Artificially bloating the car list/The 200 new cars of GT6

[Duphman]

I wanted to bring attention to the 200 new cars being looked at or already modeled for GT6. I think there is a risk of the car count being gimped in Gran Turismo 6 and I wanted to see if GTPlanet would be upset if it did occur.

Should cars that have standard models in Gran Turismo 5 be considered "new additions" if they get a premium model?
Examples (since it is technically a different model year, but the exact same car mechanically):

and

Should "special edition" cars (like the Gamestop specials/GT Academy specials/Racing Modified) count towards that 200 car expansion?

Polyphony has used cars like these in the past to increase the overall roster number. Shouldn't this be a thing of the past?

You also have the Alfa Corse 155 V6 TI (DTM) 1993 and the Martini Racing DELTA HF Integrale Evoluzione II (WRC Gruppe A) 1993 that were being photographed at LM Gianetti by Polyphony and the Jaguar XJ220 at the Silverstone event. All have been in Gran Turismo 5 as standards but seeing that they are likely to receive premium updates, should Polyphony be allowed to include them in "200 New Car" lineup? Would you prefer that cars like these have their standard versions replaced entirely (as in deleted from the game)?

Is this acceptable in your eyes?

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

I agree with what you're saying, does mislead us if PD count the 200 new cars as premium models with standards included. I'd want them removed.

However, not sure if this needed a whole thread dedicated to it as we have the master car list thread.

 

[HAL20XX]

"Premium" upgrades, no. If it's a new trim, then yes. As far as unique liveries, I'm on the fence with that one.

 

[Cheshyrkat]

The series is already known for bloating the numbers. Personally I think new standard --> premiums can count as new cars. Mostly because I dont want standards anymore. However I would like to see a reduction in redundant models(Miata, Skyline, Lancers etc....).

 

[Duphman]

An example of the special edition cars I was talking about.

And RMs could be made of every old car in GT5 if they wanted, but should they really be considered their own model? A good number of cars like that could fill up the "200 new car" roster very quickly.

However, not sure if this needed a whole thread dedicated to it as we have the master car list thread.

I felt special attention should be brought to this subject. I am sure at least a small amount of SCEE and SCEA employees have glanced at GTPlanet before and I feel they should know that GT fans are aware of it and not happy about it. The master car list is just used as a list of confirmations, nothing more.

As of right now the "new car count" (when you don't count the Standard to Premium updates like the Countach/Alpine) is around 29. That includes the new Concours D'Elegance cars, the new SEMA cars, the cars shown in the Goodwood/Silverstone demos and the list of cars in the Gamestop GT6 press release. If we include the "special additions" of the pre-order list as separate cars and include the "Standard to Premium" cars we are already over 50 cars. 25% of the total 200 car count.

 

[SavageEvil]

Not sure but I do believe that "new" cars are listed as cars not in GT before. I do believe that they do make a distinction between upgraded cars and actual cars never before in a GT. RM models are totally different cars from the road version and not a special version of a car since it has completely different specifications which makes it a different vehicle.
I see no reason to think that they'll pad the game with cars that were standard and call them new since they aren't new. From the videos we saw, there were only two cars that were standard upgrades and everything else was brand new to GT. So I'm willing to wager a guess that they'll have a bunch of cars that aren't in the game since it would make sense to introduce new cars for a new game and save any sort of extraneous upgrading for DLC...keep it optional so you buy if you want to have a duplicate and not be forced into having two of the same car in the game. I think just like GT5 any premium models will remove the standard model from the game, GT5 did this to the ZR1, Enzo, 787B before the game was released. So I am not really worried about garage padding since it's already a bloody huge garage to begin with. Only time will tell, but I don't think PD is that bad.

 

[Duphman]

RM models are totally different cars from the road version and not a special version of a car since it has completely different specifications which makes it a different vehicle.

You don't see counting tuned cars that Polyphony itself made up as being slightly deceitful? *At least the X2010 is its own vehicle not based on something else.

 

[Tenacious D]

RM's weren't counted in GT2, otherwise, the car count would have been more than 900.

However, if they made tuner and racing versions of cars specifically for the game, then sure, count 'em. The tuned and racing GT-Rs for example are all different beasts. The Super GT Supras have slightly different specs, though I'm hoping that GT6 continues the tradition of allowing us to adjust power and weight for homologation purposes. Probably a safe bet.

Honestly though, I don't care. I want cars. Lots of cars. Gimme those cars.

 

[Kent]

I say yes...
If the GTR R34 can have a "GTR R34, R34 v-spec, v-spec II, Nur," and others, all count as individual models then I see no reason for them not to count a racing version of a car as a different car in the count.
Now if you were to ask about a premium car going to the tune shop and getting the RM that would be different, but something like the DLC RM cars in GT5 should definitely be a separate entry in the car count.

