Assetto corsa coming to PS4 and Xbox one

[Donnced]

 

[C Fandango]

Take it christmas morning bike parade is a global phenomenon?

 

[Mike_grpA]

Still a tenuous link to physics. I'm seeing a greater chance of set up oddities than physics bugs.

I don't see the camber and toe settings jumping around as set up oddities. When the car is stationary, those values should be as well.

I'm tninking that gargantuan team at Kunos might have something to do with it. Afterall if tiny little teams at PD and T10 can fo this.....

Seriously, there's a lot of stuff the coders haven't got the time to do, but a lot of stuff for them to do.

And if I was playing a Forza or GT game, or any other full priced game for that matter, I would give them the same analysis and the same criticism if there were issues. You can make excuses for the devs if you so wish, just like a lot of people did for SMS, but if Kunos wants their title to be treated like other indy titles, they shouldn't sell it for full price. Regardless of the dev team size, they've been working on the game for over 5 years, and are still selling it for full price, so they are as open to criticism as any other dev.

This is one of the reasons I tore apart Hello games over the No Man's Sky debacle.

That's not a bug. Hopefully @Johnnypenso or @brownninja97 comes along to explain it better than I can. But the left side of the screen where you can adjust values like toe & camber are like in the garage on a lift values and the numbers on the other side reflect the real life result from that setting, with load applied...the car isn't on perfectly flat land, etc. I often see the real life values jumping around a little bit, like from 0.2 to 0.1 back to 0.2 back to 0.1 - again the same philosophy applies. It's kind of like tire air pressure. You might set it to 25 lbs, but go run 3 laps and get those shoes warm...they're NOT going to measure 25 lbs pressure any longer.

I am probably doing a totally crap job at explaining the toe/camber thing and frankly it confuses me quite often as well. Just focusing on the settings you want, like if the car has a range of 3.0 degrees of camber, but you don't want maximum camber, set it to 2.5, for example and don't be too concerned about the real-time dynamic readout.

EDIT: Added a screenshot for the heck of it. Found it via Google Images...

The pic illustrates one of my points, that the toe number you select bares no resemblance to the actual toe on the car itself. In that pic, the front toe is set to 7, with the toe on the car itself at around 0.10. The toe on the rear is at 9, so considering the front toe, you would expect it to be just a little higher at the rear, yet it is over double on the car itself. These numbers are completely different for every car too, and seem to have no direct correlation to the number on the actual car. I had one car with a rear toe of 0.38, and the number in the set up was 160. Changing that number by 10 would change the toe on the car by 0.06 or 0.07. It made no sense at all. This is something I'd call a set up oddity, and one for which there simply is no reason.

The physics bug is in the way the numbers jump around, and I disagree that it's just rounding. It jumps around .02 and .03 constantly, so clearly the wheels aren't sitting still when the car is still. In one of the open wheelers, I even observed the front wheels bouncing slightly when I had the car stopped, so something isn't right there.

 

[mister dog]

And if I was playing a Forza or GT game, or any other full priced game for that matter, I would give them the same analysis and the same criticism if there were issues. You can make excuses for the devs if you so wish, just like a lot of people did for SMS, but if Kunos wants their title to be treated like other indy titles, they shouldn't sell it for full price. Regardless of the dev team size, they've been working on the game for over 5 years, and are still selling it for full price, so they are as open to criticism as any other dev.

You're nitpicking on a minor detail and aside from down under the game sells for 30 to 40 bucks in the rest of the world (which is not the full price triple A games normally charge).

 

[Nielsen]

With all due respect, I didn't buy the game months after release to be a beta tester. I got really sick of that with Pcars. I'm not going to waste my time reporting stuff so basic it should have been fixed well before the game released, especially considering it had already been out for two years on PC before the console launch.

Seriously, why don't you bring this up on the official support forum? That's where the developers are, so it's not a waste of time. Don't get me wrong, it's fine to discuss it here but probably less constructive.

 

[Spitfire77]

Seriously, why don't you bring this up on the official support forum? That's where the developers are, so it's not a waste of time. Don't get me wrong, it's fine to discuss it here but probably less constructive.

Many people have - but they do not respond at all. You can even open a ticket with 505 and they say go to the forums. Many people have posted questions on the forum about very legit issues (like not being able to use DLC content online) and no one responds, or you get directed to the suggestion to open a ticket.

