Blu-ray vs. HD DVD Discussion Thread

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I'm going with....

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Actually now that I think about it... the storage capacity is so insane I see this as tech for commercial use more than home. At least for now.
 
I've also been following Holographic Tech closely over the last 4 years or so, I even posted it one here some time back showing InPhase's tech. This type of storage will come in handy once Quad HD becomes the main stay in display resolution. PS4 or 390 may have these, especially given Sony track record they may have their own in the works.

edit found the link LINK
 
And then there were three:
HD VMD discs, which hold up to 30GB on a single side, are encoded with a maximum bit rate of 40 megabits per second; that's within halfway between HD DVD's 36 mpbs and Blu-ray's 48 mbps. The format uses MPEG-2 and VC1 video formats to encode at 1080p resolution for the time being, and will possibly move to the H.264 format in the future. Levich said the video quality is "at least as good" as that of the other formats. Using a projection system, HD VMD reps showed me clips of "We Were Soldiers" and "Apocalypto." The movies looked very good--not as stunning as I expected, but I'd just arrived from the CEDIA show floor, where every television vendor uses phenomenal, highly doctored content to show off their products.
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While I think its pretty useless to enter so late (BD is probably going to win now, unless HD-DVD has a serious upset), I will ask if blue lasers are inferior to red lasers in some way.
 
Just to go back to a previous topic: Paramount supporting only HD-DVD for 1,5 years.

As a PS3 owner, I'm a BluRay supporter. Fact is, I REALLY wanted "Shooter" on BluRay. It has been released in US a long time ago, but this BD is not compatible with an EU-PS3 afaik. So I waited an extra few months just to see Paramount dropping all BluRay releases shortly after releasing Shooter. The BD was sold out probably on first day and the ALREADY produced discs that haven't been sent to sellers have been destroyed :grumpy:
Could've bought the US-DVD long time ago.. Still haven't seen the film! Definitly won't buy it on HD-DVD even tough I like "Toshiba" (-TVs) A friend already bought it on DVD, so I don't have to buy it ;) I'm avoiding Paramount releases for the next few months (hmm, weeks? :D )
But if they release "Becker" (TV-Series) on DVD I'm all happy again ^^
 
SpawnCH
Just to go back to a previous topic: Paramount supporting only HD-DVD for 1,5 years.

As a PS3 owner, I'm a BluRay supporter. Fact is, I REALLY wanted "Shooter" on BluRay. It has been released in US a long time ago, but this BD is not compatible with an EU-PS3 afaik. So I waited an extra few months just to see Paramount dropping all BluRay releases shortly after releasing Shooter. The BD was sold out probably on first day and the ALREADY produced discs that haven't been sent to sellers have been destroyed :grumpy:
Could've bought the US-DVD long time ago.. Still haven't seen the film! Definitly won't buy it on HD-DVD even tough I like "Toshiba" (-TVs) A friend already bought it on DVD, so I don't have to buy it ;) I'm avoiding Paramount releases for the next few months (hmm, weeks? :D )
But if they release "Becker" (TV-Series) on DVD I'm all happy again ^^
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Well, the US Blu-ray of shooter works fine with my PS3 :).
So it will with yours. Paramount and Warner have no region codes.
And there is a British Blu-ray of Shooter with German language if you need that. You might get that one on Ebay.co.uk ...
 
It looks like Hitachi has found a way to make 4-layer 100GB Blu-ray discs that can be read by current Blu-ray laser pick-ups:

New 100 GB Blu-ray Disc Compatible With Existing Drives, being developed by Hitachi
Posted on 10/8/07 on TechShout
Hitachi has developed a prototype four layer Blu-Ray disc that includes a 100GB storage capacity. Hitachi unveiled the disc at CEATEC JAPAN 2007.

Apparently, what’s really special about Hitachi’s latest prototype is that the company has used a standard Blu-Ray drive optical head that’s only slightly modified making it possible to read and write data across the four 25GB layers. It seems this will only require a firmware update to make current drives compatible. In the previous 100GB discs of various other companies, a specially developed optical head in the player had to be developed to read the disc

Reportedly, the hardware manufacturer is now in the move to stabilize signal quality before launching it into the commercial market.

In addition, Hitachi is also exploring an eight layer disc that can hold 200GB of data; however it has faced problems with reflections decreasing signal strength across the eight layers, which it is working to set right.
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This is significant, because while 100GB and even 200GB Blu-ray discs have been developed in the labs, all required an entirely different pick-up assembly.

