many people cannot figure out how to get on the Garden State Parkway so they dart across multiple lanes of traffic.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I think Andrew Yang knows the Democratic party's blind spot better than anyone else, and I hope more of the establishment will listen to him.

Andrew Yang Criticizes Democratic Party, Says People Think They Care 'More About Policing Cultural Issues' Than Improving Lives

edit:

On the subject of turns and road navigation, I have to say Michigan has some of the weirdest intersections I've experienced - the Michigan left

I get the idea, but it feels like it takes forever to get anywhere in MI. CA (at least coastal) is so hilly and compressed between geographic features and dense urban areas that there are basically no typical conditions - everything is unique. San Francisco has some roads that turn into straight up staircases because it's a orthogonal grid (largely) draped on grades approaching (and exceeding) 20%. It's actually a fun city to drive in, provided traffic isn't bad because of the insane topography. It takes some serious skill to pull away from a stop sign on Divisadero with a manual gearbox.

 

[TexRex]

Jersey Lefts are much more fascinating to me.

...

What?

 

[Morgoth_666]

Jersey Lefts are much more fascinating to me.

It says they are prevalent in Pennsylvania and I'm sure they must be... but I've only seen them when traveling out of state. Lots of slip roads for right turns but not for turning left, at worst I just encounter extremely long segregated traffic light cycles for lefts.

It was a bit confusing when I first moved here. NO LEFT TURNS ALLOWED. (On major roadways). But I've lived here long enough now that I'm used to it. But go out on a weekend down Route 17 or 23 or 46 or 202 and there's nearly ALWAYS some ass from NY or PA trying to make an illegal left turn and causing or almost causing an accident.

Finally, vengeance is ours!!!

 

[andrea]

I hope they record it.

 

[Shaun]

The good old Hook Turn always confuses the crap out of most visitors to Melbourne.

 

[Imari]

The good old Hook Turn always confuses the crap out of most visitors to Melbourne.

The hook turn is a marvel of intuitive simplicity compared to some of the weirdness I just read above.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The good old Hook Turn always confuses the crap out of most visitors to Melbourne.

Is it just me, or have you been absent from GTP for a long time? Regardless, good to see you back! (If you were gone)

 

[Shaun]

Is it just me, or have you been absent from GTP for a long time? Regardless, good to see you back! (If you were gone)

Yeah mate I have been, still be reading a bit but haven't posted in a long time, Just been busy in life, oh and thanks. 👍

 

[Biggles]

Jersey lefts?! Enough to make you crazy. The United States still hasn't discovered the efficacy of the roundabout.

Actually, there are newly developed road systems i the US that are introducing them. Most fascinatingly, Buffalo had some rather impressive big roundabouts on some of their grand boulevards (from back in the day when Buffalo was thriving industrial town). They removed them about 30 years back ... but put them back in a couple of years ago. They are functional AND attractive with decorative plantings.

 

[Roo]

Jesus. And we get stick for roundabouts...

Why not both?

 

[jjaisli]

Jersey lefts?! Enough to make you crazy. The United States still hasn't discovered the efficacy of the roundabout.

To be blunt, yes, when I'm back in Europe I'm always thankful that roundabouts exist. I love them. But they work in large because people grew up with them and understand how to circumnavigate them. I don't think they would work in the US, mainly because in many areas there is simply too much volume to make them effective. And also because the simple concept of those IN the circle having the right of way is too abstract a concept. A lot of people here seem to be confused with 4 way stops.