Auto is better than manual transmission

[D_M]

So you don't think 1 second per lapat a small like like TGTT is much? In exactly the same car with the same car?

A second is huge. I was comparing 0.2. The game gives you point 0.2 in the draft.

 

[freight48]

A second is huge. I was comparing 0.2. The game gives you point 0.2 in the draft.

Forget the draft. The draft has nothing to do with comparing two cars to each other. If I can pull 1 second per lap on you, the draft won't do anything for you.

 

[McLaren]

I actually wouldn't mind at all if GT transmissions mirrored their real world counterparts. By that I mean:

In a car with an old-fashioned slushbox, you can use auto mode only.
In a car with a manumatic/automanual, you can select either auto or manual mode.
In a car with a manual, you can use manual mode only.

If you wanted to auto shift a car that came with a manual transmission you'd have to swap in a transmission capable of auto mode. Not that Kaz would ever implement that sort of thing, but I would.

Sure if you want to end up losing what could potentially be a large chunk of your buyers.

No game does this for a reason.

 

[freight48]

Sure if you want to end up losing what could potentially be a large chunk of your buyers.

No game does this for a reason.

I don't think manufacturers would allow this.

 

[Devedander]

In very rare instances auto is better than manual (only when it just so happens I would have wanted to shift at exactly the same time as auto does which is rare) and with GT's push button shifting it's not even like you loose time shifting due to clutching or anything... a manual shift is just as fast as an auto but you get to put it where you want which is very beneficial when:

Accelerating as you can ride it into the red a few RPMS and stretch out that gear before shifting.

Cornering as you can use the gear you are in to hep guage the speed and even run a gear low so you can tach it out and make the turn instead of riding low RPMs and hoping you don't slip and end up going wide.

Decelerating due to how you can control engine braking.

Holding a line as you can skip shifting up or down if the shift wasn't going to be worth the time (ie no upshift between corners if I am just going to blip into 5th then drop back to 4th for the next corner) or when you are going up a hill or come through a valley (ie downshift for more power up a hill - upshift as you approach a drop since gravity will be helping)

I have never had a race where I would have prefered auto.

Mis shifts do cost you, but you just have to learn to minimize those (just like bad steering or poor braking) other than that, there are only positives to manual.

 

[D_M]

Forget the draft. The draft has nothing to do with comparing two cars to each other. If I can pull 1 second per lap on you, the draft won't do anything for you.

A second a lap is huge. Were you a second a lap faster in the Ferrari as well?

 

[freight48]

A second a lap is huge. Were you a second a lap faster in the Ferrari as well?

More than. I'd have to go look at my figures.

 

[McLaren]

I don't think manufacturers would allow this.

I don't think the manufacturers would have a problem if their cars are being represented to their full details.

It's the people who don't want to learn how to shift with a controller whilst driving around a course. If they can't find a way to drive the cars they want, they're not going to buy the game.

 

[freight48]

A second a lap is huge. Were you a second a lap faster in the Ferrari as well?

Ferrari 599 '06 AT - 1.18.565
Ferrari 599 '06 MT - 1.16.401

I don't think the manufacturers would have a problem if their cars are being represented to their full details.

It's the people who don't want to learn how to shift with a controller whilst driving around a course. If they can't find a way to drive the cars they want, they're not going to buy the game.

The marketing people will not be happy that the gearbox in the game is crap. Whether it's crap in real life or not, the company doesn't want their cars to be negatively viewed. So it just plain won't happen. The same reason for why we don't have tire manufacturers in the game.

 

[Goshin2568]

This is a very complicated question. First off, my instincts say to say "Manual is faster", because that is a well known fact and I use manual. But now thinking about it, the way GT5 does it, it makes it very complicated to decide.

Basically, there are many different types of manuals and autos, and some are in GT5 and some aren't.

1. Real automatic transmission - this is a real auto. It has a torque converter and has Park neutral reverse drive.
NOT IN GT5.

2. GT5 Auto transmission - this is a manual transmission that is shifted by the computer. GT5 chooses when to shift and it shifts for you.
The point of interest here, however, is the manual trans. it emulates is a DCT. Meaning no time is lost with the clutch during shifts. The only time that is lost is that the computer cannot effectively judge when the right time to shift is.
IN GT5

3. Manual (DCT) - this is the manual in GT5 if you are using a DS3 or the paddles in the DFP/DFGT/G25/G27/Thrustmaster/Fanatec.
No time is lost with the clutch during shifts, and the user is able to judge when to shift, usually leading to better lap times.
IN GT5

4. Manual (H-Shifter and Clutch) - this is the manual on GT5 if you are using th clutch and H-shifter on G25/G27/Thrustmaster/Fanatec.
Time IS lost with the clutch during shifts, but the user is still able to decide when to shift.
IN GT5



So...... Assuming you know what you are doing, number 3 is the fastest. The debate, however, would be whether it is faster to use number 2 or number 4.
In my opinion, if you are good, number 4 will be faster.

