Are Fictional Courses Good for the Gran Turismo Series?

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Original GT Courses are the BEST.

Trial Mountain, Deep Forest, Red Rock Valley, Rome Night, SS R11 underpass and overapss, Grand Valley, Midfield, Grundenwald, El Capitain, Rome Day, Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, Autumn Ring, Complex String... Just to mention my personal favorites.

Amen


One thing, not directly related, but I think it's time to put more life into the tracks :

Moving clouds, maybe birds and airplanes, trees and grass moving in the wind, people wandering around. City courses in cities that actually feel alive ( moving lights in the background, streets and highways at the horizon filled with cars ( at night even moving lights that simulate cars would do the deal ) and people ).

I realized this when playing Midnight Club LA and NfS Undercover. Whereas M. LA is clearly a step into the right direction, NfS feels like a freaking ghost town.
And as beautiful as they are, the same goes for GT5P imo. It's like racing in Stephen King's Langoliers...
 
Fictional Tracks are good, as long as the implementation is good.

The great thing about fantasy tracks is that you don't have to worry about the requirements and restrictions imposed by real-life racing on real-life racing tracks. You can basically make them any way you like. And when the person designing the track loves driving, the road they design flows more organically and naturally than any real road can.

Tell me, can you name a single real-life track, from any racing game, that feels more natural or intuitive than Trial Mountain or Deep Forest? Can any real-life corner match the awe-inspiring dive down in to the tunnel in Midfield Reverse? (my favorite corner of any Gran Turismo game).

Some fantasy tracks based on real-life locations don't work that well for me... New York for example... well... I got used to it, eventually... or Seoul... but where PD had space to take liberties with reality, like in El Capitan, the Grand Canyon or Eiger... the results are epic... hell... If GT5 has Eiger and all three layouts of El Capitan, I won't mind one bit if they don't have the Nurb...

The Nurb could almost be a fantasy track. It was designed before all tracks had to be five miles wide and lined with gravel traps another five miles deep. It's a wonderful track... but not many modern racetracks are like that.

And that's why fantasy tracks should stay. They provide a middle ground where even regular cars are "fun". On tracks like Capitan or Midfield, even the slowest of cars will feel epic. On a modern track like Tsukuba, they feel lost in a sea of concrete.
 
Fictional courses are good as they give us the chance to drive courses that would never be built in real life. Real life courses, with a few exceptions, are safe, wide tracks, and are full of chicanes to slow the cars down. This makes most of them boring, (or not as good as their previous, unchicaned, original versions).

A fictional track can have rocky outcrops right next to the racing line. They can have nearly flat out chicanes that make you fly headlong into a wall if you hit the kerb at the wrong angle. Trial Mountain, Deep Forest, El Capitan etc would all be laughed at by a health and safety committee if they were designed and built now for real, but they are interesting to drive because those "dangerous" features.
 
Original GT Courses are the BEST.

Trial Mountain, Deep Forest, Red Rock Valley, Rome Night, SS R11 underpass and overapss, Grand Valley, Midfield, Grundenwald, El Capitain, Rome Day, Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, Autumn Ring, Complex String... Just to mention my personal favorites.

No Apricot Hill......I loved that track. But one of my favorites above was Midfield, You can see the power of the car while coming up the hill and how it handles on the turn.
 
Fictional courses are good as they give us the chance to drive courses that would never be built in real life. Real life courses, with a few exceptions, are safe, wide tracks, and are full of chicanes to slow the cars down. This makes most of them boring, (or not as good as their previous, unchicaned, original versions).

A fictional track can have rocky outcrops right next to the racing line. They can have nearly flat out chicanes that make you fly headlong into a wall if you hit the kerb at the wrong angle. Trial Mountain, Deep Forest, El Capitan etc would all be laughed at by a health and safety committee if they were designed and built now for real, but they are interesting to drive because those "dangerous" features.

Thats why I would like as a new real circuit the TT course, if you think the Ring is Epic it pales in comparison to the 37.73 mountain course!

Edit: Just want to point out I do not realistically expect this but you can dream!!
 
I am not a huge fan on the originals but I do like them. in GT2 I loved the Tahiti short course (I forget the official name), Rome short, seattle short. In GT3 my favorite was Midfield raceway, I love coming up the hill after the tunnel in a real fast car just 'feeling' it get light and even lift the front wheels off as it comes over the crest.

My all time favorite type tracks though is real life tracks that were originally country roads, like Nurburgring and thats why I hope Bathurst in included. I would also love a tight touge curcuit, I loved weaving through the narrows of Citta di Aria.

Modern curcuits are very very boring and I generally don't like them.


Thats why I would like as a new real circuit the TT course, if you think the Ring is Epic it pales in comparison to the 37.73 mountain course!

