Auto Racing "Not A Sport"
- Thread starter Turbotwin01
- 99 comments
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- 4,493
- Vancouver, BC
Yeah, and there's another thing too. Could the absolute best player in any team sport win the championship, if the rest of his team is really awful? Not very likely. How can the best player make a move to a better team? By proving that he is awesome. It's not much different in motorsport really.
The main difference is that the team's efforts result in a car that the drivers can use. The trouble is, it's harder to follow the mechanics and engineers in the pits than the drivers. When a supporting player in another team sport does something special occasionally, you can learn their name and number and follow their efforts for the team, even if they are not the "star player" per se. You're not really going to follow the efforts of a specific mechanic or engineer unless you're deep into the technical side of motorsport.
But motorsport is what it is. It wouldn't be motorsport if it didn't have motors in it.
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BHRxRacer
(Banned)
- 1,214
You missed sportsmanship in the definition.
If you're going to call anything a sport, it has to be fair and full of respect between the competitors. Diving in football or pushing someone off track in a race automatically make you a douchebag and thus, no matter how skilled you are, you don't belong in a "sport".
- 23,800
- Philippines
Whether or not there are douchebags (and of course, we all know where you are going with this, just as we all know about the driver you hate, even though his team-mate and rivals have all "pushed people off the track") in a sport, it doesn't change the fact that it is a sport.
If you want to take up "acceptable driving" so badly, start a thread about it.
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Respect, yes, there must always be respect.
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Fair... there's no such thing. Unless you're identical twins that get up on the same side of the bed in the morning, someone is always going to have an advantage.
Otherwise, racing would not be full of short, skinny men, and basketball would not be full of tall, muscular ones.
- 2,605
- Newport
- NFSCARBON1
MotorSPORT is the term used to cover auto racing and other things such as drifting and gymkhana (where finishing first doesn't necessarily mean you are first). So yes it is a sport.
It's no different to Horse racing or Dressage (which is definitely a sport, it's in the olympics!)
People say it's not a sport because anyone can drive a car. True, but anyone can ride a horse or a bike, anyone can kick or throw a ball, anyone can run. The difference between an athlete and the average person is how well they can do those things.
It's no different to Horse racing or Dressage (which is definitely a sport, it's in the olympics!)
People say it's not a sport because anyone can drive a car. True, but anyone can ride a horse or a bike, anyone can kick or throw a ball, anyone can run. The difference between an athlete and the average person is how well they can do those things.
- 9,058
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
The same people that say it isn't a sport think reality tv is actually reality.
- 1,399
- Jakarta
Once, I was asked, "What's your favorite sport?"
I answered, "I think it's motor racing, if you're asking about a sport to watch."
The reply I got was, "Sport. Sport."
Then, a surge of murderous intent flowed throughout my entire body. Thankfully, I didn't express it.
I answered, "I think it's motor racing, if you're asking about a sport to watch."
The reply I got was, "Sport. Sport."
Then, a surge of murderous intent flowed throughout my entire body. Thankfully, I didn't express it.
- 15,400
- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
- 1,399
- Jakarta
@ProjectWHaT
Umm...excuse me?
Are you talking about the usage of the term in the general manner, or as interpreted by a certain group of people?
As far as I know, motor racing implies a sport that involves motorized vehicles. Cars, motorcycles, motorboats...they're all parts of motor racing. The term encompasses a broad scope.
Umm...excuse me?
Are you talking about the usage of the term in the general manner, or as interpreted by a certain group of people?
As far as I know, motor racing implies a sport that involves motorized vehicles. Cars, motorcycles, motorboats...they're all parts of motor racing. The term encompasses a broad scope.
- 15,994
- United Kingdom
- haitch40
- Xbox?
You will never hear it called auto racing here. Just motor racing.
- 15,400
- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
Well, the thread title uses "auto racing"...
- 1,399
- Jakarta
What are you trying to imply? Does that make my post unrelated to the subject matter? I provided an account of me encountering a situation in which someone refused to acknowledge auto racing as a sport. Yes, I recalled, in that conversation, I used the term "motor racing" instead of "auto racing", but auto racing is part of motor racing.
