As fantastic as FM4 is.................

[artboy76]

I cant help thinking that if only GT5 didnt have so many lazy short cuts and standard last gen ported cars and no interiors, that Forza 4 would of been even better.....................

PD and Turn 10 need to keep pushing each other more and more.

Some things we need to see in Fm4 are actually available in Shift 2!!! yes i said it!!

But before you rip my head off.

head / helmet cam

visible windscreens

stunning cockpits

cock pits upgradeable as well with new steering wheels etc etc

race version of cars i.e. wide arch body kits etc

ability to paint alloys bright WHITE! or day glo, and have back alloys different colours

and vynils on glass...


All the above are in Shift2......................

PD and GT5 arent pushing Turn 10 enough...

just a thought

quick example of 'wide arch' body kits.

 

[zr1chris]

I do agree with you on some points but that VW is hideous imo and the Audi looks the same as the race version in FM4.

 

[artboy76]

It may look grim to you but it is the race version of the Mrk 1 golf from days gone by.

for all of shift 2 faults the race version of every car once you tuned the max was awesome touch. those that played shift 2 will know what I mean.

 

[TheBigMan045]

Yeah but T10 are dealing with a lot more manufacturers, therefore more licencing issues and they dont have the commercial clout of EA, and if i'm not mistaken arent the rims in shift 2 pre-coloured?

 

[UKMikey]

We may be Forza fanb... uh, faithful on this board but I think most people would agree that Shift 2 had some things that would have been great in FM4. Track and car selection are mostly down to EA's purchasing clout though and too many night races is almost as bad as having none at all.

(dammit, treed by BigMan )

 

[Northstar]

I love most things about Shift, unfortunately the physics and bugs ultimately shortened it's lifespan in my PS3.

Would love if we could combine all 3 and make a super game.

P.S. You forgot, what I feel, is the best DLC model of any racing game. Loved that they added more career events with each pack.👍

 

[t.o.]

It may look grim to you but it is the race version of the Mrk 1 golf from days gone by.

Hope they stay gone too. lol.
But I agree with you about PD's sloppiness giving Turn 10 an opportunity to slag off. I wont say this time around it happened. I think they did some massive improvements in the game. Nobody knows how long it took to do what they did. There just might not have been enough time to get it all in. But Turn10 knows that they can come out with a less than spectacular FM5 if GT5 is the only thing they have to worry about at launch time.

I even posted this a while ago but can't find it. I had the exact same concerns you do. Gotta find that post. Has to be around when GT5 was out for a few months. Just forgot where and when I posted it. LOL

 

[imported_JJ72]

Shift2 tuning is great in concept while still need to buff up in content, I want to see kits being able to be installed in separate pieces, and also options for slick tires without works conversion, i really love the different stages of cockpit mod which is unrelated to other mods, being able to run a stock looking but fully stripped out track car is great.

 

[local chap]

I also love the modification aspect of Shift 2. I think it's the biggest flaw of FM4, as it's basically the exact same setup of the past two installments. Seems directly ported and uninspired. I felt the same way about it when FM3 came out and had the same thing as FM2...

 

[Vaxxtx]

Shift2 is still one of my favorite games. Things they did right that I wish were in FM4

1. Cockpit upgrades. If you take a car from stock...say that VW above, and put in a turbo you get a turbo gauge. Upgrade the cockpit and you lose the stock wheel and get a momo. Upgrade to race spec, you get a new tach and gutted cockpit.

2. Windshield. So awesome to see bugs, oil, and whatnot smudge on it.

3. Engine heat. Stop and look at your hood, and you see heat coming off.

4. Tire debris. Following a car, you see bits of rubber coming off hitting your windshield.

5. Road debris. Leaf's blow in the wind when you pass them, and the grass moves to your car passing.

6. DLC. My god getting old Monza, old Hockeinheim, old Silverstone, old Dijon-Prenois, Rouen-Les-Essarts, and a whole new set of career races was one of the best DLC packs ever.

7. Tracks. I still say not one game on console has a better track selection. 36 real world locations with 93 layouts. And the small fanatasy tracks where actually more real world looking than any other fantasy tracks in any game.

I am very happy and content with Forza, but I got spoiled with the details above. I wish they take a cue from S2 for FM5. At least the tracks.

