Australia Proposes Mandatory Internet Censorship - Now Includes Video Games

[AERO_HDT]

Let me guess, the back channels are via the Internet? Read the whole thread and you will see they want to ban any sites that allow you to access illegal items, and they want unrated video games to be included in that list.

So, you have two choices: Fight to stop the Internet censorship or fight to get an R18 classification. Personally, I suggest both, but the Internet censorship would be higher on my list, as that is taking a note straight from the Chinese and other unsavory governments.


I am not likening you to the Chinese, but this specific issue is a page taken straight from their playbook. The bigger question isn't, "Is this so bad," but rather, "If they can do this, how much more are they willing to do?"

I disagree with the first point you made. The legislation will not be covering file-sharing sites, so therefore, it can still be net accessed.

By back channels I mean that there are plenty of illegally imported sources that we can buy the physical game from with no hassles. You tend to make it sound like it will be easier to score heroin on the streets than it will a video game.

Secondly, an "R" rating for our games is simply not enough. Now I'm arguing this for the sake of argument, not because I agree with the censorship, but slapping sticker on a game is not going to prevent 6 year olds from playing it.

Thirdly, how much further are they willing to go? Well I have no gripe against the government looking to ban access to child pornography and paedophilia. There's a lot of sick, disgusting, revolting stuff on the internet. Why shouldn't a government ban it?

Rubbish about "freedom of speech" and "freedom of choice" can never justify the presence of these things.

And a game that portrays the shooting of unarmed civilians in cold blood "just to make a point" is in my opinion, poor taste.

👎

 

[Casio]

PS: Casio, you wouldn't happen to bomb around Richmond/Collingwood/Abbotsford would you?

My girlfriend works in Richmond, so I'm there a bit, I also go to Vic Park on occasion to kick the footy. I've totally been seen haven't I? My cover is blown.

 

[Jay]

They already lost tons of money when all the PC gamers returned their pre-orders with that announcement. I guess the console gamers might care, but they don't know what they're missing.

You know whats funny? Thats a big load of BS about all the PC gamers cancelled their pre-orders. A PC FPS gamer wont convert to a Console controller FPS gamer and MW lovers wont go without MW2 just because of that.

 

[Grand Prix]

You know whats funny? Thats a big load of BS about all the PC gamers cancelled their pre-orders. A PC FPS gamer wont convert to a Console controller FPS gamer and MW lovers wont go without MW2 just because of that.

No BS mate. The clan I belong to is very serious about their mods, we've been modding and tinkering since the days of Medal of Honor. Then we moved to COD4 and COD5 when EA farked up with MOH Airborne. You tell me how successful Airborne was without any modding community supporting it. Now IW (or rather, Activision) is doing the same with MW2. They're getting rid of the ability to make mods because they know that modders can extend the life of a game for years on end - which may or may not interfere with sales of future sequels. For example, why would I want to play a newer FPS when I already have a wicked crossbow to play with (thanks to modding) in MOH? As a result, they also know they can make more sales by cutting off any modding capabilities that extend a game's life. On the other hand, they can also lose sales in the long run if they get their loyal fans angry enough, as they have with our clan. Modding is a pretty important feature, apparently.

But we're off-topic. I'm sure many Australians are angry that they won't be able to get their MW fix legally. The Australian modding community will probably move onto something else, regardless. They're like nomads. Or perhaps parasites, depending on your POV.

 

[Jay]

Your clan doesn't equall "All" PC gamers though. All those games are a load of crud anyway, we need a new Swat.

Oh and I didn't know mod ability was dropped! Thats crazy, sounds like they want to kill PC games. Like Microsoft.


Oh and BTW MW2 isn't banned in Australia.

 

[Thiele]

Let me guess, the back channels are via the Internet? Read the whole thread and you will see they want to ban any sites that allow you to access illegal items, and they want unrated video games to be included in that list.

They can't block Ebay or the like though can they?

 

[Casio]

They can block whatever they want. They could block GTP if it offered files/content that were deemed not appropriate for people.