The only activity I have seen on the console section of the official forums from AC/Kunos Mods is locking threads and thank yous to people who only praise.

 

[Nielsen]

Many people have - but they do not respond at all. You can even open a ticket with 505 and they say go to the forums. Many people have posted questions on the forum about very legit issues (like not being able to use DLC content online) and no one responds, or you get directed to the suggestion to open a ticket.

The only activity I have seen on the console section of the official forums from AC/Kunos Mods is locking threads and thank yous to people who only praise.

My point is that they are more likely to see it there. He seems insistent there is a bug.

 

[Spitfire77]

My point is that they are more likely to see it there. He seems insistent there is a bug.

I see what you mean - yeah they won't be answering his posts on this forum for sure. Some people here may post issues on the PC section though or know of them from the PC to at least verify they are known.


I have seen the settings jump around when the car is sitting in the pits, I get what he is saying.

As far as that image, it looks like the front wheels maybe turned which is why they show differently.

 

[Orayani]

What is it that seems to happen fps wise when ABS is off, you brake the the game stutters versus keeping ABS on and no fps stutters? Also can you tell who is using TCS and ABS or such?

I'm loving the feeling since I've lengthened the conical cone and wedge some foam in between what little gap there is to get and even better feeling. Feels so nice that I rarely lock up the brakes now but damn! Some of these GT3 BMW's are real beasts anything lower than 69% front brake bias. While others I can get away with 61 - 59% or so...

Is it better to drive without ABS and TCS or is it a preference thing?

 

[Mike_grpA]

Seriously, why don't you bring this up on the official support forum? That's where the developers are, so it's not a waste of time. Don't get me wrong, it's fine to discuss it here but probably less constructive.

Was only discussing pros and cons of the game here, I honestly don't care that it's got issues, and the issues I pointed out here are only a couple of minor ones, there are many more issues, some of them major to a lot of players. But as I mentioned before, I wasted too much time trying to give feedback to SMS about the various issues Pcars had, and the sheer volume of fanboys and apologists that jump on you at their forums made it a waste of time, not to mention SMS themselves rarely responded to bug reports over there. I've got an account at the AC forums, and as @Spitfire77 pointed out, bug reports get largely ignored.

As far as that image, it looks like the front wheels maybe turned which is why they show differently.

That's not what I was talking about. Different numbers from one side to the other are normal, because the camber of the pit-lane where the car sits is rarely, if ever, going to be perfectly flat. What I was talking about is the numbers you actually change in the menu, bare no resemblance to the numbers on the actual car (with regards to toe). I might not be explaining it well.

As I said, it's not a big deal, but in a game that's been in development for over 5 years, and has very little in the way of content or actual gameplay, which is praised so heavily for it's physics, I didn't expect there to be any issues in the setups or physics of the game, however minor they may be. One physics issue that I can't explain is how caster doesn't seem to have any effect on self-alignment or wheel weight, but again, it's not that big a deal, so I don't see a point making bug reports on the official forums, where I'll be directed to 505, who don't care about any of the games they publish anyway.

The only reason I brought them up is because, like every other game I play and talk about in this forum, I will openly discuss the pros and cons of it, regardless of how much I like it. I've been called an apologist for Pcars by some people for sticking up for what it does well, and been called a hater of the same game by others when I've pointed out the many flaws it has.

I'm loving the feeling since I've lengthened the conical cone and wedge some foam in between what little gap there is to get and even better feeling. Feels so nice that I rarely lock up the brakes now but damn! Some of these GT3 BMW's are real beasts anything lower than 69% front brake bias. While others I can get away with 61 - 59% or so...

Is it better to drive without ABS and TCS or is it a preference thing?

I've noticed a lot of cars lock the rears quite easily, but I prefer some oversteer on corner entry as opposed to understeer, and I use a load cell brake, so I prefer it, because if you're careful with the brakes, you can use it to your advantage.

I prefer no ABS or TC with all cars, but some of them are downright savage without aids. Usually a brake bias, rear toe, and tyre pressure change is all that's needed to get them to behave. I reckon if you can get used to no aids, you'll be much faster in this game, but other than that it's definitely a preference thing.

 

[Spitfire77]

Sorry yeah I get what you meant now - I never really bother with the settings. that window from PC looks different from what we have on console as well. I will have to take a look next time with how it is set vs what the car has on the ps4 version.

