Biggest lie ever?

  • Thread starter lemonsky
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The Shroud of Turin: modern photo of the face, positive left, digitally processed image right.
Material Linen
Size 4.4 by 1.1 metres (14 ft 5 in × 3 ft 7 in)
Present location Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist, Turin, Italy

THE QUESTION OF QUESTIONS
Looming above all other issues is what physicist Paolo Di Lazzaro calls “the question of questions”: how the image was produced, regardless of its age. Every scientific attempt to replicate it in a lab has failed. Its precise hue is highly unusual, and the color’s penetration into the fabric is extremely thin, less than 0.7 micrometers (0.000028 inches), one-thirtieth the diameter of an individual fiber in a single 200-fiber linen thread.
 
Isn't it true that the shroud of Turin has been refused permission to be radiocarbon dated?

There's no smoke without fire and I think it is alledged to have been made in the 1200s, making it no older than 800 years instead of dating to the time of Jesus.
 
Liquid
Isn't it true that the shroud of Turin has been refused permission to be radiocarbon dated?

There's no smoke without fire and I think it is alledged to have been made in the 1200s, making it no older than 800 years instead of dating to the time of Jesus.
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Good questions! I'm currently reading a book about it trying to find out, and I'm less than halfway through. Apparently, from what I've learned so far, it's been carbon tested two or three times, and all the resulting dates were from somewhere in the middle ages, with the validity of the dates being disputed for various reasons, such as the location (modern repairs) of the sample, water and fire damage of the sample, etc. I dunno. The history of the shroud for a certainty dates only to a Templar castle in the mid 14th Century. However, there are potential references to it from far earlier, and the image of the face is quite similar to Jesus iconography from far earlier as well. Whatever the truth of its age, the real mystery is how the image was made. It does appears to be the unexplainable image of a man, with grievous wounds from torture and crucifixion, who spent a few hours in a burial cloth. Don't know who it is and don't know if the man died in the cloth. Sorry, but that's the best I can do at the moment. I'll share more when/if I learn it.
 
Castrol96
A missing biggest lie is 9/11.
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The very best lies are the ones that are not only generally beautiful, useful or necessary, but positively inspiring, motivating, ennobling and self-affirming at a broad national level. See Big Lie and Noble Lie in wikipedia. These lies are worth repeating until they become integrated, accepted and finally immortalized as mythology in popular and corporate culture. The ugly truth, whatever it may be, is justifiably(?) suppressed for a very long time, but maybe not forever.
 
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Liquid
What makes you think it was "a lie"? It patently happened.
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Theres tons of proof that it was a inside job, where the hell where the interceptors for a start! Why the hell did most movies and cartoons hint 9/11! Why does the AMERICAN DOLLAR have a 9/11 picture when you fold it!!!
 
Touring Mars
Let's not go any further with this.

We covered 9/11 conspiracy theories to death at the time, so there is no need to go through it again in this thread.
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Only new, real evidence or a shift in popular beliefs would fully justify renewed discussion. The only real, new evidence I know about is the "28 pages" or whatever it was that revealed deeper Saudi backing. I don't know if there are polls which monitor popular beliefs over time, but maybe somebody will dig them up. Until then, if there is a lie at the heart of 9/11, it is clearly still useful and necessary, and therefore justified to maintain.
 
Dotini
Only new, real evidence or a shift in popular beliefs would fully justify renewed discussion. The only real, new evidence I know about is the "28 pages" or whatever it was that revealed deeper Saudi backing. I don't know if there are polls which monitor popular beliefs over time, but maybe somebody will dig them up. Until then, if there is a lie at the heart of 9/11, it is clearly still useful and necessary, and therefore justified to maintain.
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Pretty sure he meant that from a moderator angle not a friendly advice one. WE could talk about it in the appropriate thread which @BobK has provided, but this thread is about proven lies.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Pretty sure he meant that from a moderator angle not a friendly advice one. WE could talk about it in the appropriate thread which @BobK has provided, but this thread is about proven lies.
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That makes no sense to me. What is a "proven lie"? Is it a lie which literally everyone knows is false? Or is it a lie which some people cling to?

On there OP, there is a list of suggested lies:

Columbus discovering the "new world"?
2003 Iraq invasion over WMD's?
Gulf of Tonkin incident?
Einstein failing mathematics?
Communism?
Capitalism?
Jesus Christ?
The Holocaust?
Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the Japanese aggression?
The Bible?
Dianetics?
Mandatory taxation?
Politics?
Healthy smoking?
"I agree to the terms of service"?
Black people can't swim?

It seems to me there is comtroversy still swirling around most of them. My own contribution to the list of great lies was:
Dotini
As I've mentioned in some other threads, the greatest (i.e., most necessary, useful or beautiful) lie ever told is resurrection and eternal life.
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This garnered 7 likes, but it is not "proven", is it?

So No, I must reject the notion this thread can only be about "proven" lies.
 
Dotini
That makes no sense to me. What is a "proven lie"? Is it a lie which literally everyone knows is false? Or is it a lie which some people cling to?

On there OP, there is a list of suggested lies:

Columbus discovering the "new world"?
2003 Iraq invasion over WMD's?
Gulf of Tonkin incident?
Einstein failing mathematics?
Communism?
Capitalism?
Jesus Christ?
The Holocaust?
Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the Japanese aggression?
The Bible?
Dianetics?
Mandatory taxation?
Politics?
Healthy smoking?
"I agree to the terms of service"?
Black people can't swim?

It seems to me there is comtroversy still swirling around most of them. My own contribution to the list of great lies was:


This garnered 7 likes, but it is not "proven", is it?

So No, I must reject the notion this thread can only be about "proven" lies.
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Still doesn't change the main point which is that advice from a mod wasn't suggested by a clear designation. As for suggested lies in the OP those have been proven.

Your lie in regards to spiritual stuff, hasn't ever been found to warrant any basis in reality so until it's proven otherwise I'd say it's a nice story, but no basis in reality. If it did then make next life will be that of an AH-64 but in stealth configuration.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Still doesn't change the main point which is that advice from a mod wasn't suggested by a clear designation (what the heck does this mean??). As for suggested lies in the OP those have been proven.

Your lie in regards to spiritual stuff, hasn't ever been found to warrant any basis in reality so until it's proven otherwise I'd say it's a nice story, but no basis in reality. If it did then make next life will be that of an AH-64 but in stealth configuration.
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To be clear, all the below are proven lies, and everyone here stipulates to this proven fact!

Columbus discovering the "new world"?
2003 Iraq invasion over WMD's?
Gulf of Tonkin incident?
Einstein failing mathematics?
Communism? - Proven lie?
Capitalism? - Proven lie?
Jesus Christ? - Proven lie? Jesus never lived at all??
The Holocaust? - Proven lie?
Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the Japanese aggression?
The Bible?
Dianetics?
Mandatory taxation?
Politics? - Proven lie?
Healthy smoking?
"I agree to the terms of service"?
Black people can't swim?
 
Dotini
To be clear, all the below are proven lies, and everyone here stipulates to this proven fact!

Columbus discovering the "new world"?
2003 Iraq invasion over WMD's?
Gulf of Tonkin incident?
Einstein failing mathematics?
Communism?
Capitalism?
Jesus Christ?
The Holocaust?
Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the Japanese aggression?
The Bible?
Dianetics?
Mandatory taxation?
Politics?
Healthy smoking?
"I agree to the terms of service"?
Black people can't swim?
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Yes all of those are proven lies. Also there was a typo in that quote. It should say "it wasn't a suggestion but a designated order"

Offer is still open if you want to hash out 9/11 conspiracy in the appropriate thread.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Yes all of those are proven lies. Also there was a typo in that quote. It should say "it wasn't a suggestion but a designated order"

Offer is still open if you want to hash out 9/11 conspiracy in the appropriate thread.
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I wouldn't touch 9/11 with a ten foot pole. For sure there's lies in the 9/11 narrative, but they're too good, too useful, too important to our self-image, well-being and national health to challenge for many years to come.

