Biggest tuning secret! Rear toe!

[Poppins]

A Mclaren F1 has drag co-efficient of 0.32, SSC 0.35, Koenigsegg CCX 0.30 yet the Veyron beats them all...I'm not some Veyron lover but these are just the unfortunate facts.

Yes and the reason it beats them all is because it has 1000 HP and 850 LB ft of torque.

The Koenigsegg goes very fast BTW, and Im sure if any of them had 1000 HP they would go faster.

The SL65 at 1530 KG and 996 HP 1050 Lb Ft and 0.31 drag coeff can go faster then a stock Veyron yes.

 

[berzerkfvry]

We should continue this in the 400kph+ thread and let this thread go on back about toe angle =P

 

[budious]

All cars come with +.20 rear with exception to x1 which has +.50 rear and -.50 front default.

I've checked it numerous times on factory shocks and custom shock defaults, it's always been the norm for +.20 rear unless it's a special case car then it is some other value but I've never seen one that had 0.00 stock as far as I remember.

 

[r0llinlacs]

Ok, I'm just now understanding what adjusting the camber and toe does (on the track).

Technically, by adjusting toe settings, I can make a car that has (fixed) 4 wheel steering?

It seems to help cornering immensely, but can de-stabilize the car in straight lines and also make correcting over-steer harder.

I give negative toe in the rear, positive in the front. I did .50, -.50 on my GT-R and it wanted to turn by itself! lol I couldn't keep it in a straight line at all. (I know that's way too much toe, but was testing to find out the effect it actually has)

 

[Poppins]

- toe in the front increases steering sensitivity but at the same time causes a tiny bit of oversteer, so -0.10 is fairly good

+ toe in the front decreases how sensitive it is and causes a bit of understeer.

Rear is pretty much the same. Set it - and your cars back end will want to turn more

 

[GT5SER]

A Mclaren F1 has drag co-efficient of 0.32, SSC 0.35, Koenigsegg CCX 0.30 yet the Veyron beats them all...I'm not some Veyron lover but these are just the unfortunate facts.

Don't forget about the Prius. Look it up.

- Jeramy

 

[Rotorist]

Ok, I'm just now understanding what adjusting the camber and toe does (on the track).

Technically, by adjusting toe settings, I can make a car that has (fixed) 4 wheel steering?

It seems to help cornering immensely, but can de-stabilize the car in straight lines and also make correcting over-steer harder.

I give negative toe in the rear, positive in the front. I did .50, -.50 on my GT-R and it wanted to turn by itself! lol I couldn't keep it in a straight line at all. (I know that's way too much toe, but was testing to find out the effect it actually has)

That's why in Vettel's challenge, X2010 cannot get stabilized when passes the 350kph limit. It has a F:.50, R:-.50 toe setting.

 

[Z1-AV69]

I'm quite sure the Vettel has F: -50 R: +50 toe. That's still one of the main reasons the car drives like crap.

 

[Lambob]

That's why in Vettel's challenge, X2010 cannot get stabilized when passes the 350kph limit. It has a F:.50, R:-.50 toe setting.

note to self: Don't exceed 350Kmp in hairpins. Thanks!

staying OT, I believe the Flintstones use a lot of Toe to get around in their car.

 

[RA1D3R]

I was tunig a Camaro SS '00 and I just couldn't get it to turn so I set to toe to -.15 and that fixed it completely.

 

[nasanu]

So toe out REDUCES oversteer?.. Huh? According to the much linked to scaff's tuning guide this is the opposite. Is it the same on the front also? - front will give better turn in?

 

[MadMike'86]

This is a load of crap....

Toe-in helps inprove turn-in and cornering.

Toe-out helps improve stability but can hamper turn-in.

Ok some cars do turn-in better with toe-out, this is a general rule.

Google toe and see what it says....

 

[oppositelock]

This is a load of crap....

Toe-in helps inprove turn-in and cornering.

Toe-out helps improve stability but can hamper turn-in.

Ok some cars do turn-in better with toe-out, this is a general rule.

Google toe and see what it says....

Ok.

http://www.nyracer.com/overunder.htm

 

[Poppins]

toe out will make your steering more sensitive pretty much for the front and maybe a bit of understeer but you cant notice much when its set only at -0.10

 

[budious]

I'm quite sure the Vettel has F: -50 R: +50 toe. That's still one of the main reasons the car drives like crap.

I think all the formula like cars in the game use these same toe settings. I recently acquired the Ferrari Formula 2007 to do the seasonal event races and it came with the same toe defaults. I adjusted it down to -.10F/+.10R and found it made the car much easier to drive with a pad.

 

[Cavallo Rosso]

If I have a car that understeers, I usually set the Front toe at around -10. If that doesn't fix it, then I remove positive toe in the rear from the default setting of +20 to around +12. Most of my cars are set this way, it's a good balance for non- mid engine cars. so F -10, R +12 and the car usually hugs the rumble strips on the hair pins.

With most mid engine cars, I tend to put positive tow on the front instead to correct over steering. I rarely add to the+20 in the rear.

With AWD cars, I keep the numbers balanced sometimes. So if I keep the +20 in the rear, I usually go -20 in the front. If that doesn't help the understeering, I'll go -20 in the front and +10 in the rear. I like over steer though, so these settings might not help if you don't stiffen the rear springs and put the brake balance in shifted towards the front. Otherwise, the rear will slip out.