 

[Nielsen]

As I said, it's not a big deal, but in a game that's been in development for over 5 years, and has very little in the way of content or actual gameplay, which is praised so heavily for it's physics, I didn't expect there to be any issues in the setups or physics of the game, however minor they may be.

I just checked this thing myself on PS4 and there is indeed a lot of values jumping around as the car stands still in the pits. You're right it's a strange issue given the game's emphasis on simulation and how much time they've had to polish the code. Even if it's something trivial, it makes the physics engine look broken.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Sorry yeah I get what you meant now - I never really bother with the settings. that window from PC looks different from what we have on console as well. I will have to take a look next time with how it is set vs what the car has on the ps4 version.

Yeah it seems to have been switched around from one side to the other for the console version for some reason. I only mess with the settings to get a nicer feel at the limit, mostly with the race cars. Most of the road cars feel so good with the stock setup that I don't bother changing much, if anything. Not to mention I drive differently in the road cars. I tend to just fang about for a bit of fun in them, but when I get in a race car I get all competitive with myself and keep trying to squeeze more lap time out of it lol.

I just checked this thing myself on PS4 and there is indeed a lot of values jumping around as the car stands still in the pits. You're right it's a strange issue given the game's emphasis on simulation and how much time they've had to polish the code. Even if it's something trivial, it makes the physics engine look broken.

Yeah as I said, it's a small issue, and one that so far isn't affecting my enjoyment of the game, but I'd list that issue if it was in any other game, because it's weird more than anything. Like how the camber in Pcars was broken and did weird things for so long, or how ride height and wing changes in GT6 produced unexpected results.

 

[NLxAROSA]

the game sells for 30 to 40 bucks in the rest of the world

At release, on console? No it didn't, it was full price. It came down quite quickly though.

But as I mentioned before, I wasted too much time trying to give feedback to SMS about the various issues Pcars had, and the sheer volume of fanboys and apologists that jump on you at their forums made it a waste of time, not to mention SMS themselves rarely responded to bug reports over there.

That's interesting because I remember very clearly that several WMD members (including myself) passed on issues to the developers which got fixed. Both here and on the official forums.

As I said, it's not a big deal, but in a game that's been in development for over 5 years, and has very little in the way of content or actual gameplay, which is praised so heavily for it's physics, I didn't expect there to be any issues in the setups or physics of the game, however minor they may be.

I don't think it's realistic to expect no issues in physics in any recent sim given the complexity of the todays models. There will always be issues. And there will be more as complexity increases over the years.

 

[Scaff]

At release, on console? No it didn't, it was full price. It came down quite quickly though.

It wasn't a full price title at launch in the UK. Amazon had it for £30 on disc (full price is £42 - £50) and it was £40 on the Playstation Store (full price is £45 to £55).

 

[RoccoTTS]

It wasn't a full price title at launch in the UK. Amazon had it for £30 on disc (full price is £42 - £50) and it was £40 on the Playstation Store (full price is £45 to £55).

Same at amazon.de, 45€ for the prestige edition and between 60 and 70€ full price games.
Xbox store : AC = 50€ and FH3 = 70€. and F1 2016 = 70€

 

[mister dog]

At release, on console? No it didn't, it was full price. It came down quite quickly though.

'Sells' is in the present tense. And wasn't the game like 10 bucks cheaper on release? Anyhow point being that nobody should feel robbed or abused because toe settings jump around whilst being stationary in the pits, or state that the physics engine is broken because of it.

 

[Scaff]

'Sells' is in the present tense. And wasn't the game like 10 bucks cheaper on release?

It was.

Anyhow point being that nobody should feel robbed or abused because toe settings jump around whilst being stationary in the pits, or state that the physics engine is broken because of it.

Sorry but no. That's totally subjective, even though it did retail for less than a normal full price title doesn't mean that people can't feel "robbed or abused".

You don't feel that way, but that doesn't mean that view is the only correct one, and others can feel differently.

 

[Mike_grpA]

'Sells' is in the present tense. And wasn't the game like 10 bucks cheaper on release? Anyhow point being that nobody should feel robbed or abused because toe settings jump around whilst being stationary in the pits, or state that the physics engine is broken because of it.

