BMW 8 Series Return

[MatskiMonk]

Is Gran Coupe their way of saying "Not a wagon/SUV...but a Wagon/SUV"?

No, it's more their way of saying "4 door Coupe".

Why does BMW make Gran Coupe models anyway?

Because people were going to BMW's peers and competitors in order to buy such vehicles.

I mean, they had the odd numbered BMWs for sedans and the even numbered for the coupe versions.

Generally, the last time this was true was about 1990. It got talked about again with the introduction of the 2-er and 4-er nameplates, but practically speaking odd Coupes and even 4+ door cars have co-existed in the range for a long time.

So, then they make a 4-door version of a coupe when they already had a 4-door version? It doesn't make sense to me.

If, in your eyes, a 6 series Gran Coupe is the same proposition as a 5 series Saloon and a 4 series Gran Coupe is the same proposition as a 3 series Saloon, then I can understand why it wouldn't make sense to you.

 

[Wolfe]

Nothing was stopping BMW from doing something sensible like making the 2-series the "four door coupe" version of the 3-series and the 4-series the "four door coupe" version of the 5/6-series. New numbers to designate and call attention to the new bodystyle, original model range left intact, and it skips the four-door-version-of-a-two-door-version-of-a-four-door-car thing.

Nobody cares about BMW's explanation for chopping up and rearranging their models the way they did; I'm sure the customers actually buying the cars don't care. Which makes it all the more pointless to have shaken up the model range under the guise of some kind of "logic".

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Generally, the last time this was true was about 1990. It got talked about again with the introduction of the 2-er and 4-er nameplates, but practically speaking odd Coupes and even 4+ door cars have co-existed in the range for a long time.

Uh, what are you talking about? I'm just talking about how BMW is naming their vehicles now.

If, in your eyes, a 6 series Gran Coupe is the same proposition as a 5 series Saloon and a 4 series Gran Coupe is the same proposition as a 3 series Saloon, then I can understand why it wouldn't make sense to you.

Well, yes. It just sounds like they made car types that already exists in their line.

 

[Castrol96]

Just over a year ago, I asked BMW (Instagram) whether they'll be making a new 8 series. they replied we might but it is a secret.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Uh, what are you talking about? I'm just talking about how BMW is naming their vehicles now.

It's not how they name their vehicles now, and it hasn't been how they've named their vehicles for nigh on 30 years. If you really need a "rule" with regards to BMW's numbering strategy just think of it like this... "All BMW's coupes have even numbers, but not all even numbered BMW's are coupes". Simples.

Well, yes. It just sounds like they made car types that already exists in their line.

And to me this sounds like you've got your opinion from other people without actually looking at the two cars in question.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

It's not how they name their vehicles now, and it hasn't been how they've named their vehicles for nigh on 30 years.

Oh really, you're sure about it? Lets see, the 1-series is a 4-door (or 5-door) hatchback, 2-series is a coupe, the 3-series is a 4-door sedan, the 4-series is a coupe, the 5-series is a 4-door sedan, the 6-series is a coupe, the 7-series is a 4-door sedan, and the new 8-series being shown is...oh right a coupe! You don't see the pattern there?

If you really need a "rule" with regards to BMW's numbering strategy just think of it like this... "All BMW's coupes have even numbers, but not all even numbered BMW's are coupes". Simples.

I don't need a rule, I'm simply making observations based on the models presented.

And to me this sounds like you've got your opinion from other people without actually looking at the two cars in question.

Except I didn't, I got my opinion from looking at the cars themselves.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I don't need a rule, I'm simply making observations based on the models presented.

Shhh. In case you hadn't noticed, that sort of logic isn't desired 'round these parts.

While numerous media outlets reported BMW itself was using the even numbers for the two-door versions of the car lineup — and BMW never seemed to correct this — you could argue that the even-number-four-door thing kicked off with the X6.

Some folks argue that the even numbers are now reserved for the sportier/more aspirational models. This reasoning gets kicked to the curb as soon as you look at this thing:

...and this is all before we get into the utter cluster-bomb that is the other two numerals in a modern BMW's model designation.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Shhh. In case you hadn't noticed, that sort of logic isn't desired 'round these parts.

Whoops, silly me; I'll watch my mouth now.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Oh really, you're sure about it? Lets see, the 1-series is a 4-door (or 5-door) hatchback, 2-series is a coupe, the 3-series is a 4-door sedan, the 4-series is a coupe, the 5-series is a 4-door sedan, the 6-series is a coupe, the 7-series is a 4-door sedan, and the new 8-series being shown is...oh right a coupe! You don't see the pattern there?

Nope, I don't, and I'm quite sure.