 

[Poppins]

I wouldnt add + front toe ever, you can correct it without affecting steering much if you just put a harder front spring rate or more + rear toe.

 

[Cavallo Rosso]

I wouldnt add + front toe ever, you can correct it without affecting steering much if you just put a harder front spring rate or more + rear toe.

I rarely add + rear toe because it will only add to more under steer. And it pays to add + front toe if a car is tail happy

 

[Poppins]

Are you joking me? Seriously...


More rear positive toe makes it way more stable going in a straight line, and therefore alot less tail happy and barely affects understeer at all. Positive toe in the front give you massive understeer and doesnt do **** all for keeping it stable under heavy acceleration.

 

[articzap]

Are you joking me? Seriously...


More rear positive toe makes it way more stable going in a straight line, and therefore alot less tail happy and barely affects understeer at all. Positive toe in the front give you massive understeer and doesnt do **** all for keeping it stable under heavy acceleration.

Any more then .05 rear toe is just scrubbing speed away. Doesn't take a lot to keep it straight.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Any more then .05 rear toe is just scrubbing speed away. Doesn't take a lot to keep it straight.

Have you actually tested that in the game or is it just a thoery? Why not 0.01 then? How much difference in mph or kph on the same long straight under the same situation with 0.25 or 0.50 or 1.0?

In the real world many of my competitors believe this also and set their rear toe to zero. All the while, I watch them dance through the corner with a tail happy car as I get back to the throttle at about the apex and come off the corner 5 mph faster than them which tends to equate to 15 mph faster than them by the end of the straight.

Just asking if anyone has really tested things or just think it's logical so it must be true.

 

[articzap]

Have you actually tested that in the game or is it just a thoery? Why not 0.01 then? How much difference in mph or kph on the same long straight under the same situation with 0.25 or 0.50 or 1.0?

In the real world many of my competitors believe this also and set their rear toe to zero. All the while, I watch them dance through the corner with a tail happy car as I get back to the throttle at about the apex and come off the corner 5 mph faster than them which tends to equate to 15 mph faster than them by the end of the straight.

Just asking if anyone has really tested things or just think it's logical so it must be true.

You also have to take in to account the extra tire wear from toe, which is why a lot of people set up there cars with 0 or very little. Usually just enough to help keep it straight. I have done testing in pure straight line comparisons and stand by what I say. 0 toe was best, but a little is noticeable.

 

[Motor City Hami]

You also have to take in to account the extra tire wear from toe, which is why a lot of people set up there cars with 0 or very little. Usually just enough to help keep it straight. I have done testing in pure straight line comparisons and stand by what I say. 0 toe was best, but a little is noticeable.

I could argue that zero toe can increase tire wear. If a car is sliding the rear around mid corner through exit, tire wear will increase and be far more drastic than the minimal scrub you get on a straight.

 

[oppositelock]

I run full 1.00 rear toe-in on tons of cars and have never had an excessive tire wear issue. It might be more noticeable in an A-Spec endurance but I haven't done one yet. I'm not even sure it's a factor. Just sayin'.

 

[articzap]

I could argue that zero toe can increase tire wear. If a car is sliding the rear around mid corner through exit, tire wear will increase and be far more drastic than the minimal scrub you get on a straight.

Most will also argue that riding a small slip angle will increase lap times. You shouldn't drive a car to full on sliding though.

 

[Poppins]

Any more then .05 rear toe is just scrubbing speed away. Doesn't take a lot to keep it straight.

Umm no, you are wrong, it increases acceleration to the point where you can gain a few MPH out of the tunnel at SSR7 by going from 0.00 to 0.50, which is actually gaining and not losing speed since I tested it in my SLR Mclaren and hit 400+ km/hr with both.

You also have to take in to account the extra tire wear from toe, which is why a lot of people set up there cars with 0 or very little. Usually just enough to help keep it straight. I have done testing in pure straight line comparisons and stand by what I say. 0 toe was best, but a little is noticeable.

I dont notice any extra tire wear AT ALL. (but i will say that i dont set it over 0.20 because its pointless)

I run full 1.00 rear toe-in on tons of cars and have never had an excessive tire wear issue. It might be more noticeable in an A-Spec endurance but I haven't done one yet. I'm not even sure it's a factor. Just sayin'.

Lol I have no idea why you'd run 1.00 in the rear but to each his own, but I also think there is no tire wear increase.

 

[articzap]

Umm no, you are wrong, it increases acceleration to the point where you can gain a few MPH out of the tunnel at SSR7 by going from 0.00 to 0.50, which is actually gaining and not losing speed since I tested it in my SLR Mclaren and hit 400+ km/hr with both.

More speed doesn't mean you got there faster! 💡

 

[Poppins]

How the **** not? I start and end at the exact same point. It is a PURE top speed run, and with the same car it goes faster at 0.50 at the same point.

 

[PiRacingChamp]

I believe some of you might be comparing apples and oranges. The stock setting IN game are almost always .20. However, in the real world that is certainly NOT the case. Please make sure we are all speaking the same language

 

[Adrenaline]

How the **** not? I start and end at the exact same point. It is a PURE top speed run, and with the same car it goes faster at 0.50 at the same point.

So, if my car gets to 199mph in 5 seconds
and yours gets to 200mph in 10 seconds, your car is faster, because you went a higher speed down the straight?
Brilliant.

'Faster' is a relative term.
Far too much assuming and ignoring for any debate in this thread to be valuable thus far.