It was a full priced game here in Australia, and that's what I based my point off of. It actually is still $100 brand new at my local EB Games store, which is why I waited to find a good priced used copy, the cheapest I found was $50.

Anyway, at no point in any of my posts did I say I felt "robbed" or "abused", and I never said the physics were broken. I pointed out a couple of small issues, that was all.

That's interesting because I remember very clearly that several WMD members (including myself) passed on issues to the developers which got fixed. Both here and on the official forums.

Yes, and thankfully there were several members who were helpful, and I appreciated that, because like I said: There were a lot of fanboys and apologists at the official forums who would swamp any thread with criticism or bugs, and voicing concerns here, and having conversations about bugs here, was so much easier. I've seen the same type of people at the AC forum who are so desperate to protect their precious that they just can't handle it if anyone has a problem with the game, even legitimate bugs. To be fair though, the atmosphere there is no where near as vile as the Pcars forum was a year or so ago.

I don't think it's realistic to expect no issues in physics in any recent sim given the complexity of the todays models. There will always be issues. And there will be more as complexity increases over the years.

Fair point. I guess what I mean is the way everyone raves about the physics, and the fact it's taken 5 years to get the game to this point, where it has just a handful of cars and tracks, the physics are obviously the main focus in that time, and I just expected the fundamental things to be perfect. That's on me.

Edit: Not perfect, that's the wrong word, bug free would be better.

 

[mister dog]

It was a full priced game here in Australia, and that's what I based my point off of. It actually is still $100 brand new at my local EB Games store, which is why I waited to find a good priced used copy, the cheapest I found was $50.

Anyway, at no point in any of my posts did I say I felt "robbed" or "abused", and I never said the physics were broken. I pointed out a couple of small issues, that was all.

Yeah true it's just a general trend that people blow things out of proportion, but you weren't getting to that I suppose. I bought Mafia 3 and games being released in that state are reasons to feel truly disgruntled though

 

[Mike_grpA]

Yeah true it's just a general trend that people blow things out of proportion, but you weren't getting to that I suppose. I bought Mafia 3 and games being released in that state are reasons to feel truly disgruntled though

Yeah I saw a guy at the AC forum going absolutely ballistic because he was convinced there was a bug in the 599XX that sometimes prevented downshifts. So many people tried telling him it was how the real car is designed, to not allow downshifts when it would over rev the engine, but he maintained that it wasn't that and was in fact a bug. There was even a second person come in and back him up, claiming it wouldn't allow downshifts sometimes "even at 2k rpm". The thread blew up with people on both sides name calling and flinging **** at each other, it was ridiculous lol.

Just for a laugh I thought I'd take the 599XX for a blast at the 'ring (tourist version of course ), and not only is it fine, and the shifts only don't work when it would otherwise over rev the engine, but there is no way that guy could know it wouldn't shift down even at 2k rpm, because the rpm on the car's digital dash, as well as the HUD, is just a line lol, there's no numbered tacho at all. Side note: The 599XX is good fun, but a bloody monster on the 'ring with no assists .

Anyway, for want to not come across as being purposely negative, which is not what I'm trying to do, I will now mention some of the things I absolutely love about the game. The Ferrari 312T, for example, and the old Lotus F1 cars, are just joyous to drive. The Lotus 49 on the 10km Monza is a ridiculous amount of fun. The car at the limit never quite feels under control, it just constantly feels one slightly missed braking marker, or one slight over-correction, away from spearing into the fence. Even just stringing together a handful of half decent laps at that circuit in that car gives you a massive feeling of satisfaction.

The Nurburgring is also endless fun, with practically any car. I even had a blast there in the MX5, despite it feeling like it's powered by a lawn mower engine. Actually, the 'ring and the modern Monza are so close to real life that it's going to be depressing racing them in Pcars now. Especially Monza.

Also, one track that really surprised me was Black Cat County, especially the long version. For their first attempt at a fictional track, it's excellent. I find it suits road cars best, and after wanting to just have a quick go on it in the Nismo GTR the other night, I ended up spending over an hour on it without realising lol.

 

[Nielsen]

'Sells' is in the present tense. And wasn't the game like 10 bucks cheaper on release? Anyhow point being that nobody should feel robbed or abused because toe settings jump around whilst being stationary in the pits, or state that the physics engine is broken because of it.