If this works out, then it will be possible to have 100GB and eventually 200GB PS3 games on a single disc... roughly 25 times the size of a game on a DVD.

In terms of video and disc space, it would mean more than 6 times the size of an HD DVD.
 
On a similar note, I'd like to add that the 51GB HD-DVD discs that they're working on are NOT compatible with current dual-layer HD-DVD players. It should be quite interesting to see how they market those.
 
Not very happy.... :mad: Not very happy at all. Why must the consumer be the victim of these multiple formats? It seems clear that Blu-ray will come on top of this format war (in my opinion) so why are home movie makers picking one format over the other? I know why, but it upsets me. I couldn't wait for Transformers to come out on Blu-ray, only to find out it's an HD-DVD exclusive title. IF I could trust my 360 from not dieing again, I might consider getting one for it, but with the fragile characteristic of the 360, I don't want to invest my money into another paper weight. I'm really just venting here, but it pissed me off last night. I can't wait for HD-DVD to die.....
 
Digital-Nitrate
If you really want to spin your head, take a momen to read up on Optware's HVD format (Holographic Versatile Disc).

I've seen it being demontrated now twice over the last three years and its freaking amazing!

The technology behind HVD is based on Optware's exclusive servo system and CHDSS (Collinear Holographic Data Storage System) which Hideyoshi Horimai, founder of Optware Corp., originally developed back in 1999.

Collinear holography uses a 532-nanometer green laser to read holographic data on a disc. The light from the laser is split into two beams. Data to be recorded is encoded onto one of the beams while the other beam is used as a reference. The two beams interfere with each other inside the disc's recording layer, thus creating a three-dimensional hologram composed of data fringes, and in this way data is stored.

In a nut-shell HVD is capable of making discs the size of a standard DVD, store up to 3.7 terabytes of data and at transfer speeds of over 1GBps! :eek:

The same technology is alredy being used by Optware to store 30GB of data on a solid state flash card smaller than a credit card:

HVC_05-06-08_01.jpg


They even have the ability to store up to 100 GB on a postage size stamp. :eek:

InPhase's has a similar product called HDS Tapestry drives, and Maxwell has been making HDS discs as well.

Now wouldn't it be fun to store 1,000 DVDs on one disc. :D
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Oh, like one of these:

iso-old-4.jpg


http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Isolinear_chip

I wish Star Trek could predict the HD format war.



Michael Bay: "Blu-Ray is where the money is."
http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/dvd/2007-10-22-transformers-bay_N.htm
 
And some of my old time AV geeks still wonder why I stopped participating and writing articles for AVS over the last few years and more recently even on HTF...

Format War Fanboys Shut Down AVS Forum

HD Disc Format Areas Currently Closed For Posts
Posted on Nov 6, 2007 by AVS NOTICE SYSTEM
To the Members and Guests of AVS Forum:

Many of you know first hand that AVS Forum is first and foremost a site dedicated to helping others get the best out of the equipment they own. We promote the in home audio and video experience. People helping people.

With that said, we are sad to say that this is only the second time in the history of AVS Forum where we needed to close down some sections of the site for a short time. In this case, it is the HD format areas for HD DVD and Blu-ray which will be closed to new posts.

Why are we taking such an action? Simple, we want you all to know a few things that we like and that we do not like about what has been taking place here on the site and elsewhere. We hope to also give some of the most vocal posters in those sections time to think about what they may be doing to the site and the formats they may support in general.

First, AVS Forum as a site and a company that is NEUTRAL on the format war. Anyone who says otherwise just is not informed as to what AVS Forum is all about. In fact, we had both Blu-ray and HD DVD as sponsors at the AVS Forum CEDIA 2007 party in September where both camps had a chance to say a few words to the 400+ people that attended. Both camps were outstanding for their support of the AVS Forum community and we look forward to working with both as we have been. Also both sides have been sponsors of the site by running ads here to which helps support the site. We thank them both for this support and their continued support. Without the ads and the ad dollars for them and other site sponsors, AVS Forum could not operate.

Second, We love the HD formats in general. In fact Alan, David, Jason, and others who help here use both formats. Why? Simple, we love movies and care to watch them in hi-def form no matter what that may be. (Yes, we also owned DVHS!) No matter how this all shakes out in the end, we will still be watching movies and doing so happily in 1080P.