I would love it!
 
It would be the greatest thing ever made, I grew up going to races with Joey Dunlop so the place holds a special place in my heart, try the TT superbikes games!!

(Sorry for the OT)
 
they have to carry on with the fantasy courses one of my favourires was complex string they put in GT3 which had so many corners it was fun and a good way to test the car out.
(I wish they put it in GT5-sorry had to add my 2cents)
 
Quickly... another advantage of a course that's original- you can modify it to make it more interesting. Grand Valley Speedway in GT4 is the most fantastic Grand Valley in ANY GT and worlds better than the GT3 version. I even recommended the chicane coming out of the final tunnel be made a bit easier and more loose than past GTs.

I must disagree with you on this one. I cannot stand the dumbed down GT4 Grand Valley but the GT3 version is my personal favourite track.

Why not have both versions though? After all they had '80's, '90's and 2005 versions of Fuji so why not '90's and 2005 versions of fantasy courses as well.
 
Fictional courses are good as they give us the chance to drive courses that would never be built in real life. Real life courses, with a few exceptions, are safe, wide tracks, and are full of chicanes to slow the cars down. This makes most of them boring, (or not as good as their previous, unchicaned, original versions).

A fictional track can have rocky outcrops right next to the racing line. They can have nearly flat out chicanes that make you fly headlong into a wall if you hit the kerb at the wrong angle. Trial Mountain, Deep Forest, El Capitan etc would all be laughed at by a health and safety committee if they were designed and built now for real, but they are interesting to drive because those "dangerous" features.

Totally agree with Daan here.

The fictional circuits are fantastic, There is nothing better than racing through a corner and having a rockface next to you, it all adds the feel by putting you on the edge of your seat. Too many of the real tracks offer to many get out clauses if you make a mistake, which for me dulls the senses.
 
I think no one should be disappointed, as I expect all the fantasy tracks to return in GT5. I was going to mention Grindelwald in my post, but couldn't remember if it was a fictional course or not. Grindelwald and Red Rock Valley are as epic as any GT track, and all of them should be included, along with as many real life courses as Kaz and the lads can get their laser scanners into. And heck, more fantasy tracks would be even better.
 
Grindelwald is fantasy. I actually prefer it a bit over Eiger, as the uphill sections through the houses is much more challenging.
 
-> Fictional courses/tracks is what Gran Turismo is all about. In GT1, all the tracks were featured was original creation absolutely no real life tracks. But as time goes on, these tracks/courses were either replaced, re-designed, or never to be seen again. :(

-> Developing new fictional courses are most welcome addition to GT5. However, hopefully before they do that; they should look back and observe these memorable tracks they created in the past.

-> Here are few examples on what I'm trying to describe:

High Speed Ring ver.GT1/2 (fate: no show in GT3; redesigned in GT4)
high_speed_ring_165x168.gif


Special Stage R11 ver.GT1 (fate: no show in GT2; redesigned in GT3)
ssr11_165x168.gif


Special Stage R11 ver.GT3 (fate: killed off)
ssr11_165x168.gif


Test Course ver.GT1/2 (fate: redesigned in GT3)
test_course_165x168.gif


Grand Valley East/Speedway ver.GT1/2 (fate: East no show in GT3; Speedway redesigned in GT3)
grand_valley_east_165x168.gif
grand_valley_165x168.gif


Grand Valley Speedway ver.GT3 (fate: redesigned in GT4)
grand_valley_165x168.gif


Motorsports Land (fate: killed off)
motorsports_land_165x168.gif


Complex String (fate: killed off; replaced by Nurb-North?)
complex_string_165x168.gif


Grindelwald (fate: killed off or replaced by Eiger Nordwand?)
grindelwald_165x168.gif


Rome Short Course/Circuit (fate: Short Course killed off in GT3; Circuit killed off in GT4)
rome_short_165x168.gif
rome_165x168.gif


Rome Night (fate: killed off; replaced by GeorgeV?)
rome_night_165x168.gif


Seattle Short Course (fate: killed off)
seattle_short_165x168.gif


Green Forest Roadway (fate: killed off)
green_forest_165x168.gif


Smokey Mountain (GT3); North/South (GT2) (fate: killed off; replaced by Cathedral Rocks Trail 1/2?)
smokey_mountain_165x168.gif
smokey_mountain_north_165x168.gif
smokey_mountain_south_165x168.gif


Pike's Peak Hill Climb/Downhill (fate: killed off or replaced by Grand Canyon in GT4)
pikes_peak_165x168.gif


Tahiti Road (fate: killed off)
tahiti_road_165x168.gif


Tahiti Dirt Route 3 (fate: killed off)
tahiti_dirt_route_165x168.gif


Tahiti Maze ver.GT2 (fate: redesigned in GT3)
tahiti_maze_165x168.gif


Tahiti Circuit (fate: killed off)
tahiti_165x168.gif


Red Rock Valley (fate: killed off)
red_rock_valley_165x168.gif


Mid-Field Raceway ver.GT2/3 (fate: redesigned in GT4)
mid-field_165x168.gif


^ I also do hope the they should create more one-way tracks such as Pike's Peak.

haruna.gif


:boggled:
 
I asked this question a year or so ago and most people were happy to see fictional courses so long as they were believable in their design and layout. I'm not 100% sure I just want real World tracks in GT5 as most real World tracks can be very boring.