 

[Jay]

Maybe they will block anything that is not Holden or Ford (AU), that would be a sensible thing to do...

 

[Casio]

Maybe they will block anything that is not Holden or Ford (AU), that would be a sensible thing to do...

Hey, I'd be happy for a block of those. I'd trade MW2 over getting rid of Holden/Ford fanboys and bogans without hesitation.

 

[AERO_HDT]

Careful....

I drive a VL Turbo....



But no I'm not a wog and I've had my VL for near on 15 years!

Back on topic, the internet is "unbannable". It's bigger than any single government, the presence of sick and deluded firetrucks that use the net for child porn, bestiality and whack $h!t is proof that a government cannot ban everything.

At the end of the day, the Aussie government beat their chest about these things to let game developers know that "yes, there IS a line" and that line is good taste.

I have no love for devs that cross that line. Companies that want to create "controversy" for the sake of sales and publicity are in my opinion, fishing for headlines to boost their bottom line.

To all you guys who think that scenes of "terrorists shooting innocent civillians in airports in cold blood", perhaps you should be looking at your own governments and wondering why the hell everyone seems to have forgotten terrorist atrocities of the last decade.

I sure as hell never forget. My best mate was killed by a terrorist in London in 2006. He was on life support for three weeks before he passed away.

Would the shoe be on the other foot if the other governments had objected to these sorts of games and Australia had merely turned the cheek?

Definitely.

I hate terrorism, I hate what it does, I hate the ideology. I hate the loss of life, I hate the triviality of mass murder of innocent life. I'm prepared to give up certain freedoms to stand shoulder to shoulder with people who share the same feelings I do, but when it comes time to (Australia) making a decision on our own on these issues, the very people we stand side by side with turn around and liken us to Communists and a bunch of pussies.

I tell you what, take a real good look at what you stand for and then ask who the pussies are. People harp on about hating terrorism but when it comes to a video game they endorse it on the basis of "freedoms".

Don't be hypocrites. Harden up and don't forget.

Now let me get back to my beer.

Cheers.

PS: Rest In Peace Sam Ly. Richmond 4 Life.

 

[FoolKiller]

I disagree with the first point you made. The legislation will not be covering file-sharing sites, so therefore, it can still be net accessed.

OK, they want to block certain sites that allow access to illegal content and/or items. Why on Earth do you think they won't add file sharing sites (assuming they contain things that fall under their content definitions) in the future? All it takes is someone pointing it out to them.

By back channels I mean that there are plenty of illegally imported sources that we can buy the physical game from with no hassles. You tend to make it sound like it will be easier to score heroin on the streets than it will a video game.

I do not care whether it will be easy or not or you will have access to it through other channels. The fact that a supposedly free society has their government not seeing a problem with interfering in this way is revolting ad extremely disappointing.

Secondly, an "R" rating for our games is simply not enough. Now I'm arguing this for the sake of argument, not because I agree with the censorship, but slapping sticker on a game is not going to prevent 6 year olds from playing it.

No, parents should stop a six-year-old from playing it. The rating should be so that a parent doesn't need to go through the effort of playing the game first to find out. The rating systems should not be used by the government to regulate who can play the game, but as a suggestion to parents. It works that way in the US through a voluntary system and when young kids do play an M rated game usually the parent knows or is too ignorant to be able to look at a computer.

Thirdly, how much further are they willing to go? Well I have no gripe against the government looking to ban access to child pornography and paedophilia. There's a lot of sick, disgusting, revolting stuff on the internet. Why shouldn't a government ban it?

It already is banned. Now they are going to filter what you can and can't look at. It is an invasion of privacy because they have to have, at a minimum, an automated system watching everything you do online in order to block this stuff. That means that if you look at perfectly legal stuff in the privacy of your own home, but don't want others to know, it isn't private any more.

Rubbish about "freedom of speech" and "freedom of choice" can never justify the presence of these things.

There is noting more important than freedom and your rights. No child pornography is not protected by free speech, as it violates the rights of the child, but your right to privacy is violated without just cause in their attempt to pre-emptively monitor your, and every citizen's, Internet usage.