Third, while AVS Forum seems to be the top place this war is being fought, we really do not like how the members are acting as of late. We have until now tried to deal with it as we can, but now it has come to this. We have seen members attacking other members not only in debate, which is the right way, but with physical threats that have involved police and possible legal action. This type of behavior is just not welcome here PERIOD. To the extent that some of you have gone to support either format is just, well, disgusting and has no place on this site. The amount of misinformation posted here and other places on-line HELPS NO ONE. You are doing NO ONE any good, not even your own format of choice. Why? Think about it, you post false information that then later proves to be just that, false, how does that help the cause? In fact it hurts it. So do not believe all that you read and restate it as fact.

AVS Forum gets it from both sides..."You removed my post. I support HD DVD and you all back Blu-ray so you censor my posts!!! Your a #$#@$#@!!!!" And on the flip side... "You and your site is nothing more than a shill for HD DVD, I will seek legal action for my post removals and the truth will come out." People, come on now, AVS Forum has been on the net long before digital projectors. When DVD's were still a new thing. To think we are paid off or bought out by one side or another is just, well, silly not to mention FALSE. If we were to do that, well, the site would not be like it is today.

It is by the actions we take to try to keep the site a helpful place that leads members to accuse us as bias one way or another. This is all based on what was removed. The moderators (mod) are accused by BOTH sides of being one sided. Kind of funny really for the member who does the yelling, only does so based on his attack of one format being removed thus accuses the mod of being biased. Yet that same mod may have removed 5 posts for the "other side" for the same type of behavior. Go figure. To the people saying such things, you really do not know what takes place now do you? You only see your side. You were wronged after all. That's ok, we are all only human and most of that time that is our nature to feel hurt by such actions. So please think about it before you attack the mods or the site. You may just understand we are trying to keep things from getting worse.

For those of you who think we are all HD DVD, this is NOT our doing and NOT the case. Remember, AVS Forum is known in the industry as the site for the early adopters. As such, the first one out of the gate would look to have more support than any other based on the early units and posts here on the site. It is catchy and thus starts to stick. But AVS Forum, as a site, is NOT for one format or another as mentioned. It would not be our place to make such a choice.

After all, their is a lot more to this site than just these formats. We see over 200 thousand people a day and receive over 9,000 new posts daily. We even see 500+ NEW member registrations a day. People are all not here for just the format war. Not even close. But seeing we are the largest site of it's kind on the net today, we do get the bulk of the format war activity right to our doorstep.

With that said, when we do reopen the areas, and we will, please, please be so kind to THINK before you post in these sections. If your post is self serving to just attack the other format, please do not post and go elsewhere. If you are posting just to provoke others, please go elsewhere. If you are not helping someone in someway and just care to put down their choice of product, please go elsewhere. We will not allow for the threats and the outright bashing to take place. We can close the account and even remove all the posts made by the account. As such, what a waist of time some would have had on the site.

All in all we kindly ask you to please consider what you are posting before you post it. Also consider your actions towards others and that included the mods, the admins, and the site itself. Remember, false and misleading information posted here or elsewhere can lead to issues for yourself or your place of employment if posting from a corporate network. One of our favorite movies lines..."evil begets evil"...so please be helpful.

Thank you all for your help in keeping AVS Forum the place to be for help, support, and good information. We are truly sorry to those of you affected by this that should not be.

Side note...Please do not PM us or contact us about this (admins or mods). You see, we already hear it all from both sides good and bad. Not to mention we get enough mail and PM's as it is in our normal operations. If sent, they will not be replied to. Thank you for your understanding.

AVS Forum
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The truth is that while the format war has attracted a lot of trolls, and it has brought out the worst behavior in many people, AVS and most recently HTF has had an ever increasing populous of biased fanboys, members with hidden agendas, and even shills for several years now, cluttering the otherwise useful and thought provoking threads with countless junk posts with a massive amount of misinformation, causing such a bad signal to noise ratio that it is practically impossible now to filter through all the hyperbole in order to find that one nugget of intelligent and accurate information.

This recent format war has just made it all so much worse though... and just the thought that members are threatening other members with physical violence is not only utterly ridiculous, but also frightening that anyone would even consider taking it that far.

👎
 
Digital-Nitrate
This recent format war has just made it all so much worse though... and just the thought that members are threatening other members with physical violence is not only utterly ridiculous, but also frightening that anyone would even consider taking it that far.

👎
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AVS Forums used to be such a nice place... Fanboys are definitely not helping keeping things clear for those who are just trying to settle on one or the other format...

But I'm a really loud Sony Fanboy, as you all know, so what do I know..
 
What a bunch of tools, seriously..... Fanboyism can be kinda cute in moderation, but.....

I've decided to go with Blu ray, because of PS3(also means Gran Turismo) + its' strong backing from studios. And for this very reason, my good buddy at work calls me a PS3/Blu ray/Japanese fanboy. It is almost funny, because he is the Xbox fanboy in the truest sense. He actually told me(just last week, I think) that everything he read on this format war, HD DVD was beating Blu ray in every way.

Huh?

I don't even argue with him anymore when he calls me a fanboy. Arguing a fanboy is a pure waste of time.

And remember when last week, there were few older HD DVD players sold for $99 at some Bestbuys and Walmarts? I actually tried to get one, and he knows this. Scary thing is, he probably still think I'm a Blu ray fanboy, just because I'd still choose Blu ray and PS3 over HD DVD and Xbox 360.
 
I've read in another forum a few days ago about a new version of Blu-Ray, like BD 2.0 or something like that. It said the current BD players won't be compatible with this new version and none of them except for the PS3 will be able to update the firmware for it.

Does anyone have more info about that?
 
FatAssBR
I've read in another forum a few days ago about a new version of Blu-Ray, like BD 2.0 or something like that. It said the current BD players won't be compatible with this new version and none of them except for the PS3 will be able to update the firmware for it.

Does anyone have more info about that?
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Found this :

20 August 2007 5:40 GMT - Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment has announced its first "Platinum" Blu-ray Disc titles with BD-Live.

The BD-Live discs will feature advanced interactivity, including live web-enabled and picture-in-picture bonus features.

The four new titles will be "Sleeping Beauty", "Finding Nemo", "National Treasure", and "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe".

As an example of the new interactivity Disney says "Sleeping Beauty" will offer a virtual castle and multi-player activities.

"The Platinum titles are the crown jewels of the Disney Studio, and we do not take releasing them lightly on any format", said Bob Chapek, Disney president.

"The proven Blu-ray technology has allowed us to take our films to new heights, fully utilizing the larger capacity and interactive capabilities for an incredible all-new consumer experience."

No current Blu-ray players can handle picture-in-picture interactivity although gamers will be happy to know that the PlayStation 3 can access the internet based BD-Live content.

All Blu-ray players introduced after October 31 are required to handle the new picture-in-picture as well as offer 1GB of memory for internet downloads.

Although ultimately offering the consumer more bang for their buck, the introduction of BD-Live may frustrate some already confused about the next-gen formats.
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Guess you're right... If you adapted early, you're probably **** out of luck...
 
Flerbizky
Guess you're right... If you adapted early, you're probably **** out of luck...
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Except for the wise folks that did their research and saw that the PS3 had the hardware for future BD-j support, among other BD related features. 👍

Although in all fairness, being an early adopter has both advantages and disadvantages, which most early adopters realize and accept when they buy new products... that said, you'll still find many of them complaining about the lack of features, support, and huge depreciation of their equipment, as the internet has in many ways become the ultimate tool & outlet for complainers. :)
 
Digital-Nitrate
... as the internet has in many ways become the ultimate tool & outlet for complainers. :)
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Right :D Along the same observation, the www is the greatest source of information the world has ever seen (that's good), conversely it is also the greatest source of disinformation as well (that's bad). Fortunately the good far outweighs the bad 👍👍


Anyhoo... back on topic, interesting commentary by Howard Stringer here:

(in part from this Forbes.com article):
The head of Sony Corp., Howard Stringer, said Thursday that the Blu-ray disc format the company has developed as the successor to the DVD is in a "stalemate" with the competing HD DVD format, chiefly backed by Toshiba Corp. and Microsoft Corp.

"It's a difficult fight," said Stringer, speaking at the 92nd Street Y cultural center in Manhattan.

"We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while, until Paramount changed sides," Stringer said.

At the same time, he played down the importance of the battle, saying it was mostly a matter of prestige whose format wins out in the end.
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Mostly a matter of "prestige" as to who wins? I thought it was mostly a matter of money if the form of royalty checks for owning the rights to a proprietary format. Did I miss something 'cause I don't remember seeing "prestige accumulation" on a quarterly balance sheet ;)
 
icelt
Mostly a matter of "prestige" as to who wins? I thought it was mostly a matter of money if the form of royalty checks for owning the rights to a proprietary format. Did I miss something 'cause I don't remember seeing "prestige accumulation" on a quarterly balance sheet ;)
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I think he means that the image of prestige will be what sells it. In other words, do you look better if you have BD or HD-DVD? If you think you will look better or cooler, more prestigious with one then you will buy that one.

The one with the most prestige will translate to more sales which will then be on a quarterly balance sheet.
 
