America - The Official Thread

[mustafur]

I’m not arguing with you, I’m just having a conversation. You gave an answer, I’m just illustrating how alternative interpretations are not unreasonable. I’m not saying you’re wrong.

Do you know the meaning of concern trolling?

 

[TexRex]

I didn’t allege anything

Except you did. My mistake was identifying it as an allegation of hypocrisy when it was an allegation of a double standard. They're similar but distinctly different, and yet I do occasionally confuse the two.

You said: "I agree trumps choice of words were poor, but I find it interesting that twitter would censor that tweet, but they didn’t say a peep when the IRGC threaten to “flatten Dubai” back in January when WW3 was supposedly going to happen."

The implication--and there is only one to be perceived, regardless of supposed intentions--is that Twitter is acting against one individual/group in a manner dissimilar to another individual/group.

While the implication isn't inacurate, it does disregard passage of time and events between one incident and the other. So rather than highlight a tweet from May that provoked action in contrast to one in January that didn't, it's more appropriate to highlight one also from January.



It's an unambiguous threat of violence. I'm not even going to bother with the "cultural sites" bit as it's unnecessary. It's an unambiguous threat of violence.

Twitter didn't not say a peep, rather they responded to requests for action by saying they wouldn't be taking any at that time. It's quite possible that measures were being drafted or that the incident provoked them, but none were taken.

you interpreted what i said as me alleging something you can argue with.

What even is this?

“We cannot ask for peace” strikes me as a strange choice of words.

Less strange when considered with the other three eighths of the words in that single sentence.

"We can't ask for peace without delivering justice."

Requests for peace of those protesting wrongful death and a lack of accountability are hollow when no apparent effort is made to hold individuals implicated in that death accountable.

Make it more apparent that such an effort is being made, say, by bringing in a special prosecutor who is less likely to have any kind of relationship with those implicated, and maybe requests for peace are more likely to be considered. These subsequent requests falling on deaf ears may also be telling of the motivations of those engaged in inappropriate, violent protest.

I think the response was pretty tactful. Her characterizing the death of Floyd as murder in the absence of a more complete grasp of the events seems less so.

Is she encouraging the unrest and destruction?

Could be. Calling for a special prosecutor may suggest not.

Call me crazy, but I am starting to feel like America is under attack tonight.

Call me crazy, but anyone else and I'd assume this is in response to the events transpiring in Minnesota. You being you, however, has me wondering if Twitter "censored" yet another of Trump's tweets.

Understanding the intent of her post would maybe be easier for you if you didn't remove half of the quote to miss the context.

Oh come one now, it wasn't half. One more word and it would have been half. But then he actually omitted 27 of 49 keystrokes. Yes, I counted. It's very late and I can't sleep.

 

[PeterJB]

We had similar riots to this in London in 2011 or 2012. A black gang member and drug dealer named Mark Duggan was shot dead by police, I believe after trying to wrestle the gun off the officer. There was a small-scale protest by friends and family but within a day or two most of Tottenham was up in flames. It was obvious that 90% of the rioters couldn't give a rat's ass about Duggan and just wanted to smash some windows. There's controversy around stop-and-search but otherwise we don't have much of a notorious history of police brutality almost exclusively towards blacks.

 

[McLaren]

I'm still having a hard time figuring out why so many people think looting and burning buildings were the right course of action. Those businesses largely employed black workers and those houses/apartment buildings largely housed black residents. I feel like it's a bit counterproductive to burn your community down because it's only going to hurt the community as a whole. I've also asked the question about black business owners in the area. Thankfully, someone found a news broadcast that shows what it's like:



Here's a guy who invested his entire life savings into his business and now it's ruined. The looters even tried to steal his safe while the news crew was in the restaurant. I can almost guarantee that business owner doesn't care about injustices at this very moment and is probably wondering where he's going to get the money to keep his business afloat.