In conclusion, I think manual will always be faster, just keep in mind with all the autos and manuals floating around, there is a difference between them, and that might be causing lots of confusion in this thread.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Personally I find auto better than manual because you won't lose precious seconds mistakenly changing gear and you get maximum output

Unless you have aids all off and you don't have a 4wd car auto is the way to go

Have you ever driven a real manual transmission car?

It's quicker. 👍

Same with GT5, the real driving simulator

 

[shirakawaa]

I don't think the manufacturers would have a problem if their cars are being represented to their full details.

It's the people who don't want to learn how to shift with a controller whilst driving around a course. If they can't find a way to drive the cars they want, they're not going to buy the game.

It would be still possible to have the best of the two worlds for everybody.
Replace the automatic/manual assist with an additional switchable driving aid called "Gear Shifting Assist" that automates any manual operations only if the car's transmission allows them.
When set to ON, the cpu does everything for you.
When set to Semi, the cpu leaves the driver only the job to select gear shift up/down, while it does the rest (clutchwork, selecting the best shifting method available, rev-matching, etc). Basically like the current MT mode.
When set to OFF, all is up to the driver (even PRND321 selection on automatic gearboxes).

 

[OK8]

A very thorough post Goshin2568. I hope this might finally settle this thread of misconceptions.

I always use the clutch (except for cars that don't have one) and still the time lost while shifting is minimal, since there isn't much resistance from the gear stick in the g25. I can shift quite quick as a result and the only time I lose time is when I don't push the clutch hard enough and end up in neutral.

Still the advantage of being able to choose which gear you want to be for each corner is there, so even with a clutch and h-shifter I still think it's faster than automatic. In a straight line drag race it might be close, but on a course with corners it's a no-brainer.

 

[djpuk54]

Yeah auto is much better, that's why all real rally drivers and formula drivers use it!

...not

Actually most rally cars and F1 cars are semi-automatic clutch-less systems. Paddle shift by the driver but a degree of automation is needed to change gear. So half and half really.

 

[OK8]

Actually most rally cars and F1 cars are semi-automatic clutch-less systems. Paddle shift by the driver but a degree of automation is needed to change gear. So half and half really.

Yes and so is gt5's manual unless you use a clutch and h-shifter.

 

[parmi]

MT; more fun, faster and more realistic.

 

[HuskyGT]

Personally I find auto better than manual because you won't lose precious seconds mistakenly changing gear and you get maximum output

Unless you have aids all off and you don't have a 4wd car auto is the way to go

You´re soooo wrong. You loose much more time with the auto. Plus, in high powered FR, or MR cars, the manual transmission helps keep the car under control, by keeping a higher gear on hairpins. Maybe you won´t take the turn that fast, but it will help you avoid oversteer...

Is this the first racing game you purchase?

 

[djpuk54]

Yes and so is gt5's manual unless you use a clutch and h-shifter.

What's you're point? You were using a real world analogy and I gave a real world answer. I was not referring to GT5, just countering your statement.

 

[McLaren]

The marketing people will not be happy that the gearbox in the game is crap. Whether it's crap in real life or not, the company doesn't want their cars to be negatively viewed. So it just plain won't happen. The same reason for why we don't have tire manufacturers in the game.

I highly doubt they'll be able to fully tell if the gearbox is crap. It is impossible to simulate how each individual car's gearbox reacts to a shift in this game; you can't feel it.

 

[OK8]

What's you're point? You were using a real world analogy and I gave a real world answer. I was not referring to GT5, just countering your statement.

My thoughts exactly apart from the "you're" part (your).

What's the point? The transmissions in formula and rally cars aren't automatic, the driver shifts the gears. You're not countering my statement, you're just trying to sneak in some facts everyone even vaguely interested in motorsport knows already.

 

[shirakawaa]

[...]2. GT5 Auto transmission - this is a manual transmission that is shifted by the computer. GT5 chooses when to shift and it shifts for you.
The point of interest here, however, is the manual trans. it emulates is a DCT. Meaning no time is lost with the clutch during shifts. The only time that is lost is that the computer cannot effectively judge when the right time to shift is.
IN GT5[...]

What is in GT5 in AT mode with a DCT (or any other semi-manual equivalent) however is more like a very simple approximation of what a driver would do (with the caveat that the game is unable to properly anticipate the driver's intentions) and not the even distantly related simulation of real Auto-sport modes.

In GT5 the transmission will stay forever in the same gear if you keep a fixed speed. In real life, even in Sport (or equivalent) mode, if you drive with a light foot or without varying speed, after a brief time the transmission will start engaging higher gears. By the way, the manual mode of such transmissions almost never allows full control either (they typically shift gear themselves if the engine is revved too high or too low).

 

[djpuk54]

My thoughts exactly apart from the "you're" part (your).

What's the point? The transmissions in formula and rally cars aren't automatic, the driver shifts the gears. You're not countering my statement, you're just trying to sneak in some facts everyone even vaguely interested in motorsport knows already.

