BMW M League anyone interested???

[cjs959]

SIGN UPS OPEN
Theres a fair amount of interest here and I would like to get a "formal" sign up started so I can easily see how many people are going to be participating in this league. I would like to see a minimum of 6-8 of us signed up before we start the series, I will keep sign ups open until the league is full (or if interest really spikes, have different groups). Until we have enough people signed up to officially kick things off we can meet up for "club" style events. Please copy and paste the following sign up (include which car you will be driving) to keep it all up to date on one post. Oh and use your PSN please (if it varies from your GTP name). Thanks.

I would like to start up a league featuring BMW M cars like the title states. I would just like to gauge interest and here some opinions and ideas as to performance restrictions, and series format.
I was thinking of allowing any and all M cars (road cars) new and old. The tuning will have to be regulated to keep racing fair. I'm open to any suggestions really, i just want fair fun racing in a BMW M something (the ultimate driving machine). I'm not sure about series length or race length, i would like to see about a one hour race (long enough to have to pit and strategize, but short enough so it doesn't take up all of our free time). I would like the series to run 4-8 races and feature mostly real tracks (Laguna, Daytona road course, Nurburgring, La sarthe, exc..)I'm open to any input on the structure, the above is just a run down of what i would like but any input or ideas would be great. If your interested and/or have any input just post a reply (this initial thread is to gauge interest, once i know there is good interest we can get into more detail about the structure and get a sign up started).
Thanks
1) CJS158 Car: TBD
2) DiegoC1980 Car: TBD
3) GrahamTurismo Car: E46 "Something"
4) Bimmerboy96 Car: TBD
5) nastradamus87 Car: TBD
6) redcouch1 Car:TBD
7) hamster1984 Car: Z4M
8) Krizzay Car:TBD
9) GTP_Egghead Car: The Slowest One
10) sach22 Car: TBD
11) Counter_Steer Car: Z4 M
12) GrayFox32 Car: M3 Coupe '07
13) chorda Car: CSL or GTR
14) ssyd780 Car: CSL
15) brandofo Car: TBD
16) Evolution_GT Car: TBD

BMW M series proposed points and rules

There will be a total of 84 points available per race. (based on twelve entries)


1st 15pts
2nd 14pts
3rd 13pts
4th 11pts
5th 9pts
6th 7pts
7th 5pts
8th 4pts
9th 3pts
10th 2pts
11th 1pts
12th none

Proposed series rules

1) Must use same car for all races
2) Must be at/under PP (or other restrictions) limit
3) Must adhere to tire restrictions
4) CLEAN driving as defined by GTP OLR Rules & Guidelines

These are the basics, there may be more rules as we get the structure of this series dialed in.

Lobby Settings
1) Heavy Damage
2) No penalties (penalties will be enforced threw points reduction/DQ)
3) Real grip reduction
4) Only driving aides allowed are TCS and ABS

Poll results...(this is for quick reference)
Poll 1
How should we restrict/balance car performance?
A) General PP limit- 9 votes
B) Individual PP limit- 5 votes
C) Combined PP limit w/ a hp/w spec- 2 votes

For the voting thread click the link below.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5014520#post5014520

 

[HaylRayzor]

Don't forget the Z4-M.

As long as you choose a PP that is within the tuning range of all the eligible cars you're fine.

As to mods, it's hard to limit mods since there is really no way to know what mods a car has (that I know of).

 

[GrahamTurismo]

I'm interested, but I thinking turning road cars into near race cars is a bit overkill.

I personally want to enjoy the ultimate driving machine as BMW created it, and a 500hp M3 would ruin that experience.

 

[cjs959]

Yup the Z4 M would be included i just didn't list it. If we went the way of allowing all the different M cars then yes the PP would be restricted to keep it fair.

 

[cjs959]

I'm interested, but I thinking turning road cars into near race cars is a bit overkill.

I personally want to enjoy the ultimate driving machine as BMW created it, and a 500hp M3 would ruin that experience.

Thats cool, i'm just trying to get interest in this league and hear from everyone what they would like to see so keep giving me input. I would like to see the cars set up in some way for the track though rather than just bone stock (and if there are different cars some cars will have to be tuned up to even the field). When enough interest is built up for the series I will have a voting system for many of the details on cars, PP restrictions, track selection and so forth...

 

[Denilson]

I'm really liking this idea 👍
As you might see when looking at my profile pic

I just want to say that it's not possible to use the same PP for all cars. The PP system is not accurate enough for that.

What we should do is to test all M's, and when we have a result for the max PP for each model, we can simply set the lowest PP first. And then all cars that are supposed to run within that limit enters the track, then just raise the PP to the next level and so on. It works great in WSGTC.