 

[local chap]

Shift did a lot of things right, but I still don't like how they model the tracks and surroundings to the point they look like something out of the X-Games.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Shift did a lot of things right, but I still don't like how they model the tracks and surroundings to the point they look like something out of the X-Games.

I actually think the contrary, SHift 2 tracks looks alive, when in GT5 or FM4, tracks looks like they just out of a simulator.

Funny how people can see things differently ^^

I think one of the feature I like the most in Shift 2 was night driving, on PC the game just look stunning, the cockpit reflection on the front window is amazing, also you knew when a car was behind because you could see there light in the whole cockpit. Awesome.

 

[HAL20XX]

Am I the only one who couldn't control the steering wheel in Shift 2? I tried every setting adjustment imaginable but the steering sensitivity was just too over-responsive. I had to give the game up because of it.

 

[ShylockHolmes]

Yeah but T10 are dealing with a lot more manufacturers, therefore more licencing issues and they dont have the commercial clout of EA, and if i'm not mistaken arent the rims in shift 2 pre-coloured?

MS doesn't have the commercial clout of EA? You keep the Porsche and I'll raise you a Ferarri!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the OP and thoughts on Shift 2, the handling in Shift 1 was so phoney and the hype regarding it being a sim was a lie. They only get one chance to fool me and they used it up...

 

[strtgng]

Shift did a lot of things right, but I still don't like how they model the tracks and surroundings to the point they look like something out of the X-Games.

I actually think the contrary, SHift 2 tracks looks alive, when in GT5 or FM4, tracks looks like they just out of a simulator.

Funny how people can see things differently ^^

The tracks that came with Shift 2, with the exception of the DLC tracks, all are crammed with crap on the sidelines that make them look unrealistic - tents, ferris wheels (not the ones that actually belong there), way too much EA signage, etc. The DLC tracks where there is no modern "x-games" feel are incredible. Rouen-Les-Essarts with a circa 1950s-60s helicopter overhead, old-school look and feel, etc were the best.

Give me Forza 4 with Shift's tracks, upgrades from both games, Shift's sounds, dirt on the windshield, tire clag, etc....and I'll be happy. Leave the physics and graphics like they are now on Forza 4.

Funny - I don't need or want a d*mn thing from GT5...

 

[imported_Da-bomber]

I wish for more games to have the helmet cam. It is so immersing when using the view.

 

[cuco33]

I'm a big VW/Audi fan and have to say that whole mk1 rabbit gti w/flared fenders, front lip and lip sideskirts are just nasty looking. The Audi TT doesn't look too bad except for the side skirt part. It's overdone in my book. But custom flaring and wheel arches like that I would definitely like. I don't remember which game had it but there was an option where you can make your own custom widebody. That would be pretty sweet in my book.

 

[Northstar]

Funny - I don't need or want a d*mn thing from GT5...

Day/Night transitions and 24 hour races, that's all I can think of.

I don't remember which game had it but there was an option where you can make your own custom widebody. That would be pretty sweet in my book.

I'm guessing you are referencing Autosculpt which was in a couple NFS titles.



Would love it if T10 took it and improved upon it.

 

[artboy76]

It's a credit to the intelligence of your average Forza fan compared to the average Gt5 Chav that we can even discuss another driving games plus points without resorting to snide Fanboi isums. props to us.

 

[cuco33]

Justin, that's the mode I was thinking. I remember trying it out once and thought how cool it was. Wasn't perfect but some tweaks to allow even the most basic widebodies would be pretty great. I'd even add wider wheel options after a wide body adjustment or adjustable offsets (like adding spacers) so you don't have massively wide tires which can be pro and con depending on what you are doing. Thing is there's a lot more I'd want Forza series to adapt before going this route. Some of them are taking key features that it's biggest competitor has, which I'm sure is in the works for FM5.

 

[drivatar]

visible windscreens

stunning cockpits

Shift: 30fps
Forza: 60fps

Performance is one of Turn10's highest priorities. I can only support this because many developers don't care enough.

 

[Wolfe]

I've always preferred a smooth 60fps framerate to extra technical details. Not that 4za is particularly lacking in those.

 

[I'm Motarded]

I agree some of the features listed in the OP could do well to be added to the Forza franchise. But Forza has something shift doesn't.. 500+ cars. That alone makes two of the suggested features a nightmare to add. Custom cockpits and Widebody kits.