First of all kudos for spotting the poor grammar.👍
I was merely pointing out that YOUR statement, while being obviously sarcastic in tone was factually incorrect... Agree to disagree?
No hard feelings!

 

[OK8]

First of all kudos for spotting the poor grammar.👍
I was merely pointing out that YOUR statement, while being obviously sarcastic in tone was factually incorrect... Agree to disagree?
No hard feelings!

Let's leave it at that then. I don't want to argue.

(and I know complaining about grammar is cheap. I apologize.)

 

[freight48]

I highly doubt they'll be able to fully tell if the gearbox is crap. It is impossible to simulate how each individual car's gearbox reacts to a shift in this game; you can't feel it.

So why bother implementing it?

 

[Zhu8]

I quote Jeremy Clarkson: "Doing a drag race with an auto is like doing a sprint in wellingtons... full of tadpoles".

 

[WhitePhoenix]

Are you guys all just guessing or have personally done testing ?

I mean winning races on manual doesn't mean that manual runs faster than auto

Winning is one thing speed is another

they are all guessing


I drive manual in GT and in real life (even did a couple of tranny swaps to manuals) but...

take a look at top level dragster (top fuel and funny car for instance): all use automatic trannys

but in GT it is more subtle, auto shift at red line. Some high revving cars would need to be shifter past redline and some immensely torque ones (SL AMG for instance, old vettes) should be shifted sooner (this you can test easily on long stretches, like tokio, fuji, sarthe... if you get a boost in acceleration when shifting, it's because you've passed the optimal shift point)

also, with all aids off, and with an average car (that needs to be shifted at redline or real close to, but not over) you will always get faster with automatic



the reason why so many real life car are faster manual, it's because of a 4 vs 5-6 gears thing. Also, shifting hurts a lot on 0-60 times, but don't change much quarter miles times, since you're already moving forward.

boost lag is not that precise in GT. With a true auto tranny, since the throttle stays wide open, you keep at full boost while shifting. Let's say you drive a turbo'd civic (late 90ies)... you'll be lagging after each shift... not with an auto. But in GT, you're "auto-ing" a manual tranny (or the reverse, let's say in toyota Will)


But for the original precise question, straight line, in GT, auto is faster for many many cars and that's about it. If somebody tells you otherwise, it's because the guy running the auto forgets about hitting the X button before the startup

 

[freight48]

they are all guessing


I drive manual in GT and in real life (even did a couple of tranny swaps to manuals) but...

take a look at top level dragster (top fuel and funny car for instance): all use automatic trannys

but in GT it is more subtle, auto shift at red line. Some high revving cars would need to be shifter past redline and some immensely torque ones (SL AMG for instance, old vettes) should be shifted sooner (this you can test easily on long stretches, like tokio, fuji, sarthe... if you get a boost in acceleration when shifting, it's because you've passed the optimal shift point)

also, with all aids off, and with an average car (that needs to be shifted at redline or real close to, but not over) you will always get faster with automatic



the reason why so many real life car are faster manual, it's because of a 4 vs 5-6 gears thing. Also, shifting hurts a lot on 0-60 times, but don't change much quarter miles times, since you're already moving forward.

boost lag is not that precise in GT. With a true auto tranny, since the throttle stays wide open, you keep at full boost while shifting. Let's say you drive a turbo'd civic (late 90ies)... you'll be lagging after each shift... not with an auto. But in GT, you're "auto-ing" a manual tranny (or the reverse, let's say in toyota Will)


But for the original precise question, straight line, in GT, auto is faster for many many cars and that's about it. If somebody tells you otherwise, it's because the guy running the auto forgets about hitting the X button before the startup

Top Fuel Dragsters have no transmission. Just a clutch.

 

[charliec]

they are all guessing

Honestly, in a track race (which is not specifically the question, but since there's not officially any drag racing in GT5, it's the only kind of racing available) a MT will always be faster than an AT assuming the player is using it correctly. A MT driver can always shift at redline like the AT would, but the AT player can never hold a gear, downshift to engine brake, shift to optimize power band, or do any of the other things that a MT allows.

In real life, comparing top fuel dragsters, etc, those are an entirely different level of transmission as you'd find in a street car (say, an Audi A4). Real life has too many variables to say (X is better than Y) but in this game, I think it's hard to argue that AT is better than MT in any case, except when you're eliminating driver error.

 

[Negrumir]

Manual helps in the turns a lot. With powerful cars I can keep it in a higher gear to reduce the tendency for sudden wheelspin. And if it starts spinning, just shift up and it'll start to grip instead of having to let off the gas entirely.

Straight line is good as well. I can but my Speed 12 in 3rd, drop the "clutch," and leave two think black lines and a cloud of smoke all the way to 150 mph.

Try that with an automatic, it'll spend too much time spinning the tires in a gear that won't take it any faster.

Manual Transmission is also essential for drifting.

 

[R34EVO9]

Lmao guys its just his preference.. He feels it better for him.