The 1-series is a 3 door or 5dr Hatchback and a 4 door saloon.
The 2-series is a 2 door Coupe, a Convertible, a 5 door Hatchback, and a 5 door 7 seat MPV.
The 3-series is a 4 door saloon, a long wheelbase 4 door saloon, a 5 door touring and a 5 door long wheelbase "liftback" style hatchback.
The 4-series is a 2 door Coupe, a Convertible, and a 5 door "liftback" style Hatchback.
The 5-series is a 4 door saloon, a long wheelbase 4 door saloon, and is/was a 5 door long wheebase Hatchback.
The outgoing 6-series is a 2 door Coupe, a 4 door Coupe and a Convertible.
The incoming 6-series is a 5 door "liftback" style Hatchback
The 7-series is a 4 door Saloon, and a long wheelbase 4 door saloon.
The 8-series will be a 2 door Coupe and Convertible, and is expected to be (baring introduction of 9-series name) a 4 door Coupe

Pattern?

I don't need a rule, I'm simply making observations based on the models presented.

Then you're doing a terrible job

Except I didn't, I got my opinion from looking at the cars themselves.

Like I said then, if you see them as the same things, I can see why you can't make sense of it.

 

[Vegard]

Do you have to have some special kind of OCD in order to have a problem with BMW's nomenclature or is there something wrong with offering a wide variet of body shapes and sizes?

 

[Wolfe]

Which models are available as a coupe or convertible, and which ones aren't? Which models are available as a conventional saloon, and which ones aren't?

The 1-series is a 3 door or 5dr Hatchback and a 4 door saloon.
The 2-series is a 2 door Coupe, a Convertible...
The 3-series is a 4 door saloon, a long wheelbase 4 door saloon...
The 4-series is a 2 door Coupe, a Convertible...
The 5-series is a 4 door saloon, a long wheelbase 4 door saloon...
The outgoing 6-series is a 2 door Coupe...and a Convertible.
The 7-series is a 4 door Saloon, and a long wheelbase 4 door saloon.
The 8-series will be a 2 door Coupe and Convertible...

Pattern?

💡

 

[MatskiMonk]

Which models are available as a coupe or convertible, and which ones aren't? Which models are available as a conventional saloon, and which ones aren't?

Can't fault your logic there, but it doesn't really affect RandomCarGuy's statement that I was responding to. It requires you to understand there is a difference between a "conventional" saloon, and a Gran Coupe - which he, and many others, don't seem able to see - in their eyes, owing to this 4 door 2 door 4 door crap, the 6 series is available as a conventional saloon, and so is the 4-er, therefore your pattern, wouldn't be a pattern.

So, I still think my phrasing was more eloquent and accurate...

All BMW's coupes have even numbers, but not all even numbered BMW's are coupes

None of which changes anything though, there isn't really a rule, there wasn't supposed to be, and there hasn't been for sometime... if people just accepted BMW's naming as they would that of virtually every other manufacturer, it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

The 1-series is a 3 door or 5dr Hatchback and a 4 door saloon.
The 2-series is a 2 door Coupe, a Convertible, a 5 door Hatchback, and a 5 door 7 seat MPV.
The 3-series is a 4 door saloon, a long wheelbase 4 door saloon, a 5 door touring and a 5 door long wheelbase "liftback" style hatchback.
The 4-series is a 2 door Coupe, a Convertible, and a 5 door "liftback" style Hatchback.
The 5-series is a 4 door saloon, a long wheelbase 4 door saloon, and is/was a 5 door long wheebase Hatchback.
The outgoing 6-series is a 2 door Coupe, a 4 door Coupe and a Convertible.
The incoming 6-series is a 5 door "liftback" style Hatchback
The 7-series is a 4 door Saloon, and a long wheelbase 4 door saloon.
The 8-series will be a 2 door Coupe and Convertible, and is expected to be (baring introduction of 9-series name) a 4 door Coupe

Pattern?

Okay, my apologies then.

Do you have to have some special kind of OCD in order to have a problem with BMW's nomenclature or is there something wrong with offering a wide variet of body shapes and sizes?

If you're referring to me, I don't have a problem with the naming strategy. I just was wondering why BMW would make a 4-door version of the 4 & 6 series when the 3 and 5 series exist.

It requires you to understand there is a difference between a "conventional" saloon, and a Gran Coupe - which he, and many others, don't seem able to see

Well, what's the difference then?

 

[Vegard]

If you're referring to me, I don't have a problem with the naming strategy. I just was wondering why BMW would make a 4-door version of the 4 & 6 series when the 3 and 5 series exist.

I wasn't referring to anyone in particular.