The work that went into adding interior view for all those cars was huge between fm2 and fm3. SMS didn't have to do that much work for shift 2. So when you balance out what each game has to offer in that regard it makes them even in my book. The same for Widebodies. To create individual cockpits and Widebody for each of the 600 cars in FM would take an astronomical amount of time. And on the other hand it's great the game has widebodies, but my favorite car is there to add a widebody kit to.

Looking at the way T10 creates their games you can tell that if in a board-meeting somebody suggested "lets split only 100 cars to get custom cockpit and only 100 others to get widebody and the rest can wait until the next title release" the idea would have been wiped off the brainstorm-board immediately. Intentionally creating a divide between cars isn't something they seem keen on.

One thing you can be sure of is that all the developers in this genre are watching what each other are doing (Rivals/Autolog? Shift was in fact spawned to take market share from FM/GT in the first place) T10 have said themselves there is a friendly rivalry between the U.S and European Devs, I'm sure there is virtual banter going on too, it's kind of evident with certain comments you hear come time to promote your games release. To me it's obvious the Japanese tend to keep themselves to themselves. You may not see Ian Bell, Dan Greenawalt and Kazunori Yamauchi singing singing Karaoke together every Thursday, but everybody is still watching each other.

Ultimately the games will evolve as the devs see fit. Trying to cram to much into one title usually has two outcomes.

• The game is in development forever (possibly eventually being canned by the publisher)
• or it's a rushed poor quality title (possibly eventually being canned by the publisher).

While none of the games mentioned in this thread are perfect they are great games in their own right, each with something different to bring to the table. Speaking of bringing to the table, let's just pray nobody wants to borrow EA/Blackbox idea's of quicktime and no cockpit views. No Cockpit view? Do people still make serious games like that? it's nearly 2012 for crying out loud.

One last note, I think the bodykit on that golf is fictional. It might be based on a real kit but I doubt you can or ever could buy that. The giveaway is the lack of room for suspension travel. Please don't bring that one to forza it looks stupid/unrealistic for racing, bring a Retro Zender or Kamei (pics) they look similar, but drastically better. Some of the Forza Aero looks bad enough.

TBH I'd be happy with just a euro headlight conversion on the MK1

 

[cuco33]

It's not really fictional, but I guess someone can say it's sort of close. Here's a few more of the same mk1, mostly the kamei version

I think it matches more of this one:

notice it's not super thin sideskirt? Generally mk1 rabbit widebodies are just the fender flares.

 

[Spagetti69]

My major complaint about this game is that I'm freakin addicted.

 

[zr1chris]

My major complaint about this game is that I'm freakin addicted.

👍

 

[GeekCred]

A couple more things about Shift 2 are the experience of crashing and car body damage modelling. Those aspects are unrivaled in any other sim IMO.

 

[Spagetti69]

A couple more things about Shift 2 are the experience of crashing and car body damage modelling. Those aspects are unrivaled in any other sim IMO.

Damage models are quite good.
However, and this is on Xbox., the magnetic effect when two cara connect is disturbing.
It's like two dogs on heat and you need a bucket of water to separate the cars.
Really ruins it for me.

 

[I'm Motarded]

A couple more things about Shift 2 are the experience of crashing and car body damage modelling. Those aspects are unrivaled in any other sim IMO.

Race driver: Grid? O.k it's not a really a 'sim', but that's one thing it does well.

Again, this all comes down to licensing and time IMO. Getting 80 manufacturer to agree to that level of damage is going to be difficult, the time it takes to model what's under removable panels for 600 cars is going to take a lot of effort too.

I agree Cusco it does look more based on the red car, but these cars looks ok. My real gripe is the shape of the kit, the green line represents the angle the shift bodykit seems to follow. It's that I don't like and a few bits regarding the arch lip and wheel fitment in the arches. looks too cartoony.

 

[zr1chris]

Again, this all comes down to licensing and time IMO. Getting 80 manufacturer to agree to that level of damage is going to be difficult, the time it takes to model what's under removable panels for 600 cars is going to take a lot of effort too.

I don't think they would need to model each car specifically for that. I don't think it needs to be as accurate as the exterior. Most people won't know exactly what it looks like under most body panels of most cars. I think that's one aspect they could get away with making a generic design of some sort. I do agree that it is still more work that is required and not every car will they be able to use the same generic design.