Australians | Are they racist and/or xenophobic?

[Scaff]

If I was to relocate country, I would keep my belief and my way of life at my home, I would also try fit into their culture for social purposes, I may not like all of it but I would try at least,

However, prior to relocating I would research that country and find out what their culture and how their ways of life are before moving, if I knew I wouldn't like it I wouldn't go,

For example, because I swear and curse for all eternity when I stub my toe at home, doesn't mean I'm going to swear and curse when I did it in public, for the respect that swears and curses can be offensive to others,

So its the third one then.

OK so we have established that only the cultural norms of the host country are acceptable outside of the home for you. Now who gets to decide these cultural norms and how do you enforce them? Are they the Polynesian, Maori or European ones?

You see I'm fairly sure that while for you its a cultural norm to not swear outside the home, for a good number of your fellow countrymen its a cultural norm to swear any place they like. Given that who's right, you or them?

This is the issue with this kind of approach, who gets to decide what norms are and how do you ensure that they don't cause offence?

Its an impossible standard and also a quite unrealistic one, why should other cultural norms be a problem be they in the home or outside as long as they meet the laws of the country and do not impact on the rights of others? I'm not religious (quite the opposite) yet I have no issue if someone wants to head outside wearing a cross, a turban,
Shalwar Kameez, Kippah, etc. Its doesn't impact me one little bit and I have no logical or reasonable reason to stop them doing so.

 

[Cobra_GT500]

I really don't see the reason of this lol. I'm with TDZ on this. You don't come to another country and not respect there beliefs. If I went to India or a religious country I would respect there beleifs. If you don't have a problem @Scaff thats fine but if I were to go to Bahrain and drink that would be illegal now if I come to Australia and wonder why people are drinking i would have done a bit of research about the country before moving. Also I thought we were a multi cultural country anyway. Also I beilieve people with the full body cover up should not be aloud to wear them. We are in Australia not wherever you come from. But when you go back to your country feel free to wear it.

 

[TDZdave]

You see I'm fairly sure that while for you its a cultural norm to not swear outside the home, for a good number of your fellow countrymen its a cultural norm to swear any place they like. Given that who's right, you or them?

Swearing is classified as offensive language, and in the state of South Australia its a cash penalty if the officer is aware of what he is doing, so no its not a normal thing to do,

Its an impossible standard and also a quite unrealistic one, why should other cultural norms be a problem be they in the home or outside as long as they meet the laws of the country and do not impact on the rights of others? I'm not religious (quite the opposite) yet I have no issue if someone wants to head outside wearing a cross, a turban

Because as a refugee or illegal immigrant I believe that your guilty until proven innocent and therefore don't deserve rights,

I also couldn't care what they wear or do, as long as, they respect proprietors dress codes, (which goes for the general population) don't force their way of life down our throats, and don't go blowing themselves up because they haven't gotten their own way,

 

[Grayfox]

Swearing is classified as offensive language, and in the state of South Australia its a cash penalty if the officer is aware of what he is doing, so no its not a normal thing to do,

In NSW you can get a fine as well.

But they may warn you before.

Also depends on the situation.

If you were in a car accident and were swearing they may understand, but if they pulled you over and you were swearing, they may fine you.

 

[Scaff]

I really don't see the reason of this lol. I'm with TDZ on this. You don't come to another country and not respect there beliefs. If I went to India or a religious country I would respect there beleifs. If you don't have a problem @Scaff thats fine but if I were to go to Bahrain and drink that would be illegal now if I come to Australia and wonder why people are drinking i would have done a bit of research about the country before moving.

That would be why I have already (and repeatedly) said:

"People should be free to express the culture and beliefs they have as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of other people (and when it does you will normally find that those damn politicians have put rules in place to deal with it already)."

Oh and you might want to pick a better example in future, its legal to drink in Bahrain as long as you are not Muslim and over 21. .

Also I thought we were a multi cultural country anyway. Also I beilieve people with the full body cover up should not be aloud to wear them. We are in Australia not wherever you come from. But when you go back to your country feel free to wear it.

Why should they not be allowed to wear it?

How exactly does it affect you?

Swearing is classified as offensive language, and in the state of South Australia its a cash penalty if the officer is aware of what he is doing, so no its not a normal thing to do,

Are you honestly saying that in Australia and New Zealand no social groups would consider swearing in public to be a cultural norm?