I know people are saying "well kneeling didn't work", but I really feel like there's probably some other steps between kneeling and burning an innocent bystander's business. It does look like several black business owners are fighting back though. There are several videos of them standing in front of their business, which have signs that say "Black Owned Business" on them, with guns. I can't post the videos due to language, but if you're interested they're several on YouTube and on Reddit.

I think nearly all people protesting share this mindset, and out of the all the previous, similar instances in the last 20 years, they've been the most vocal & condemning of looters lately. They're fully aware looters are nothing more than ammunition for the opposing groups to use against them & causes the general public to sway away.

Tonight in Dallas, a group marched down Deep Ellum (which has taken years to turn around & become a safe neighborhood for younger groups) protesting. As soon as business windows started being smashed, the group turned towards it shouting, "They're not with us!" and several people chasing them away. This unfortunately, forced a tear gas response shortly after.

 

[Touring Mars]

It would be interesting to see a demographic breakdown of who the looters are. I’m particularly curious about the ratio of American citizens vs non American citizens.

“Black Somali brothers!”

Sorry, but who loots a 6ft vanity mirror... or a couple of lamps?!

 

[Dotini]

We had similar riots to this in London in 2011 or 2012. A black gang member and drug dealer named Mark Duggan was shot dead by police, I believe after trying to wrestle the gun off the officer. There was a small-scale protest by friends and family but within a day or two most of Tottenham was up in flames. It was obvious that 90% of the rioters couldn't give a rat's ass about Duggan and just wanted to smash some windows. There's controversy around stop-and-search but otherwise we don't have much of a notorious history of police brutality almost exclusively towards blacks.

Would you say that, in general and including Irish, the UK is a successful social experiment? The current thinking is the US is not.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v..._wing_of_democratic_party_must_be_fought.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v..._white_liberal_hillary_clinton_supporter.html

 

[phillgt2002]

Its gotten to the point where discussing these riots and protests is useless.

People are talking about these protests all over, but I really don’t give a **** anymore, even after Ferguson, which happened a few towns over from me.

The only thing I take away is that the US is just a rotten place. I don’t blame people living here for wanting to burn down things in reaction to mistreatment.

 

[PeterJB]

Would you say that, in general and including Irish, the UK is a successful social experiment? The current thinking is the US is not.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v..._wing_of_democratic_party_must_be_fought.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v..._white_liberal_hillary_clinton_supporter.html

That depends what the "experiment" is. Our race relations are certainly better than the US. And compared to most of the world we live in relative harmony, prosperity and safety. It's not perfect but things are pretty good here.

 

[TexRex]

I don’t blame people living here for wanting to burn down things in reaction to mistreatment.

But to burn down things of those who have nothing to do with that mistreatment and indeed likely belong to those who have much more uncommon with those who have been mistreated, possibly even having been mistreated as well?

Violence against the innocent is not the way you protest violence against the innocent, especially when they're very likely the exact same innocent.

 

[McLaren]

I don’t blame people living here for wanting to burn down things in reaction to mistreatment.

Ah yes, KB Balla and others, nothing more than sacrificial lambs to fight injustice.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/scores-bar-mpls-riot-rebuild?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=p_cp share-sheet&fbclid=IwAR32OSJm_ILC4VNDehAXOPRlj1Dm9ics4CHt7Sc9XVRNBtN1H8uQ1N2-17M

 

[Dotini]

That depends what the "experiment" is. Our race relations are certainly better than the US. And compared to most of the world we live in relative harmony, prosperity and safety. It's not perfect but things are pretty good here.

That's good a point. I hadn't considered the US, or the UK, might not really be an experiment except in an allegorical or metaphysical sense.

 

[TexRex]

Ah yes, KB Balla and others, nothing more than sacrificial lambs to fight injustice.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/scores-bar-mpls-riot-rebuild?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=p_cp share-sheet&fbclid=IwAR32OSJm_ILC4VNDehAXOPRlj1Dm9ics4CHt7Sc9XVRNBtN1H8uQ1N2-17M

Now see, that perfectly illustrates the fact that there are some really beautiful people in this country. I also hope GFM got some hefty donations themselves for availing their services.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Chicago Mayor and IL Governor's response to Trump tweet

Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot blasted President Trump and invoked an expletive Friday in response to his tweets after three days of protests in Minneapolis, Minn., when he called the protesters "THUGS" and tweeted that "when the looting starts, the shooting starts."

