Best Handling FF Car

You never know what could have happend to have that Accord at the front. Although I must admit, it is strange to see an Accord at the front! :confused:

What I wanted to ask was this...
Where should we test the handling of the top "front drivers"? (I like that term)

Some of the tracks that come to mind are:
Deep Forest
Motorland (although that may be too small and tight)
Apricot Hill
Nordschleife

Tracks like Tsukuba and Motorland actually hinder the testing of a FF because of the size. Apricot Hill reverse could be the ideal track test and Deep Forest might be the best for testing "Ring qualities." The Ring itself is a little too long for testing sometimes (as I'm feeling a little burnt out on it at the moment).

Anybody care to setup some guidelines?
I'd be happy to suggest we take all these cars to various levels of tuning and just hit the track. Right now I'm playing around with the Alfa GT at the Ring and I bet one of those other tracks would be great fun.

Until next time,
-
 
Hmm i quite like the idea of tsukuba. It has nice flowing corners with mixed speed switchbacks. Smaller track also means you can get more laps and its less likely to have human error on a smaller course.

I just really like that track. I dont mind apricot hill though 👍

Oh, the downside to a small track would be the overpowered FF's which would have trouble getting power to the ground on a short course. :/
 
~Sp33~
Oh, the downside to a small track would be the overpowered FF's which would have trouble getting power to the ground on a short course. :/
Click to expand...

Exactly + lower powered cars will not have enough umph to throttle through areas like the bend after the dunlop tire. Those two problems might as well be said: Skilled drivers required, track handicapped cars.
Of course, I could make similar criticisms for any track, so... :confused: :lol:
For FF testing I much preffer Deep Forest to Tsukuba. 👍
 
Deep Forest has always been my favoured testing ground for FWD cars, mainly because its the closest to British B-roads, which are arguably the 'home' ground of modern hot hatches.

Its nice and technical, requires a well set-up car to handle the bumps and compressions and has a decent straight as well, also as Kent points out its short enough to test a good amount of cars.

Here's a good one to try out

Renaultsport Clio @ Deep Forest - Settings & write-up

Regards

Scaff
 
Well, after getting into this thread a bit (testing the alfa, looking through my collection)...

I've decided to open a little spot race.
Feel free to submit times. 👍
The race is designed to even out the ground between FF and all the other drivetrains.

Here's the race...
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=86633

If you feel like showing that your car is the best please go over and submit a time (with settings and commentary as well if you like).
Or for someone like scaff, simply take out an old tuned car, run a new lap and submit (with a link to the original settings post).

Good luck and have fun.
Maybe you'll see my Alfa's tail-lights if you're lucky. :mischievous:
 
Scaff
Would it be possible for us to see the results of these tests?

What were the criteria and how were the cars judged.

I ask because I personally do think its a surprise that the Honda Accord won, not that its a bad car, but in many many ways I can think of a massive list of FF cars that in my opinion are far better cars.

Personally I have always rated the Integra Type R (DC2 for the bumpy tracks and DC5 for the smoother tracks) as one of the single best front drivers ever.

For me the Accord is too big and heavy to be as truly nimble as a great FWD car needs to be to make up for the drive-train limitations, so I look forward to the detail behind your tests.

Regards

Scaff
Click to expand...


I must agree with you. I had a power loss for four hours just now, but I have tested the Accord around Grand Valley East Reverse for two laps now. And I must say, I do not agree at all.
The first keyword for a good front wheel drive car is low weight. With low weight, you don't need an awful lot of power to go fast, and low weight also makes the car nimble and exciting to drive. The downside with low weight on front wheel drive cars can be understeering, the car loses grip because there's no weight to keep it down.
I ran a small test with a new Honda Accord Coupe and a 91 Honda CRX SiR, the benchmark front wheel drive Honda. The Accord is heavy, coming in at almost 1.500 kilos. It's got quite much power, though, 230 bhp from stock. Impressive, but the V6 makes it more of a cruiser. I struggled to find the right line, and I lost the rear sometimes, clearly not a driving focused machine. It's not fun either, I lost the front wheels in the first corner of lap three, that was it for me.
The CRX SiR on the other hand, weighs in at a tonne, more or less. It's far more nimble than the Accord. Only 145 bhp from stock, almost a hundred less than the Accord, but it still posted a lap time only four seconds shy of the Accords. While the Accord Coupe is a refined cruiser (and feels like a boat sometimes), the SiR is a go-kart, simply enough. Add some power and a stiffer suspension, and you've got the same lap times as the Accord, with a lot wider smiles.
The CRX is clearly the best Honda for ages, maybe apart from the DC2. Personally, I think the CRX SiR is better than the Integra Type R DC5. And the DC5 is a hundred times more driver focused than the heavy Accord, with less power. Go figure, the Accord can't compete with the best.


Eirik
 
I've never really thought about the best handling Front wheel driven, Front engined car. As for cornering speeds, I guess it all comes down to Power-to-weight.
 
stock Lupo/Polo GTi gives Civic EG-II Si run for it's money, and that's with 177bhp after oil change. those little devils just go faster and faster where as the civic got left to dust!! :eek:
 
~Sp33~
Has 160hp stock 👍

~Sp33~
Click to expand...

Ssshh, I hadn't done oilshift yet.
biggrin_upper.gif



Eirik
 
Scaff
Would it be possible for us to see the results of these tests?

What were the criteria and how were the cars judged.

I ask because I personally do think its a surprise that the Honda Accord won, not that its a bad car, but in many many ways I can think of a massive list of FF cars that in my opinion are far better cars.

Personally I have always rated the Integra Type R (DC2 for the bumpy tracks and DC5 for the smoother tracks) as one of the single best front drivers ever.

For me the Accord is too big and heavy to be as truly nimble as a great FWD car needs to be to make up for the drive-train limitations, so I look forward to the detail behind your tests.

Regards

Scaff
Click to expand...
The details of my test required ff cars to have a boot ( my type of car) no suspension,clutch, flywheel, no driving aids or LSD, no weight reduction, no engine balancing,port polish and no brakes/controller.
I then placed on the cars N3's,oil,refresher if needed,full horsepower that the car can upgraded to and 200 ballast.
I then extended gear ratio's of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears.
Other requirements of my test included that it must be a non-sports model and that the car must be 330bhp+ and also must not be below 1200kg in mass. So the cars I tested were in the middle/heavyweight and these were the ;
Acura CL 01 AND 03
Alfa 156, 166, GT 3.2 V6
Xantia
SRT4
Accord Import
Mazda 6 Con and Mazda 6
Eclipse and Eclipse GT
Primera 2.0 te and Primera 2.0v
Peugeot 406
Vectra
Vovlo T5

FF sports cars in GT4 are for me very fun to drive and I have my favorites. I love my car to have a boot and considerd to test drive these non sports models to see how they would compete and respond.
The test never involved lap times or speed records, only ride, handling and performance was what I required and with 200 ballast and N3's, this would make for an interesting diversion.
I completed my test on Trial mountain, Deep Forest and the Nurgburg as these tracks have undulations,changing cambers and elevation.

Hope this helps.
 
rapapampam
The details of my test required ff cars to have a boot ( my type of car) no suspension,clutch, flywheel, no driving aids or LSD, no weight reduction, no engine balancing,port polish and no brakes/controller.
I then placed on the cars N3's,oil,refresher if needed,full horsepower that the car can upgraded to and 200 ballast.
I then extended gear ratio's of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears.
Other requirements of my test included that it must be a non-sports model and that the car must be 330bhp+ and also must not be below 1200kg in mass. So the cars I tested were in the middle/heavyweight and these were the ;
Acura CL 01 AND 03
Alfa 156, 166, GT 3.2 V6
Xantia
SRT4
Accord Import
Mazda 6 Con and Mazda 6
Eclipse and Eclipse GT
Primera 2.0 te and Primera 2.0v
Peugeot 406
Vectra
Vovlo T5

FF sports cars in GT4 are for me very fun to drive and I have my favorites. I love my car to have a boot and considerd to test drive these non sports models to see how they would compete and respond.
The test never involved lap times or speed records, only ride, handling and performance was what I required and with 200 ballast and N3's, this would make for an interesting diversion.
I completed my test on Trial mountain, Deep Forest and the Nurgburg as these tracks have undulations,changing cambers and elevation.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...


It does help a lot, 👍


However its quite a contrast to your original post which read

rapapampam
I posted "the best ff car" at gamefaqs a few months back letting everyone know to their astonishment that the tests I carried out on all ff normal cars produced a winner of no great surprise as it was a Honda Accord USA Version which you can purchase brand new stock.
I am not going to brag while eating my toast, this car handles even at 1400+ kilo's. I had an unforgettable drive on the Noboogering, taking corners like I was in a 4WD.
Click to expand...


I'm sure you will agree that your test sounds a lot more like the best mid-sized FWD car test, rather than the best FWD car full stop. As personally I would still rate the Integra Type R over any of the list in your group test, but then it doesn't fit in with the rest of the test.

Regards

Scaff
 
Allright, I read some good stuff about the Gathers Drider Civic Race Car, so I figured why not give it a try.
I decided to run it at Laguna Seca for some laps, to see how it responded. Seca is a variated track with many balanced corners, good elevation changes and several hidden traps, but still wide and fast. On Seca, you also have to plan a bit before the corner comes, whether to just release the throttle, or brake. In the first corners you've got to hit the brakes hard, while giving it all you've got afterwards, so that will show flaws concerning understeering. The following corners are let-off-gas procedures, while the corkscrew demands full control and respect. So, a good track for a FWD car then? Yep, it has to slip with the rear, have nice brakes, little bodyroll, much grip, much power, yet no understeering.
I started my test with a 1997 Toyota Supra RZ. It was a good while since I had been running on the Seca, I haven't used it much since January (!), so what's a better warm-up procedure than taking a 900 bhp Supra on a unfamiliar track? Nothing, exactly. Because the rear tires will slip on bumps, it's a nice way to locate them too.
So, I had refreshed the track quickly, and I wanted front wheel drive power, quickly! However, I felt I wasn't ready for the Gathers Drider Civic yet. Guess what I did? I brought out my beloved CRX SiR out on the Laguna Seca, to get the feeling driving a go-kart on the Laguna Seca too. I think this was one of my first experiences with a front wheel drive car on the Seca, and I was blown away. A driving experience has never been so fulfulling. Release, slip into place, follow the exact right tracks, around the crispy, sharp corners with the FF car wanting more and more grip. I did a total of 12 rounds, where I continously improved my lap time, down to 1:46.5. Not bad for a 14 year old 4-banger, I guess.
So, over to the even harder stuff. The go-karts of all go-karts in the Honda-world. If not the granddaddy, it's sure the benchmark of a FF. The Gathers Drider Civic Race Car, a fiest of grip, power and sublime handling packed into a light body. In fact, it only weighs a mere 930 kg, and with 182 bhp to play with, the Gathers has a power-to-weight ratio of 5.016, which beats a 2001 Honda S2000.
The first thing that pops into my mind is how boring this car is, and how much better my CRX SiR was on the very same track a couple of minutes ago. But wait, hang on a minute. A sensation of grip like I've never felt before, at least not in a front wheel drive car. The Civic is easy to control, and I just have to let go of the gas, then drive maximum, and unlike in the CRX, this goes for all corners, not just a couple of 'em.
After a couple of laps I'm hooked. This is simply one of the most exiting cars I've ever driven in GT4, despite a lack of both straight line speed and drifting abilities. The powerplant is not a huge dynoqueen, but that was never the point either. The Civic easily completes it's goals and my thoughts were right. It's remarkebly balanced, a joy to drive. It costs 450.000 Cr, though, which quite possibly makes it the most expensive front wheel drive car in the game, but what a car. I just got a new front wheel driven favourite. And it easily goes for one of the top ten best cars in the game. Weird how Honda seems to produce driving machines, not just lap time-wise, but also in the way of joy.

The Gathers Drider Civic Race Car - all you could ever want from a front wheel drive.


Eirik
 
Nice post erik (tried to give it rep but couldn't give you more rep yet have to "spread it around" some more first).

Also, Scaff,
I believe you meant to say Best Motoring not Best Mid-Size... ;)
(just a cheap shot on the boys at Japan-always-win aka Best Motoring) :lol:

Regarding the EK Civic Race Car... I've liked that car for a long time and I agree that it is possible the best FF in the game.
However, I find that it lacks some characteristic that I can't put my finger on... Actually, now that I think of it, I believe the Racing Tires kill the Drider Civic experience. :scared:
Yup, after spending so much time now on Deep Forest with Sports Tires and Front-Drivers, I can't help but feel like the Civic Racer just isn't as much fun as the wheel spinning road car counterparts. :P

That said, I certainly do like the Driders Civic and when it comes time to pick a FF racer I always go straight to the Gathers. 👍
Then again, whenever I go to a street FF I always go to the TRD Celica. :mischievous: :lol:
 
ya know imma have to say that the best handkleing FF car i have driven is the TSX(accord type r in the game)...
Of course i slightly modified it to my liking. I had a custom LSD and changed the Acc. and Dec. settings to the lowest while chaging the Initial setting to about 15. It handles liek a dream. No understeer. Period. I tried this setting on other cars but the sheer drivability wasnt the same. The TSX has got to be the most exciting FF car i have driven to date. it even ousted my M3 in the Fun section and the M3 is a very fun car to drive!!! The TSX is one of the most predictable cars i have ever driven. I can push the car to the limits and not feel anything hindering its performance. It makes me wish that some corners lasted forever, or that S corners were constant in all tracks. after some slight modification of its suspension, i took it to the Ring and tackeld that course with absolutly no difficulties. It has the ability to corner like an FR withthe stability of the FF. The biggest draw back of this car is that it vibrates soo damn much. but i quickly found out that it was common in every FF that idrove. In the end the TSX is the greatest handling FF i have ever driven. of course this is me....so these are my thoughts....so please dont harrass me that the TSX sucks or anything...its my new favorite all-round racer....
 
Scaff
It does help a lot, 👍


However its quite a contrast to your original post which read




I'm sure you will agree that your test sounds a lot more like the best mid-sized FWD car test, rather than the best FWD car full stop. As personally I would still rate the Integra Type R over any of the list in your group test, but then it doesn't fit in with the rest of the test.

Regards

Scaff
Click to expand...
I am totally in agreement with your last quote. I have enjoyed the Integra since GT1. I found that most of the post's had covered every aspect of ff cars to a degree and for me the tests had still not been concluded until a comprehensive look at ff cars that didn't appeal to everyone as in the mid-sized had a looksee.
Overall, I also consider the Integra/s to be my best handling even down to the RSX.
 
I am reconsidering my grade on which is the best handling FF. I was all for the Integra and I really like the Accord but now I found that the FTO, all of them, have taken top spot in my appreciation. The natural oversteer on fast bends and it's smooth riding ability through tight corners had given me feelings that I was in a RWD.
I always turn of the driving aids on all my cars as it gives me the feeling of "being there" even though, of course, that i'm not but, this car had the ability to handle all situations...now I shall try my hand with it in the Special Conditions and see what comes up.
 
go the ford focus RS !!!!!! best ff car in the game!!!!

not that is a big achievement FF cars are yuck!!!! i drive one in real life.... hate it can't do power slides ehehehehehe not that i condone dangerous driving!!
 

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