Because as a refugee or illegal immigrant I believe that your guilty until proven innocent and therefore don't deserve rights,

Illegal immigrants are breaking the law by definition (the clue is in the name), refugees are not. Stop conflating the two, they are not the same at all.

I also couldn't care what they wear or do, as long as, they respect proprietors dress codes, (which goes for the general population) don't force their way of life down our throats, and don't go blowing themselves up because they haven't gotten their own way,

Which is a 180 from your original comments, so you I'm sure can understand why your shifting position is rather confusing.

Oh and I'm not aware of any group for which blowing yourself up is a cultural norm (you wouldn't be doing that applying the actions of a criminal few to a larger group would you).

 

[TDZdave]

Which is a 180 from your original comments, so you I'm sure can understand why your shifting position is rather confusing.

How is it? All I ask is that they keep their problems to themselves, which is what I have said all along, perhaps my Australian lingo is hard for you to decipher,

 

[Cobra_GT500]

@Scaff they banned Alcahol in Bahrain drinking in public is illegal but you can do so in your hotel room if you ar not Muslim. I'm also pretty sure there is a time in Bahrain where Alcahol cannot be served to anyone including tourists during Ramadam I think it was. Also V8 supercars aren't aloud to promote Alcahol when they race over there.

 

[Scaff]

How is it? All I ask is that they keep their problems to themselves, which is what I have said all along, perhaps my Australian lingo is hard for you to decipher,

You first said that it had to be kept in the home, now its fine as long as it doesn't affect others.

That's quite a difference, so no its not "my Australian lingo is hard for you to decipher" (and please drop the passive aggressive digs) its a rather fundamental change.

@Scaff they banned Alcahol in Bahrain drinking in public is illegal but you can do so in your hotel room if you ar not Muslim. I'm also pretty sure there is a time in Bahrain where Alcahol cannot be served to anyone including tourists during Ramadam I think it was. Also V8 supercars aren't aloud to promote Alcahol when they race over there.

Which is not a blanket ban on alcohol in Bahrain (as you stated) . I know because I've drunk alcohol in Bahrain as well as a number of other Muslim countries. Aside from which its a straw-man argument anyway.

 

[Ibonibo]

Oxymoron in the title...

Racism is a form of xenophobia, just limited to race.

If you're racist, you're automaticlly xenophobic....

On the subject: I do not know Australians well enough to judge a whole population.

 

[mistersafeway]

Oxymoron in the title...

Racism is a form of xenophobia, just limited to race.

If you're racist, you're automaticlly xenophobic....

On the subject: I do not know Australians well enough to judge a whole population.

Tautology. Oxymoron means sharpblunt, and it's words that don't go together, like saying an object is slippery and sticky... or sharp and blunt.

I had an on topic response, but I didn't work out a way to say everything I wanted and still make sense, but the meat of it was 'probably, because I doubt there are many nations without a fairly high amount of racists.' One of the main reasons I don't like to go outside during the day actually, bigots everywhere.

 

[Tornado]

Oxymoron in the title...

Racism is a form of xenophobia, just limited to race.

If you're racist, you're automaticlly xenophobic....

What led you to believe any of that was true? Racism can be a result of xenophobia (look at the anti-Arab/Muslim sentiment following 9/11), and xenophobia can most definitely be caused by racism (how many people in America use "Mexican" as a synonym for "Hispanic immigrant"), and there are certainly a lot of times that they overlap; but the two things are pretty distinct from each other. I'm not going to mistrust Eastern Europeans living in America because I'm racist, and I'm not going to mistrust black people because I'm afraid of foreigners. I may mistrust Hispanic people because of both, however.

 

[Com Fox]

I'll have to agree with @Scaff I really don't get the problem with people living their culture and beliefs unless if it interfered with ours. If I went to Japan and started drinking at 18 because that is how Australia works. That is interfering. However if it isn't against Japanese's rules. I believe it's ok to live like an Australian. I'm not going to Japan to turn Japanese but because of many other reasons, (work, better money etc) and I would welcome others to do the same here, if a Japanese person came here and went on to live like he would in Japan, if it isn't conflicting our rules, I'll say its fine.