I only said it makes the physics engine look broken and others implied the same. That's not saying it is broken! I'm guessing the jumping values are caused by something preventing cars from standing entirely still on the ground. In that case the imperfection is so small that it's only visible in the telemetry and presumably non-existent when the car is moving. After all, I have noticed a few occasions where the wheels spin as the car stands still in the pits. I'm willing to bet the two issues are related.

 

[Mike_grpA]

I only said it makes the physics engine look broken and others implied the same. That's not saying it is broken! I'm guessing the jumping values are caused by something preventing cars from standing entirely still on the ground. In that case the imperfection is so small that it's only visible in the telemetry and presumably non-existent when the car is moving. After all, I have noticed a few occasions where the wheels spin as the car stands still in the pits. I'm willing to bet the two issues are related.

I've noticed wheels bouncing very slightly while the car is stationary, and I thought this must be what causes the dynamic camber and toe behaviour in the pits. It'd be pretty hard, if not impossible, to test if it's happening while the car is moving.

 

[NLxAROSA]

It wasn't a full price title at launch in the UK. Amazon had it for £30 on disc (full price is £42 - £50) and it was £40 on the Playstation Store (full price is £45 to £55).

Over here it was in the physical stores (e.g. MediaMarkt) for 55,- Same price as all the other games. Didn't check online, could be cheaper (or more expensive depending on shop). Prices have dropped a lot since then though.

or state that the physics engine is broken because of it.

I don't think anyone is saying things are broken, just that there are bugs (having bugs is not the same as broken). That said, in hindsight I think AC has very few issues on consoles besides missing features and some initial performance issues.

 

[skazz]

<...> after wanting to just have a quick go on it in the Nismo GTR the other night, I ended up spending over an hour on it without realising lol.

This is why so many people have such high # hours played in AC on their Steam accounts. Whatever else is wrong with the game, once you start just driving it's so easy to just keep going and watch the hours fly by.

 

[bleeder]

I've noticed wheels bouncing very slightly while the car is stationary, and I thought this must be what causes the dynamic camber and toe behaviour in the pits. It'd be pretty hard, if not impossible, to test if it's happening while the car is moving.

There's another good one that I get all the time where I jump back to the pits and as I'm adjusting the setup my wheels are still trying to spin with the brakes on, causing lots of smoke and tyre screeching. Happens so often. Glad I have tyre wear turned off as I'm unsure whether this pit action will cause them to wear down prematurely.

 

[Mike_grpA]

There's another good one that I get all the time where I jump back to the pits and as I'm adjusting the setup my wheels are still trying to spin with the brakes on, causing lots of smoke and tyre screeching. Happens so often. Glad I have tyre wear turned off as I'm unsure whether this pit action will cause them to wear down prematurely.

That's weird, haven't had that one yet. One thing that annoyed me was with tyre wear turned off, it won't tell you what the tyre temps are in the pits. At first I just figured that with wear turned off, the tyre temps must just always be optimal or something, but when I was stuffing about powersliding and swinging 'nuts, I noticed the car had no rear grip afterwards, so the rear tyres were definitely overheated, but I went back to the pits, and it still said n/a for all the temps

 

[35mm]

The small wheel bouncing might also explain the small rumble coming from the wheel when in the pits. On my T300RS this is a very small rumble (almost as the wheel is being electrified), but said to be of great magnitude on the T150.


Regarding tyre wear, I'll keep it off (and with blankets) as long as we can't check/control wear and temperature.

 

[bleeder]

I managed to write off my car once when I had mechanical damage turned off. Buckled my wheels and was undriveable. I also don't see the point of running tyre wear or even fuel on without better telemetry.

 

[skazz]

The small wheel bouncing might also explain the small rumble coming from the wheel when in the pits. On my T300RS this is a very small rumble (almost as the wheel is being electrified),

This is kind of a buzz out of the T300 base, not felt as actual movement in the wheel rim.

I have experienced this effect in a few situations: (1) it happens when the wheel is clipping (2) it happens if you turn on engine vibrations in Raceroom (3) it was suddenly added to Forza Horizon 3 as vibration effect on tarmac in a recent patch.

I conclude that it's the T300's way of dealing with certain specific FFB commands. And I loathe the feel, so turned off engine vibration in Raceroom immediately. Still, it's handy since once you realise this buzz means clipping you can accurately feel clipping happening on games which don't show a clipping meter.