To answer your question, because a four door version of the 4 series isn't a 3 series and a 4 door version of the 6 series isn't a 5 series.

 

[Dennisch]

The vote is unanimous after this discussion. Henceforth all BMW's shall be Seriously Uncool.

 

[VXR]

It all went to pot when a 2-series can be a RWD coupe or a 7-seat FWD minivan. That's illogical.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Well, what's the difference then?

Dunno, I was just being facetious, Wolfe was the one that decided Gran Coupes were not "conventional" saloons....

Spoiler: Ahhh okay, I'll bite...

The 6 series Gran Coupe is longer, lower, wider, and arguably better looking than the 5-er saloon. It has different/better/less engine options, it is more expensive, it is subjectively a different driving experience. It is far less common than a 5 series. It is arguably better looking than the 5-er. It offers less practicality than a 5-er saloon in terms of passenger space and luggage capacity.... also did I mention that it was arguably better looking than the 5-er? At the end of the day, this segment as defined by the CLS is all about the style and perception of the vehicle - whether or not you do actually prefer the GC styling to the 5-er, it's very obvious that they are on different levels looks wise... and unless you believe people do not factor aesthetics into their car buying decisions (or a sense of exclusivity for that matter), that alone should be enough of a difference.

Top Gear Magazine summed it up quite well...

"BMW has many different types of high-end car, but there is one sector that has eluded it – the four-door coupe market that Mercedes has had sewn up with the CLS since 2004. Finally though, those for whom the 5-Series is not stylish enough and the 7-Series is too dour have a sleek new option from BMW: the four-door, five-seat 6-Series Gran Coupe.

It’s a very stylish car, BMW choosing to go for pretty elegance rather than at first wilfully odd (Audi A7 Sportback), uglier-than-the-first- one (CLS MkII) or just plain ugly (Porsche Panamera). Of the storming engine range, the 313bhp 640d has most on-paper appeal, although the allure of the storming M6 Gran Coupe can’t be denied. A more genuine M car than the new M5? Discuss: whatever, it’s a great halo for the range"

The 4 series Gran Coupe differs most obviously from the 3-er saloon in it's sloping rear hatch and lift back tailgate - it's basically not a 4 door version of anything - it's a 5 door, and therefore not equal to the 3-er saloon. It also has the front and rear styling from the coupe, which the saloon does not. It's closer in purpose perhaps to the 3 series GT, however it can't match the 3GT (which is based on the LWB 3-er Saloon) for interior space or luggage capacity - in these areas the 3GT beats every other variant of the 3 series or 4 series - though many buyers and fans prefer the looks of the 4GC. As with the 6GC, the 4GC is more expensive than a 3-er, and is less likely to be seen on the roads (i.e. less "common") than a 3-er saloon.

Again, Top Gear Magazine recently summed it up quite well...

"But this is a five-door version of a two-door version of a four-door. You’re supposed to say it’s all niche and no trousers…

Agreed. This should be as confused and unsatisfying an X4, on paper. Yet convoluted as the 4-Series Gran Coupe’s ancestry is, sometimes the result is a Goldilocks car. Almost all of this applies to the sensible 420d too, but as a car for all occasions, a GC fitted out the 435d heart is a one of those rare, quietly special ‘what more could you want?’ sort of cars. Possibly, it’s the best car BMW makes right now."

... anyhow... less than a week now until the design study for the 8-er is shown.

 

[Wolfe]

Can't fault your logic there, but it doesn't really affect RandomCarGuy's statement that I was responding to. It requires you to understand there is a difference between a "conventional" saloon, and a Gran Coupe - which he, and many others, don't seem able to see - in their eyes, owing to this 4 door 2 door 4 door crap, the 6 series is available as a conventional saloon, and so is the 4-er, therefore your pattern, wouldn't be a pattern.

It's no less absurd. Coupes and convertibles -- cars with two doors -- were shifted to even numbers for no other reason but that they are coupes and convertibles. So BMW apparently decided that an odd-numbered model cannot have only two doors -- so adamantly that they shamelessly "renamed" the M3, which is a goofy thing to change even if it's arbitrary, especially for a company that constantly touts its history.

It's perfectly natural to infer from this that even-numbered models shouldn't have four doors, even if they're "four door coupes", because otherwise what was the point of upending the lineup to pull two-door bodystyles out of the 1- and 3-series? I know, you don't need to tell me, there wasn't really a point. Which is why it's dumb.

Then sprinkle some hatchbacks around, fill some niches, and name an MPV after your compact RWD coupe/convertible, and you've completed a recipe for mockery. See, it's not that people really care about the logic of BMW's lineup, it's that you care so much about people making fun of it.