As for mods, I don't think we should mod to much and keep the tyres to SH or SM.
Just mod the cars to an equal level.

No aids like SRF, ASM, active steering.. DSC and ABS is ok if you ask me.

How about damage and grip reduction?

 

[cjs959]

I'm really liking this idea 👍
As you might see when looking at my profile pic

I just want to say that it's not possible to use the same PP for all cars. The PP system is not accurate enough for that.

What we should do is to test all M's, and when we have a result for the max PP for each model, we can simply set the lowest PP first. And then all cars that are supposed to run within that limit enters the track, then just raise the PP to the next level and so on. It works great in WSGTC.

As for mods, I don't think we should mod to much and keep the tyres to SH or SM.
Just mod the cars to an equal level.

No aids like SRF, ASM, active steering.. DSC and ABS is ok if you ask me.

How about damage and grip reduction?

I'll leave the amount of mods up in the air (like i said earlier, will vote to detemine many of the details of the league).

As far as driving aids i agree completely with your suggestion... no SRF, ASM, or active steering.

 

[cjs959]

I would like real grip reduction, as far as damage yes i would like damage but not sure what level of damage.

 

[Denilson]

I would like real grip reduction, as far as damage yes i would like damage but not sure what level of damage.

👍

btw, I like heavy damage.. Forces drivers to stay clean.

 

[Grimlock213]

Alright there. Put me down for this. I can only really do saturday nights from 11pm. I should also be able to enlist another 3 people into joining .

 

[GrahamTurismo]

👍

btw, I like heavy damage.. Forces drivers to stay clean.

Heavy damage will also ruin your entire race when someone misjudges their brake zone behind you. Why should you be punished for someone else's lack of skill? Even if we were to eliminate everyone with a sub-par skill level there is still lag to deal with; heavy damage will always be a big risk with online racing.

 

[Egghead43]

I'd be interested if it's on sport tires and the PP limit isn't too far beyond the highest stock PP of the eligible cars.
The PP limit should be there to even the cars out, not achieve the highest possible.
Anyways, my 2¢

 

[redcouch1212]

I'm interested.

The length of the series shouldnt be too long. I'd aim for like a month in a half to two months(so say 6 races), that way the amount of people who could lose interest after the first few races wont be as temped to leave. Not to mention the initial amount of people who say they are interested and dont show up.

As far as tuning, first of all we should limit the amount of M cars to participate to say 3 or 4. Controling the weight and power of the cars should be carefully limited to bring the performance of each car about equal. At that point letting everything else fly(with a tire rule of course) the racing could be pretty close.

 

[redcouch1212]

Heavy damage will also ruin your entire race when someone misjudges their brake zone behind you. Why should you be punished for someone else's lack of skill? Even if we were to eliminate everyone with a sub-par skill level there is still lag to deal with; heavy damage will always be a big risk with online racing.

Isnt that called racing?

 

[GrahamTurismo]

Isnt that called racing?

Yes, but in real racing most people are patient enough to know that the race can't be won in T1 but it can easily be lost.
In GT5 online, people are too anxious and make mistakes that real racers don't make, due to the low risk in comparison to reality.

Your defense is the approach generally taken by the kind of people who miss their brake zones a lot.
If this is you, then maybe you should look for a series aimed at newer drivers so you can race people closer to your skill level.
If you are good with braking zones, maybe you should still race with a bunch of new drivers so you can experience losing the entire race in T1.

 

[redcouch1212]

Yes, but in real racing most people are patient enough to know that the race can't be won in T1 but it can easily be lost.
In GT5 online, people are too anxious and make mistakes that real racers don't make, due to the low risk in comparison to reality.

Your defense is the approach generally taken by the kind of people who miss their brake zones a lot.
If this is you, then maybe you should look for a series aimed at newer drivers so you can race people closer to your skill level.
If you are good with braking zones, maybe you should still race with a bunch of new drivers so you can experience losing the entire race in T1.

Haha, you mad?

Relax kid, you shouldnt worry about things like that because the type of people you have a problem with most likely wont show up to the first race. Most of the time you get alot of people signed up to these racing leagues and a small amount of them show; I'm sure they are just as serious as you claim to be. If theres enough arguement against damage I'm sure it will be ruled out, but I am all for it.

 

[Denilson]

Heavy damage will also ruin your entire race when someone misjudges their brake zone behind you. Why should you be punished for someone else's lack of skill? Even if we were to eliminate everyone with a sub-par skill level there is still lag to deal with; heavy damage will always be a big risk with online racing.