Also...
If that's the case, does that mean professional race car drivers who refer the sport they're doing as "motor racing" are delusional?
Who told you that motor racing is strictly limited to motorcycles anyway?
Also...
If that's the case, does that mean professional race car drivers who refer the sport they're doing as "motor racing" are delusional?
Who told you that motor racing is strictly limited to motorcycles anyway?
- 2,260
- N. Jessamine, KY
- JMoney-689
- Woodside689
All disciples of racing are sport "hence the name, 'motorsport'?", and some are completely inarguable. Open-Wheel racing takes more skill than any other competition, while other types such as stock car racing require less, but are still sports.
The real question is what sports have athletes, and what have just competitors. For instance, NHRA drivers are obviously not athletes, but F1 drivers certainly are. It's series in between that are up in the air, like NASCAR, Rally and Touring Cars.
The real question is what sports have athletes, and what have just competitors. For instance, NHRA drivers are obviously not athletes, but F1 drivers certainly are. It's series in between that are up in the air, like NASCAR, Rally and Touring Cars.
- 8,017
- GTP_Royalton
What requires more 'skill' is really a moot point. A great openwheel driver may never be great at rally racing or NASCAR oval racing. Just as someone who is very good at a highly skilled position like controlling and kicking soccer ball could possibly never transition to a 'lesser skilled' position such as a defensive back in the NFL.
As for which drivers are athletes, any motorsport that requires even the slightest bit of physical exertion should have its drivers called athletes. F1 drivers may be in better shape then most drivers because their cars are more physically demanding, but that doesnt mean other drivers in other series arent in shape or arent athletes.
BHRxRacer
(Banned)
- 1,214
Great job missing the point and jumping to conclusions.
No, but when so called fans of the "sport" value douchebaggery over sportsmanship then it begs the question why they even consider it a sport in the first place.
I suppose that's why certain drivers are overglorified after they'd made a career of premeditated screwjobs.
So games like chess aren't fair either, right?
- 2,260
- N. Jessamine, KY
- JMoney-689
- Woodside689
It doesn't matter how the sport is played, so long as it is played. Good sportsmanship is not the deciding factor for an activity's status as a sport. If that is the case, then is Demolition Derby not a form of motor sport?
It's usually not the case that a winning driver needs an oxygen mask after winning, as even stated by the commentators in the Kyle Petty video. Motorsport has far more factors and conditions than any sport with a ball.
You simply can't place Lebron James and Ryan Newman into the same category as athletes, they are far too different. Lebron James wins are based more on his skill and his teammates, while Ryan Newman's wins are more based on his car.
In motorsport, the car is more the athlete than the driver. Racecars have flat tires and blown engines just as football players roll ankles. And if a driver is ever injured, the car breaks at the same time.
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- Philippines
So where were you going with this, then?
Who values douchebaggery? The Senna fans? The Schumacher fans? Where was the uproar over the penalties handed out to Briatore and company over "Crashgate?" Where were the people rushing to defend McLaren and Hamilton over "LieGate" when it became apparent that they lied?
Douchebaggery is completely frowned upon in this sport.
What is legal and illegal... that's debatable. Team orders? Track usage? Unusual car parts? Because they change from series to series. In NASCAR, bump drafting and wheel rubbing are allowed, as long as you don't shove someone deliberately into the wall. In V8 supercars and BTCC/WTCC, rubbing fenders is not looked upon favorably, but is allowed up to a point. Some series allow multiple defensive maneuvers. F1 did until it became clear they were ruining the racing, so now they allow only one. Some series allow two wheels off. Some don't at all.
We'll all call out drivers for doing something stupid. But forgive us if we debate legality in terms of what maneuvers are and are not allowed.
So... there it is. That's exactly where we expected you to go with this.
Next step: Name those drivers. And then tell us we've jumped to conclusions.
How many years of training would it take you or me to tie or defeat Gary Kasparov in a tournament match?