Creating something new is a great opportunity to fulfil a childish fantasy. How many of us have drawn a outline in the back of a text book at school of a race track that exists only in our mind?

That's a great post Vanishing Boy. I had forgotten so many of those tracks it's embarrassing. mmmmmm.....................Pikes Peak :D
 
Of the ones you mentioned, some definitely have to return.



* Motorsports Land would be a good drifting course, in addition to a nice small car course. Then again, you COULD say that MotorLand was the successor to Motorsports Land.

* Grindelwald would be a great compliment to Eiger Nordwand. Also imagine taking your favorite recent cars around scenic Grindelwald.

* Italy has three "M" tracks that I'd be happy to see in GT5 (though this is the wrong thread to do so)- Monza, Mugello, and Misano. If you can't get any or all of them, then surely bring back Rome Circuit. Rome-Night was simply a waste of disc space as you rarely get to race it. This was a perfectly-fine course. Why PD didn't give you more action around Rome-Night is beyond me. At least have it as "Rome Circuit A" and "Rome Circuit B" rather than just leaving Rome-Night for dead.

* Tahiti Road was fairly simple. Your French Nationals action took place in Tahiti in GT2, since Tahiti is a French territory. Tahiti looks fantastic in pictures. I wonder what a GT5 version would be like in GT5.

* Red Rock Valley Speedway was a track I slowly grown to like, especially when playing GT2 again. It's essentially two ovals linked together, yet still a competitive race track.

* Gran Turismo 2 had a lot of random roads for some of the license tests in GT2. If it's all part of one big circuit, why not make THAT into a GT course?

* Now for an all-rally section. Gran Turismo 2's version of "Smokey Mountain [North]" was much better than GT3's version, and GT2's "Smokey Mountain South" was pretty bland. Same went for the alright "Green Forest Roadway." Tahiti Circuit should have never left. That is a FUN course. If they can bring back and improve Pikes Peak Hill Climb, I'd be cool with that.



This would be that "you have too much time on your hands, John" part of this post. :)

One of the reasons you pursue real-life tracks is because they offer an experience that no game can emulate or imitate. That's even if you take a real-life course and add your own twist (like Speediapolis Ring in Enthusia) to it. I'm not saying go for more real race tracks, but I guess I'm on the standpoint of an even balance of real and fictional courses. I say PD should try to make some more original courses including completely fictional ones (like High-Speed Ring, Trial Mountain, MotorLand, Apricot Hill, etc.). Imagine PD makes a completely new original course exclusively for GT5 that harnesses what the PS3 is capable of graphically. Not many are fans of street courses, but I'm not forgetting the street courses. If Special Stage Route 11 returns, I'd be interested in two different routes based on GT1 and GT3. Maybe modify them a bit. For me, I wouldn't mind seeing the GT1 route, only making a temporary tire wall chicane rather than the 90-degree complex under the start/finish straight.

I said that you can improve on original circuits, especially those you make yourself. Do any of you ever pay attention to certain details in games if and when a sequel is developed? Think of Special Stage Route 5 in GT4. Ever noticed all the buildings under construction for that track? Imagine if those buildings were constructed fully with the next GT. Imagine if there were more trees around Deep Forest than GT4's version that left most fans disappointed. I even want to see light systems around tracks just for the prospect of racing courses in dark conditions (24 Hours of Grand Valley, anyone?). I would even like seeing Deep Forest return to the evening setting or maybe a night setting (but PLEASE provide flood lights to light things up properly!). Bring back classic tracks and improve upon them.



Random gibberish over. Have a great day!
 
No, great write up. I agree completely, although I'd like to see the Complex String return for grins.
 
Sorry to bring this thread back......

To me, Rome-Night is one of my all-time favorite GT courses EVER, along with Circuit de la Sarthe (Both Versions), Twin Ring Motegi Road Course, Tsukuba Circuit, Autumn Ring, Apricot Hill, High Speed Ring, Grand Valley Speedway, Fuji Speedway 80s, Suzuka Circuit, Tahiti Road, Midfield Raceway, and finally, Green Forest Roadway :whew:

To me driving on Rome-Night was like riding around at 2-3:00 in the morning (yes, I know it sounds a little strange, but that's how I feel about it.