“Donald Trump’s comment last night was profoundly dangerous,” Lightfoot said Friday during a news conference to discuss plans to reopen the city. “And we must stand firm in solidarity and say this is totally unacceptable no matter who is the speaker."

“He wants to show failures on the part of Democratic local leaders, to throw red meat to his base," she added, according to WGN9. "His goal is to polarize, to destabilize local government and inflame racist urges. We can absolutely not let him prevail. And I will code what I really want to say to Donald Trump. It’s two words. It begins with F and it ends with U.”

CHICAGO, Ill. (WTVO) — Illinois Gov. JB Prtizker criticized President Donald Trump’s response to the death of George Floyd at his daily briefing on Friday, calling the president a “racist, misogynist, homophobe.”

“His tweets, his reaction, his failure to address the racism that exists in America, his stoking of the flames [of white supremacy] in subtle and not-so-subtle ways is completely unacceptable. It’s reprehensible, in fact,” Pritzker said.

“I cannot imagine the rage and the fear that must be felt by a black American watching what happened to George Floyd,” he continued.

Pritzker said, “Even when so many of us have a feeling of ‘it’s time for major change,’ somehow, for black America, it never really comes.”

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/chicago-mayor-f-u-trump-george-floyd-minneapolis-looting-tweet

https://www.mystateline.com/news/li...ois-coronavirus-briefing-for-friday-may-29th/

 

[Lain]

"Most ominous weapons", eh? What is it, a Death Star? Death Note? Infinity Stones? Run-of-the-mill raygun pew pew?

I'm sure the protesters are quaking in their boots.

 

[DesertPenguin]

"We put the young ones on the front line"
"Good practice"

1) Front Line? This isn't a war.
2) Good Practice? Stop looking for an excuse to use your pew pew rifle

 

[HenrySwanson]

We had similar riots to this in London in 2011 or 2012. A black gang member and drug dealer named Mark Duggan was shot dead by police, I believe after trying to wrestle the gun off the officer. There was a small-scale protest by friends and family but within a day or two most of Tottenham was up in flames. It was obvious that 90% of the rioters couldn't give a rat's ass about Duggan and just wanted to smash some windows. There's controversy around stop-and-search but otherwise we don't have much of a notorious history of police brutality almost exclusively towards blacks.

We don't have much of a history compared to the US, but it's still making headlines to this day

 

[TexRex]

"Most ominous weapons", eh? What is it, a Death Star? Death Note? Infinity Stones? Run-of-the-mill raygun pew pew?

I'm sure the protesters are quaking in their boots.

But he couldn't be bothered to thank taxpayers who foot the bill for his protection so that he doesn't have to. That's what entitlement looks like, folks.

I'm also concerned by the agents who are "just waiting for action." I suspect there aren't any--the Secret Service likely wanting to eliminate a trigger happy element from their ranks--but acknowledging that would undermine the threatening rhetoric.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

but acknowledging that would undermine the threatening rhetoric

Sounds like a kid playing with GI Joes

This makes me question the intent of his previous clarification tweet. It was probably BS.

 

[TexRex]

Sounds like a kid playing with GI Joes

This makes me question the intent of his previous clarification tweet. It was probably BS.

*gasp*

Trump? BS? Perish the thought!

 

[McLaren]

The only thing he got right was the professionalism of the Secret Service (& the metro police) who stand guard. But, it's mainly due to them seeing protests all the time. This is from yesterday, not a whole lot of aggressive reaction by the officers other than to get their hands up as they approached and put the fences back up.


That being said, it seems pretty risky to antagonize Secret Service members. I'd read in the past that they have much more leeway reacting to civilians if it's in the interest of protecting the POTUS.

