Beater or Sleeper? GT6 Car of the Week Thread

[CSMDuty11]

While i was grinding for money to buy the Rally ST205, i found out that, apparently, cheating is a family tradition.
Oh, and the "insulting fellow racers" thing is probably just limited to this specific Celica.

"Ye'r as pretty as a Carina!!!"

"If ya lie down with dogs, ya rise up with Lexus!"

"Ya prob'ly got Infiniti badges in your boot, haven'tcha?!"

"What are ye lookin at?!"

Can't really rate a car that cheats at every corner it gets...

 

[BAP_Shockz]

Have you guys watched the live-action movie? It's a guilty pleasure of mine lol

It's alright, I think Jay Chou got Takumi's part right, although I would much rather do away with the abusive Bunta in this movie. Doesn't fit him at all. The fact they managed to fit 2 seasons into a feature film is commendable, however. More or less, I'm just happy to see the AE86 Trueno in the metal.

 

[Aksu593]

I, too, and am saddened by the loss of the testing data (quarter mile/mile/top speed), as well as B-spec and endurance racing. Hopefully they'll be included in future updates and/or DLC.

 

[BAP_Shockz]

Well, my PS3 just went up and crashed after the Midfield race. I'm done for the week. Gonna finish up the review and then not touch the PS3 for another week.

 

[CSMDuty11]

And how long ago was the race, again?

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

I wish to apologize to anyone racing last night if I caused any crashes or hit anyone. Trust me, it's not my intention whatsoever. For weeks now, if I get into a crowd or sometimes even if one racer approaches, the track on my screen disappears or goes into Hunter S. Thompson mode with all sorts of colours as seen in many "trips". It's very disorientating and sometimes if I'm in the middle of the track one second, the next second I'm in the wall or another car.

I have tried so hard to improve, and hate it if I even touch another car. So again, I'm sorry if I ruined anyone's experience over the past few weeks... it's certainly killed my fun lately. Strange thing is, if I do the online seasonals it runs flawlessly. I'm at a loss for words tbh.

@McClarenDesign , thanks for offering to change rooms and hosts... it was kind of you, but the COTW races are just one that give me troubles in lobbies lately. I honestly believe the servers are in huge trouble, and it's none of our fault per se.

Anyways, there's my rant... I promise to catch up on reviews people. Don't count me out, as I'm still addicted to racing with all the people I've met here, just frustrated that I can't race like we did a couple months ago. Way fun back then, and I thank you all for it.

Cheers

 

[CSMDuty11]

I wish to apologize to anyone racing last night if I caused any crashes or hit anyone. Trust me, it's not my intention whatsoever. For weeks now, if I get into a crowd or sometimes even if one racer approaches, the track on my screen disappears or goes into Hunter S. Thompson mode with all sorts of colours as seen in many "trips". It's very disorientating and sometimes if I'm in the middle of the track one second, the next second I'm in the wall or another car.

I have tried so hard to improve, and hate it if I even touch another car. So again, I'm sorry if I ruined anyone's experience over the past few weeks... it's certainly killed my fun lately.

Strange thing is, if I do the online seasonals it runs flawlessly. I'm at a loss for words tbh. @McClarenDesign , thanks for offering to change rooms and hosts... it was kind of you, but the COTW races are just one that give me troubles in lobbies lately. I honestly believe the servers are in huge trouble, and it's none of our fault per se.

Anyways, there's my rant... I promise to catch up on reviews people. Don't count me out, as I'm still addicted to racing with all the people I've met here, just frustrated that I can't race like we did a couple months ago. Way fun back then, and I thank you all for it.

Cheers

Wait, your Celica cheats too? I knew that this was some sorta family tradition or something!

 

[ToyGTone]

OH NO, i missed the last week car, what i have done.
-------------------
Going to Review the Celica.................soon.

 

[McClarenDesign]

I wish to apologize to anyone racing last night if I caused any crashes or hit anyone. Trust me, it's not my intention whatsoever. For weeks now, if I get into a crowd or sometimes even if one racer approaches, the track on my screen disappears or goes into Hunter S. Thompson mode with all sorts of colours as seen in many "trips". It's very disorientating and sometimes if I'm in the middle of the track one second, the next second I'm in the wall or another car.

I have tried so hard to improve, and hate it if I even touch another car. So again, I'm sorry if I ruined anyone's experience over the past few weeks... it's certainly killed my fun lately. Strange thing is, if I do the online seasonals it runs flawlessly. I'm at a loss for words tbh.

@McClarenDesign , thanks for offering to change rooms and hosts... it was kind of you, but the COTW races are just one that give me troubles in lobbies lately. I honestly believe the servers are in huge trouble, and it's none of our fault .

I've had similar problems. After the start of the races my physics would change as cars got closer. Dreadful.

 

[ToyGTone]

And now we handed over to our Toyota Racing team, Some Say that they had cheated during the 1995 WRC Season and got Banned for it, and that it has a mysteries interior that even Area 51 doesn't know what it has, all we know it's not Toyota GT-one but it's Toyota Rally Cousin!!!

Syracuse - Night by toygtone21, on Flickr

Yeah it's another week of the "Beater or Sleeper? Car of the week" and this time we are bringing my beloved brother the Celica GT Four ST205!

So Today the Celica decided to go to Midfield Raceway to have a race against the others to see if "he's" good in any way, so "he" joined a fun and Short 5 Laps around it. He would be facing against cars from all time 90's Japanese Rivalry the Lancer Evolution GSR '92, the 3000GT SL, the FTO GPX and Honda NSX Type R to the "modern" Germans cars like the C 63 AMG and to the classic Italian Sports car the Ferrari 512 BB.

Here's the Cars Celica is facing:

Spoiler: CAR List

1. Honda NSX Type R '02
2. BMW 120d '04
3. Mitsubishi FTO GPX '94
4. Ferrari 512 BB '76
5. Chrysler Prowler '02
6. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution GSR '92
   
7. Mitsubishi 3000GT SL (J) '96
   
8. Lotus Elise Sport 190 '98
9. Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG '08

Mid-Field Raceway_12 by toygtone21, on Flickr

So here we go First lap, nicely done on the first and second corner. Getting closer to the AMG, Lotus and 3000GT and overtaking them all just before the Bridge that leading to the tunnel.

Mid-Field Raceway_11 by toygtone21, on Flickr

Around the Hairpin after the tunnel, still as 7th. Getting closer to the Evo and passed him but damn i'm losing control on the hairpin before the second Tunnel, recovered quickly thought.

Mid-Field Raceway_13 by toygtone21, on Flickr


And then passed the Evo quickly once again and i became 6th of 10th. going back to the main straight and into the 2nd lap, seems that i'm 17 seconds away from the NSX. First corner.... and off the track once again...

Mid-Field Raceway_14 by toygtone21, on Flickr


Coming back to the track and the 3rd, 4th and 5th seems to be getting away from me so i went fast as i could i get and caught them on the tunnel, i then overtaked the FTO and the Prowler.

Mid-Field Raceway_15 by toygtone21, on Flickr


While in the Tunnel i passed the guy in the BMW 120d quiet easily and all i have left is the 2nd and 1st which they're the Ferrari and the Honda. They seems really really far ahead of us. It seems it's impossible to catch. So i'm on the 3rd lap trying really hard to get near by but i failed to do that and by time and time they going really far that the first place, honda nsx, was 27 second ahead of me! my Celica was really hopeless to keep going faster, it's was all it could do, it couldn't push slightly more. it's struggling to keep up and it's reached to the point this happened:

Mid-Field Raceway_16 by toygtone21, on Flickr


OMG What the Hell??? the NSX is invisible!!
The Elise and AMG were catching up and the Ferrari and the NSX reached the finish line already so i end up being 3rd with 35 seconds away from the first place, it was fun to drive on this track, Brings back memory's.

Mid-Field Raceway_17 by toygtone21, on Flickr

conclusion? well first of all i'm sorry to say this to you Celica but i think you're not a very good car compare to say something like Supra and such...

Edit: I was going to do more but I didn't have time to do it so I might continue later.

 

[McClarenDesign]

@ToyGTone those are some damn fine shots!

 

[BAP_Shockz]

Extra: Besides the first race at Ascari where @Vic Reign93 started moving around the track like he was in a twister, as well as @McClarenDesign being able to rev but not start a race, I never really saw anything weird going on from my side. Could just be me. I would have kept racing too if it weren't for my PS3 just crashing after Midfield.

Anyway it's time for...

BAP_Shockz's Car of the Week Experience!

This week's car..

the Toyota Celica GT-FOUR (ST205) '98!

After spending quite some time in Japan, getting used to the climate and learning how to slowly speak the language, I made quite a few friends in the underground racing scene, most prominently in the fabled Midnight Club. Around this time, I had a friend come to me, asking me to prep his car so that he'd be able to join the street racers on the Tokyo-Yokohama express highway.

Which car, you may ask? This one.

I've done tuning for a few cars before, but never one of these. Apparently he had totaled his previous car, an S14 Silvia while racing. Anxious to get back behind the wheel, he then bought one of these. Before we started, I had to drive the car myself, and see how well it drives.

So what do we have? A 2.0-litre turbocharged four cylinder engine, called the 3S-GTE, generating a nice 251hp powering all four wheels. It goes from 0-60 in about 6 seconds. The rally version of this car raced in the WRC for only one season and then banned due to turbocharger fixing. Overall, it looks like a solid package.

Driving around the hills, I have no qualms about the chassis itself. It's well sorted, and steering feels direct but not light. Nothing really impresses me though. The engine is also decent, although I can't help but feel that the turbocharger isn't really up to scratch. That'll have to change. Overall, however, it's just 'meh'. If there wasn't such a long history with the Celica and it's rallying pedigree, this car wouldn't be too memorable at all.

Next step, the highway. I'm going to hit Vmax with the Celica.

An empty stretch of highway, no speed cameras in sight, and a 250hp car. Sounds like a recipe for fun.
It took me about 3 runs to finally hit it's max speed. 160mph is pretty decent for a car like this, and it seems solid enough to drive at speed.

Overall, it's a relatively uninteresting car to me, if I'm perfectly honest. Sure I had a bit of fun in this car, but it's not like I wouldn't be able to have as much fun in other cars. The Integra Type-R DC2 comes to mind. To me, it's mediocre, and I probably won't come back to it in the future. I wonder how much of a difference tuning it will make though.


.....

Overall score: 5/10

 

[McClarenDesign]

The racing stewards would like to have a word with you regarding the rules and regulations of ride height. They believe that your interpretation of the rules may not be entirely accurate.

 

[BAP_Shockz]

The racing stewards would like to have a word with you regarding the rules and regulations of ride height. They believe that your interpretation of the rules may not be entirely accurate.

What are you talking about?? Clearly it has been shown that I have done nothing but stick to the rules and regulations on this matter. It just looks that low because I was cornering.

 

[McClarenDesign]

While i was grinding for money to buy the Rally ST205

CSM.... You don't gotta put on that red light.

What are you talking about?? Clearly it has been shown that I have done nothing but stick to the rules and regulations on this matter. It just looks that low because I was cornering.

The results of the post-race inspection of the cars indicates a different opinion. That said, they also revealed that you are not the father!

Tip your waitress, I'm here throughout the whole thread.

 

[JackRyanWMU]

​

Going in, this week held so much promise. Here was a sports coupe with a rally pedigree and all-wheel drive in a sleeker form than the Impreza and Lancer Evo sedans.

What a huge, huge letdown to find that this car handles as poorly as some of the lesser front-drive cars that have come under our microscope. In fact, the only thing that differentiates this at all from a pure front-wheel drive is that once in a while the rear wheels will actually kick in, providing a little better turn-in. But even that ultimately became a negative because I would feel that and say, "Oh, I've got plenty of grip!" only to find myself off the gas and even trail-braking in hopes of keeping the car on asphalt on the exit of a corner.

Couple the cars handling woes with the number of other, better cars that could be had for this car's 33k price tag, and what should have been a winning formula only equates to "Beater" status.

"I am sooo disappointed in you.....No, don't look at me like that."​

 

[BAP_Shockz]

Seems nearly everyone's painted their Celica red.

 

[Racer283]

Seems nearly everyone's painted their Celica red.

When we raced on Tuesday most people painted it white.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Seems nearly everyone's painted their Celica red.

Jokes on you, I painted mine blue. Quirky choices, mother effer.

 

[turismoslayer]

Painted mine red too. Of the factory colors I liked it most. I don't even really like red cars. Almost went with the classic green. Most Celicas I saw back then were that color.

 

[ToyGTone]

Painted mine red too. Of the factory colors I liked it most. I don't even really like red cars. Almost went with the classic green. Most Celicas I saw back then were that color.

I'm the opposite, I love red cars but not on all the cars.

 

[turismoslayer]

I'm the opposite, I love red cars but not on all the cars.

I agree red does look good on some cars. Just not my favorite.

 

[Ryk]

at least it wasn't White & Gold verses Blue & Black

My GT-FOUR is Dark Green.

 

[JackRyanWMU]

I only chose red because it matched the fire-suit I had picked out for this week.

 

[ToyGTone]

Just to annoy all of you:

Red Color RULEZ!!

I'm not saying Red is the best or something but every car has it's own fitting color, a Lambo is usually yellow - Orange ish, Ferrari is Red, A JAAGGG *In Jeremy Clarkson voice* (or British sports car) is some Dark-ish green, Subaru is Blue, some small sporty European hatchback had Colors that you won't usually use on a normal 4 door saloon / sedan (Orange, Lime green..etc).

With that being said, lets go back to the thread. The Celica is sort of okay-ish Japanese Sports car to me, i liked how the car design looks compare to the one that came after it (1999 - 2006) which i dislike (in the looks), However one thing i didn't like is that handling are...well aren't that good compare to let's say Mitsubishi Lancer Evo around that time, It drives nicely on the straight but on the corners it's struggling a bit to turn around and the top speed isn't that great but still acceptable to me.

If i asked which car would i have between this or other Japanese rally sports car, i would say i rather have those other cars, i'm sorry Celica but that's the truth bro, don't worry i'm still your brother at the end...... Celica...Celica.....CELICAA.....WHERE YOU ARE GOING???!!!

 

[turismoslayer]

 

[Vic Reign93]

With all this talk about red, I feel it's time to throw my colour into the mix.

Some of us went for white, some for red, but I went for one, as brown as bread.

My car was finished in Matte Brown and with it packing 250hp, I was expecting a good show.

Sadly it wasn't the case. The weight distribution is 59-41 and coupled with 4wd made the car abit on the understeery side.

The engine pulls well and has pretty high HP rating for its size at 558hp fully tuned.

It's by no means completely terrible, but stock for stock, it just didn't feel great.

Now obviously, it's more competition based and sometimes cheekly modified for " technical advantages " Rally version was going to handle much better, but that's to be expected.

What I didn't count on was how behaved it was on the loose stuff, it gripped when I wanted it to and drifted when I asked it to.

Now I can't call it a full blown sleeper as it IS a rally car after all, but it's definitely worth picking up because it's a good car, period.

Lets move on to the Mini Clubman VGT.

Now when compared to other VGT's, it's quite down on power at 408hp with oil change, but 4wd and only 1050kg helps it rocket out of the turns.

Another advantage it has over say, the Toyota FT-1 VGT is you can adjust almost everything (except ride hight and centre differental for power splitting).

It's exactly what I wanted in the standard Clubman as that one In game is only Front wheel drive.

It's definitely an underdog compared to other VGT's but don't for a second count it out.

So conclusions?

Toyota Celica GT-Four '98: Beater 👎
Toyota Celica GT-Four Rally Car '95: Neutral, but recommended. 👍
Mini Clubman VGT: Sleeper 👍

 

[McClarenDesign]

I'm going to Dallas tomorrow, so next week's car will be announced tomorrow night when I get home. The winner also has yet to respond with their decision, so I may have to make an executive decision.

I also missed recording the Mini VGT rally #3, if anyone has it let me know.

​

 

[McClarenDesign]

Sorry about the delay, I was exhausted.

Congratulations Soyuz77!

It's been a while since we've done a super car. Turn the sound up to 11, because this week we drive...

​

... the 2000 Pagani Zonda C12S!

To paraphrase the wise scholar Christopher Titus, "the Pagani isn't a car, it's a cartoon!" But Brad, how is this a beater and or sleeper? Well, you'll first need a successful Fortune 500 company and enough money to aircondition hell, but I'm sure we'll figure it out by the end of the week. I guarantee that if you hand the keys to any pizza delivery driver, you'd find it beaten and bruised within minutes. And when you sit it alongside it's sister, the Huayra, it's not as attractive as it used to be. Too bad we don't have a LaFerrari or a P1 to measure it against.

 

[Buck-O]

​

Going in, this week held so much promise. Here was a sports coupe with a rally pedigree and all-wheel drive in a sleeker form than the Impreza and Lancer Evo sedans.

What a huge, huge letdown to find that this car handles as poorly as some of the lesser front-drive cars that have come under our microscope. In fact, the only thing that differentiates this at all from a pure front-wheel drive is that once in a while the rear wheels will actually kick in, providing a little better turn-in. But even that ultimately became a negative because I would feel that and say, "Oh, I've got plenty of grip!" only to find myself off the gas and even trail-braking in hopes of keeping the car on asphalt on the exit of a corner.

Couple the cars handling woes with the number of other, better cars that could be had for this car's 33k price tag, and what should have been a winning formula only equates to "Beater" status.

"I am sooo disappointed in you.....No, don't look at me like that."​

And i think now we understand why Toyota had to cheat in order for the car to be competitive in the WRC, which led to their eventual banning, and a year hiatus from the series.
Despite its great looks, the ST-205 was really a bit of a dog in the real world as well. Most all of the changes made to the production car, were done for the sole purpose of making the homologation of the race car better, and little else. Mechanically the ST-205 was superior to all of its older siblings. The twin scroll turbo spooled faster, and provided more CFM, and more consistant boost across a wider RPM range. The transmission had a much better syncro system, better ratios, and improved durability. The LSD's were built much better, and provided better locking. The engine cooling system, and intercooling system, where much more efficient and robust. The suspension had stronger pick up points, and better geometry. Having personally turned wrenches on all three cars, the ST-205 has the smallest engine bay of the three GT-Fours, and the drivetrain packaging is by far the tightest. However, all of that was done with the idea of improving the rally car, not the road car experience. The Group-A rules at the time only allowed for modifications to be done within a limited area of the stock components of the car. So, while the materials the turbo were made out of could be changed, the size and type of turbo could not, so they switched to the twin-scroll type to better manage boost. Likewise the tightening up of the drivetrain and engine bay, meant that the under body cladding to protect the car would be much flatter, and work much better at protecting the drivetrain. The "Super Strut" system Toyota employed on the ST-205, was also designed to allow for maximum pick up point adjustment on the race car. Just about every design change was done for racing purposes...and then they went ahead and cheated the turbo restrictor anyway.

As a road car the 205 was way too heavy, had a higher than expected roll center (again the rally car has carbon fiber body panels to lighten weight), and was at an acceleration disadvantage, despite its better turbo, and higher power output. Braking distances also suffered, as the braking system wasnt changed much at all from the 185, but the weight increased. Plus the car was physically bigger than the 185, and generally didnt give the enjoyment of driving dynamics that were present in the 185, and even to a certain extent, the 165. It was really a disappointment all around, and brought a fair bit of shame to Toyota even before the cheating scandle.

Honestly, in my personal opinion anyway, the ST-185 is the best of the GT-Fours ever made. Its light weight, well packaged, comfortable to drive, and shares the narrowest bridge between the racing car, and the road car. It also, thanks to parts parity, can accept most every part from a 165, or a 205. Where as putting 205 parts on a 165, might prove problematic because of packaging. So it is entirely possible to make an absolute beast of a 185.
But that is just my 2¢.