And a game that portrays the shooting of unarmed civilians in cold blood "just to make a point" is in my opinion, poor taste.

👎

So, are you saying that a consenting adult with equally poor taste has no right to even play it?

They can't block Ebay or the like though can they?

They are the government. What can they not do if they decide to?

Back on topic, the internet is "unbannable". It's bigger than any single government, the presence of sick and deluded firetrucks that use the net for child porn, bestiality and whack $h!t is proof that a government cannot ban everything.

Nope, but I bet they can try to watch everything you do and attempt to block (note: not ban) access to those things.

At the end of the day, the Aussie government beat their chest about these things to let game developers know that "yes, there IS a line" and that line is good taste.

I have no love for devs that cross that line. Companies that want to create "controversy" for the sake of sales and publicity are in my opinion, fishing for headlines to boost their bottom line.

To all you guys who think that scenes of "terrorists shooting innocent civillians in airports in cold blood", perhaps you should be looking at your own governments and wondering why the hell everyone seems to have forgotten terrorist atrocities of the last decade.

I sure as hell never forget. My best mate was killed by a terrorist in London in 2006. He was on life support for three weeks before he passed away.

Would the shoe be on the other foot if the other governments had objected to these sorts of games and Australia had merely turned the cheek?

Definitely.

I will not support the banning or blocking of any media that does not require the violation of rights to create, no matter what country.

I have to assume you are ranting about Modern Warfare 2, and if I am reading correctly the issue there is the fact that it did get classified, and some nanny watchdog group wants it to be re-reviewed so that it can lose its classification.

Based on that, I have to assume that you are promoting the banning of a game so that not even consenting adults can play it because it contains one scene that you are opposed to for personal reasons. If I am wrong, please let me know.

I hate terrorism, I hate what it does, I hate the ideology. I hate the loss of life, I hate the triviality of mass murder of innocent life. I'm prepared to give up certain freedoms to stand shoulder to shoulder with people who share the same feelings I do, but when it comes time to (Australia) making a decision on our own on these issues, the very people we stand side by side with turn around and liken us to Communists and a bunch of pussies.

I am not sure I know what you are on about here. We are talking about media censorship.

I tell you what, take a real good look at what you stand for and then ask who the pussies are. People harp on about hating terrorism but when it comes to a video game they endorse it on the basis of "freedoms".

Again, what? Yes, the difference between allowing terrorism and allowing a game that may (I say may because you only know what you heard or saw of a leaked incomplete video and jumped to a conclusion) portray terrorism in a positive light is night and day. One is real and one is fake for storytelling purposes.

Don't be hypocrites. Harden up and don't forget.

Considering the amount of censorship terrorist groups would like to see imposed in their own countries...

 

[Jay]

Careful....

I drive a VL Turbo....



But no I'm not a wog and I've had my VL for near on 15 years!

And I own a HG Monaro GTS (for 10 years), I want the boguns gone too

 

[AERO_HDT]

+1

This is a good discussion, I do get a bit heated about things, especially since the issue of censorship has been brought up based on one scene from MW2.

I don't really have a leg to stand on, because I hate censorship and net-nannying as much as anyone else.

Now if Modern Warfare was a documentary and had nothing to do with a "video game" then nobody would have peeped a damn thing (the government and censorship board).

I can't understand why we don't have an R rating as it would appear that our foolish government classifies video-gaming as a children's pasttime, when in actuality, the average age of gamers in Australia is 32 years old.

To be fair to the developers, they do state that they felt it necessary to include the airport scene in the context of the game and to judge it before playing was unjust. I have not played MW2, so my judgement of the game being poor taste is wrong. Perhaps I should play it first and then see...

At the end of the day, there are far worse things that our government should be concerned about and the issues of what we watch and buy should not be dictated by them. Banning a video game essentially robs us of the choice to purchase it freely and I agree, once they start doing things like this, we end up the losers.

Sorry to rant, LOL.

PS: Jay, show us a pic of your Munro!

