Auto is better than manual transmission

  • Thread starter godzidane
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From point a to b straight line speed who will reach the finishing line first ?

  • Auto

    Votes: 75 11.3%
  • Manual

    Votes: 587 88.7%

  • Total voters
    662
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SHIRAKAWA Akira
By the way, old-fashioned automatic gearboxes (those with the PRND321 selector) can be used in a sort of semi-automatic mode by selecting D/3/2/1 as fit. It wouldn't be as efficient or fast-performing as with proper gear selection with a newer sequential semi-manual gearbox (since it's really just an "upper gear limiter"), but it can be done.

We used to mod the GM turbohydramatics with manual valve bodies in the 90's and turn them into real manumatics. They weren't really faster (less than a tenth). You don't address the lack of gears or the torque converter loss that way.
 
I actually wouldn't mind at all if GT transmissions mirrored their real world counterparts. By that I mean:

In a car with an old-fashioned slushbox, you can use auto mode only.
In a car with a manumatic/automanual, you can select either auto or manual mode.
In a car with a manual, you can use manual mode only.
If only PD bothered to do that, it would be so nice.

Speaking of Manual vs Auto in a straight line race. Wasn't it tested on EvoX MR in automatic mode beat the manual GSR model in a drag race? Then again the MR model has a dual clutch transmission and isn't really an automatic.
 
As a couple of posters have pointed out, in a drag race a fully automatic transmission optimized to shift at exact the right RPM will probably outrun a stick shifted manual. However, we must remember that for performance cars, "manual" in this day and age usually means a paddle operated gear shift with an automated clutch. In this case, an auto will not give any advantage, unless you miss pulling the upshift paddle at the right moment. What I've seen of stick shifters on the market for PS3/GT5 are rickety, fiddly things that I doubt many drivers find pleasing, so I guess most use paddle shifters.

However, the question of a-to-b efficiency is pointless in GT5 where there are bends in the tracks, and where you are not doing upshifts only... A human with a paddle operated gearbox, or even a stick shift with manual clutch, can plan ahead and anticipate the next critical gear shift, something a full auto box can't do. So for anything but a drag race, you want a manual.

And then there is the question of FUN. Autos are just boring, whereas manual ups the involvement and fun factors :)

DJ
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AT: Approach a corner in 4 gear, driver knows he should be in 2nd exiting, AT changes to 3rd after de accel takes and min and then changes to 2nd eventually after it works out you should have been in second or doesnt change from third at all and you exit at 3rd and wait for the revs to build up

MT: Approach a corner in 4 gear, driver knows he should be in 2nd exiting, picks 2nd and leaves the AT in the dust while the AT car is still trying to figure out what gear to use

No racing cars use AT, theres a good reason. Most use semi auto/sequential or manual and the driver chooses gears themselves

Drag racing is a moot point anyway as its not in GT5, and its just being used to falsely prove a point as it suits the arguement in favour of AT
 
If only PD bothered to do that, it would be so nice.

Speaking of Manual vs Auto in a straight line race. Wasn't it tested on EvoX MR in automatic mode beat the manual GSR model in a drag race? Then again the MR model has a dual clutch transmission and isn't really an automatic.

Dualclutch semi-autos should be faster than a manual if they're made well. The next gear is preloaded so they shift faster than anything else. They're pretty darn sweet. Maybe not quite as engaging but I know that I certainly perform better on the course with DSG than I would with a regular manual. 👍
 
Here is my research.

I took a stock Ford Focus RS WRC 07 '08 to the Top Gear Test Track. No modifications whatsoever. 310 hp and 1230 kg. Since the OP thinks it's faster to drive an automatic in a straight line, my test was simple, 0-162km/h (100mph).

10 runs and I took the average.

Ford Focus RS WRC 07 '08
Automatic
Best Run: 10.033 seconds
Worst Run: 10.750 seconds
Average Run: 10.291 seconds

Manual
Best Run: 9.566 seconds
Worst Run: 10.216 seconds
Average Run: 9.950 seconds

Clearly manual is faster in a straight line. I'd say that a 0.341 second difference to 100mph is significant. Manual allowed me to shift closer to the peak in the powerband, yielding better acceleration.

To further prove my point...

Ferrari 599 '06
Automatic
Best Run: 8.170 seconds
Worst Run: 8.933 seconds
Average Run: 8.565 seconds

Manual
Best Run: 8.066 seconds
Worst Run: 8.800 seconds
Average Run: 8.416 seconds

Again it's clear that manual is faster in a straight line. The 599 was selecting the next gear too early. Manual let me choose it later, running 5-10km/h high in a given gear than automatic would. This resulted in reaching 100mph in 3rd gear with manual vs. 4th gear in automatic.

I also did laps of the TGTT in each and with each gearbox and noted that I was leaving the auto in the dust if I was braking, turning or accelerating out of a corner.
 