 

[Carbonox]

A little late, BTW, but I voted "None at all" not only because I think turning boat refugees away is not inherently xenophobic, but also as a protest for the fact that questions like these are never frowned upon because they're directed at Westerners who are "in a privileged position", but I bet if someone opened a thread asking if all Arabs are terrorists (equally bad assumption to what this thread's title says) it would create a major uproar...

 

[Imari]

...if a Japanese person came here and went on to live like he would in Japan, if it isn't conflicting our rules, I'll say its fine.

And if they were to do stuff that does conflict with general Japanese culture? What then? Plenty of ignorant westerners in Japan talking on their cellphones in trains, skipping queues, wearing shoes indoors, and generally behaving in ways that are considered wildly inconsiderate by your average Japanese.

Trust me, I've done it. I lived in Japan, and in public I generally attempted to behave as a Japanese person would behave, because that's what's expected. I failed heaps, but at least I tried. Had I just said "🤬 it, I'm just gonna be Australian, screw these guys", I think that would have been a massive 🤬 move.

...I bet if someone opened a thread asking if all Arabs are terrorists (equally bad assumption to what this thread's title says) it would create a major uproar...

Except that's a misinterpretation of the question being asked. The thread title is not asking "is every single Australian racist and/or xenophobic", because that's immediately falsifiable by finding one non-racist Australian.

Hello, nice to meet you.

The real question is "does Australia have a disproportionately high number of racists and/or xenophobes".

If someone were to start a thread asking the question "are there a disproportionately high number of terrorists among Arabs", that might actually be interesting. Arabs and Muslims seem to get the news a lot, but it's not like there's not school shootings and biker gangs and all sorts of other stuff going on for other races as well. A well-reasoned argument for whether a random Arab is statistically more or less likely to be a "terrorist" (defined however) than a random caucasian would be quite interesting, I think.

Some people might lose their 🤬, but it would be a valid topic of discussion.

 

[Carbonox]

Except that's a misinterpretation of the question being asked. The thread title is not asking "is every single Australian racist and/or xenophobic", because that's immediately falsifiable by finding one non-racist Australian.

Hello, nice to meet you.

The real question is "does Australia have a disproportionately high number of racists and/or xenophobes".

The wording "Australians | Are they racist and/or xenophobic" doesn't contain the word "all" but it still implies generalization. And now that I think of it, it's rather odd to ask it in a poll where anyone in the world can answer, including those who haven't been to Australia in the first place.

If someone were to start a thread asking the question "are there a disproportionately high number of terrorists among Arabs", that might actually be interesting. Arabs and Muslims seem to get the news a lot, but it's not like there's not school shootings and biker gangs and all sorts of other stuff going on for other races as well. A well-reasoned argument for whether a random Arab is statistically more or less likely to be a "terrorist" (defined however) than a random caucasian would be quite interesting, I think.

Some people might lose their 🤬, but it would be a valid topic of discussion.

I'll give that thread a thought if people in large quantities do feel it's a valid point.

 

[Com Fox]

@Imari If a Japanese went here and lived like us, I guess it isn't a problem. They can live like us or they can keep their tradition in a non-conflicting way, it's up to them ane personally I'm fine with either.

 

[Imari]

The wording "Australians | Are they racist and/or xenophobic" doesn't contain the word "all" but it still implies generalization.

It does, but many sentences allow multiple different parsings that result in different interpretations. The default is usually to assume that the speaker means the one that isn't retarded, barring other information.

Take the sentence "Let's eat Grandpa". Do you assume that they missed a comma and meant "Let's eat, Grandpa", they want to eat with their Grandpa? Or do you assume that they actually want to eat their grandparent? Barring other information, you assume the first because the second is ridiculous in all but a few extreme circumstances.

Asking if ALL Australians are racist is retarded on the face of it. It's simply not statistically possible for 20+ million people to ALL be racist, even if the majority of them are. The probabilities are astronomical. Unless you buy into the whole "everyone's a little bit racist" thing, in which case it's a completely meaningless question.

Therefore, I assumed the more sensible interpretation of the title. You can ask the OP what he really meant if you like. But if you're correct then this thread really shouldn't have gotten past the second post, because there's nothing to discuss.

Even if he did mean to ask what you're reading into the title, it's a terrible discussion topic and should therefore be ignored in favour of one that allows actual discussion, sharing of information, interpretation and opinions. It is a discussion board, after all.