It's almost like the old fantasy LM cars they made in the past.

 

[Duphman]

The Super GT Supras have slightly different specs, though I'm hoping that GT6 continues the tradition of allowing us to adjust power and weight for homologation purposes.

The Super GT Supras are bespoke creations that exist in real life and aren't phoned in creations. They are real creations built by shops like Denso. They took lots of work to create.

RM's are no such thing and are vehicles Polyphony made up. Same goes with "Gamestop" editions. There is nothing wrong with their existence, but they are modified varients of cars that Polyphony itself created. They aren't new additions like an E30 M3. They are the same models PD already had with aero bits and a roll cage attached. These are vehicles you should be able to create on your own in-game in this age. I really don't see why they should count as "new additions" and yet when I view the Gran Turismo 5 car list on Gran Turismo's official website, cars with "RM" on the end are used to boost the car count.

Now if you were to ask about a premium car going to the tune shop and getting the RM that would be different

These are the ones I am focusing on (ex: Golf RM, Elise RM). Although the "TC" cars in the first DLC pack are technically listed in their files as "_RM" like all the other RMs cars.

 

[Kent]

I'd clarify that a bit more in your OP if that is the case. Further, the idea of mechanically the same but different models still applies using past logic (as expressed in my example of the R34).

To be honest, I think the R34 example stands as one of the many major problems with the series at this point. Only the "crap" cars (as I call them) are a bigger problem imo, cars like the Nissan Leaf have no place in GT imo.

 

[another_jakhole]

Kaz already said that GT6 won't be differentiating between Premium and Standard models like GT5 did. In that case, bringing up the Alpine and Lamborghini to bloat your logic doesn't make sense. Those aren't new models/cars.

 

[maxpontiac]

Honestly though, I don't care. I want cars. Lots of cars. Gimme those cars.

Indeed. Now where is the "I don't care" option in the poll!

 

[Blank_Redge]

Hrm.

I think that the RM version of a car should be counted individually from the base model.

I think that any cars that get the Premium makeover should have their Standard counterpart deleted. I mean, who'd prefer driving a Standard over a Premium, if the handling is otherwise identical?

I think that, unless there's significant differences in models or editions for a given car, we probably don't need a dozen or so variants of the same car (I'm looking at you, Miata / MX-5, and Skyline.)

Beyond that, I have to ask: how many cars do you (yes, you, the reader) take out on the track regularly? or even semi-regularly?

Granted, I still have my Daihatsu Midget in my garage, because seeing it gives me a smile, but I certainly don't go through my *entire* garage, trying to give everything equal rotation and track time.

I think we've got PLENTY of cars, as it is. I don't need Kaz and PD to continue to crank out cars, just to up the total number of cars. If they can convert a lot of those Standards to Premiums, and ditch the old Standard model, I'd be well pleased.

 

[Furinkazen]

In GT5 you have to classify the Premium Mazda 787B and the Jaguar XJR9 as different cars from there standard counterparts, as they are actually different.

 

[SavageEvil]

You don't see counting tuned cars that Polyphony itself made up as being slightly deceitful? *At least the X2010 is its own vehicle not based on something else.

Is it not a different performing vehicle with completely different stats from the original model? Why would PD fill the 200 new car roster with RM models and then give us all these visual upgrades that you can use on RM models in the first place? You're splitting hairs because you think that a RM model of a car shouldn't be counted as an addition, why the hell shouldn't it?

Logic is something that is lost in the grand scheme of things on this board at times. While it can be said that if PD has like a bunch of RM mods new to game could be seen as underhanded to call them new cars, I don't actually see them adding a bunch of RM mods that would exceed a quarter of the 200 new car count. People will complain that they aren't new models and if they aren't included and later left for DLC people will complain that they should have been in from release date.
It takes time and effort to get cars photographed, recorded and then modeled, not to mention quality checked to ensure it matches it intended original. These made up cars had to exist in some form, they would have needed a reference point to use as a target. If we search we'd probably be able to find some models of each of the RM cars in GT 5 online. Remember these cars are actually licensed cars so PD can't go representing them in the game unless these models are actually approved by the manufacturer beforehand. These have to have actual models exist somewhere in some form would they not?

 

[alonsof1fan91]

Maybe Im wrong, but IIRC PD counted RM/premium&standard versions of a car as 1 car and not different cars in the official vehicle list.

You always have to espect the worst from PD, but they will not start seperating standard and premium versions of a car. At least I hope so.