No racing cars use AT, theres a good reason. Most use semi auto/sequential or manual and the driver chooses gears themselves

I think Alex Zanardi's touring car is automatic because he has to use hand controls. But that is the exception of the rule.
 
We used to mod the GM turbohydramatics with manual valve bodies in the 90's and turn them into real manumatics. They weren't really faster (less than a tenth). You don't address the lack of gears or the torque converter loss that way.

True, but automatics do have an advantage in drag racing due to a smooth power delivery at launch, quicker shifting (if you increase the pressure enough), and never missing a shift (unless your transmission is on it's way out). Where they lose their advantage is what you said, torque converter power loss and a lack of gears compared to the manual transmission available in the same car.

For instance, my car completely stock came in either a 4-speed automatic or a 6-speed manual. In a drag race, the automatic would usually pull a small lead within the first 60', and the manual would then have to reel it in. Due to slightly shorter gearing and being able to put more power to the ground, a well-driven (key point) manual would beat the automatic 9 times out of 10, but not by much. However, once you start adding power and speed, you overcome the power loss of an automatic and shift speed, launching, and consistency are much more important, so you want an automatic.

That said, GT5 has no drag racing mode, and from a rolling start (as you'd have when exiting a corner onto a straightaway on a race track) a manual is better due to better gearing. This is of course comparing two cars making equal power, and comparing a 6-speed manual to a torque-converter automatic. The gap can be lessened or removed with a semi-manual or dual-clutch automatic gearbox, especially if it has 6 or more gears.

As has been said, GT5 really doesn't simulate automatic transmissions at all, so the only applicable argument you can make for manuals is that you can choose your own shift points, and therefore manuals are better in the game.
 
This question is difficult to answer because there are so many different variables that you have to take into consideration. Now if we are talking about the regular car that any of us purchases and drives every day on the street, then yes the Manual Transmission will win in a straight line. That being said there have been many technological advancements made to Automatic transmissions that Supercars have been using, and also car tuners have been putting in place. The reason they are using these automatic transmissions is that they can shift faster than a human being can shift. An example of this would be the Lexus F the automatic transmission in that car only takes .03 seconds per shift. Which is faster than most human beings reaction times. I also know that people building drag cars are now using new automatic transmissions because they shift faster than a person can shift. So depending on what car you were using in the game, there may be some rare cases where an automatic transmission would be faster in a straight line than a manual transmission. Now on a racetrack with corners Manual Transmissions are still faster, because you have more direct control of the distribution of power, and know the correct shift points, and the Automatic Transmission has to decide for you what gear to be in.
 
Ok ok this is how I play with auto transmission

I play auto just like the manual pretending to change gears and what not

Simply put I use auto but using the manual style and without losing precious seconds

So I can have advantage the of both auto and manual

Have anyone tried using manual style control on auto transmission ?

Make sense ?

It doesn't make sense in GT5 because there's not much difference in the straight line performance as AT in GT5 is just basically manual+assist you by changing the gears

What makes the difference is that, is the timing you change through out first gear (in GT5) when you use manual mode especially at the start of drag races because when you step on the accelerator, the car start to over-rev (especially without TC) and this is the time where in auto mode (in GT5) gains advantage, when reach at a certain speed, it automatically changes to the next gear while in manual, you're unsure at what speed to change

His theory makes sense in IRL for two identical cars which have the same engine,etc but different transmission
i.e Audi R8's with R-Tronic vs with 6 speed manual transmission
 
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HN7
I can't believe there are 7 persons who think Auto>Manual :lol:

Here's something to think about: Why do dragster and funny car use manual and not auto? They drag race and they want to go faster right?

Not all do. The Lencodrive 2 and 3 speeds are awesome and the GM 2 speed Powerglide has been a wonderful, nearly bulletproof when built right, drag racing transmission for nearly 60 years.

Of course my hero, Ronnie Sox, was the baddest 4 speed drag racer EVER!!!​

But this is GT5 and not a drag racing game so manual transmissions, provided one knows how to use it, are simply better at keeping the engine in it's power band, helping with braking, and for traction control. There is a reason they call automatic transmissions "slush boxes".... Yes they have come a long way with all the computer controls they can put in autos now. Manual is still better for road racing.
 
Is FWD better than RWD if you wanna drift?

Serious? Are you discussing if manual is faster than auto? It's like having a discussion if oranges are orange?
 
I use Automatic but only because I'm on a DS3. I'm sure there are people out there using manual on DS3, but I just do not have the coordination for it amongst the other controls as well. If using a wheel (when I get a wheel), I will use manual and preferably paddle shift gears.

What I would like to see though is a semi-automatic. This would mean I can drop a gear when the engine is struggling to climb, or during braking. Best you can do is "hold" the gear you are in to stop it shifting up early, but this comes back to the coordination issue and may as well be using manual again.
 