 

[Jay]

PS: Jay, show us a pic of your Munro!

Right now it is a unpainted shell and parts (and for the last 5+ years) under covers, a ever lasting project that I will complete one day. I got it at 18 (GTS 186S manual) when they were fairly cheap (pre monaro comeback) and fitted a 307 (auto) Chev in it, then a 350 chev (auto), then fitted a 4 speed manual, then.... decided I wanted to build it from scratch.... Back then for some reason everyone was into HQ onwards Monaros which I was pressured into getting but never folded.

Only pics I have of it prior to strip down are non digital (non digital??!), I can snap a couple pics under it's covers (won't see a whole lot) if I must.

Sorry for the off topic.

 

[Jay]

Sorry for the double post but


http://www.inquisitr.com/59472/mill...an-gov-bans-small-breasts-female-ejaculation/

 

[DK]

Internet censorship? Who do Australia's government think they are, China's government?

 

[Public'sTwin]

The women of Australia are quite upset with this, understandably.

If my government said, "Sorry, you can't work as an adult because the body you were born with incites pedophiles to commit heinous atrocities", I'd be a little riled as well.

 

[Thiele]

If this censorship stuff is true, why has there been nothing in the media about it?

 

[Danisfast]

If this goes through, it will be a sad day for Western civilisation... The only ones who really lose out through all of this is the average Joes like you and I; I feel more and more helpless as I see airport security getting tighter, the internet being monitored and controlled, and freedoms and trust breaking down in the face of security... Maybe we should actually become uncivilised if that the assumption the governments are making anyway?
Does anyone remember the Patriot Act? (Sigh...)

 

[FoolKiller]

If this censorship stuff is true, why has there been nothing in the media about it?

Likely because your two biggest news sources (or so they seem from the outside), ABC and SBS, are government owned and your privately owned broadcasters are protected by government from foreign competition according to the 1992 Broadcasting Act, which disallows foreign control of broadcasters and limits foreign ownership of firms to 20% or less.

In other words, your media is in the government's pocket.

Despite that there is some Australian coverage to be found, but you have to look for it.

Regarding censorship of election commentary:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...-election-debate/story-e6frf7l6-1225826073800

UPDATE 11.37PM: ATTORNEY-GENERAL Michael Atkinson has made a "humiliating'' backdown and said he would retrospectively repeal his law censoring internet comment on the state election.

He released a statement saying: "From the feedback we've received through AdelaideNow, the blogging generation believes that the law supported by all MPs and all political parties is unduly restrictive.

"I have listened.

"I will immediately, after the election, move to repeal the law retrospectively.

"It may be humiliating for me, but that's politics in a democracy and I'll take my lumps. This way, no one need fear now that they are being censored on the net or in blogs, whether they blog under their own name or anonymously. The law will be repealed retrospectively.

"I call upon all the other political parties who supported this review to also review their position.''

Earlier, South Australian laws censoring anonymous political comment on the internet sparked national and international outrage, with readers comparing the "draconian laws'' to those in Nazi Germany and China.

Nearly 1000 people posted comments on the AdelaideNow website - most vehemently against the Rann Government's legislation which would have forced internet bloggers and anyone publishing a comment on next month's state election to supply their real name and postcode.

An Internet protest against Internet censorhsip:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/25/2800265.htm?section=justin

Internet to fade to black in filter protest

Posted Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:27am AEDT

The Greens say their website will fade to black on Australia Day as part of a nationwide protest against the Federal Government's proposed internet filter.

The Federal Government wants to pass laws to force internet service providers to block banned material hosted on overseas servers, but its decision to press ahead with compulsory internet filtering has come under fire from lobby groups and the Greens.

Communications Minister Stephen Conroy says he intends to introduce legislation in the first half of 2010.

Greens Senator Scott Ludlam says he believes more than 500 websites will take part in what is being dubbed 'The Great Australian Internet Blackout'.

The Federal Government's proposed internet filter would force all internet service providers to block "Refused Classification" material.