I think it's safe to challenge the lie that Oswald acted alone in the assassination of JFK.

Edit:

Politics is not a lie. It's a process.
Communism and Capitalism are not lies. They are systems of government and economics.
The Holocaust is not a lie. Many, many people in the mainstream media say it's all too true.
Jesus was very likely a man who lived (and died). You can't prove he didn't exist. Resurrection is a different matter.
 
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Dotini
I wouldn't touch 9/11 with a ten foot pole. For sure there's lies in the 9/11 narrative, but they're too good, too useful, too important to our self-image, well-being and national health to challenge for many years to come.
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If you say so

I think it's safe to challenge the lie that Oswald acted alone in the assassination of JFK.
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Sure but this isn't the thread for it, that'd be the same thread @BobK posted. Even if I agree with you (which I do) still a conspiracy until proven. Just like I figured the Gulf of Tonkin was false, but couldn't say so until proven, and then it was.

Edit:

Politics is not a lie.
Communism and Capitalism are not lies.
The Holocaust is not a lie.
Jesus was a man who lived (and died). Resurrection is a different matter.
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Politics is not a lie, you're right, it several lies.

Ironically this leads into how Communism and Capitalism are lies, as the actual theory on them isn't, but the working order and guise were never used like that actual theory so now we get back to politics being a lie(s)

Holocaust wasn't one of the things you listed in your post, so let me be clear, what you posted from the OP I agree are all lies. Considering this was not one of those, and if it had been I'd have said it wasn't a lie...why have you all of a sudden decided to post it as if it was from your original posting?

Correct Jesus (GEE-ZUS) was a man there were a few Gee-Zus in that time, however THEE Jesus and his holier than thou implications aren't all that true or proven thus...Jesus, so of God is a "insert thread title"

Is the biblical idea of Jesus nice, sure, has it been proven or verified? Nope.
 
If a lie has been proven to a lie, then it's not worth discussion. Who would give a rat's ass about a dead issue?

If a lie has not been proven, then it shouldn't be in this thread, but in the conspiracy thread, according to the mod.

Therefore this thread is useless, pointless, without merit or virtue, and shouldn't it be closed? All in favor say "aye". All against say "nay", but provide your reasoning.
 
Dotini
If a lie has been proven to a lie, then it's not worth discussion. Who would give a rat's ass about a dead issue?
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Many threads, that do this not just this one. Some times people like to say things that have no real discussion power, just to have agreement with others.

If a lie has not been proven, then it shouldn't be in this thread, but in the conspiracy thread, according to the mod.
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I agree, but a lie that hasn't been proven and is argued up and down like 9/11 shouldn't even need to be rehashed over and over. Simply reading over the pages should be enough. If there is need to talk about it the conspiracy thread is the best place to take it, in light of new evidence.

Therefore this thread is useless, pointless, without merit or virtue, and shouldn't it be closed? All in favor say "aye". All against say "nay", but provide your reasoning.
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Once again I could give several useless and pointless threads, just cause I or you find them as such doesn't mean we're validated. So who cares, other than us. The end.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
So who cares, other than us. The end.
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I care a great deal about lies. Our society, especially here in the USA, if rife with lies and hypocrisy. Our current civilization could not function without lies.

Having devoted much study to lies, I came to an original hypothesis: "Sometimes a beautiful, useful or necessary lie is justified in preference to an ugly truth."

Also this: "I've given up the search for truth. Now I'm merely looking for a good time."
 
Dotini
I care a great deal about lies. Our society, especially here in the USA, if rife with lies and hypocrisy. Our current civilization could not function without lies.
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That's nice.

Having devoted much study to lies, I came to an original hypothesis: "Sometimes a beautiful, useful or necessary lie is justified in preference to an ugly truth."
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Dude, it's just a thread about what people consider the biggest lie.

Also this: "I've given up the search for truth. Now I'm merely looking for a good time."
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Okay.
 

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