FoolKiller
I think he means that the image of prestige will be what sells it. In other words, do you look better if you have BD or HD-DVD? If you think you will look better or cooler, more prestigious with one then you will buy that one.

The one with the most prestige will translate to more sales which will then be on a quarterly balance sheet.
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Seems a more reasonable explanation, but something still seems amiss to me.

"We were trying to win on the merits, which we were doing for a while, until Paramount changed sides," Stringer said.

At the same time, he played down the importance of the battle, saying it was mostly a matter of prestige whose format wins out in the end.
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Maybe it is an unintentional inflection on the part of the writer, but it sounds like Stringer was downplaying the "importance of the battle" because he did not foresee significant future profit margins resulting from being the format victor. Or maybe he meant that that as a content owner Sony will profit regardless of who wins in the end and that the potential benefit of having their format win is not all that significant. Thus, depending on how one reads this, the eventual victor has won little more than to publicly pat themselves on the back.

Or, and MS would really prefer this outcome, Stringer feels that HD content distribution through the internet will mature rapidly and result in the HD disc era being relatively short, again minimizing potential profits from royalties.

Seems like we could benefit from the text of the whole presentation and not just one individuals synopsis.
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idUSN0432340820080104

Warner Bros to back Blu-ray DVD format exclusively

NEW YORK/LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Time Warner Inc's (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Warner Bros studio on Friday said it would exclusively release high-definition DVDs in Sony Corp's (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) Blu-ray format, dealing a big blow to Toshiba Corp's (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) rival HD DVD technology.

Warner Bros, Hollywood's biggest seller of DVDs, representing about 18 to 20 percent of sales in the United States, was one of the few studios that backed both formats.

All sides of the format war had agreed it was confusing to consumers and a stumbling block for a potential multibillion-dollar industry.

Total DVD unit sales fell 4.5 percent in 2007, the first major year-over-year decline since the disc format debuted in 1997, according to Adams Media Research. Sales fell 4.8 percent to $15.7 billion.

"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers," Warner Bros Chairman and Chief Executive Barry Meyer said in a statement.

News Corp's (NWSa.N: Quote, Profile, Research) 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney Co (DIS.N: Quote, Profile, Research), and Lionsgate (LGF.N: Quote, Profile, Research) are among studios backing the Blu-ray format. Viacom Inc's (VIAb.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Paramount studios and General Electric's (GE.N: Quote, Profile, Research) NBC Universal release movies in HD DVD format.

Warner said it would continue releasing in the HD DVD format until the end of May, although those releases would follow the standard DVD and Blu-ray releases.
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That makes sense and the direction that a consumer like myself is happy to see.

This is great news!
 
Pako
That makes sense and the direction that a consumer like myself is happy to see.

This is great news!
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Another B-Day present for you right there ;-)

And I second that notion.. Not that I'm anti MS or anything, but it does tingle the old open source ticker a little bit !..
 
I personally don't care one bit about HD formats (at least until Star Wars gets on Blu-ray), but this really does seem like the final, crushing blow to HD-DVD.

There's a decent chance MS is going to announce an HD-DVD built-in X360 at CES – if true, that will be the funniest thing to happen this year.
 
EWillis
I personally don't care one bit about HD formats (at least until Star Wars gets on Blu-ray), but this really does seem like the final, crushing blow to HD-DVD.

There's a decent chance MS is going to announce an HD-DVD built-in X360 at CES – if true, that will be the funniest thing to happen this year.
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I bet there's some suits at MS pulling more than a few hairs ATM.... :-) And yes, that WILL be the funniest thing to happen in 2008 !....
 
Flerbizky
Another B-Day present for you right there ;-)

And I second that notion.. Not that I'm anti MS or anything, but it does tingle the old open source ticker a little bit !..
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And a GREAT B-day present I must add.👍
 
Woohoo :)
That's really good news.

There is a bargain with Toshiba LCD-TV's at my local seller. If you buy a TV you'll get an HD-DVD Player and 5 Movies for just a little extra charge. But now, I'll buy the TV without HD-DVD :)
 
According to the owner of Home Theater Forum who was supposedly an insider on this transaction, Warner was given $620,000,000 in cash and/or incentives to go BD exclusive. In comparison, MS was rumored to give them $500,000,000 including a digital distribution clause.

EDIT: Just in case someone wasn't aware, this deal includes New Line as well since, y'know, Warner owns them.

EDIT2: lolz

Warner: No Payoff for Move to Blu-ray
 

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