Mr Conroy says the Government will not determine what is blacklisted on the internet in Australia - rather, an independent body will determine what sites are rated as RC for Refused Classification.

He says the Government will take steps to ensure the filter is transparent and people know why material is being blocked - this may include measures which allow people to appeal the decision to block a page, and notifications to websites that they have been blocked.

But Electronic Frontiers Australia, which monitors online freedoms and rights, has said the Government's plan is flawed.

"Although it may address some technical issues, what it leaves out is far more important," Electronic Frontiers Australia vice chairman Colin Jacobs said.

"Exactly what will be blocked? Who will decide and why is it being attempted in the first place?"

In March, an alleged list of about 1,000 sites already banned by the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) was leaked online, revealing that harmless sites had also been marked as unacceptable.

Nine ISPs originally agreed to take part but iiNet pulled out of the trial in March, saying the filter would not work and was a "dead parrot".

However, Optus joined the trial in April.

The China vs Google spat causes questions to be asked about Australia:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/goog...-on-local-censorship-plans-20100115-mb5y.html

Google's China move puts focus on local censorship plans
CHRIS ZAPPONE
January 15, 2010

Comments 10
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An Australian internet rights group has applauded Google’s possible pull-out from China over censorship issues, drawing a link to Australia’s proposed plan to block parts of the internet.

“We’re certainly happy and supportive that technology companies like Google are asserting that this is a bad idea globally,” said Electronic Frontiers Australia spokesperson Geordie Guy.

Google’s surprise announcement that it will no longer comply with Chinese censorship demands and may exit China, comes weeks before a proposed internet-blocking plan will be introduced into parliament in Canberra.

The search-engine giant's stance brings more global attention on the Australian government's position on internet filtering.

“We’re concerned that Australia is following the sorts of precedents set down by countries like China and Iran that have maintained internet censorship,” said Mr Guy.

He said Australia’s proposed plan resembles China’s original censorship regime which blocked banned content at the internet service provider-level.

A spokesman for Communications Minister Stephen Conroy said the nature of China’s censorship and plans to block Refused Classification, or banned sites, in Australia “are vastly different concepts”.

Under current law, child sex abuse, bestiality, sexual violence websites hosted in Australia are subject to take-down notices by the Australian Communications and Media Authority.

The proposed ISP blocking, however, would be aimed at offensive sites hosted overseas, Senator Conroy’s office said, with the sites compiled through a public complaints mechanism.

“ISP filtering reduces the risk of Australians being inadvertently exposed to RC-rated material when they are online,” Senator Conroy said in December, when unveiling the legislation.

Google Australia said it was too early to say what impact the announcement on China would have on its Australian operations, although it was aware of Australia’s plans for a blocking regime.

“We support a free and open internet and are watching the government's proposal for a filtering regime closely,” said a spokesperson for Google Australia.

EFA’s Mr Guy said the technical proposal is flawed and “attacks the wrong end of the problem”.

Using the parallel of illicit drugs, it “is more akin to sending a government official around to each person who might purchase drugs for use” rather than going after dealers and distributors.

Technology advocates and industry sources claim ISP-filtering in Western democracies actually encourages repressive regimes to seek similar blocking in their countries.

And the games issue has even caused a new political party to start up to fight Michael Atkinson.
http://www.gamers4croydon.org/

 

[Famine]

The women of Australia are quite upset with this, understandably.

If my government said, "Sorry, you can't work as an adult because the body you were born with incites pedophiles to commit heinous atrocities", I'd a little riled as well.

When I see a naked woman with A-cup breasts, I don't instantly think about having it off with a child. That Senator Barnaby Joyce does indicates a moral problem in his behalf, not that of the people of Australia.

 

[Jay]

To think I ran into Michael Atkinson a few months ago in the city, I could have ended a lot of problems then and there (jk)


but of course then they would say GTA 4 inspired me....

 

[Danisfast]

Likely because your two biggest news sources (or so they seem from the outside), ABC and SBS, are government owned and your privately owned broadcasters are protected by government from foreign competition according to the 1992 Broadcasting Act, which disallows foreign control of broadcasters and limits foreign ownership of firms to 20% or less.