Getting a little bit off topic for a second here....

I remember playing EA Sports NCAA Football 2003 (or was it 2004.....?), and there was an option in Exhibition Mode to to set the time of day according to the time on your Playstation's clock. like for example, you could be playing at 2-3:00 in the morning! and the sky would actually reflect that. It was one of the most neatest things I have ever experienced in my entire time playing video games.

Anyway, I wish that KY and PD would implement something like that in GT5. I would find driving at La Sarthe at 2-3:00 in the morning one of the most gorgeous feelings I will ever experience in my entire life. I can only hope that PD will recreate the sun in your eyes as you turn off Mulsanne and go towards Indianapolis at 5-6:00 in the morning like I saw in the "Truth In 24" Documentary I saw on ESPN last Night about the Audi R10 TDI winning at LeMans Last Year.

Just like the first time I Played NCAA Football and watching the sun rise over Notre Dame Stadium.
 
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Without the fictional circuits, it wouldn't be Gran Turismo. Plus, who wouldn't like to see classic tracks such as Trial Mountain in HD?
 
I don't think anyone wants the original circuits removed, it's just that I personally would rather have PD work on getting tracks like Monza and the old and new Spa.
 
(Post #51) That's what I've been getting at. Good point. Some are just hateful of too many fictional courses and not enough real ones. Glad you made this point.

Thanks to all of you who have still been watching my YouTube video that bears the same name as this thread.
 
Not a problem. Monza, Spa, Imola, Riverside, Osterreichring, old Hockenheim, Zandvoort, etc..

All far more thrilling than the 'incredible' Eiger Nordwand or another mindless 4-turn city circuit that we're supposed to love because it has 'Paris' in the title. I think I'm too adicted to the Nordschleife as well, tracks like Deep Forest and Trial Mountain never appealed to me anyway (they seem to Ridge Racerish - not like real race tracks) at the best of times, but lately I've just been B-specing any race that's not on a real circuit :sly:.
 
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I believe real circuits is the way to go.

However, GT fictional circuits, especially the likes of Grand Valley or Trial Mountain, are almost classics already. It's nice to have them and see them evolve with technology. So I say, let's keep some of this fictional oldies, and add only real ones.
 
I think that fictional circuits are a good thing because they allow Polyphony the opportunity to create a circuit that challenges the player moreso than your average circuit. Because let's face it: given the choice between racing on El Capitan or racing on Motegi (Road), most people are probably going to choose El Capitan. There's a much greater variation of corners and they can produce much mor interesting results sometimes. That's not to say all the real-world circuits should be scratched, but moreso that the diversity should compliment one another. Beause real-world circuits aren't always that great; to me, Laguna Seca is very over-rated. The only really interesting corner is the left-hander before the hill up to the Corkscrew (which I consider to be a bit like GOLFINGER: the one everybody knows, and it's got a few iconic parts scattered throughout it, but the rest of it is about as interesting as bat droppings); fictional circuits subvert that because they create the potential for much more demanding gameplay.
 
fictional circuits subvert that because they create the potential for much more demanding gameplay.

Not to mention visuals, because almost 90% of all world circuits has no scenery at all.

Without "original" (ficitional, such as Midfield, Grand Valley or HSR), city (from night SS and R circuits, to Lodnon) and nature circuits (also fictional, from Trial Mountain to Eiger) GT would not be 50% of what it is.
 
I say bring back ALL of the fictional courses from GT1-4, including variations (like GT1/3's SSR11), but don't add any new ones. New tracks should be real world only, or demolished tracks that had existed in the past. I understand that GT wants to become the Real Driving Simulator, and for that to happen it must have all of the tracks in the world, but it would be a sad day if PD/KY ever decides to scrap the original fictional tracks, seeing as the first ever GT has fictional tracks only.

Honour what started the legacy 👍.
 
i will have to agree with you to bring back all the fictional tracks ( i mean every single one rally and road courses ) from GT1 to GT4 with all the variations but some new fictional tracks and some new real life tracks would be even better .
 
I say bring back ALL of the fictional courses from GT1-4, including variations (like GT1/3's SSR11), .........

Honour what started the legacy 👍.
+1 👍

And if these tracks are included, PD please give them the rough surface and narrowness from GT 1 and 2, since GT 3 all of the tracks (except for the Nordschleife) are to plain and smooth surfacelike.
Get your GT 2 disc a chance and run Autumn Ring, then switch to GT 4. Barely the same track, aside from the better graphics the GT 2 version outruns the newer one easily.
 
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