Australians | Are they racist and/or xenophobic?

[mustafur]

When the tag line to that initiative was "Stop the Boats", you'd have to say yes.

To be fair though, thousands of Refugee lives where lost riding on those Boats that could barely float.

 

[phillgt2002]

So, you're telling me that if I go to Australia, I'll get chased by angry Australian skin-heads? Count me in!! I'll probably get kicked by some kangaroos... which also have an history with racism.

 

[Mike Rotch]

To be fair though, thousands of Refugee lives where lost riding on those Boats that could barely float.

Not meaning to be pedantic, but is that backed up by any source? I'd also suggest their concern was winning votes by scaremongering the public, rather than the welfare of the refugees - if the conditions in detention are anything to judge by.

 

[LeMansAid]

When the tag line to that initiative was "Stop the Boats", you'd have to say yes.

No. So far we have asylum seekers and boats in the policy, but no mention of race at all, let alone that the policy will discriminate based on it. You think they let people through to the US from Mexico willy nilly if they're anglo? The policy is separate from the likely fact that almost all would be Mexicans trying to cross.

But if you think that perception is reality, then you've actually just given justification to many a racist to continue their racism.

 

[mustafur]

Not meaning to be pedantic, but is that backed up by any source? I'd also suggest their concern was winning votes by scaremongering the public, rather than the welfare of the refugees - if the conditions in detention are anything to judge by.

Well here is a Timeline: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/07/17/timeline-asylum-seeker-boat-tragedies

Count it yourself.
I counted 1098, but this all goes by boats that the government knows of, i would assume that many would of sunk without report simply due to the fact the Boat has to be Found before they know if it's refugees or not simply due to the illegal nature of what is happening in the first place.

 

[Mike Rotch]

But if you think that perception is reality, then you've actually just given justification to many a racist to continue their racism.

For the general Australian voting public, perception is reality; otherwise the past and present government's short termist dog whistling policies wouldn't win so many votes - which confirms the initial opinion of the OP. Without it, Labour wouldn't have been pointing at skilled visa holders and saying they were "stealing Australian's jobs" in working class voting districts.

As for your "connect the dots" logic, unless I invented the concept of perception, I haven't justified anything.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So far we have asylum seekers and boats in the policy, but no mention of race at all, let alone that the policy will discriminate based on it.

The policy discriminates against anyone in the boats. It assumes that anyone who arrives via boat is illegal and has surrendered their rights. It dehumanises them, and our government is relying on our willingness to look the other way.

Read the thread title - this is not just about racism, but xenophobia. And our treatment of asylum seekers is, at the very least, xenophobic.

 

[mustafur]

The policy discriminates against anyone in the boats. It assumes that anyone who arrives via boat is illegal and has surrendered their rights. It dehumanises them, and our government is relying on our willingness to look the other way.

Read the thread title - this is not just about racism, but xenophobia. And our treatment of asylum seekers is, at the very least, xenophobic.

I would say what the Boat operators are doing is definitely illegal though, taking advantage of a tough situation for the refugee and giving them the lowest cheapest quality vessel to get hope of Asylum.

 

[GTboyz]

A friend of mine has just come back to the UK after living in Perth for two years. One of his comments about living there is that the population is amazingly racist in the most amazingly casual of ways.

Given that he returned to a job in one of Greater London's police forces, it must have been impressive for him to notice.

Really ? I visited Perth a few times and hell i never find any racists or even signs of racism

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I would say what the Boat operators are doing is definitely illegal though, taking advantage of a tough situation for the refugee and giving them the lowest cheapest quality vessel to get hope of Asylum.

Don't get me wrong; what they're doing is illegal. But two wrongs don't make a right.

Let's put it this way: if there was a riot at Silverwater jail, then there would be a judicial review. The public would be informed of what happened, why, and the steps the authorities intended to take to prevent it from happening again. The whole process would be open and subject to accountability.

But when there is a riot on Manus Island, the government hides behind "national security". Nobody is allowed access to the facility. Nobody has any idea what is happening there. And it has been suggested that things could be so bad that Abbott, Morrisson and Dutton could have a case to answer before the International Criminal Court. But rather than subject themselves to the same constraints of transparency that they would expect of anyone else, the government refuses to comment except to drop hints that the asylum seekers are responsible for the conditions.