That's your opinion, I have mine.. 👍

 

[GrahamTurismo]

Haha, you mad?

Nope. Unless I get raped in T1, then yes. Relax kid.

That's your opinion, I have mine.. 👍

Oh, I'm all for the highest level of realism. And as long as that include practice races to determine who isn't fit to handle their chosen car to eliminate the risk of rammers, then I say lets go with heavy.

 

[GTsach]

I'm in for this one If u get it up and going
PSN: sach22

 

[cjs959]

Alright i think theres enough interest to get something started... at least meeting up to do some practice and testing sessions to get things dialed in between the different cars. If your interested and have been paying attention to this thread just post your PSN's, I'll add everyone and we can find some time were we all can get on some tracks to figure out how to balance the cars and which cars we chose to run.
I like everyone's feedback and like i stated i will allow pretty much any detail to be voted on. My main concerns are to have the different cars as well balanced as possible. I personally would like to see all of the new M's found in the new car delearship to be invovled (M3, M5, Z4M) and maybe include the road version of the M3gtr. I'm ready to get something started, the only days im not free are monday and tuesday... all other days i would be free after work in the evenings.
PSN CJS158

 

[Denilson]

I defenetly think you atleast should add the CSL as well... My choice 👍

And also the Z3M.. It's a great car, and will also make the grid more diverse.

 

[cjs959]

I defenetly think you atleast should add the CSL as well... My choice 👍

And also the Z3M.. It's a great car, and will also make the grid more diverse.

Ya i agree the more variety the better, i just feel it might be tough to balance all of the cars (mainly the difference between last generation with the inline six to the new gens with v-8's). I want the cars to be as balanced as possible but still offer up the unique personalities. I just did a little off-line testing between the new M3, M5, and Z4M and found that in order to balnce them out there will have to be some moding and tuning. I didn't spend a lot of time testing and tuning but just useing the M5 as the bench mark i found that some HP and weight changes are needed to balance them. I went and got a brand new M5,M3, and Z4M and just gave em all oil changes. Bone stock i ran them all around Susuka East (wanted to keep to short easy laps to stay as consistant as possible). With all aids off, real traction reduction, Traction control at 5 (just for a base), and ABS at 1 (again for a base). My quickest lap was in the M5 (59:3XX), next was the M3 (1:00:6XX), and in the Z4M i turned a 101:6XX. These numbers may appear pretty close but they really aren't. A full second difference between all three cars. Now i don't consider my self a GT pro (would say good or above average). But those lap times were all my quickest and cleanest in each car (and in both the M3 and Z4m i was pushing harder to try to catch my time in the M5).

 

[Denilson]

Ok, but 2-3 seconds is easy to improve with a little bit of tuning.

A tip: If you test the cars without the fully adjustable suspention, it's much easier to compare the results of the engine tuning, since the default tuning to the adjustable suspention is different for each car as far as handling goes (when default).

The earlier (standard) models also carry a lot less weight, making the task to make all cars equal much easier dispite the different engine volumes and cylinders.

 

[cjs959]

Like I said in my above post. All three cars were stock, on sports hard tires and had oil changes. Ya I do agree that tuning really wouldn't be that hard, we would have to keep the up/weight ratio pretty similar. I tried tuning up both the Z4m and the M3 to the PP of the M5 (510), haven't tested it yet but I don't think it's going to be the right way to go.

 

[cjs959]

"up/weight ratio"
HP/weight ratio

 

[Talon]

I've been very pleased with the PP system so far, and I believe if we all have the same PP, the racing will be very close with the draft involved.

And the M3 '04 and the CSL are great cars, there's no reason at all not to include them. If they're not allowed, I won't be there.

As far as setting a PP, I think maybe making the limit a bit above the car with the highest stock rating, so the cars stay relatively factory but still balanced. 👍

 

[cjs959]

Ya the cars that will be allowed aren't set in stone, i just thought it would be a little easier if we only had the newer cars. We can vote on all of the cars allowed or i wouldn't mind just letting anyone and everyone choosing whatever car they would like and then from there we have practice/test sessions to balance the cars. Through the testing we can find the best way to even the field and set different set up restrictions for all the cars based on what we feel fits best.

well leave your PSN and lets get the ball rolling...

 

[Denilson]

PSN: chorda

 

[Talon]

Counter_Steer

 

[Egghead43]

I've been very pleased with the PP system so far, and I believe if we all have the same PP, the racing will be very close with the draft involved.

^Agreed 👍

The PP based rooms that I've joined with Talon at the Nürburgring recently have been epic close battles between many different types of cars. Some modded up to the PP limit, some detuned to meet the limit.

Add me for this one: GTP_Egghead