Good Job freight, but a difference of 0.2 isn't that much. Another driver just as consistent as you are, is going to make up .2 in the draft. Don't be suprise when you run into quick auto drivers. Those guys spend a considerable amount of time optimizing the gear ratios in the transmission. The game will shift at the same point every time. Can you say the same with the .2 guy hounding you?
 
D_M
Good Job freight, but a difference of 0.2 isn't that much. Another driver just as consistent as you are, is going to make up .2 in the draft. Don't be suprise when you run into quick auto drivers. Those guys spend a considerable amount of time optimizing the gear ratios in the transmission. The game will shift at the same point every time. Can you say the same with the .2 guy hounding you?

I'm not comparing a guy tuning his car to run better with automatic. I compared these cars exactly the same. The ratios were the same, the suspension settings were the same. Hell, I could tune my car to blow the doors off an auto car. But that's not the point of my comparison...
 
D_M
Good Job freight, but a difference of 0.2 isn't that much. Another driver just as consistent as you are, is going to make up .2 in the draft. Don't be suprise when you run into quick auto drivers. Those guys spend a considerable amount of time optimizing the gear ratios in the transmission. The game will shift at the same point every time. Can you say the same with the .2 guy hounding you?

He did a straight line test. I expect the lap difference would be much larger. A manual is much faster in the corners.
A manual driver can spend just as long tuning ratios and have the advantage of holding a gear longer or short shifting if the situation requires it.
Either way .2 seconds is just as much of a win as .1 or 1 hour.
 
why is this thread up for discussion...

You can have the computer do everything for you, and do only that....

or you can everything the computer does AND BEYOND.... WHERE'S The Comparison Value? There is none!

/thread
 
He did a straight line test. I expect the lap difference would be much larger. A manual is much faster in the corners.
A manual driver can spend just as long tuning ratios and have the advantage of holding a gear longer or short shifting if the situation requires it.
Either way .2 seconds is just as much of a win as .1 or 1 hour.

I did a few laps with the Focus WRC in auto and in manual and manual ran more than a second faster. The difference was all in the braking into corners and accelerating out of them.
 
I'm not comparing a guy tuning his car to run better with automatic. I compared these cars exactly the same. The ratios were the same, the suspension settings were the same. Hell, I could tune my car to blow the doors off an auto car. But that's not the point of my comparison...


I'm trying not to take the thread in multiple directions, but your test results showed that manual was faster by about 0.2 in a performance car. Your own test showed that you won't "blow the doors off an Auto Car". You only beat yourself by 0.2. The other guy has access to the same tuning parts.
 
D_M
I'm trying not to take the thread in multiple directions, but your test results showed that manual was faster by about 0.2 in a performance car. Your own test showed that you won't "blow the doors off an Auto Car". You only beat yourself by 0.2. The other guy has access to the same tuning parts.

I'm not tuning anything! If I tune a car to have better acceleration or top speed than another then it's not a straight comparison...
 
D_M
I'm trying not to take the thread in multiple directions, but your test results showed that manual was faster by about 0.2 in a performance car. Your own test showed that you won't "blow the doors off an Auto Car". You only beat yourself by 0.2. The other guy has access to the same tuning parts.

One again, in a straight line acceleration test. He just said he tested lap times and found the manual to be a second or so faster. A second a lap is significant.
 
He did a straight line test. I expect the lap difference would be much larger. A manual is much faster in the corners.
A manual driver can spend just as long tuning ratios and have the advantage of holding a gear longer or short shifting if the situation requires it.
Either way .2 seconds is just as much of a win as .1 or 1 hour.


Whatever the time is, it's a win. I just think that it's not a big advantage that some make it out to be.
 
D_M
Whatever the time is, it's a win. I just think that it's not a big advantage that some make it out to be.

Call it what you want. 0.341 seconds difference to 100 mph in an identical car is significant.

0.341 seconds at 100mph is 15 metres (~ 30ft).
 
I'm not tuning anything! If I tune a car to have better acceleration or top speed than another then it's not a straight comparison...


Dude, I'm agreeing with you. I'm not asking you to tune anything, just to keep an open mind.
 
D_M
Whatever the time is, it's a win. I just think that it's not a big advantage that some make it out to be.

So you don't think one second per lap is much at a small like like TGTT? In exactly the same car with the same car?
 
D_M
Whatever the time is, it's a win. I just think that it's not a big advantage that some make it out to be.

I would say a 1 second advantage around a course that small is fairly large. It's not like we're comparing ring times of 7:25 and 7:26.
The longer the course, the wider the gap will be between AT and MT.

If you don't think a second on the test track is an advantage, fair enough, but I disagree. :cheers:
 
D_M
Dude, I'm agreeing with you. I'm not asking you to tune anything, just to keep an open mind.

My mind is wide open. Over a race, 1 second per laps is a significant amount and it all comes from a manual transmission.
 
I know F&F quotes are corny and should never be used, but this one works...

"Ask any racer, any real racer. It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning's winning." - Dominic Toretto

:dopey:
 
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