In other words, your media is in the government's pocket.

Despite that there is some Australian coverage to be found, but you have to look for it.

Regarding censorship of election commentary:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...-election-debate/story-e6frf7l6-1225826073800




An Internet protest against Internet censorhsip:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/25/2800265.htm?section=justin




The China vs Google spat causes questions to be asked about Australia:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/goog...-on-local-censorship-plans-20100115-mb5y.html




And the games issue has even caused a new political party to start up to fight Michael Atkinson.
http://www.gamers4croydon.org/

I thought he (Thiele) was joking!

 

[Public'sTwin]

When I see a naked woman with A-cup breasts, I don't instantly think about having it off with a child. That Senator Barnaby Joyce does indicates a moral problem in his behalf, not that of the people of Australia.

Indeed; his presumption of the moral character of his fellow countrymen is arrogant, to say the least.

 

[Northstar]

So I guess Australia won't be taking the "Fashion capitol of the world" title any time soon.

(Really, could female models be any smaller)

 

[Keef]

I thought he (Thiele) was joking!

It seems that way with Australia sometimes. Their government is becoming a laughing stock around the world. The funny part is, they elected these guys, and now all hell is breaking loose, and they're too busy grilling ribs, drinking beer, and fighting each other to give a hoot.

I realize I'm rough on Australia as a whole, and I don't mean to single out any particular person, I'm just saying that from my end that's really, honestly what it seems like. I wish somebody in Australia would do something to change my perception of the country's government.

 

[Pvt Zac]

Would this whole great firewall of china-ralia affect ping times for New Zealand to the rest of the world?

Because some internet data coming to NZ passes by australia, and i often play online games on australian servers.

 

[Keef]

According to the link Jay posted, the current Australian filter has indeed effected speed by whatever degree, so notching the bannings up from tens of thousands to tens of millions could possibly have an effect readily noticeable by all users.

 

[Jay]

The funny part is, they elected these guys

It's Lose-lose, all the political partys are like this, we changed the last party after they introduced GST (not for the better I can tell you) and started giving big business a lot more unfair powers over employees so we dropped them come election. Now we have this. It's the Australia way. Some people are trying to oppose it but most people take no notice and do as their told.

Yes sir, splendid idea sir *bends over*.

 

[Thiele]

Likely because your two biggest news sources (or so they seem from the outside), ABC and SBS, are government owned and your privately owned broadcasters are protected by government from foreign competition according to the 1992 Broadcasting Act, which disallows foreign control of broadcasters and limits foreign ownership of firms to 20% or less.

In other words, your media is in the government's pocket.

Despite that there is some Australian coverage to be found, but you have to look for it.

Regarding censorship of election commentary:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...-election-debate/story-e6frf7l6-1225826073800




An Internet protest against Internet censorhsip:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/25/2800265.htm?section=justin




The China vs Google spat causes questions to be asked about Australia:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/goog...-on-local-censorship-plans-20100115-mb5y.html




And the games issue has even caused a new political party to start up to fight Michael Atkinson.
http://www.gamers4croydon.org/

This still doesn't add up. When they do try to keep things quiet, it usually gets out. It is true though Kevin Rudd has the media in his pocket. Passing laws though aren't usually kept secret.

I thought he (Thiele) was joking!

Dead serious, nothing in the paper, TV, etc what so ever.

It seems that way with Australia sometimes. Their government is becoming a laughing stock around the world. The funny part is, they elected these guys, and now all hell is breaking loose, and they're too busy grilling ribs, drinking beer, and fighting each other to give a hoot.

I realize I'm rough on Australia as a whole, and I don't mean to single out any particular person, I'm just saying that from my end that's really, honestly what it seems like. I wish somebody in Australia would do something to change my perception of the country's government.

Hopefully they will be kicked out this year. That might change your perception.

Surely this will be outvoted in the senate? And surely the opposition won't support it. Are you sure it won't just be blocked like the ETS?