I wonder how many premiums we will have at launch. Lets say 200 new cars and 100 updated standart cars, this would be awesome.


GT5 already had too many dupes (Nascar, certain GT500s)...

 

[Samus]

The new cars list will be bloated, no doubt about it.

 

[Tornado]

There will most certainly be some sort of... ah, creative counting for the new cars included. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they considered the Alpine as an all new car and kept the Standard in as a result, adding yet another duplicate. I would also only be slightly more surprised if they counted all of the GT5 DLC cars as "new," based on a couple of them being included as part of the 15h Anniversary bonuses.

 

[Nissan Cima]

One of my main issues is that there are premium and standard versions of the same car and they're counted separately... I guarantee you that the standard versions of the Countach and A110 will be in GT6.

 

[another_jakhole]

One of my main issues is that there are premium and standard versions of the same car and they're counted separately... I guarantee you that the standard versions of the Countach and A110 will be in GT6.

I don't think that'll be the case. It only happened to be like that in GT5 because of the overlap between GT PSP and GT5's development. Most of the Lamborghini's in GT5 were new to the series, with two models (well, one) being Standard cars.

There will most certainly be some sort of... ah, creative counting for the new cars included. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they considered the Alpine as an all new car and kept the Standard in as a result, adding yet another duplicate. I would also only be slightly more surprised if they counted all of the GT5 DLC cars as "new," based on a couple of them being included as part of the 15h Anniversary bonuses.

Damn, good point.

 

[HuskyGT]

No they shouldn't count. That Alpine is a very good example, along with the Countach and the XJR-9 we got as DLC. In addition, whenever they upgrade a standard to premium, they should delete the standard version. There is no point on having duplicates.

And still, in this case, it should never count as a "new" car since it's already been in the game.

 

[Pit Crew]

There will most certainly be some sort of... ah, creative counting for the new cars included. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they considered the Alpine as an all new car and kept the Standard in as a result, adding yet another duplicate. I would also only be slightly more surprised if they counted all of the GT5 DLC cars as "new," based on a couple of them being included as part of the 15h Anniversary bonuses.

This has been my fear too. I hope im wrong. Probably not though.

 

[Fusion]

So what will we end up with I wonder, 50-100 all new premium cars?

 

[NeuroticVows]

I don't think premium updated cars are being included in the count since in GT5 the cars that exist in standard and premium versions are still counted as 1 car not 2

 

[Feldynn]

I personally think that the Special editions which are basically just reskins of cars already in the game shouldn't add to the car count, the majority of the GT Academy prize cars for example are basically just the regular cars with the GT:A decal package.

Now the Tuned Academy cars might count as separate models because they are specially tuned versions with extra stuff as default but if it's nothing that can't be done to done to a stock car (i.e. parts, weight reduction, etc) then maybe not.

 

[LarryL]

They don't need to cheat in that way. If you really think about it, in a game like GT 200 new cars is really not that many when you consider new, classic and historic street cars, race cars and show winners. And we also know that PD has considerably shortened the amount of time it take to render new premiums in engine. So I don't see why they'd have to artificially pad the car count. It's not like there aren't 200 great cars absent from GT5. I could probably come up with 50 rally cars alone. The new NASCAR bodies alone will take up like 10 spots. 200 spots will fill up quickly.

 

[Pit Crew]

They don't need to cheat in that way. If you really think about it, in a game like GT 200 new cars is really not that many when you consider new, classic and historic street cars, race cars and show winners. And we also know that PD has considerably shortened the amount of time it take to render new premiums in engine. So I don't see why they'd have to artificially pad the car count. It's not like there aren't 200 great cars absent from GT5. I could probably come up with 50 rally cars alone. The new NASCAR bodies alone will take up like 10 spots. 200 spots will fill up quickly.

You could maybe argue GTs car list are presently artficially padded, considering all the multiple trim levels of same type vehicles in the game...for example, the Mazda Miatas.

 

[05XR8]

hmm, 200 cars can be made easily if some are standards. bringing back the FPV F6 & GT, Mazda RX-7 GT-C & '83 Savanna, etc. would be NEW-"never seen before cars" in GT6(not Gran Turismo).

 

[another_jakhole]

I don't think premium updated cars are being included in the count since in GT5 the cars that exist in standard and premium versions are still counted as 1 car not 2

You're right.
http://www.gran-turismo.com/local/jp/data1/products/gt5/carlist_en.html

I think there was an updated list, but the link doesn't work.

I remember the car count getting up to 1,082. Just noting that they're saying there will be, "+1,200 cars in GT6, 200 more than GT5". Clearly, they're not counting as exact as we're trying to be and clearly they're not bloating the car count for the number of reasons already pointed out.