There's always someone stronger, faster, smarter or with a better phenotype (think Michael Thorpe, or tribal Kenyan runners) than you. Hard work and dedication can get you to a semi-competitive level, even without natural ability... but there are those of us who will never, ever be professional athletes, no matter how much we try.
The only game that's completely fair is tic-tac-toe. Because with a little training and memorization, anyone can play a perfect draw game, every time.
BHRxRacer
(Banned)
- 1,214
Oh no don't get me wrong I agree with you. I think racing is a sport, and that's how I've looked at it since I hit puberty. However what I found was that quite a few "real fans" value all the wrong things about racing, which seems to contradict their belief that it is a sport. Things like dirty racing, or taking into account the competitor's behaviour and attitude outside the track/ring/pitch.
Read above. I'm trying to see the logic behind what I see are contradictions.
I'd rather not go into details. I'll just say it's not frowned upon permanently or unanimously.
Again you're nitpicking. I'll get to that.
Nope.
But it's not your fault you're not born as smart as he is, right? You're not an identical twin.
There, you said it yourself. Sport was never about that though, the term fair isn't applied on that. Fair is following a set of rules, and the spirit of the sport. It's trying to find out who's the best, natural ability or not.
Here's my problem with you, and some other fans.
That, and I think another post somewhere where you said we shouldn't judge race drivers outside the track. I'm sorry but if that's what you believe in then you shouldn't believe racing is a sport. "Anything to win", "all's fair in love and war", etc are a direct contradiction of the values of sport. Commitment and hunger are one thing, doing any and everything to win is another. Don't think for a single second that "gentlemen drivers" aren't hungry or committed. They just understand what a sport means, others are doing it as either a form of self entitlement to win, or an extension to their male parts.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Let's review that:
I don't think people should get to be arseholes. In fact, I said so several years ago:
And directly following said "Lie-Gate" incident:
Do I think people deserve to get punished for being jerks? Of course! We were speculating on a full season's exclusion for Hamilton, then, and I would have thought it harsh, but justified.
So, why do I still watch him now? Because people can change. While Schumacher still showed that ruthlessness and "win-at-all-costs" mentality after his return from retirement, Hamilton changed after his third or fourth season. After Lie-gate, after all the brushes with the stewards in his first year, after that nasty separation from his father. After all the stupidity over the years, he finally seems like a well-rounded driver who knows what he's doing and keeps his nose clean.
In the same way, I've gained respect for Grosjean... most of the time. I've gained some respect for Vettel, for not being a douchebag about losing to Ricciardo, and actually moving aside for him twice this season, already. I believe people can change. But I also believe that they must be punished when they're wrong.
So... there. Sportsmanship (though again, this should be its own thread) is important. And breaches of sportsmanship must be punished. But for drivers to use every legal weapon in their arsenal is absolutely fair game.
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As for behaviour outside the track:
Meh.
If a driver is a serial killer, rapist, or habitual face-glasser... then yes, we should consider that. But if all they're doing is wearing weird caps and sometimes dating pop stars... who gives a flying fig?
BHRxRacer
(Banned)
- 1,214
Ugh. Who's to say what's legal? So you're surrendering to the stewards and FIA? If they say it's legal, you applaud, if not, you'll just accept their punishment?
It isn't even the point. Your mentality towards the sport shouldn't be "Whatever it takes to win". So it's a sin to break the rules, but it's perfectly okay to bend them? Every competitor knows the rules, and the spirit of them. It's childish to defend those "legal weapons". It's like telling a kid not to eat an ice cream, then find out he ate two of them. Hey, he didn't break the rules. He ate two, you asked him not to eat one.
Furthermore, technically speaking, there was NOTHING wrong with what Schumacher did at Monaco. I remember another driver doing the same exact at Monaco before. Maybe even the same weekend. How do you know for sure Michael did it on purpose? What about the Barrichello incident at Hungary? Again, technically speaking, he left him a car's width, so it's legal. Don't get anal with the "rules". Sometimes it's too obvious a competitor's trying to take advantage of them or the wording. If you think that's an acceptable way to compete, you shouldn't consider racing a sport.