I have often been accused of being a bleeding-heart liberal for my stance on asylum seekers; of wanting to throw open the borders to anyone and everyone who shows up. But that is not even close to the truth - I believe in border security, but I also believe in treating asylum seekers with dignity.

 

[mustafur]

Don't get me wrong; what they're doing is illegal. But two wrongs don't make a right.

Let's put it this way: if there was a riot at Silverwater jail, then there would be a judicial review. The public would be informed of what happened, why, and the steps the authorities intended to take to prevent it from happening again. The whole process would be open and subject to accountability.

But when there is a riot on Manus Island, the government hides behind "national security". Nobody is allowed access to the facility. Nobody has any idea what is happening there. And it has been suggested that things could be so bad that Abbott, Morrisson and Dutton could have a case to answer before the International Criminal Court. But rather than subject themselves to the same constraints of transparency that they would expect of anyone else, the government refuses to comment except to drop hints that the asylum seekers are responsible for the conditions.

I have often been accused of being a bleeding-heart liberal for my stance on asylum seekers; of wanting to throw open the borders to anyone and everyone who shows up. But that is not even close to the truth - I believe in border security, but I also believe in treating asylum seekers with dignity.

The thing is though its two wrongs based on something that can only be solved by opening up the borders.

Because we are an Island nation our Ability to take in Refugees is severely compromised compared to other nations who don't have this issue.

I guess making some kind of Refugee Airport terminal or something would be the best solution here, and give them a Working Visa once they file their Protection Visa(which affectively means Permanent Resident) allowing them to work while the long process of getting it Approved takes place.

 

[Grayfox]

So, you're telling me that if I go to Australia, I'll get chased by angry Australian skin-heads? Count me in!! I'll probably get kicked by some kangaroos... which also have an history with racism.

Our kangaroos and koalas just have a hatred of tourists

 

[McLaren]

From my last 10 years taking in the Aussies that populate the forum & in the news, I've come to the conclusion that Aussies seem to typically be talkative, obnoxious, carefree, & overall friendly folks who are very proud of their land. The most I've seen from them on the topic of racism is seems to be aimed at Lebanese/Middle Easterners due to the Cronulla riots; usually slang words I have never heard. After the recent hostage situation though, a lot of the tension has been redirected towards Muslims now.

I know there's a big history of them & the aborigines, but I haven't read up on it & most of the Aussies folks I've met rarely make mention of them; goes a bit hand-in-hand with Keef's statement, "that's just the way it is" because they just sort of acknowledge that they exist, but that's it.

 

[jimipitbull]

Australia is made up of many, if not all races. Australian is a state of mind, not a race.

My next door neighbour is a muslim from India. He is more Australian than most Australians.

If that's racist, then I win.

 

[LeMansAid]

As for your "connect the dots" logic, unless I invented the concept of perception, I haven't justified anything.

Your process of experience feeding perception, and perception feeding conclusion (reality) is the same as what forms most racist views.

Laws/policies/rules are not racist unless race is addressed in them. Implementation of laws/policies/rules is not racist unless the process considers race.

The policy discriminates against anyone in the boats. It assumes that anyone who arrives via boat is illegal and has surrendered their rights. It dehumanises them, and our government is relying on our willingness to look the other way.

I've not heard of any case where an otherwise legitimate arrival was denied because the person came on a boat. Have you? A genuine refugee is a legitimate arrival, but I doubt that anyone could argue that in general the legitimacy would be immediately apparent.

Read the thread title - this is not just about racism, but xenophobia. And our treatment of asylum seekers is, at the very least, xenophobic.

Unless you think that all people should be allowed in to the country for an indefinite period of time, no questions asked, there would be people that would see your viiews as xenophobic. That's the thing about opinion.