 

[zed300]

The 8 looks quite bland, not at all the statement that the 80's version beholds.

 

[lxmmy]

The 8 looks quite bland, not at all the statement that the 80's version beholds.

I'm guessing BMW have given you an exclusive look at the car or have you created a time machine into the future?

 

[TS050]

The 8 looks quite bland, not at all the statement that the 80's version beholds.

whoa I didn't know time machines were a thing

 

[zed300]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/bmw-8-series-return.355801/#post-11812731

You don't think this is it?

 

[lxmmy]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/bmw-8-series-return.355801/#post-11812731

You don't think this is it?

Again, have you seen what the car exactly looks like? That's the ultimate question.

Example;

2 series 'spy shot':

Compared to the actual car.....:

 

[zed300]

Roof line...identical
Bonnet line...identical
Belt line...identical
Window frame ...identical
headlight...identical
Sill lines....identical
Body lines...a bit hard to tell...that's the purpose of the camo.

Nose is the only major change, and they'll have 4-5 version to choose from anyway.

My belief is still the same, the 8 will look bland.
BMW used to start an innovative look with their top of the line 7 series. By the time a new 3 was in production, 10 years later, that series ran with similar lines that the "old" 7 presented as "innovative, outlandish" whatever.

This "spy shot" looks like a standard BMW from the last 10 years......BLAND.

 

[lxmmy]

Roof line...identical
Bonnet line...identical
Belt line...identical
Window frame ...identical
headlight...identical
Sill lines....identical
Body lines...a bit hard to tell...that's the purpose of the camo.

So the answer to my question is no. Also, how do you know this sort of criteria will apply to the new 8 series? ....And I guess you can't answer that, so I would say reserve your ignorant judgement until it is fully released.

BMW used to start an innovative look with their top of the line 7 series. By the time a new 3 was in production, 10 years later, that series ran with similar lines that the "old" 7 presented as "innovative, outlandish" whatever.

Which 'old' 7 series are you talking about?

 

[zed300]

No... I don't "know."

I am only saying, that what I see is potentially a bland looking car, for what possibly might be an 8 series body....ok.

 

[MatskiMonk]

See, it's not that people really care about the logic of BMW's lineup

Oh I know there's people that don't care, they're the ones who aren't posting paragraphs and paragraphs about how they have more sensible ideas, how absurd it is now, how shameless it is, how dumb it is...

it's that you care so much about people making fun of it.

I realise you're trying to imply some kind of butt-hurt here, but honestly - whilst you'll keep protesting you don't care - I don't mind admitting that the subject of how BMW develop, brand and market their vehicles is something I have an interest in, so if you're trying to make me feel bad for having a different point of view, or wanting to talk about the subject, it's unlikely to work.

See, it's not that people really care about the logic of BMW's lineup, it's that you care so much about people making fun of it

Actually, while I think of it, what is "it" anyway?

 

[Wolfe]

Oh I know there's people that don't care, they're the ones who aren't posting paragraphs and paragraphs about how they have more sensible ideas, how absurd it is now, how shameless it is, how dumb it is...

I realize you're trying to imply some kind of butt-hurt here, but honestly -- while you'll keep protesting that people care too much about the "logic" of BMW's model lineup whenever someone cracks a joke at their expense -- I don't mind admitting that BMW can do whatever they want, so if you're trying to make it out like I'm emotionally invested in how they plan their products, it's unlikely to work.

I mean, there's no obligation to care deeply about absolutely everything one considers absurd or foolish. It wouldn't be healthy to do so.

...the subject of how BMW develop, brand and market their vehicles is something I have an interest in, so if you're trying to make me feel bad for having a different point of view, or wanting to talk about the subject...

As a former owner of an E30 and a fanboy of classic BMWs, I also have some interest in the subject of how BMW develop, brand, and market their vehicles.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad for anything. You're welcome to share a different point of view, and I'm welcome to defend and clarify the opposing point of view, which you called "nonsensical" and based upon a "terrible" sense of observation...in as many paragraphs as I care to post (all six of them).

Actually, while I think of it, what is "it" anyway?

That a thread about the upcoming 8-series became another discussion about the Gran Coupe models, the perception of four-door-version-of-a-two-door-version-of-a-four-door-car, the 2-series Active Tourer, etc.

I'm not saying you shouldn't or cannot care, but I disagree with your implication that other people care too much.

 

[Tornado]

"Overly sensitive BMW fan now arguing with multiple people about BMW naming conventions. Claims other people are the only ones who care too much about BMW's naming conventions."




We probably just need more actual life perspective.

 

[RocZX]