Once again you're making assumptions. When did I say a driver a shouldn't date pop stars or wear children's hats?
If you're referring to Hamilton, yes I have a problem with him specifically but it has nothing to do with what you said. I really didn't want to discuss drivers with their names but I'll make a tiny exception here. I remember looking up Hamilton's twitter account when he posted pictures of Jenson's set up or something, and I was appalled by his bio. It was something like "song writer, singer musician, recording artist, adkfjasdjglkg, easdfakjfka, big booty bitches, I LUVV GAAAAWD" with no mention of being a race driver. It's almost as if he's not proud of being in racing. If he wants to be part of that culture instead of being a driver, it's rather insulting to the other drivers and the sport. You can do whatever you want in your personal life, but identify yourself as part of the sport you represent at least and leave that **** out of it.
- 23,800
- Philippines
There are things that should be illegal, and they're eventually made so. Name me current rules that you think are "unfair", and they can be debated.
My mentality is that I'm in it to have fun. Which is why I have never been a champion in any sport.
Champions do everything the can to win. Some of them cheat. And thankfully, they have been stripped of their championships when they do. (ref. Schumacher on Hill)
Legal weapons are a part of any sport. Intentionally holding a player and sacrificing a foul to stop the game clock. Going into a clinch in boxing to avoid being hit. Qualifying at the very last second on the very last dregs of fuel to give yourself the best shot at a pole.
Illegal weapons are prosecuted, and rightfully so. Flopping is now worth a technical foul in the NBA (hallelujah, finally), elbowing people in the face often begets a technical. Hitting below the belt is a penalty. Running people off the track merits a penalty.
Your example is pretty poor. You tell a kid he can't eat ice cream. If he eats two ice creams, he's obviously afoul of the rule and gets punished. That's fair.
If, instead, he has some chocolate, you can't punish him (if there is no standing ban on chocolate without permission) because then you'd be arbitrary, unfair and a pretty piss-poor parent... making up rules to punish him with that weren't there in the first place.
If you tell him he can have nothing sweet and he has that chocolate, that's against the rules, and you'd be right to reprimand him.
Does this mean that if something is not banned, it shouldn't be? Of course not. If it's dangerous, it should be banned. Definitely. If it isn't, and if it's unenforceable (team orders), then it can't and shouldn't. (Mind you, I hate team orders, but you can't force drivers to fight if it's not in their best interests).
It was determined, from onboard telemetry that Schumacher, after his incident, deliberately parked the car in the middle of the track. You don't accidentally block the entire track with an engine problem... not when you have runoff right in front of you where you can park the car. That one is pretty obvious. And, "technically", it's illegal. As intentionally blocking or impeding other drivers in qualifying has long been illegal in the sport.
Schumacher squeezed Barrichello against the pit wall and over the edge of the track. Note... over the edge of the track. Barrichello has all four wheels outside the white line:
That is not one car's width. And that's on the straight, where you're obliged (under the rules) to leave that space (again, corners have separate regulations). And "dangerous driving" also falls under the code, and thus he was penalized, and rightly so.
And here it comes out.
Which twitter account? The one with the big picture of the last GP as the header, or the one titled @F1LH? Just so we're perfectly clear where he's completely leaving out any mention of F1.
And who are you to say what a man can and can't do with his life outside of his profession? If Button can have his triathlons, Kubica his rallying and Kimi whatever else he does when he's not drinking or pretending to be a robot for the amusement of the media, Lewis has every right to do what he wants to do outside of the track.
I mean, I don't complain when Button tweets pics of his wife with no mention of McLaren. Or when Webber tweets pics of Button's wife.
(Dear Lord, on a racetrack, no less! The bloody horror! The sacrilege!)
But seriously, who would?
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Robin
Premium
- 16,799
- United Kingdom
I raised this question in a thread I created a while back. It does feel as though motorsport is not considered a sport by the media or the general population.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...nored-by-the-rest-of-the-sports-world.222387/
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...nored-by-the-rest-of-the-sports-world.222387/