My opinion? I dare say that the government is just as inefficient with processing detainees as they are with doing most other things, and that's idiotic, and a tragedy. When the same result could be had within a shorter period of time, but it doesn't happen, there's both money and mentally stable prospective citizens at stake. But to look at the ethnicities that are represented in Australian society and then call the asylum seeker policy xenophobic is ridiculous. Especially if using the rest of the world as the comparative yard stick. It's a policy against illegal entry to Australia, that gives no consideration to ethnicity. So while the policy is sound, the implementation of it is inhumane and inefficient, but is still not racist and also no more xenophobic than anyone else's.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I've not heard of any case where an otherwise legitimate arrival was denied because the person came on a boat. Have you?

Of course I haven't - the government refuses to discuss any element of it.

 

[Imari]

I've not heard of any case where an otherwise legitimate arrival was denied because the person came on a boat. Have you? A genuine refugee is a legitimate arrival, but I doubt that anyone could argue that in general the legitimacy would be immediately apparent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_affair

Otherwise, prisonermonkeys is right. There's very little transparency in what goes on with regards to refugee arrivals. The government keeps everything hush hush under the name of national security.

It's a policy against illegal entry to Australia, that gives no consideration to ethnicity. So while the policy is sound, the implementation of it is inhumane and inefficient, but is still not racist and also no more xenophobic than anyone else's.

It's not racist.

It is xenophobic, in that it tends to stress keeping the foreigners out of Australia far more than one would expect given humanitarian concerns. To the extent that the Howard government at least was willing to let people die at sea as long as they don't reach Australian waters.

Subsequent governments have gone back and forth on how rigorously they implement their policies, but essentially it remains much the same. I don't know what other governments do, but if they're willing to kill to keep foreign refugees out of their country I'd call that xenophobic too.

Just because everyone's doing it doesn't make it right. See any number of examples from history.

 

[LeMansAid]

It's not racist.

It is xenophobic, in that it tends to stress keeping the foreigners out of Australia far more than one would expect given humanitarian concerns. To the extent that the Howard government at least was willing to let people die at sea as long as they don't reach Australian waters.

I think that people in general (and by extension, the government - or vice versa) are more caught up on the how rather than the if. "If" being more a judge of levels of xenophobia, and I think we're mostly ok with the if.

I do think I lose track though, I'm only very rarely reminded of the disgusting attitudes that do exist out there. My circle is a far flung reality in comparison.

Personally I don't care if over time Australia is every colour in the skin rainbow, or all one colour. It would be a damn shame if that population didn't have something at least close to the current "state of mind" as @jimipitbull puts it though.

 

[Carbonox]

I'm not sure why the entire boat refugee deal is still such a topic for debate around here. It is not a human rights violation if illegal refugees are turned away, into another safe nation nearby.

If anything, allowing boat refugees in will only mean more will attempt the same, and in the worst case scenario, there would be an illegal immigrant flood like there is on the Mediterranean at this very moment.

 

[kikie]

The only Australian I met seems to be ok and not a racist and certainly not xenophobic.

 

[jimipitbull]

Australia has a senator called Nick Xenophon.

Some say he only drives German cars.

True story.

 

[Imari]

I'm not sure why the entire boat refugee deal is still such a topic for debate around here. It is not a human rights violation if illegal refugees are turned away, into another safe nation nearby.

If anything, allowing boat refugees in will only mean more will attempt the same, and in the worst case scenario, there would be an illegal immigrant flood like there is on the Mediterranean at this very moment.

You're right.

Unfortunately, there have been cases like the Tampa where the refugees could not make it to another safe nation nearby. Because let's be honest, Australia isn't really that close to anywhere. It's quite a long way to Indonesia, where most of these boats seem to come from, and the vessels they're in tend not to be that seaworthy. That's probably part penny-pinching on the part of the smugglers, and part intentional so that the boats are actually unable to return.

If it was a land border, you'd turf them back over the other side and be done with it. But you can't just throw people outside Australia's borders, because they're in the middle of the ocean.

This is the main problem. There aren't safe nations nearby. This is how the refugees end up in camps on Nauru. Or drowning.

And this is why Australia is a different case to many other countries. Most places have a land border. Australia doesn't.

 

[mustafur]

You're right.