 

[Joey D]

So there are now riots, that include destruction of property and the harming of people, in NYC, LA, Oakland, Atlanta, Detroit, Richmond, and Portland.

Apparently in Portland rioters even broke into a police station and set it on fire. CNN's HQ was vandalized in Atlanta, prompting the mayor to speak out with MLK's daughter Bernice, TI, and Killer Mike. In Detroit people were shot in the mayhem, not by police, but by other citizens.

This is what bad leadership looks like. Trump is too busy bitching about social media to address the nation in any meaningful manner. The other politicians in DC seem to be off in lala land too since I'm not seeing many Congresspeople trying to restore order. When its government employees who are in the wrong, the government needs to step in and do something.

This is going to end with the National Guard using extreme force to bring the situation under control and on exaserbate the problem.

Seriously, mass protests are fine and should be happening all across the nation. Destroying property, killing people, and acting out of control isn't acceptable. I think there's enough attention on the issue now that cities can quit being burned.

 

[DesertPenguin]

The problem is that while there are people genuinely there to peacefully protest, there are many others there specifically for the purpose of rioting and looting, regardless of the cause. It only takes one guy to break a window and it all goes downhill from there.

 

[Lain]

The problem is that while there are people genuinely there to peacefully protest, there are many others there specifically for the purpose of rioting and looting, regardless of the cause. It only takes one guy to break a window and it all goes downhill from there.

Pretty much. And there's almost always going to be these opportunists looking to take advantage of the chaos, never mind slightly more conspiratorial thinking that the police might be the ones intentionally instigating things so that the protesters can be painted as the bad guys and the root issue can be swept back under the rug.

 

[andrea]

Comparison:

 

[FerrariF1GT]

The problem is that while there are people genuinely there to peacefully protest, there are many others there specifically for the purpose of rioting and looting, regardless of the cause. It only takes one guy to break a window and it all goes downhill from there.

Unfortunately, some people (probably a microscopic minority, but social media might tell otherwise) think that the protests (and Floyd's death, by extension) bring about an excuse for 'revolution.' What the officers did to Floyd is indefensible; the officers need to be held accountable and our leaders must ensure that events like Floyd's death do not happen again by passing the appropriate legislation, but I understand that change is not an easy ride and it doesn't happen overnight; it takes time, hard work, dedication, sacrifice, leadership, and keeping your cool (the rioters don't have that last trait); it's a recurring theme in history. King, Gandhi and many others had to work hard for years to make change happen. They all faced plenty of opposition and setbacks along the way, and they didn't give up in the face of that. I have a feeling that some of these rioters and looters have the misguided belief that they're starting a revolution and that such revolution is effortless and will be backed by a vast majority. Destroying and stealing stuff and blaming 'the system' isn't going to make change come any sooner.

I think that the vast majority of protesters are in fact peaceful (and the purposes for protesting are entirely justified) and the media is propping up doom and gloom (or worse, justifying violence) for clicks/advertisers. At the same time, it's important to see the many sides of this situation. That doesn't justify the looting and riots, though because they never should be justified.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Found this video in my YouTube recommendations and I think it's spot-on. Thoughts?

 

[Dotini]

Found this video in my YouTube recommendations and I think it's spot-on. Thoughts?

With the pandemic producing millions of unemployed and trillions in debt, I expect a strong and lasting move to the left on the economic scale. I think it would take an amazingly strong and fast recovery to stop this movement. There's just too much inequality and too few good jobs to maintain a strong middle class.

 

[Joey D]

Ya, doing this in Salt Lake City make total sense:

The people who did this also stole the weapons out of the car along with tear gas. The officers managed to get away safely.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

I believe that when all is known about these riots, it will come out that they were coordinated by a group of radical leftist organizations. The plan was made and sat in wait for the right opportunity.

 

[Lain]

I believe that when all is known about these riots, it will come out that they were coordinated by a group of radical leftist organizations. The plan was made and sat in wait for the right opportunity.

That’s what they’ll say, at least.

In fact they’re already saying it before they actually know it: