Bigger racing field = higher difficulty?

[niky]

I think the Nurburg is just perfect for a massive field. What I would like to see is a selectable field for family cups and track days. Imagine, specifying twenty other cars for a day's worth of lapping at the Nurburg... IN THE SAME CLASS as the car you're driving... instead of the usual hodgepodge that GT4 usually spews out.

That would be worth it.

 

[JohnBM01]

Of course, I wouldn't even waste my time with the Nurburgring Nordschleife. Why so? I'll race Le Mans, but I'm not a fanatic nor a pro at the Nordschleife. I wouldn't even want to challenge that fast time Evo Magazine had about the quickest-ever GT4 lap time there (I read 4:59 or so). To me, it's just too long. I'm not out looking for the stupidly long courses. All I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't even imagine big numbers of cars in Green Hell.

Nurburgring Nordschleife and Le Mans are bigtime benefactors of the multiple car fields. I wasn't seriously disappointed with 6 to a track at Le Mans in GT4. I'll also admit that I was slightly disappointed with "24 Hours of Sunlight," but then, I didn't have Mt. Everest-high expectations for GT4. I'm pretty sure that we're not going to see all sorts of autos at Nurburgring Nordschleife and Le Mans. The Nords. features 200+ cars to a track, while Le Mans features 48 to a track (this year's race had 49). I don't see this Gran Turismo, much less any GT, to feature this many cars to a track, ESPECIALLY not 200+ cars on a track much longer than 12 miles. With the Nordschleife having a good number of cars, it will just make things tougher. I'd especially speak with the inexperienced with Nurburgring Nordschleife. For all the times you'll have to race the Nordschleife, it just means that you'll have to be more cautious overtaking.

What would you all recommend for not very good GT gamers looking to take on multiple other racers to a track? How do you cope with many more drivers on track?

 

[Hun200kmh]

What would you all recommend for not very good GT gamers looking to take on multiple other racers to a track? How do you cope with many more drivers on track?

It depends on the in-race rules of the next GT game. If hiting other cars and wall-riding means you'll get penalties and/or car damage, I would recommend them to:

a) get a good knowledge of the track before entering races there;

b) practise defensive driving;

c) pick your passing spots carefully and use them, instead of trying to pass other cars in every corner of the circuit.

But, if the next GT game allows you to do an entire race pushing other cars off the track (and/or if the AI cars still act as zombies) than these advices will be useless. And the next GT will be another excellent driving game, but not an excellent racing game.

 

[greenlightning]

Won the my first formual car from the Nurb24hrs yesterday. Now taking a short break from GT4. Rented the latest TOCA race game, something I have been interested in trying for awhile now. It seems to be an okay game, better then most cheep racing games. Anyway it has 20 car field and damage. I think that a bigger field 20 cars hopefully more will make GT4 a lot more fun, even if the A.I. is not improved much. Two player mode on TOCA only allows for total of 6, so far that I have seen . I really believe that a bigger field of cars will be the biggest improvement for the GT series. Damage on TOCA does not appear to affect cars performance to much unless to crash a dozen or so times, but in early stages of playing it. GT4 has a great deal of cars and good tracks they just need to really maximize the playability, by getting bigger field, better A.I., and a lot better organized groups of racing.

 

[RedWolfRacer]

I think my biggest problem with passing in ANY game is patience. I don't have the patience to let off the throttle a bit to give the car ahead of me a safe lead. This is better to do than to push it and have him cut you off and ruin your racing line and then the same car will have a bigger lead.

For beginning drivers in large fields, patience is a very good ally. I've learned only a moderate amount of it, but I still have the urge to knock those bricks known as AI off the track in GT4. lol

 

[JohnBM01]

I'm glad you mentioned TOCA R.D. 2. When I played the game, I learned that part of the challenge of winning races is knowing the track you're racing and the car you're racing with. Anything from Global GT Lights (I like those cars) to that Champ Car-type series, you must learn to handle each car correctly. And if you don't believe me, when you race some of those single-seater formula cars, you have to be VERY careful handling them. When I raced one series, I had to be very careful not to spin them out, bang into walls, or anything a normal full-fender machine can take. I can't name the series right now since I'm not playing TOCA R.D. 2 right now and can't remember the series.

My only concern with multi-car fields has been about controlling the car. And with the addition of damage, it really tests your knowledge of making smart passes on track, not to mention driving the car correctly on track. Something I bet novice GT games will admit is that street courses may be the biggest problem. I usually like street courses, but when the cars aren't full-fendered, not so fragile race cars, it can be Hell. All I can say is that you'll have to be careful making passes. I will admit that I sometimes cannot make smart passes without contact. Many of us GT gamers are going to have to mature a bit more to make the most of the next GT. If radical changes are in the works, we'll have to acclimate ourselves to the next GT's changed physics, race atmosphere, and all sorts of things. Don't give me the AI deal, because this is all about change for what I know.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I think my biggest problem with passing in ANY game is patience. I don't have the patience to let off the throttle a bit to give the car ahead of me a safe lead. This is better to do than to push it and have him cut you off and ruin your racing line and then the same car will have a bigger lead.

For beginning drivers in large fields, patience is a very good ally. I've learned only a moderate amount of it, but I still have the urge to knock those bricks known as AI off the track in GT4. lol

RedWolfRacer, I strongly recommend that you try - buy or rent - Enthusia. You will learn to be patient, because it has this simple rule about unlocking cars (you don't have a garage): you will unlock all the cars that you successfully passed in free racing, in the default settings (3 laps, normal AI) IF you are able to finish that race without ever: a) hitting any other car; b) going off-track; c) hitting fences, walls, etc.

Sounds simple, but for GT racers it isn't, because we all must have some 0,000001 % of races in GT where we - for at least 3 consecutive laps - never touched other cars, walls or had our ocasional off-track adventure.

PS - Enthusia - like GT4 - also has only 6 car grids, so it's still a fairly easy way of learning how to successfully finish "clean" races.

 

[greenlightning]

I'm glad you mentioned TOCA R.D. 2. When I played the game, I learned that part of the challenge of winning races is knowing the track you're racing and the car you're racing with. Anything from Global GT Lights (I like those cars) to that Champ Car-type series, you must learn to handle each car correctly. And if you don't believe me, when you race some of those single-seater formula cars, you have to be VERY careful handling them. When I raced one series, I had to be very careful not to spin them out, bang into walls, or anything a normal full-fender machine can take. I can't name the series right now since I'm not playing TOCA R.D. 2 right now and can't remember the series.

My only concern with multi-car fields has been about controlling the car. And with the addition of damage, it really tests your knowledge of making smart passes on track, not to mention driving the car correctly on track. Something I bet novice GT games will admit is that street courses may be the biggest problem. I usually like street courses, but when the cars aren't full-fendered, not so fragile race cars, it can be Hell. All I can say is that you'll have to be careful making passes. I will admit that I sometimes cannot make smart passes without contact. Many of us GT gamers are going to have to mature a bit more to make the most of the next GT. If radical changes are in the works, we'll have to acclimate ourselves to the next GT's changed physics, race atmosphere, and all sorts of things. Don't give me the AI deal, because this is all about change for what I know.

I was very surprised by the formula light ( mini formula cars ) in TOCA. Yes they are easy to spin out in and contact with others with most likely cause you to spin out or worse. You can literally blow out the front tire also, and be left with nothing but the rim. I do not know if it is just me, but how come most other games the race tracks seem much longer then what typicall GT4 tracks are ?

 

[JohnBM01]

One reason may be that certain companies model tracks differentely, especially among real courses. Formula Fords were a b*tch to race with in TOCA RD 2. Then too, I'm not really an open-wheel guy. Cars seem much more fragile. I respect many open wheel race cars from Formula Ford to Indy race cars to F1 cars. I thought GT4 really challenged me even if each race seemed like "I've been there before SEVERAL times."

Going back to the original question, of course it gets tougher to race with more cars on track. During the Vision GT video at E3, as much as I like street courses, I'd hate to imagine doing Formula GT at Monaco, which is my least favorite street course... to race with. I don't know about you, but I'd rather take a bus ride or something around Monte Carlo than race 200 mph around the rather tight confines of Monte Carlo. Perhaps my toughest point of emphasis on bigger packs of cars is with there are more open-wheel race cars. Open-wheel race cars are easier to get screwed with than a full-fendered machine. With a formula-type single seater, your tie rods (correct term?) are exposed, and if one tire gets screwed, your race is almost 80% over. Patience can't be expressed any further. You are racing a light car with superior handling, great acceleration, and a highly adaptive racing machine. I respect open-wheel single-seaters, but it really tests your patience. From a passionate standpoint, I'd hate to imagine a GT gamer race an open-wheel race car, screw up somewhere in handling, and have his/her car torn up. First, I'd learn patience, then when you get to the more pure race cars, be careful maintaining them. And if there are a good number of open-wheel race cars, learn to be as careful as possible controlling the car through traffic and around race tracks.

I just want to believe that the learning curve will be sufficient and sizable enough for GT gamers and GT newcomers to enjoy the GT experience in the next GT.

 

[greenlightning]

Revisting this topic with a question directly related to the highly anticipated possibilties of much larger car fields being included in GT5. My question is how do you think that larger car fields will change the series event races. Currently series races are, I think a group of ten races, that is the max some are fewer. First place is given 10 points and 2nd place 6 points etc. I am thinking that having 20 cars in a race are going to make series events much much harder to win. Not just because of the increased competition per race, but more because there is a higher probablity of differnt cars taking the checkered flag. If the current point system is kept and ten races then the following could happen. I am also going to assume that the A.I. is better, at least reacts to cars around them. Anyway, I am thinking that with 20 cars per track, it might be possibly to win only one or two races and win the series, because there is a much higher chance that the same driver will not be winning as many races as in GT4, unless the series races have say maybe 4 or 5 A.I. that are considerably better then the rest of the field. Do not know, either does anyone, but I believe that the series races will have to be changed in someways, probably the entire race structure really.
Would also really like to see many more single races, with say around 15 to 30 laps, for all ranges of horsepower and car types. I am not really a fan of the series races, if you was able to do them when you wanted or at least race single races, or practice etc. between the series races it would be better.

 

[SagarisGTB]

I think the larger fields will not create an extra difficulty if quali is an option for every race. If not, PD will probably allow faster cars in so more inexperienced drivers have a shot to win too.

Im curious to see how PD implements the larger fields into GT5. Heres how I imagine a good way to do it would be.

Hall1= Beginner hall
Hall2= Amateur hall (GT3) / Proffesional hall (GT4)
Hall3= Proffesional Hall (GT3) / Extreme hall (GT4)


6 car fields: -All events in Special Conditions/ Rally Hall

16 car fields: -All events in Hall1 (both championships and single races)
-All One make races (both championships and single races)
-All Single races in Region halls(Japanese,american, european,)
-All Single races in Hall2 and Hall3

20 car fields: -All Championships in Region Halls
-All Championships in Hall2 and Hall3

24 car fields: -Majority of events in Endurance hall ( ex. Tokyo, GVS, SSR11 etc.)

30 car fields: -All Endurance events on Motegi SS, Nordschliefe and LeSarthe
-Like the Wind in Hall3 (Test Course)

I think that would be the way Id do it. We will have to see what PD can do and how they do it.

 

[amar212]

I guess bigger fields - as seen in Vision GT game - has very little to do with an offline game.

If 15+ cars appear in the game, it would only have sence in higher-classs races and longer races including endurances. But.

But, I guess 15+ field shown on Vision GT is a teaser for online mode.

No matter that PS3 will be mega-powerfull console, lots of the shear power will be used to add enormous amounts of elements that will make GT5 a true next-gen game. Graphics, sounds, collision-model, upgraded AI behaviour, destructible enviroments, enourmuosley detailed race-atmospherilia, changeable weather conditions, day-night modes, physics model and so on - all of that will be using lots of Cell's power and no matter that many of us - HardCore players - would give anything to have 15+ field - it just won't be possible on one PS3 console - without seriousely loosing some of that details.

But it will be possible on 15+ PS3 consoles.

From the very begginings of PS3 talks, main issue was DISTRIBUTIVE COMPUTING. Distributive capabilities of the Cell will allow taht all elements listed above can persist, together with 15+ cars on the track at once - in online (multi-LAN) mode, where distributive computing is a reality.

Vision GT was an teaser. Of course, one can see it on the way he likes. The slogan "From partial reality to full reality" can be viewed as an hint of what will be going on in off-line, but if it is seen in wider-scale, then it becomes truly alive in online. Where the real racing is. Real-people in real-racing. Full reality.

My predictions goes to no more then 10+ cars in the game on a track in off-line, but of course, I would so love to be positively wrong on that particular issue .