AMT (Alternate Minimum Tax)

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Danoff

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It's tax season, and I'm finding out for the first time about a little provision in our tax code that is apparently going to start impacting more and more middle class Americans (I'm only 24, I haven't had much tax experience). It doesn't happen to affect me this year, but I thought I would share it with you.

It's called the Alternate Minimum Tax. It's another way of calculating your taxes that you have to go through. You basically calculate up your taxes two ways - the regular way with all of your deductions (ehem government meddling) or the other way in which you get no deductions and there's a marriage penalty.

And guess what... you get to pay whichever one is higher .

The alternate minimum tax gives single people 40k in standard deductions (so if you make less than 40k/year you don't have to worry about it). It gives married people something like 58k in standard deducations (bam marriage penalty right there). And then what? After you've subtracted your standard deductions from your income you calculate the tax at 26% of the rest. (Oh I'm pretty sure you get to take pre-tax retirement savings off first, since you'll owe tax on that later)

If you owe more by calculating your taxes this way then you get to pay this number. If it turns out to be less then don't worry about it.

What I think is interesting about this is that it's a flat tax. I like that. No deductions, I like that too. In fact, I propose that we eliminate the OTHER way of calculating income tax - you know - deducting your mortgage interest, deducting your charitable donations, deducting your gambling losses (from the winnings of course) and the car mileage that you used for work (at like 30 cents/mile). Deduct deduct deduct - everything the government says you SHOULD have been spending your money on.

So, a little history. The AMT was invented like 80 years ago. Back then, millionaires (that was a lot of money back then) were deducting 100% of their income. Rather than do the obvious (eliminate deductions) they developed this method to increase taxes on the rich. Since then it's barely been used from what I understand. Recently, however, after inflation has taken its toll over many years and more married couples are working and the tax rates have started coming back down - more and more middle class people are having to pay the AMT.

Anyway I thought it was interesting, what do you think about the AMT? Did you know about it?
 
All I knew about AMTs was:

* It's an extra tax some people pay on top of their income tax
* It was to prevent people with unusally high incomes from using special tax benefits/incentives to pay little or no taxes at all

Fun fact: Taxes are so confusing... so many forms to fill... :boggled:

Stocks [paper] are SO much easier to handle. :sly:
 
Till you sell them and get nailed for capital gains... or you have to record each and every friggin' transaction your mutual funds make on your 1040.
 
Duke
Till you sell them and get nailed for capital gains...

You can always offset capital gains with a capital loss, though. :dopey:

or you have to record each and every friggin' transaction your mutual funds make on your 1040.

That's why I don't deal with mutual funds... I spoke to Dan about this earlier -- too complicated. :ill:
 
I'm still offsetting using unclaimed capital losses from a few years ago... but the year before the market tanked I did some reshuffling and got creamed with a $28,000 capital gains tax bill!
 
Duke
I'm still offsetting using unclaimed capital losses from a few years ago... but the year before the market tanked I did some reshuffling and got creamed with a $28,000 capital gains tax bill!

:ill:

I can only imagine what that must've been like -- opening the letter in the mail. My first reaction would have been "hmmm... must be a typo!" :scared:

$28,000 in capital gains?! :crazy: That's another car or 3 (in my case)! :eek:

Lucky for me, I started out with a small of amount of money -- so the capital gains I DO have will be relatively small in comparison to value of the shares I have. Either way, I've been giving all of my tax forms to my parents (who then FWD to friends who do taxes). I'll learn to do them on my own within the next few years, but for now... I'd rather leave it to the experts.
 
Well, I had a small amount of a local bank stock that I had inherited as a teenager in about 1980. But the local bank got bought out by a bigger bank, they converted the shares with a bonus, then the new shares split, then an even bigger bank bought it out, and they converted the new shares with a bonus, then the new new shares split, and... 20 years later, from a cost basis of almost nothing, it was worth quite a little bit.

It was worth the capital gains to diversify, though, because the next year the particular bank stock tanked and we would have been wiped out. As it's been we've taken quite a hit. We did have to seel some additional stuff to cover the surprise CG, though.

That's why usually I lend the government free money by underwitholding. I'd rather have a cushion against surpirises, even at the cost of whatever I might earn on that money through the year.
 
Duke, that's hurting bud. As far as the capital gains taxes. I'm very much against them. It's like a penalty for success! :ouch:
 
Duke, that's hurting bud. As far as the capital gains taxes. I'm very much against them. It's like a penalty for success!

It's considered a source of income - and income is taxed. If your profession is stock trading, why should you be exempt from income tax?
 
your deducations (ehem government meddling) or the other way in which you get no deducations

What the hell are deducations? My mom just had a hissy fit after reading what you said I'm not sure if you mean now...
 
danoff
It's considered a source of income - and income is taxed. If your profession is stock trading, why should you be exempt from income tax?

Oh I don't know -- maybe pay for tuition? :sly: :D

Greg
What the hell are deducations? My mom just had a hissy fit after reading what you said I'm not sure if you mean now...

A tax deduction or tax-deductible expense, is an item which is subtracted from gross income in order to calculate the total taxable income.

Example: In the year 2005 you make a total of $70,000 CDN. That means that you have $70k of taxable income. If you buy something for $2,000 that is "tax deductible", your total taxable income becomes $68,000. This way, you pay less taxes overall.
 
What the hell are deducations? My mom just had a hissy fit after reading what you said I'm not sure if you mean now...

Well aside from the fact that I spelled it incorrectly for some reason, Brian is right.

A deduction is money that you spent that doesn't count toward your taxable income.

Why did your mom throw a hissy fit?
 
danoff
A deduction is money that you spent that doesn't count toward your taxable income.

Such as my tuition reimbursement from work, although only up to $5200 a year or something like that is allowed before they start taxing you. :grumpy: I have to admit, my dad still does my taxes, hes an accountant, he likes that kind of thing :)
 
danoff
It's considered a source of income - and income is taxed. If your profession is stock trading, why should you be exempt from income tax?
Because I had to pay a high rate of taxes on about $200,000 worth of income that it took 20 years to generate. That's only $10,000 a year, which would have made a much smaller impact on my tax bill.

I don't have any more problem paying CG taxes than I do income taxes; I just theink the system is flawed.
 
Duke
Because I had to pay a high rate of taxes on about $200,000 worth of income that it took 20 years to generate. That's only $10,000 a year, which would have made a much smaller impact on my tax bill.

I don't have any more problem paying CG taxes than I do income taxes; I just theink the system is flawed.

Big time

I had a job once where I only got paid once a month. I actually paid MORE in taxes then if I got paid two or three times a month. it was so ridiculous. I really hate the way our income tax is setup. You make too much money, they penalize you, you get too much at once, they penalize you, you get a hard earned commission or bonus, they punish you. Just really weak.
 
Because I had to pay a high rate of taxes on about $200,000 worth of income that it took 20 years to generate. That's only $10,000 a year, which would have made a much smaller impact on my tax bill.

Yea, that's a problem. One that could be gotten rid of if we went to a flat tax system.
 
I hate the AMT also. But, I don't mind paying it. I see more and more people having to pay it and it's starting to get people talking about introducing a flat tax rate and getting rid of the IRS. But, I like the IRS and the tax laws. Because I'm able to use them to pay less than what others, who earn less than me, pay. Why hasn't the AMT increased over the years? It was writen long ago to stop wealthy people from not paying any taxes. But, this was a long time ago. So, why haven't the IRS allowed the AMT increase for inflation? Idiots. The IRS are filled with idiots. No big surprise, eh?
 

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