Unfortunately, there have been cases like the Tampa where the refugees could not make it to another safe nation nearby. Because let's be honest, Australia isn't really that close to anywhere. It's quite a long way to Indonesia, where most of these boats seem to come from, and the vessels they're in tend not to be that seaworthy. That's probably part penny-pinching on the part of the smugglers, and part intentional so that the boats are actually unable to return.

If it was a land border, you'd turf them back over the other side and be done with it. But you can't just throw people outside Australia's borders, because they're in the middle of the ocean.

This is the main problem. There aren't safe nations nearby. This is how the refugees end up in camps on Nauru. Or drowning.

And this is why Australia is a different case to many other countries. Most places have a land border. Australia doesn't.

It makes it extremely difficult to then make policy's on it, unless you just want to open the floodgates and allow every illegal vessel to just came in as they please what choice do you have?

Allowing the illegal smuggling industry is allowing the refugees to play Russian roulette with their lives to get freedom.

 

[Dotini]

There are not many Australians in Seattle, so I can't offer an opinion on the OP.

But, a little off-topic, I offer this interesting video of the mysterious Black Mountain, Queensland.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I would say Australia is not racist in the sense of barring people from their rights or livelihoods just because they are of different ethnicity.

I have two categories for racism: hard racism and soft/petty racism

Hard racism would be denying someone a service or right just because they are of different ethnicity/religion to you.

Soft would be the shop keep having an eye on the minority youth while the old white lady is actually stealing something. True story, while I worked at Office Depot, I caught two old white women attempting to shop lift, even though my manager tried to make me keep an eye on any black customers that looked "shady".

Of course jokes using race as it's punch fall under this category to me, but I personally don't get fussed over racist jokes between friends of different backgrounds ethnic wise.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It is xenophobic, in that it tends to stress keeping the foreigners out of Australia far more than one would expect given humanitarian concerns. To the extent that the Howard government at least was willing to let people die at sea as long as they don't reach Australian waters.

Subsequent governments have gone back and forth on how rigorously they implement their policies, but essentially it remains much the same. I don't know what other governments do, but if they're willing to kill to keep foreign refugees out of their country I'd call that xenophobic too.

With any luck, their days are numbered. In the past year, the coalition has gained Tasmania, but they've lost South Australia and Victoria, and they're faced with a record swing to lose Queensland. They're unlikely to lose New South Wales despite the corruption inquiries claiming a dozen scalps, but the federal coalition cannot afford to ignore this.

But that's the problem when you fundamentally underestimate what the people want. Abbott says he was elected "to make the tough decisions", but he wasn't. He was elected simply because he was the lesser evil at the time, but I am willing to bet that a lot of people are reconsidering that now. Since getting into office, all he has done is govern for the people who voted for him and ignored the rest. Now he's started governing to stay in power.

With any luck, he'll be laughed out of The Lodge and whoever takes over will have the decency and the good sense to open Manus Island up to scrutiny.

I'm not sure why the entire boat refugee deal is still such a topic for debate around here. It is not a human rights violation if illegal refugees are turned away, into another safe nation nearby.

It's a violation of international maritime law if a boat that is in distress is not towed to the nearest port. By towing them back to Indonesia, we have broken that law and violated Indonesian territorial waters.

All of this came to a head when a ship was intercepted outside our waters last year without ever entering it, at which point the asylum seekers were detained without charge for a month before being transferred elsewhere.

 

[Grayfox]

It's a violation of international maritime law if a boat that is in distress is not towed to the nearest port. By towing them back to Indonesia, we have broken that law and violated Indonesian territorial waters.

All of this came to a head when a ship was intercepted outside our waters last year without ever entering it, at which point the asylum seekers were detained without charge for a month before being transferred elsewhere.

I remember hearing about how the australian navy detained some indon fishermen, sank their boat because they thought they were fishing in australian waters when they were in international.

Kind says something about this counties navy.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Don't believe everything you hear.

 

[Imari]

He was elected simply because he was the lesser evil at the time...

This has been a pretty big problem in Australian politics for some time. There are no good leaders, only less bad ones.

 

[Grayfox]

This has been a pretty big problem in Australian politics for some time. There are no good leaders, only less bad ones.

And most australian voters never learn.

They go between labor and liberal each election cycle.