P.S. I don't know if you're actually Finnish and therefore English is a second language and you're actually getting caught up on this, or if you're a native speaker that just doesn't get it.

 

[Scaff]

And now that I think of it, it's rather odd to ask it in a poll where anyone in the world can answer, including those who haven't been to Australia in the first place.

Why?

I've never been to Australia, but I do work with an Australian and also with someone who lived in Australia for 20 years and is married to an Australian. One of my best friends is also an Australian who has now lived in the UK for over a decade.

As such despite never having been to Australia I can certainly form an opinion based on those who I have met who fit the criteria. After all its not as if I'm basing my views on having never actually met an Australian and rely solely on sourced biased in on direction or another to pontificate on the subject is it?

Oh and it would require a huge leap to make the thread into a presumption that its inferring that 'All' Australians are racist, firstly the title doesn't contain the word all (unlike your alternate one) and you would have to ignore the poll options as well (which clearly give the context that its not an assumed all).

 

[mustafur]

Why?

I've never been to Australia, but I do work with an Australian and also with someone who lived in Australia for 20 years and is married to an Australian. One of my best friends is also an Australian who has now lived in the UK for over a decade.

As such despite never having been to Australia I can certainly form an opinion based on those who I have met who fit the criteria. After all its not as if I'm basing my views on having never actually met an Australian and rely solely on sourced biased in on direction or another to pontificate on the subject is it?

Oh and it would require a huge leap to make the thread into a presumption that its inferring that 'All' Australians are racist, firstly the title doesn't contain the word all (unlike your alternate one) and you would have to ignore the poll options as well (which clearly give the context that its not an assumed all).

It does when the only yes option to the question applies all.

 

[Scaff]

It does when the only yes option to the question applies all.

What?

The 'Most of them', 'Some' and 'Not Many' are all 'yes' answers. The only totally 'No' 'answer in the whole poll is 'None of them'!

 

[mustafur]

What?

The 'Most of them', 'Some' and 'Not Many' are all 'yes' answers. The only totally 'No' 'answer in the whole poll is 'None of them'!

If you say yes to the question without any extra explanation, the answer will be all, it would apply to all questions asked in the same way.

 

[jimipitbull]

I bet if someone opened a thread asking if all Arabs are terrorists (equally bad assumption to what this thread's title says) it would create a major uproar...

"Americans. Are they terrorists?" would be a more interesting topic to discuss.

 

[Scaff]

If you say yes to the question without any extra explanation, the answer will be all, it would apply to all questions asked in the same way.

That makes no sense at all.

The poll options allows for a range of opinions to be stated from All to None, with options that allow a split, as such the poll answers do not limit a positive/yes answer to only stating that all Australians are racist.

As such you claim that the poll only allows a yes to all is incorrect. Its perfectly possible to answer 'some' which would indicate that 'yes, some Australians are, but not all'.

 

[Grayfox]

"Americans. Are they terrorists?" would be a more interesting topic to discuss.

Well what is a terrorist?

Is it someone that causes panic and fear?
That means any crazy person that goes on a shooting spree would be classed as a "terrorist" but that is not the case
The media throws a religious bias on the meaning of the word

The meaning of the word is
a person who terrorizes or frightens others.

 

[mustafur]

That makes no sense at all.

The poll options allows for a range of opinions to be stated from All to None, with options that allow a split, as such the poll answers do not limit a positive/yes answer to only stating that all Australians are racist.

As such you claim that the poll only allows a yes to all is incorrect. Its perfectly possible to answer 'some' which would indicate that 'yes, some Australians are, but not all'.

Look at the poll is what I'm saying, the eyes don't deceive.

 

[Scaff]

Look at the poll is what I'm saying, the eyes don't deceive.

I have looked at the poll, I quoted the options on the poll to you at least twice now.

They are:

1. Yes, all of them
2. Most of them
3. Some
4. Not many
5. None at all
6. Only Racist
7. Only Xenophobic

The first,sixth and seventh options state that all Australians are all Racist/Xenophobic, the fifth option states that no Australians are racist/xenophobic, while the second, third and forth options allows for differing ratios of a mix of the two extremes.

As such the second, third and forth options allows you to say that 'yes, some Australians are racist/xenophobic, but not all of them'.

As such your claim that you can only say 'yes' to 'all Australians being racist/xenophobic' is quite clearly incorrect.